snowman
You have not answered my questions
Have you ever fielded balls off a wall?
Have you ever played stoop ball?
Please answer---as for the "boot camp" aspect do not judge unless you know the person you are talking about
Now answer my questions, will you please, even though I think I already know the answers
And Rob it is not a ritual by any means---I just abhor inane questions especially when he cannot respond to mine
Now, now you should be nicer!
Remember - there are no stupid questions, just stupid people!
Remember - there are no stupid questions, just stupid people!
Rob
I am always sweet and lovable---it is how you guys interpret it---snowman needs to respond with answers
The PC "be nice" stuff' don't cut it-- fluff evaporates
I am always sweet and lovable---it is how you guys interpret it---snowman needs to respond with answers
The PC "be nice" stuff' don't cut it-- fluff evaporates
A little common courtesy can go a long way...
"Common courtesy" as you term it includes answering questions when asked without telling me I am off base---the man cannot answer
I am sorry but again the "PC" garbage does not cut it with me and never has, never will---
I am sorry but again the "PC" garbage does not cut it with me and never has, never will---
A very good coach I had once taught me a valuable lesson one season and it is something I've applied both on and off the field. His lesson was "let it go". Got hosed on a call? Let it go. Struck out? Learn from it and let it go. Water under the bridge. Continuing to dwell on it will accomplish nothing constructive and will adversly effect future performance.
I apologize to somervilleboy617 for contributing to this thread going way off course. Nothing positive is being accomplished at this time and I would like to get back to the original and valuable topic of badhops.
It would seem to me that though bouncing a tennis ball off a wall is good practice, preferrably an irregular surface(?), it would be advantagous to catch a ball after it bounces off the ground and the more irregular bounces the better. Does the reaction ball provide this type of training and is it effective? I can see where the wall drill would help outfielders.
I apologize to somervilleboy617 for contributing to this thread going way off course. Nothing positive is being accomplished at this time and I would like to get back to the original and valuable topic of badhops.
It would seem to me that though bouncing a tennis ball off a wall is good practice, preferrably an irregular surface(?), it would be advantagous to catch a ball after it bounces off the ground and the more irregular bounces the better. Does the reaction ball provide this type of training and is it effective? I can see where the wall drill would help outfielders.
A great coach coach and instructor I once had told me to always answer questions if asked--if you cannot answer then say so--
All I did was ask a simple question
By the way a wall normally has mortar joints which can cause a ball to rebound differently with every toss not to mention the joints in the ground pavement it hits---snow man it works great for infielders learning toreact to bad and erratic hops
All I did was ask a simple question
By the way a wall normally has mortar joints which can cause a ball to rebound differently with every toss not to mention the joints in the ground pavement it hits---snow man it works great for infielders learning toreact to bad and erratic hops
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
"Common courtesy" as you term it includes answering questions when asked without telling me I am off base---the man cannot answer
I am sorry but again the "PC" garbage does not cut it with me and never has, never will---
You started the rudeness, not he. You seem to walk around with a chip on your shoulder the size of Mt. McKinley. Doesn't that get a little tiring after a while?
And I guess only a Connecticut yankee would confuse common courtesy with political correctness.
Given the way you came across, I don't blame the poster for ignoring your arrogantly presented demands. Why should he bow & scrape to your whims?
Why the need to so often jump on new posters, tr? This is has happened too often.
We've managed to go a while without crossing swords. But if you continue to needlessly attack new posters, I'm going to continue to call you to account for such.
Texan
First of all I am not a Connecticut Yankee---I am long time NYer who has been in CT for the last 10 years of my 65
Now go back and read how it all started---snowman questioned , in a rather foolish manner the drill I mentioned regarding throwing against the wall---read the responses to his inane answer that came after that and they were not my responses--because I am the only guy around here who doesn't give a darn about hurting feelings I get the wrath of you, the TEXAN as well as snowman---I asked a simple question and he cannot answer--you know what it isnt really worth it-- you talk about my chip, actually there is none, you should look in the mirror--you like , as you say, crossing swords with me but then I use no weapons---other than straight talk which the people of today casnnot handle--lets not tell a kid he struck out--his at bat is over---that is poppycock--live in the real world --accept what it is--I made my living be a straight talker, like it or leave it, and I will never change--I cannot stand those who need to be "nice"--better to be "you" and "real"
First of all I am not a Connecticut Yankee---I am long time NYer who has been in CT for the last 10 years of my 65
Now go back and read how it all started---snowman questioned , in a rather foolish manner the drill I mentioned regarding throwing against the wall---read the responses to his inane answer that came after that and they were not my responses--because I am the only guy around here who doesn't give a darn about hurting feelings I get the wrath of you, the TEXAN as well as snowman---I asked a simple question and he cannot answer--you know what it isnt really worth it-- you talk about my chip, actually there is none, you should look in the mirror--you like , as you say, crossing swords with me but then I use no weapons---other than straight talk which the people of today casnnot handle--lets not tell a kid he struck out--his at bat is over---that is poppycock--live in the real world --accept what it is--I made my living be a straight talker, like it or leave it, and I will never change--I cannot stand those who need to be "nice"--better to be "you" and "real"
We can only hope the good people of Manchester are reading this forum.
Connecticut yankee, New York yankee, ... whatever.
Your rude reply started the ball rolling, tr. I don't blame the guy for not answering you.
Just because you don't care about offending others (with no provocation) doesn't make it right.
Claiming to be a "straight talker" is a poor excuse for your rudeness and arrogance. Honesty doesn't require being rude. How sad that you equate rudeness and honesty.
I have no problems with the mirror here, tr. I have tried to give new posters the benefit of the doubt and to help them. Unfortunately, you cannot say the same.
The real world is a better place to live when common courtesy (a little Southern hospitality, if you will) is observed.
Your rude reply started the ball rolling, tr. I don't blame the guy for not answering you.
Just because you don't care about offending others (with no provocation) doesn't make it right.
Claiming to be a "straight talker" is a poor excuse for your rudeness and arrogance. Honesty doesn't require being rude. How sad that you equate rudeness and honesty.
I have no problems with the mirror here, tr. I have tried to give new posters the benefit of the doubt and to help them. Unfortunately, you cannot say the same.
The real world is a better place to live when common courtesy (a little Southern hospitality, if you will) is observed.
Nice job on the bad hop..............
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Texan
live in the real world --accept what it is--I made my living be a straight talker, like it or leave it, and I will never change--I cannot stand those who need to be "nice"--better to be "you" and "real"
The real world has room for improvement? Nothing wrong with being nice. If you are not nice then it's not better to be you.
snowman - That reaction pro video you gave a link to, are you connected to it in any way? Have you used it? If so, how does it compare to the reaction ball?
My experience with the reaction ball is that it does challenge the player but makes such wild bounces sometimes that the player gets tired of chasing the ball when using it for wall ball.
My experience with the reaction ball is that it does challenge the player but makes such wild bounces sometimes that the player gets tired of chasing the ball when using it for wall ball.
TEXAN/Roll it Up
Rude is not arrogance---arrogant I may be because even my wife tells me that---
SNOWMAN---they know me well and many of their sons have played for us
I so glad that you all think you are so correct---there are two sides to every street---I like my side better than yours
WOW two texans---how about that !!!!!!!!
Rude is not arrogance---arrogant I may be because even my wife tells me that---
SNOWMAN---they know me well and many of their sons have played for us
I so glad that you all think you are so correct---there are two sides to every street---I like my side better than yours
WOW two texans---how about that !!!!!!!!
quote:I like my side better than yours
May the force be with you.
Roll-it-up
Yes.
My thought is that the term "badhop" has been misused over the years. As was stated earlier in this thread no two bad hops are ever the same and I would like to take that further and say no two bounces are the same. Similar perhaps, but not identical so to my way of thinking unpredictable is a more accurate way to look at a bouncing ball on a playing field. Granted some bounces are very dramatic and can take some nasty course changes but still just a bounce. Kind of like history. You never know what it is until after it happens.
ReactionPro is designed to provide realistic training that closely resembles the actual activity on the field. And that is the reason for my earlier questions; to find out what is going on today in the game as far as drills go. People are very creative.
My intention for ReactionPro is to provide the opportunity for athletes to get 1000's of realistic off field reps applicable to their positions. Throws to 2nd, picking the ball at 1st etc. Players take 1000's of reps hitting in the cages and off the tee. Why not the same defensively?
The little bit I've tried the reaction ball tells me that it is not specific enough in its action to truly mimic a basball during play. Plus you don't play with reaction ball so the player can't "feel" the ball when fielding. Over the years my son and I developed a series of drills that allowed him to practice fielding while stationary to work on just proper positioning of the glove, say for a backhand, and then we added running and fielding the backhand off ReactionPro and finally added throwing which introduced all aspects of actual play. And the key is he could practice this over and over again while never knowing what the bounce would be. I wasn't able to duplicate these drills using a reaction ball.
Yes.
My thought is that the term "badhop" has been misused over the years. As was stated earlier in this thread no two bad hops are ever the same and I would like to take that further and say no two bounces are the same. Similar perhaps, but not identical so to my way of thinking unpredictable is a more accurate way to look at a bouncing ball on a playing field. Granted some bounces are very dramatic and can take some nasty course changes but still just a bounce. Kind of like history. You never know what it is until after it happens.
ReactionPro is designed to provide realistic training that closely resembles the actual activity on the field. And that is the reason for my earlier questions; to find out what is going on today in the game as far as drills go. People are very creative.
My intention for ReactionPro is to provide the opportunity for athletes to get 1000's of realistic off field reps applicable to their positions. Throws to 2nd, picking the ball at 1st etc. Players take 1000's of reps hitting in the cages and off the tee. Why not the same defensively?
The little bit I've tried the reaction ball tells me that it is not specific enough in its action to truly mimic a basball during play. Plus you don't play with reaction ball so the player can't "feel" the ball when fielding. Over the years my son and I developed a series of drills that allowed him to practice fielding while stationary to work on just proper positioning of the glove, say for a backhand, and then we added running and fielding the backhand off ReactionPro and finally added throwing which introduced all aspects of actual play. And the key is he could practice this over and over again while never knowing what the bounce would be. I wasn't able to duplicate these drills using a reaction ball.
FO
It always has been and always will be !!!
trust me on that
It always has been and always will be !!!
trust me on that
TRhit - You are an angry person, don't know why, perhaps you are one of the guys just stuck back in past! Are you mad at the world because you did not make it in baseball? Just Curious!
quote:"I'm not only a player of the game. I'm a student of the game. I watch and learn.
Roberto Alomar Cleveland Indians 2B"
Being a bully and a complete jerk to students of the game is why so many kids drop out and lose interest.
life always changing and therefore adapting to the new.
You mentioned "a mortor joint" What is a mortor joint anyways? Sorry do know a thing about it!
How many mortor joints on a wall? How many are there on a gym wall, house wall, school wall, are they on all walls. Will they damage a ball?
Is ther a book out there called "Mortar Joints and how to use them to become a better baseball player?"
The thread began with a baseball player asking a question. You seem to be intersted in defending your position than helping the young man succeed with what may be a difficulty in his life.
We are all students of the game aren't we?
P.S Nobody knows everything, if one thinks he/she does it's time to move on!
quote:"I'm not only a player of the game. I'm a student of the game. I watch and learn.
Roberto Alomar Cleveland Indians 2B"
Being a bully and a complete jerk to students of the game is why so many kids drop out and lose interest.
life always changing and therefore adapting to the new.
You mentioned "a mortor joint" What is a mortor joint anyways? Sorry do know a thing about it!
How many mortor joints on a wall? How many are there on a gym wall, house wall, school wall, are they on all walls. Will they damage a ball?
Is ther a book out there called "Mortar Joints and how to use them to become a better baseball player?"
The thread began with a baseball player asking a question. You seem to be intersted in defending your position than helping the young man succeed with what may be a difficulty in his life.
We are all students of the game aren't we?
P.S Nobody knows everything, if one thinks he/she does it's time to move on!
Cobb
I agree completely. It's evident that TRhit isn't interested in having open and respectful give and take for whatever reason. In the end I feel that he is not worth the effort and suggest that in the future his comments be ignored. Anytime he pops up I'm going to view it as a blank spot and move on.
Simple.
He's not worth the time.
Let's talk defense and learn.
I agree completely. It's evident that TRhit isn't interested in having open and respectful give and take for whatever reason. In the end I feel that he is not worth the effort and suggest that in the future his comments be ignored. Anytime he pops up I'm going to view it as a blank spot and move on.
Simple.
He's not worth the time.
Let's talk defense and learn.
snowman - you have a PM
quote:Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
Coachric - I, like you, taught "through the ball" and "gator hands" for years. I have seen injured hands (jamed and/or broken finger) as well as players that over run the ball making fielding errors. I watch pros and see the open book (thumbs out) methods of receiving the ball, tried it and believe it to be more natural and less risk of injury.
I would rather have jammed fingers than a broken nose. Besides, if your lid hand is done properly, the fingertips should be pointed at the sky. Any ball that hits the fingers shouldn't jam or break it.
The reason most pros field with the "open book" method is they hardly ever get bad hops. The fields they play on are immaculate.
To Those on the Opposite Side of the Street:
First of all I am the most happy guy you can meet---life is too valuable not to enjoy it--I am alive and get out of bed every day to see the sunrise and my wife and puppy love me---
I am not stuck in the past at all---I only asked the snowman to answer the question and he wouldnt---I don't deal with non responsive minds---it just tells me something about them---what are they hiding?
See ya all on the rebound--used to be we had heated debates here without the PC "BS" -- you know the stuff you want---don't insult anyone--don't hurt anyones feelings etal---no more do the good debates happen and I am sorry for that because you PC people might learn something about real life from us old farts who are , in your minds at least, "stuck in the past"--- many of us are the best of friends because we can debate without getting out feelings hurt--
Your thoughts are indicative of what is wrong with our country today---and I feel for sorry for you
JMO and I stand by it
First of all I am the most happy guy you can meet---life is too valuable not to enjoy it--I am alive and get out of bed every day to see the sunrise and my wife and puppy love me---
I am not stuck in the past at all---I only asked the snowman to answer the question and he wouldnt---I don't deal with non responsive minds---it just tells me something about them---what are they hiding?
See ya all on the rebound--used to be we had heated debates here without the PC "BS" -- you know the stuff you want---don't insult anyone--don't hurt anyones feelings etal---no more do the good debates happen and I am sorry for that because you PC people might learn something about real life from us old farts who are , in your minds at least, "stuck in the past"--- many of us are the best of friends because we can debate without getting out feelings hurt--
Your thoughts are indicative of what is wrong with our country today---and I feel for sorry for you
JMO and I stand by it
I'm a little scared to post here after everything has been said and not even sure if the kid who originally posted is still reading. But I am listening to some Bee Gees and Jive Talking so I have found my courage.
My thoughts are that you need to teach reaction skills as well as fielding techniques. The majority of balls you get are going to be "good" hops. So work on them with proper fielding techniques.
I teach the gator method but some of my guys do the thumb out that was mentioned earlier. They are successful with it so I don't mess with it. Why change something they are comfortable / successful with?
I teach my guys to be moving when the ball is pitched. You have to be moving in order to move to the ball. Think about it like a tennis player. They are not standing still when the serve comes - they are moving. They may be hopping or stepping into the serve. Both can be used in baseball. The walk into ready position or the slight hop when the pitcher delivers.
Once you start to learn these techniques then you move to reaction skills. As stated earlier you cannot guarantee what kind of hop you are going to get. Now some / most bad hops are created by the fielder not getting themselves into a good position. They create the in between hop. Ideally you want to catch the ball just coming off the ground, at the top of the hop or on the way down - never half way up to the top.
Once you are in this position or the ball just hits a rock or clump of dirt or something that changes it's path now you are in a reaction stage of catching the ball. Your hands have to be fast enough to compensate for the change in direction.
I do a drill similar (or maybe the same) as TR. I start my IF about 10 feet away from a wall in our gym. I take an Incrediball (ball used indoors - same size but softer and lighter than a baseball) and stand behind them. I take the ball and throw it past their head off the wall at them. It usually ends up one hop to them. Next time around we move in about two / three feet. Next time around move in closer. By the time we are almost finished with the drill the guys are catching balls that are getting on them pretty quickly.
Technique is the most valuable skill you can have but if you can have quick reactions / hands then you can take your skill to the next level.
My thoughts are that you need to teach reaction skills as well as fielding techniques. The majority of balls you get are going to be "good" hops. So work on them with proper fielding techniques.
I teach the gator method but some of my guys do the thumb out that was mentioned earlier. They are successful with it so I don't mess with it. Why change something they are comfortable / successful with?
I teach my guys to be moving when the ball is pitched. You have to be moving in order to move to the ball. Think about it like a tennis player. They are not standing still when the serve comes - they are moving. They may be hopping or stepping into the serve. Both can be used in baseball. The walk into ready position or the slight hop when the pitcher delivers.
Once you start to learn these techniques then you move to reaction skills. As stated earlier you cannot guarantee what kind of hop you are going to get. Now some / most bad hops are created by the fielder not getting themselves into a good position. They create the in between hop. Ideally you want to catch the ball just coming off the ground, at the top of the hop or on the way down - never half way up to the top.
Once you are in this position or the ball just hits a rock or clump of dirt or something that changes it's path now you are in a reaction stage of catching the ball. Your hands have to be fast enough to compensate for the change in direction.
I do a drill similar (or maybe the same) as TR. I start my IF about 10 feet away from a wall in our gym. I take an Incrediball (ball used indoors - same size but softer and lighter than a baseball) and stand behind them. I take the ball and throw it past their head off the wall at them. It usually ends up one hop to them. Next time around we move in about two / three feet. Next time around move in closer. By the time we are almost finished with the drill the guys are catching balls that are getting on them pretty quickly.
Technique is the most valuable skill you can have but if you can have quick reactions / hands then you can take your skill to the next level.
quote:Originally posted by redbird5:
I would rather have jammed fingers than a broken nose. Besides, if your lid hand is done properly, the fingertips should be pointed at the sky. Any ball that hits the fingers shouldn't jam or break it.
The reason most pros field with the "open book" method is they hardly ever get bad hops. The fields they play on are immaculate.
It's really not that big a deal to me "gator" or "open book." I was just stating other ways to field the ball. I try to teach the way the higher levels do it, doesn't mean it's right or wrong. I have seen injured fingers both ways and also banged faces. A bad hop is a bad hop.
Anyway, we can all walk off the field with broken bloodied noses and broken fingers as either way we are wearing the signs that none of us got the bad hop.
Do not funnel the ball in. It gives the ball more time to travel therefore the ball will tip off of your glove. When you field the ball go out with your glove and get the ball before ir has a chance to make a bad hop
quote:Originally posted by pky31:
Do not funnel the ball in. It gives the ball more time to travel therefore the ball will tip off of your glove. When you field the ball go out with your glove and get the ball before ir has a chance to make a bad hop
This is a common misconception. You only begin to "funnel" the ball AFTER it has hit your glove. Whether you "funnel" or "go out and get it" with your glove, you are still fielding the ball in the exact same spot with regards to your body.
quote:Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
It's really not that big a deal to me "gator" or "open book." I was just stating other ways to field the ball. I try to teach the way the higher levels do it, doesn't mean it's right or wrong. I have seen injured fingers both ways and also banged faces. A bad hop is a bad hop.
Anyway, we can all walk off the field with broken bloodied noses and broken fingers as either way we are wearing the signs that none of us got the bad hop.
True, BUT...at least with a "gator" approach, you have a chance to deflect a bad hop at your face.
I can't begin to tell you how many bad hops that I either caught or deflected downward (and threw out a runner) because of my lid hand.
Good reflex, good hands, it is what a fielder needs to catch bad hopes, unfortunatelly, like TR says, those are natural gifts. It can't be practiced. It is a reaction that nonbody can predict.
I love posting on the fourth page of an interesting question apparently posed by an young man that sincerely wants to become a better shortstop for his JV team. I am posting on the fourth page because it [like so many others through the years] has now been hijacked by TR.
I believe there are several kinds of good hops and several kinds of bad hops. What I would be interesting in asking myself if I were playing shortstop on my JV High School team first is what position must I be in when the ball hits the bat that best enables me to catch or at least stop the bad hop but still field the good hop. The answer given by several posters was to be low to the ground [preferably glove on the ground] and on the balls of your feet the mili-second the bat hits the ball. I agree with that. Whether you get there by starting back two steps from where you want to be and take two steps as the ball is pitched or whether you crouch flat footed and come up on the balls of your feet just as the batter is making contact makes little difference to me. The important thing is to be on the balls of your feet as bat hits the ball. If you are really good you can tell a fraction of a second before the bat hits the ball whether the ball will be hit to your left or to your right and can start in that direction even before the ball is actually struck by the bat. That can be practiced with the several drills that have been mentioned without worring about whether they are bad hops or good hops coming off a wall or whatever.
The second question i would ask myself as a shortstop is is there some way that i can make a bad hop more predictable or, at least, more readable and prepare myself to adjust to it if and when it happens without sacrificing my ability to look real classy with the routine good hop play. My answer to that, certain to create controversy if it were not on the fourth page of this remarkable post, is NO. You have to make a choice. Do you want to look good on the routine plays and miss the bad hops consistently and everybody just says "what a shame, he got a bad hop. I can't see giving him an error on that play" or do you want to prepare and train yourself to automatically adjust to the bad hops thereby throwing runners out that would normally be safe but not look as good as your contemporaries who look so much smoother on the good hops even though you ar throwing out those type of runners every time also.
somervilleboy617: PM me if you understand where I am coming from and want more specifics. I am tired of posting what I know from experience for nimcompops who care much more about their egos than young men like yourself that appear interested in getting better at this game.
TW344
I believe there are several kinds of good hops and several kinds of bad hops. What I would be interesting in asking myself if I were playing shortstop on my JV High School team first is what position must I be in when the ball hits the bat that best enables me to catch or at least stop the bad hop but still field the good hop. The answer given by several posters was to be low to the ground [preferably glove on the ground] and on the balls of your feet the mili-second the bat hits the ball. I agree with that. Whether you get there by starting back two steps from where you want to be and take two steps as the ball is pitched or whether you crouch flat footed and come up on the balls of your feet just as the batter is making contact makes little difference to me. The important thing is to be on the balls of your feet as bat hits the ball. If you are really good you can tell a fraction of a second before the bat hits the ball whether the ball will be hit to your left or to your right and can start in that direction even before the ball is actually struck by the bat. That can be practiced with the several drills that have been mentioned without worring about whether they are bad hops or good hops coming off a wall or whatever.
The second question i would ask myself as a shortstop is is there some way that i can make a bad hop more predictable or, at least, more readable and prepare myself to adjust to it if and when it happens without sacrificing my ability to look real classy with the routine good hop play. My answer to that, certain to create controversy if it were not on the fourth page of this remarkable post, is NO. You have to make a choice. Do you want to look good on the routine plays and miss the bad hops consistently and everybody just says "what a shame, he got a bad hop. I can't see giving him an error on that play" or do you want to prepare and train yourself to automatically adjust to the bad hops thereby throwing runners out that would normally be safe but not look as good as your contemporaries who look so much smoother on the good hops even though you ar throwing out those type of runners every time also.
somervilleboy617: PM me if you understand where I am coming from and want more specifics. I am tired of posting what I know from experience for nimcompops who care much more about their egos than young men like yourself that appear interested in getting better at this game.
TW344
never really needed any practice when i was a kid learning to catch bad hops. On the fields we playerd on you were surprised by the good ones.
Will
I am convinced that you and I came out of a world unknown to most of the posters here
I can remember playing on fields with sand pits at each base and broken glass in the basepaths
Alas it was a great time
I am convinced that you and I came out of a world unknown to most of the posters here
I can remember playing on fields with sand pits at each base and broken glass in the basepaths
Alas it was a great time
quote:Originally posted by Will:
On the fields we playerd on you were surprised by the good ones.
Must have been playing on the same fields. Surprised I didn't see you out there.
