Tebow

For me it all comes down to the fact he is 30 years old. How quickly will he have to develop to be able to actually help a team? Doing this at a time in your life when you are on the backside not the front side? Now if he were 20 years old. Big strong athletic kid. Runs well. Yes his swing is stiff and has issues. But there is time to develop it. Yep got to give this kid a shot.

I like Tim. I thought in the right system he could have helped an NFL team win games. But that's just my opinion. He doesn't have the arm to win in the type's of offensive systems NFL teams run. The NFL game and the college game are two entirely different games especially for QB's.

I expect that someone is going to give him a shot. I hope he proves me wrong and lights it up. I certainly wouldn't put any money on that happening. But then again I have been wrong before that's for sure. Why is he doing it? I don't think it has anything to do with trying to stay in the limelight. He could go into politics and be in the limelight. I think it's about the desire to compete at the highest level you can compete. He is driven and misses that. He needs the juice that competition brings. I wish him well I think he's a great guy.

Curious if all you guys thought the same thing about Michael Jordan.  He had absolutely no baseball ability whatsoever....yet everyone loved the fact that he played minor league baseball.  He was like the circus coming to town....the teams played it up for all it was worth.  Tebow isn't looking for that....and he is a much better baseball player than Jordan was when he tried to break into MILB

You don't find too many athletes that don't try to hang on.  It's part of their competitive nature.  I don't have a problem with him giving it his best shot.  In fact, I admire it.  Yes, he has some "unfair advantages" with getting a good look.  Not his fault.  In fact, he largely earned that advantage through his other efforts and accomplishments made elsewhere.

As far as baseball skills, the short links to his BP cuts prior to yesterday's workout provided some element of intrigue.  Of course, we all knew the speed, strength and athleticism were there.  He has proven he can handle being on the big stage.  Then the clips came out from yesterday.  The earlier concerns about hitting decent pitching effectively at this late stage were largely validated.  His defense, arm, throwing motion and glove action appeared quite behind for what he is trying to accomplish.  He is not that good of a hitter or advanced enough to invest in to just be a DH.  I applaud the effort but don't see it happening.  

I don't believe it is his intention, but I think the only reason he may get a shot somewhere is to put more butts in seats for a short period of time.

cabbagedad posted:

 

 but I think the only reason he may get a shot somewhere is to put more butts in seats for a short period of time.

 

I think this is spot on, it is certainly part of reason I don't feel the need to take it seriously.

"He has proven he can handle being on the big stage.  Then the clips came out from yesterday.  The earlier concerns about hitting decent pitching effectively at this late stage were largely validated. " 

A couple of things to note, and I'm not trying to make Tim out to be something that he's not, but.  His BP was pretty darned good.   Put him in most any pro-style workout, and he probably garners some attention.   He can mash.  

Secondly:  Its tough to tell how he did against the live pitching - apparently he did better against Aardsma, but these are former MLB relief pitchers who were also trying to prove themselves to MLB clubs.  From the reports I've read, he hit the ball solidly several times, and had some good licks including a double.    Not too  shabby.  Especially for a guy who's been out of the game for a while and is going against highest level pitchers.

I don't know what happens with Tim.  The cards are stacked against him, I guess. 

Judge for yourself but if this is his current swing not sure who judged this as being very good. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBjv7mmjsUg

Buckeye 2015 posted:

....  Tebow isn't looking for that....and he is a much better baseball player than Jordan was when he tried to break into MILB

Maybe you are looking at something I am not but  Jordan at least seemed to have decent hitting mechanics. 

Tebow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBjv7mmjsUg  

Jordan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K18K7ue5Ymg and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=104Y6jan4E4 

He really shouldn't have faced those guys in a live hitting situation. I'm sure there are a couple of former college pitchers hanging around USC, either on the staff, or still in school that would have been a better fit for him to hit against. You wouldn't expect a high school prospect, or even a college guy, to come out and showcase against major league talent.

On a another note, Tebow keeps getting bigger and more muscular. He's more of a monster now than ever before. Based on his 60 time and the basic eyeball test, he looks more and more like a true NFL fullback/tight end/H-back combo type player.

He definitely has a thing for working out.   I'm not going to bag on him for it though.

I do wonder how much stretching he does.    I wonder if he qualifies as "obese"?  If he weren't so muscular would he be a bit faster?   Would he throw better?

He had a 45 for an arm.  That is about 43 points higher than mine.  I can't throw 90 feet without a 45 degree arc anymore - shoddy labrum and all.  I take that back.  I could throw 90 feet on a line...once.  Then it would be off tot he emergency room.

He was listed at  6'3" 255 for the baseball workout. Ran a 4.72 40 at the NFL combine at 6'3" 236lbs. Based on his 60 time, he hasn't lost any speed, despite his age and weight gain.

His 60 was really very good for a big, power guy. How many current MLB players at 245lbs or higher can run that time??? I'm guessing a lot of current MLB guys ran sub 6.7 as 18 year olds, and several of the true speed guys ran 6.5 or lower. Have those guys maintained that speed with additional weight gain, age, and the wear and tear of playing a 162 game season?

Stafford posted:

His 60 was really very good for a big, power guy. How many current MLB players at 245lbs or higher can run that time??? I'm guessing a lot of current MLB guys ran sub 6.7 as 18 year olds, and several of the true speed guys ran 6.5 or lower. Have those guys maintained that speed with additional weight gain, age, and the wear and tear of playing a 162 game season?

Agreed.  However, Tebow hasn't had the wear & tear of a 162 game season though.  In terms of size & speed, Trout & Puig come to mind.   Tebow is even bigger than them though.   I'm not all saying he has the Baseball skills of Trout or Puig of course.

What was demonstrated was how incredible NFL athletes are. For his size to generate that much power shows how special they are. (as well as how brutal the sport can be on their bodies)  No wonder they last, on average, three years.   Baseball. Meh. He looked like what essentially he was - a linebacker swinging a bat really hard. Can you say bat drag... At some point the extra body mass works against you in baseball, the only similar baseball athlete I can think of is Yasiel Puig, and the Dodgers worked hard for him to get his weight down mostly for durability as others have pointed out.  Tebow's only value on a baseball team would be to hit the ball out of the park, which takes very fine hand eye coordination and 1) He has to demonstrate that he has it at an elite level. 2) He is running out of runway at 29. 3) His timing was very strange, minor league ball is wrapping up in the next couple of weeks. Nice guy, was fun in the media for a week, college football is starting up and all will be forgotten. 

2 days post workout and Tebow is under an umbrella now in Knoxville doing pre-game for SEC Network. Lucky guy gets to see                                APPALACHIAN STATE FOOTBALL tonight in their season opener.

Stafford posted:

2 days post workout and Tebow is under an umbrella now in Knoxville doing pre-game for SEC Network. Lucky guy gets to see                                APPALACHIAN STATE FOOTBALL tonight in their season opener.

Yeah but that is just a hobby!

So far one of the Venezuela teams in the Carribean League and Bridgeport CT, an Indy are calling. Playing in the Carribean League would be a good idea. But not for a Venezuelan team. Indy ball doesn't start until June. I doubt a MLB franchise would sacrifice a top prospect's playing time in fall instructional ball.. 

Fall instructs, winter ball, spring training, extended spring training, and a summer of rookie ball, we should see what the boy"s got by this time next year. My guess would be low A.

Stafford posted:

He was listed at  6'3" 255 for the baseball workout. Ran a 4.72 40 at the NFL combine at 6'3" 236lbs. Based on his 60 time, he hasn't lost any speed, despite his age and weight gain.

His 60 was really very good for a big, power guy. How many current MLB players at 245lbs or higher can run that time??? I'm guessing a lot of current MLB guys ran sub 6.7 as 18 year olds, and several of the true speed guys ran 6.5 or lower. Have those guys maintained that speed with additional weight gain, age, and the wear and tear of playing a 162 game season?

He did run well, but I also read somewhere that they positioned the run so he was running downhill.  Obviously that would skew the times some.  Still impressive though.

The Doctor posted:

Fall instructs, winter ball, spring training, extended spring training, and a summer of rookie ball, we should see what the boy"s got by this time next year. My guess would be low A.

Micro-insult.  

rynoattack posted:

Stafford posted:

He was listed at  6'3" 255 for the baseball workout. Ran a 4.72 40 at the NFL combine at 6'3" 236lbs. Based on his 60 time, he hasn't lost any speed, despite his age and weight gain.

His 60 was really very good for a big, power guy. How many current MLB players at 245lbs or higher can run that time??? I'm guessing a lot of current MLB guys ran sub 6.7 as 18 year olds, and several of the true speed guys ran 6.5 or lower. Have those guys maintained that speed with additional weight gain, age, and the wear and tear of playing a 162 game season?

He did run well, but I also read somewhere that they positioned the run so he was running downhill.  Obviously that would skew the times some.  Still impressive though.

Wasn't it held at USC's field? Do they have that much of a slope?

The Doctor posted:

Fall instructs, winter ball, spring training, extended spring training, and a summer of rookie ball, we should see what the boy"s got by this time next year. My guess would be low A.

My guess is he doesn't get a shot with organized baseball. If he does low A would be where he starts. But with his age the expectation would be rising to AA by the end of the season AA/AAA/Majors the following season or he's cut. He will be 30 next season and 31 the year after. If he's not in the majors by 31 it's a waste of time. If he's a marginal MLBer it's a waste of time versus developing a young player.

i don't see any MLB organizations trying to get the jump over another organization on signing him.

Couple of videos up on Youtube. Meh. One hitting from the outfield view and one from the side view. Also, can see the throws from the outfield. It's not good. I'm not a scout or have any experience evaluating talent. But, it's not good. I would definitely want this guy on my slowpitch team.

He's a good looking guy with a great college football resume. And he's inspirational and a good guy. He should stick  to SEC Network. Or become an H-back/fullback/tight end in the NFL.

The envelop please.

And the most desperate team in MLB baseball appears to be ....

.... drum roll please 

.... The Atlanta Braves

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News...Tebow/9801472966238/

He'll look like the Hulk next to those fresh out of high school kids in Danville, VA next summer.

He'll also give them someone to look up to, will provide a good positive influence upon  the team and will be able to model dedication, humility, persistence and the over-all value of working hard, having goals and challenging the odds as well as the nay-sayers.  All key intangibles for aspiring big leaguers.   Braves end up the winners by inviting him into their clubhouse.

uuhhh, not a "nay-sayer", but just feeling an old illness coming back.

Teaching Elder posted:

He'll also give them someone to look up to, will provide a good positive influence upon  the team and will be able to model dedication, humility, persistence and the over-all value of working hard, having goals and challenging the odds as well as the nay-sayers.  All key intangibles for aspiring big leaguers.   Braves end up the winners by inviting him into their clubhouse.

Or he'll foster animosity that he's getting all the attention despite not being as good (or as dedicated) at baseball as them and that he's taking a roster spot that should be going to someone with a potential baseball future (or that he's taken the spot of someone they knew and liked).

That's not idle speculation, many of Jordan's baseball teammates were reported to feel similarly back in the day, in spite of his financial generosity towards the team (as I recall, he wasn't interested in travelling in MiLB style, so he anted up for better transportation for the team).

I am a TT fan.  I don't get whether this is a publicity stunt on his part, or just goes to show you how desperate teams are to sell tickets.  Always remember folks, this business is all about business.  

The season is just about over for milb teams.  So I am assuming he has to go through spring training next year to make a roster.  He will be 30, which means he has to make a AAA roster, which means he will be taking someone else's spot who has worked years to get there.

Mind boggling.

He did.  He bought them a nice bus.

 If they felt that way, then they should have looked in the mirror.  Most of them were just roster fillers as well.   Jordan took the place of absolutely zero true prospects.  

Baseball players are notoriously arrogant, petty and disparaging of others.  Those guys needed to get some perspective.

Teaching Elder posted:

He did.  He bought them a nice bus.

 If they felt that way, then they should have looked in the mirror.  Most of them were just roster fillers as well.   Jordan took the place of absolutely zero true prospects.  

Baseball players are notoriously arrogant, petty and disparaging of others.  Those guys needed to get some perspective.

This may well be true. Having Tebow taking up a likely undeserved roster spot isn't going to make that problem better.

Very few of them "Deserve" a roster spot.   That's why they get paid $1500/month.  Almost all are expendable crew members who will get killed when they teleport down to the planet to check things out.

Teaching Elder posted:

Very few of them "Deserve" a roster spot.   That's why they get paid $1500/month.  Almost all are expendable crew members who will get killed when they teleport down to the planet to check things out.

I was talking AAA and most of them makevptwtty good mobey being former MLB guys.

And yes, there is always some type of resentment when this happens.  

Is there some rule saying that 30 year olds must be on a AAA roster?

I disagree with a lot of the people in baseball that are against what Tebow is trying to do.

He is a Heismann Trophy winner and arguably one of the most "famous" football players ever.  Many say that if he would have switched positions he would still be in the NFL.  

How many other people can create this much attention for the game of baseball?  I really don't care if he makes it or not, that will be up to him and whoever gives him the opportunity.  Tebow must have more than a million football fans and it would be great if he plays baseball, but most important is that he is out there showing people he "wants" to play baseball.  

Most baseball fans don't know much about first round picks and prospects.   But pretty much everyone knows who Tim Tebow is!  Baseball people should thank him for showing so much interest and bringing so much attention to the game we love.  

Teaching Elder posted:

Is there some rule saying that 30 year olds must be on a AAA roster?

Why not look up a minor AAA league roster and do the homework yourself. 

While I am a fan of TT, I dont agree with Jerrys post.  How many football fans are going to follow milb baseball because thats where he is going to start, not on a ML roster.

In spring training Tebow will get more attention than established players and top prospects. That's going to piss off a lot of ball players. About a week after being assigned to a minor league team he will be forgotten news except on ESPN. Every time Tebow hits a homer or drives in a run he will be on ESPN. They use Tebow for ratings.

I'm guessing he starts the season in low full season A. But there will be an expectation to be AAA ready by the end of the season. If he's not in AAA next spring with an expected call up by July 1 it's  all a waste of time given his age.

He would have been better off trying to comeback as a knuckleballer. They're just getting started in their 30's. They pitch into their 40's.

TPM posted:

---

I am a TT fan.  I don't get whether this is a publicity stunt on his part, or just goes to show you how desperate teams are to sell tickets.  Always remember folks, this business is all about business.  

The season is just about over for milb teams.  So I am assuming he has to go through spring training next year to make a roster.  He will be 30, which means he has to make a AAA roster, which means he will be taking someone else's spot who has worked years to get there.

Mind boggling.

 

Many of the best baseball players in MLB are not recognizable by the casual fan. If Adidas wants to promote their line of baseball gear, or football gear too, or crossfit gear or whatever, Tebow is more recognizable that most anyone currently playing. 

Let's say there's a cutout figure in Dick's Sporting goods of Altuve and another of Tebow. Whether he makes it or not, who will most people recognize?

TPM posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Is there some rule saying that 30 year olds must be on a AAA roster?

Why not look up a minor AAA league roster and do the homework yourself. 

While I am a fan of TT, I dont agree with Jerrys post.  How many football fans are going to follow milb baseball because thats where he is going to start, not on a ML roster.

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I have never heard of such a rule.  If it exists I'd like to know.

I would assume he would start out at low A or Rookie ball just like most others.  He would get a chance to move up as he performed appropriately at various levels.  He won't get a chance to hold back any true prospects, and won't be gifted the show any more than MJ was.   He is very little different than the scads of late round guys that get taken each year on the off chance that maybe they might pan-out only to end up getting let go within two years.   The fact is, if a players doesn't go in the top 2 rounds, they are likely roster fillers and won't make it.   Yet they hang on, sometimes for years, much to the chagrin of their parents and significant others who wish they'd get a real job. 

  If Tebow wants to while his time away in the minor leagues, he's good enough to do it.   Go ahead, be my guest.  He absolutely will NOT be keeping any true prospects out of the league anymore than another late rounder.

I just think it is great that Tebow is big news these days and it is because of baseball.  In some ways he is the biggest story in baseball the last few weeks.  The same thing would happen if he decided to be a stock car driver.  This is a Heismann Trophy winner wanting to play baseball.  I like it when baseball is the biggest story out there.  And just like Michael Jordan it says a lot about the game, that these type guys want to play baseball. 

He can either do it or he can't.  If he can't do it, he will be out of the game.  I don't think he can do it.  But what on earth is wrong with him trying.  I'm hoping it is more than just a publicity stunt, don't think he needs the publicity.

As far as pissing off teammates, I actually know a guy that was on Jordan's baseball team.  He loved it! Big crowds, luxury bus, lots of fun, etc. Jordan drew so much interest that the rest of the team was very relaxed.

I know everyone doesn't share my opinion and that is OK, too.

Teaching Elder posted:

Is there some rule saying that 30 year olds must be on a AAA roster?

It's kind of an unwritten rule of development once 27 and in AA it's, " See ya, enjoy the rest of your life."

I know the Seadogs (Red Sox AA) have a 27 year old. But they had huge holes in their roster, a second consecutive last place season and decreasing crowds. Tavares hit .335. He was needed. He was actually sent down from AAA when there wasn't room for him.. He's a career AAAA player at best.

AAAA - A lifer AAA player who goes up and down from AAA with occasional two week roster filler stints in MLB when someone hits the DL. He gets released every couple of years. But he always finds a new AAA home until he's in his 30's. Then they go home or become MiLB coaches.

Teaching Elder posted:

TPM posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Is there some rule saying that 30 year olds must be on a AAA roster?

Why not look up a minor AAA league roster and do the homework yourself. 

While I am a fan of TT, I dont agree with Jerrys post.  How many football fans are going to follow milb baseball because thats where he is going to start, not on a ML roster.

I'm not trying to be snarky.  I have never heard of such a rule.  If it exists I'd like to know.

I would assume he would start out at low A or Rookie ball just like most others.  He would get a chance to move up as he performed appropriately at various levels.  He won't get a chance to hold back any true prospects, and won't be gifted the show any more than MJ was.   He is very little different than the scads of late round guys that get taken each year on the off chance that maybe they might pan-out only to end up getting let go within two years.   The fact is, if a players doesn't go in the top 2 rounds, they are likely roster fillers and won't make it.   Yet they hang on, sometimes for years, much to the chagrin of their parents and significant others who wish they'd get a real job. 

  If Tebow wants to while his time away in the minor leagues, he's good enough to do it.   Go ahead, be my guest.  He absolutely will NOT be keeping any true prospects out of the league anymore than another late rounder.

Where did I say it was a rule. The milb system is based on age.  30 year olds are not found in low A or rookie ball.  He is not a draft prospect he is a free agent never played the pro game.  

Why would he do that?   

Where do you get info from that anyone past the second round is just a roster filler.  

Did you see his swing?