DLP,
I have been through this a couple of times with a team where people have left, and where friends have decided to leave. I would say if you had paid the entire $3000, you would have been entitled to some level of refund, which I expect the coach mean by "We'll work it out.". However, you just made the first payment which typically has to immediately go to pay for pre-season expenses (i.e. insurance, field time, equipment, etc). The budget is set up based on X number of players.
We ran into an issue last year where some left and did not pay, and the parents who had paid their full amount, had to pony up extra at the end of the season to cover the final few entry fees. How fair was that to those families?
I realize this is frustrating for you, and others on here have come down on you pretty hard, but unfortunately by leaving does not always reduce the team expense by the amount you have paid nor can you always pick up someone later in the year and expect them to pay a full season's cost.
Good luck to your son with the new team. It sounds like he will like it better.
Unfortunately you have just paid the team hopping tax.
I believe DLP came to the site looking for a little sympathy along with some advice only to be surprised that not everyone was sympathetic. This place, however, is what it is because of the variety of strong, informed opinions. If you don't want to hear what people have to say, then don't ask. Baseball people tend to be pretty direct, especially the folks who have been there, done that. That said, I tend to agree with those who say she should get the money back simply because the coach has plenty of time to find a comparable player. But that's up to the coach's discretion, and she has to be ready to live with it since she made the choice to leave. I tend to view people who charge three grand for a summer program with a great deal of skepticism unless they've got an excellent record for helping place players at top-level programs.
quote:Originally posted by catfish342:
I believe DLP came to the site looking for a little sympathy along with some advice only to be surprised that not everyone was sympathetic. This place, however, is what it is because of the variety of strong, informed opinions. If you don't want to hear what people have to say, then don't ask. Baseball people tend to be pretty direct, especially the folks who have been there, done that.
Where's Woody when you need a graphic a nail being hit on the head?
We tend to forget that honesty is a sign of respect.
People here care enough to tell others the truth, even when it's not what they want to hear. Been on both sides of that equation, and I'm a better, more enlightened, person for it.
That being said, I've always seemed more comfortable giving good advice, than receiving it.
...but I'm workin' on it. 
quote:Originally posted by DLP:
TPM - I need to make this clear, $3000 total. I only paid $600 so far (only...) Yes, I'm sure that the 2009 coach has his side of the story. But truly, not much to tell. Honestly, I think my son was his best player and he really didn't want to lose him. 2009 coach told me that he was building this team around my son. To give the 2009 coach the benefit of the doubt, I think he really liked my son a lot and he is taking this very personally. When he shouldn't. I have told him endlessly that I think he is a great coach and he has taught my son a lot. Bottom line, this other team is just a better fit, that's all, nothing more, nothing less. Any way...he should just be reasonable and do thing my way...jk.
Playfair - I think you are right! The texting is bothering me more than my son. If my son new I was here, he probably wouldn't tell me anything anymore.
Thank you all for your comments. Kind looks like I'm just out $600. Unless I take him to small claims...God I just don't want to go there.
DLP,
Ok, I thought that you laid out 3K, I understand and I do agree with some that in all fairness, he does not have to return your "deposit". Though if he found a replacement, I can understand, but then again this sets a precedent for all players (not returning deposit). One parent gets wiff of this and then before you know it, everyone wants their money back, is that fair? Why would you consider small claims court? You went back on your agreement, now if he took the money and had no team, then you have a right to go after him.
Don't misunderstand me, but I don't understand some of which you post (and I am a mom too) if the coach was building the team around your son and liked him, why would he want to leave? If he was the best player (in your opinion), why would he want to leave? Is a better fit always better, or just the lure of greener pastures?
There is something that I have learned, over the years, the word baseball and commitment go together, that doesn't just mean the commitment a player makes to his game, but the commitments one makes to others, keep that in mind. Big problem I see these days, is that everyone jumps from team to team because they think it's a better "fit", the object in HS baseball, summer, is to get exposure, and for 3K if he isn't getting that, then I agree, you need to find a better fit, but then you should have considered that before you gave up the 600. JMO.
I don't think that anyone is being mean to you, just not giving you the responses that you want, you asked for suggestions and opinions, so take what you want from the suggestions given. When you join a message board community, you have to understand that all people posting have different personalities, it doesn't make them mean, just a bit more straight forward than others. And I agree F&*$&%^ wasn't necessary. I also don't get the comment about your son paying you back for all you have spent, we ALL have spent money on our kids, and I never once asked for any of it back, I just don't get that. Never once did we ASK for anything back, though we did ask son to contribute (he worked) and if HE decided he wanted to go play for another team (which he never did because of commitment) and I were to lose that, HE would be out the 600, not us. That is something that should have been discussed before any decisions were made, so why are you mad at the coach, your son decided to make the change?
Some good serious advice given here, listen carefully, baseball is a VERY small world, and it gets smaller as your son becomes older.
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:
CPLZ:
Interesting conclusion. I just don't see it.
By the way, I also think $3,000 is way, way too much for summer baseball. Somebody is making a lot of money or not managing the finances very well.
In the summer of 2003, we paid about 3K for son to play on a well known summer team. The money included but not limited to, plane fare, buses, all tourney fees, umpire and field fees, hotels, uniforms, meals on the road and meals and drinks in between double headers. The team traveled as far as west as Omaha, farthest north to Atlanta, and through the entire state of FL, this was a 68 game schedule. This also included a trip to Memphis, for the Connie Mack regionals. The results were for son, a very nice scholarship to a very good school with a very good baseball program. Worth every penny, IMO. I was told each actual player cost about 5K, but he raised funds to make up the difference or took it out of his pocket.
Yup, 3K is a lot, I would ask and consider before my son made a commitment, exactly what the 3K will get you.
Excellent Post TPM,
DLP would surely look at it differently if the coach had given DLP her deposit back because another player the coach thought was better then her son wanted to be on the team and her son was told by the coach he didn't want him on the team anymore.
Some of the coach on here said they would give the deposit back and I agree, I would give it back if I had a team, but on the other hand, many of the travel teams are one single team and may have to battle with other teams to get the best players and because her son committed to his team he may have lost out on another player that was as good.
TPM, I told my son he had to pay me back $20 he borrowed from me, and he did. Of course I found out later when me wife ask me for some money, that she had given my son $20 because he told her he had to pay someone back. Still waiting for a hot enough day for my son to paste wax my black car for that one!
DLP would surely look at it differently if the coach had given DLP her deposit back because another player the coach thought was better then her son wanted to be on the team and her son was told by the coach he didn't want him on the team anymore.
Some of the coach on here said they would give the deposit back and I agree, I would give it back if I had a team, but on the other hand, many of the travel teams are one single team and may have to battle with other teams to get the best players and because her son committed to his team he may have lost out on another player that was as good.
TPM, I told my son he had to pay me back $20 he borrowed from me, and he did. Of course I found out later when me wife ask me for some money, that she had given my son $20 because he told her he had to pay someone back. Still waiting for a hot enough day for my son to paste wax my black car for that one!
Tooldforthis,
FWIW, mine raised half of the 3K on his own.
Don't get me wrong, not like we didn't have it, but it was his decision to play for that team, he had lots of offers that summer, some for nothing (Midland Redskins), some for less, it was his idea, he took the responsibility for his choice.
I am not into that whatever you want, you get stuff. It has taught him life lessons, it's called responsibility. And, if you make a commitment, you live by it, then move on if it wasn't the right choice and learn from them.
FWIW, mine raised half of the 3K on his own.
Don't get me wrong, not like we didn't have it, but it was his decision to play for that team, he had lots of offers that summer, some for nothing (Midland Redskins), some for less, it was his idea, he took the responsibility for his choice.
I am not into that whatever you want, you get stuff. It has taught him life lessons, it's called responsibility. And, if you make a commitment, you live by it, then move on if it wasn't the right choice and learn from them.
TPM,
I'm not sure what FWIW means, not very good with text terms, sorry.
I agree, my son has a job working on the baseball field every Sunday for an adult league, that money is used for any baseball related items, gloves, bats and part of his summer league team. I've noticed that because he has to pay for some of his items, he really takes better care of them. I've seen players just tear up their equipment and their parents just buy them new stuff. I will buy him a new wood bat if he breaks one, but, if it is abused he does without or buys it himself. I'm glad to here someone else, and I'm sure there is plenty of others on this site, that has their player have a buy in.
I'm not sure what FWIW means, not very good with text terms, sorry.
I agree, my son has a job working on the baseball field every Sunday for an adult league, that money is used for any baseball related items, gloves, bats and part of his summer league team. I've noticed that because he has to pay for some of his items, he really takes better care of them. I've seen players just tear up their equipment and their parents just buy them new stuff. I will buy him a new wood bat if he breaks one, but, if it is abused he does without or buys it himself. I'm glad to here someone else, and I'm sure there is plenty of others on this site, that has their player have a buy in.
For what it is worth (FWIW) I paid for all of my son's BB.
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
Just remember that baseball is a small world. And the longer you play the smaller it gets. Im just saying.
That is a fact. i.e. my son's best friend (college teammate) is Darin Mastroianni's current teammate. None of them ever heard of any of them before college. Those two also had a teammate at the previous level who was a college teammate of TPM's son.
$3K for a first class summer program is reasonable. I paid alot less, (before my travel expenses, which are not cheap) but would have paid more if I needed to.
It is all dollars to donuts once they enroll in college, anyway. Buckle up DLP. It's an expensive ride.....I'm justsayin'
i'm just getting in on page 3 of the post so i apologize if i am repeating anything. why are you putting down a $600 deposit in september or october for the summer of 2010? right now you should be playing fall ball and focusing on showcases. we won't pay a dime for our 2010 season until february and even then the total cost will only be $1500. did your son tell you that he wanted to return to this team? if he did then then he should be told that he is going to honor his commitment, if not, then that is your fault for not discussing the situation with him ahead of time. if you thought there was a chance that a better team would come along and want your son well, that's why you wait to pay your money. oh, and why are you playing for a team that carries 20 on their roster? it would be almost impossible to get $3,000 worth of playing time when there are 20 kids on a roster. JMHO.
In my mind very simple.....but then again I have a very simple mind.
At the time the request for a refund was made there were X number of players on the roster. With your son gone it is X-1. If the roster # goes up to the original # then you should be refunded, if not, you should have to eat the downpayment.
Sorry for the post if this has probably already been said.
At the time the request for a refund was made there were X number of players on the roster. With your son gone it is X-1. If the roster # goes up to the original # then you should be refunded, if not, you should have to eat the downpayment.
Sorry for the post if this has probably already been said.
If several are strictly pitchers it's not an issue. My son's team had nineteen last summer. Playing time was not an issue.quote:it would be almost impossible to get $3,000 worth of playing time when there are 20 kids on a roster
I paid for his fall team at the end of August. I don't pay a deposit for his summer team until January. The balance is due in March.
There's a major academy program in our area that can afford to refund deposits. A friend's son changed his mind after the deposit and switched teams. The academy has players lining up to play for them. They did not return the deposit.
I ran a business for 14 years. We took deposits and we didn't give refunds. We had to lay out thousands of dollars to replace the goods and control our inventory.
Had one lady that we delivered about $6000 worth of goods on New Years eve in Toronto which is 60 miles away. 2 weeks later she brought it all back and dumped it in front of the store. Told me her wedding was off.
No refund.
Had one lady that we delivered about $6000 worth of goods on New Years eve in Toronto which is 60 miles away. 2 weeks later she brought it all back and dumped it in front of the store. Told me her wedding was off.
No refund.
Can I put my uniformed, unrequested, unintelligenct 2 cents in?
If the team has required a $600 down payment after tryouts and I pay it, I have told them that my son has made a commitment to play for them and they have made a commitment to have my son play for them.
If I pull out of OUR commitment, then we are out of the money.
I can understand the guy not wanting to talk to you. You made a commitment and you broke it. I don't know how how big his organization is, but could it be that he turned other kids away to take yours and now he has to go and find a new player. If this isn't his full-time job, that can be alot of work.
Good luck.
If the team has required a $600 down payment after tryouts and I pay it, I have told them that my son has made a commitment to play for them and they have made a commitment to have my son play for them.
If I pull out of OUR commitment, then we are out of the money.
I can understand the guy not wanting to talk to you. You made a commitment and you broke it. I don't know how how big his organization is, but could it be that he turned other kids away to take yours and now he has to go and find a new player. If this isn't his full-time job, that can be alot of work.
Good luck.
I heard from the OP in a pm, I think she understands, and I am sure she appreciates all comments.