For there to be an injustice here, there has to be z person/people involved.
TPM posted:He is definetly there for a reason, but its not because he is a top 30 prospect.
AFL batting stats - AFL stats
C'mon, he doesn't look as bad as Kevin Cron.
I'm not an expert on Sabermetrics, but I think a .333 OPS for a power hitter is just a little below ideal.
This is an interesting site, Rob. There are a number of "top 30" type guys who have been playing for a number of years, and have made it through various levels of MiLB. These aren't guys trying to get their swings back. And they are doing pretty abysmally bad right along side of Tebow. Maybe it's just a tough league.
What a relief to find the unfollow topic... blowing up my inbox.. I could barely see the email regarding the FBI reopening Hillarys email investigation.
Go Cubs!!!
Gov posted:What a relief to find the unfollow topic... blowing up my inbox.. I could barely see the email regarding the FBI reopening Hillarys email investigation.
Go Cubs!!!
Lol. This is why I like you, Gov.
Even if you never will read this post.
Teaching Elder posted:This is an interesting site, Rob. There are a number of "top 30" type guys who have been playing for a number of years, and have made it through various levels of MiLB. These aren't guys trying to get their swings back. And they are doing pretty abysmally bad right along side of Tebow. Maybe it's just a tough league.
What are their ages? TT is going to be 30. Who and why do teams send 30 year olds to a top prospect league?
Teaching Elder posted:This is an interesting site, Rob. There are a number of "top 30" type guys who have been playing for a number of years, and have made it through various levels of MiLB. These aren't guys trying to get their swings back. And they are doing pretty abysmally bad right along side of Tebow. Maybe it's just a tough league.
It's not traditionally a tough league for batters. The pitching can be spotty because top end guys that have thrown a lot of innings are shut down by that point. You do get some guys who end up being good, but aren't quite there yet.
The season isn't over yet, but at this point, Tebow's OPS is lower than anyone in the league for the last 10 years.
Who you like best off that list? I like the Gleyber Torres kid. SS hitting .357 with 5 extra base hits including 3 taters in 28 abs. I wonder what his defense looks like?
I'm guessing all the Tebow talk will be over by the all star break next season. By then the Mets will realize it's not working. That's if Tebow doesn't figure it out first.
it can be easily argued Tebow doesn't deserve to be in the AZL. But because the Mets made the foolish decision to sign Tebow they need to find out quickly what a 30yo (next season) has. It doesn't look like much. I figure he's gone by the all star break next year with a sub .200 BA. If he undeservedly makes the all star game in his league with undeserving stats we will know the fix is in.
Heres a couple of things to keep in mind. 1) NY is a very competitive media market. How much have the Yankees been in the news since Tebow's signing? 2) The Mets own their low A affiliate. They will make money with Tebow packing the house in a Florida stadium. The signing makes perfect business sense.
I'm indifferent to Tebow as a person. A lot of athletes and everyday citizens do a lot for charity. He's not special. It's the illogical support of Tebow as an NFL QB and baseball player I find annoying.
I agree that Tebow is there because the Mets want a very quick analysis of what he can do. Do you think they'll give up on $100k prior to next year's all star break? I don't think that jersey sales and gate receipts will have paid for him by then. Don't they split jersey profits?
I don't see Tebow just giving up easily. He's not that type of guy. Mets have money invested in him. He'll be around for a couple of years.
Teaching Elder posted:I agree that Tebow is there because the Mets want a very quick analysis of what he can do. Do you think they'll give up on $100k prior to next year's all star break? I don't think that jersey sales and gate receipts will have paid for him by then. Don't they split jersey profits?
I don't see Tebow just giving up easily. He's not that type of guy. Mets have money invested in him. He'll be around for a couple of years.
Milb until he is in his 30s? That would make him more of a spectical than a player.
Where will you put him, what level? With 17,18 year old latin players in the GCL?
They are selling his jersey and he hasnt made a ML roster, who does that? Why?
I think they sent him to get rid of him, for prospects, you know, heres an attraction. I dont think they expected these results. He is playing against much younger pitchers and he still cant hit.
He does have the option to walk away and pay back his bonus.
Teaching Elder posted:I agree that Tebow is there because the Mets want a very quick analysis of what he can do. Do you think they'll give up on $100k prior to next year's all star break? I don't think that jersey sales and gate receipts will have paid for him by then. Don't they split jersey profits?
I don't see Tebow just giving up easily. He's not that type of guy. Mets have money invested in him. He'll be around for a couple of years.
I believe Tebow has to make it through all of A ball next year and go from AA to MLB the following year or he's released. The only exception would be if he's starting the third season in AAA with the expectation he's up before the all star break.
I believe the Tebow jersey violated the players's association contract. He's not on the 40 man roster. The Mets had to get a waiver.
TPM posted:Teaching Elder posted:I agree that Tebow is there because the Mets want a very quick analysis of what he can do. Do you think they'll give up on $100k prior to next year's all star break? I don't think that jersey sales and gate receipts will have paid for him by then. Don't they split jersey profits?
I don't see Tebow just giving up easily. He's not that type of guy. Mets have money invested in him. He'll be around for a couple of years.
Milb until he is in his 30s? That would make him more of a spectical than a player.
It is what it is. Being out of place is no reason not to do something.
He really doesn't care what people think. Maybe that's what bothers people the most. He's not a controllable will.
Where will you put him, what level? With 17,18 year old latin players in the GCL?
That is for the Mets to determine. But, I would expect him to go where he would be if he was an 18 -21 y/o - High A.
They are selling his jersey and he hasnt made a ML roster, who does that? Why?
The Mets knew that he was going to be popular right out of the gate. Are they selling very many? If so, he is in demand. Smart move Mets.
I think they sent him to get rid of him, for prospects, you know, heres an attraction. I dont think they expected these results. He is playing against much younger pitchers and he still cant hit.
He hasn't played in a number of years and is hitting as well as a number of other top prospects in the AFL. Granted, his numbers aren't good, but it's not like he's terrible and everyone else is great. He has 33 abs in a young career. You are a baseball savvy person. You should know that a guy can be 0 for 25 in a blink of an eye in pro-ball.
He does have the option to walk away and pay back his bonus.
He may pay back his bonus, but I don't really see him quitting. He likes what he's doing. If he actually makes his team money, he's already more valuable than most every other MiLB player out there. Let him play until he's 60 if he wants to.
Doesn't work that way.
TPM posted:Doesn't work that way.
What doesn't?
Seems its gotten way over your head. Do some homework.
No. You could simply be more specific and even forthcoming rather than constantly retreating your favorite dismissive riposte of implying that you are superior in knowledge to whomever you are disagreeing with at the time. It's unhelpful and comes off as extremely snotty.
I am quite capable of swimming in the intellectual deep water.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/18/s...son-will-soldier-on/
After starting 0 for 13, he hit .245 the rest of the way. Good for him. "Not an embarrassment" (as an unnamed executive was quoted in the article). But not a prospect, either.
2019Dad posted:http://nypost.com/2016/11/18/s...son-will-soldier-on/
After starting 0 for 13, he hit .245 the rest of the way. Good for him. "Not an embarrassment" (as an unnamed executive was quoted in the article). But not a prospect, either.
yes he didn't embarrass himself (low average but reasonable K rate against good competition) but he clearly is not a prospect and most scouts knew that after his first workout.
what I don't understand is the hatred against him acting like HE is betraying MLB, baseball and other prospects by getting a chance he did not deserve.
if anyone would be to blame it would be the Mets who milked the popularity of football to make money despite knowing what they got with Tebow.
Tebow did not harm anyone, he was used by the owners of the Mets as a marketing gimmick to gain the Mets publicity and money.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/n...nd-heres-how-he-did/
"In his last 11 games, Tebow was 9-for-32, good for a .281 average. He also drew eight walks in that time, so the on-base percentage was an excellent .425."
Now those are prospect-type numbers
hsbaseball101 posted:http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/n...nd-heres-how-he-did/
"In his last 11 games, Tebow was 9-for-32, good for a .281 average. He also drew eight walks in that time, so the on-base percentage was an excellent .425."
Now those are prospect-type numbers
Is 11 games really a big enough Sample size? I just ask, I am not trying to refute anything.
Selective endpoints.
Everybody (well, everyone not named Shaq Thompson) has stretches of being "good". For actual prospects, those stretches dwarf the bad ones when everything is summed up. Which is another way of saying that good prospects best 11 game stretches look more like 400/600/800 than 280/430/350 (or whatever Tebow's actual line was for those 11 games).
No. Not for a 30 year old who never played a full season especially in the cushy AFL.
Tebow didn't do terribly with the bat. the final 11 games average doesn't say much but the same can be said about the 40 game or so Overall sample size.
tebow is not a non prospect because of his stats. stats are important but prospects are evaluated more by how they look to Scouts. If a random 10th round pick happens to hit .320 in A ball that still doesn't make him a better prospect than some top prospect who only hits .260. Scouts evaluate Tools more than production.
tebows stats haven't been good either, but he is a non prospect because apart from average raw power all his other Tools are 20s and 30s. maybe you can give him 55 raw power but he still is a 20 fielder, probably 40 runner, 30 thrower and 20-30 hitter.
even if some work makes him a 45 hitter with 55 game power (optimistic) he still can't field or throw. to be a productive Player with his defense he would Need to have 70 power and at least 50 hit.
there are so many guys in the minors with 60-70 power (much better than TT) who never make it due to strikeout or defense issues. for example I read an article about brewers prospect Adam Brett walker. he is 25 years old and has hit 30 HRs the last two seasons but was claimed of waivers by the brewers. he has tons of power but strikes out all the time and can't Play defense.
even if tebow would have hit 300 it wouldn't have made him a real prospect.
However I'm still impressed about what he did. he did not Play for 10+ years and made adecent amount of contact and got some hits against really good competition. that is not enough to make the Majors but more than what most People could have done.
I honestly thought he would strike out like 60% of the time and totally embarass himself and he did not do that.
Well thought out and communicated point Dominik. A lot of truth in there. Tim is at incredible odds. Actually, who isn't?
I think that most anyone could agree that he's a good baseball player, though.
I remember in college, after years of HS ball and several years of 18 and over ball against varying levels of competition, I stood in on a friend, a lefty who had been a record holder during his time at Alabama. He'd been out for several years and was getting in shape to go be a strike buster back in, what 93 or 94? Anyway, he was never a flame thrower, rather a "crafty lefty." He wanted me to swing away. I couldn't touch the guy. He may have been mid 80s if I had to guess. My hat's off to Tim...and then back on quickly, as I am embarrassed about my hair loss.
TE
The good news is he doesn't have to throw a spiral.
The bad news is he has to hit professional pitching.
Having to hit professional pitching sounds like good news to me. The outcome may or may not be what anyone expects, that's another story.
What's the worst that could happen, he fails? Half the world is rooting for that to happen (haters) and the other half doesn't care. I heard an interesting snippet of an interview Tebow gave and I think he is a fine young man, certainly a specimen physically. He has the drive that most ball players have, and if his skills ever catch up to that then he may have a long shot. And then won't the Mets look like the biggest brains in the room.
SanDiegoRealist posted:What's the worst that could happen, he fails? Half the world is rooting for that to happen (haters) and the other half doesn't care. I heard an interesting snippet of an interview Tebow gave and I think he is a fine young man, certainly a specimen physically. He has the drive that most ball players have, and if his skills ever catch up to that then he may have a long shot. And then won't the Mets look like the biggest brains in the room.
Substantially more than half the world doesn't care at all. Most of the rest of the people who think he's destined to fail are just realistic, and don't care because they don't care one way or the other about him and/or the Mets (to be fair, I actually do root against the Mets, as a Phillies fan).
To put it in perspective, I rooted for Michael Jordan to succeed with the Sox because I was a fan, not because I thought he had a snowball's chance, and I'd completely understand those who thought it was all a sideshow (since it was).
I have always been a Tebow fan, however, IMO he has had an opportunity to do what others have not, which is have 2 careers going at the same time. Best of both worlds. This fall he was allowed to leave on his off days to go to his other career, football analyst. While some say good for him, I wonder about his true sincerity to the game, while others give their blood and guts to make a living at the game.
I know players who were not allowed to leave early to go back and finish their degree when classes began in august. Although I understand the Mets have an arrangement with him, teams have always made milb players feel that if you want a career in baseball, thats what you concentrate on.
If this is what TT really wants to do, give up all the other stuff you got going on (book signings, celebrity golf tournaments, etc.) to really give it your 100% best shot. Then I will know you are serious.
While I wish him the best of luck, its obvious why he is there, to put a little extra cash in the Mets and their affiliates pocket, they have no intention of ever giving up a 25 man roster spot for him, too many other more talented players who will help win a championship.
JMO
And if he does get a 25-man spot will you feel he has earned it? Hell, he could probably jump right into the Padres lineup and it wouldn't make a blip on the performance of the team one way or another. If Tebow is getting special dispensation to do things outside of baseball, then chalk that up to whatever you want (his agent, the Mets front office, whatever). It is what it is...just like in every other aspect of this sport you cannot worry about the other guy's deal, performance, personal life. Tebow is a very polarizing figure, and it's too bad because all the guy does is put forth a great example for every kid in America. I'm not a huge fan of his, but let's be honest: If your son were in his shoes wouldn't you want him to have the opportunity?
2forU posted:
"Obviously, the Mets prefer to have Tebow play home games to increase interest and attendance, though the game against Boston (because Red Sox fans tend to travel well) was expected to draw a significant crowd anyway. In addition, the game against Boston will be shown live on SNY at 1 p.m."
If you have already paid for MLB TV this game may be available. It would also be available on Android devices using the KODI app and SportsDevil addon.
SanDiegoRealist posted:And if he does get a 25-man spot will you feel he has earned it? Hell, he could probably jump right into the Padres lineup and it wouldn't make a blip on the performance of the team one way or another. If Tebow is getting special dispensation to do things outside of baseball, then chalk that up to whatever you want (his agent, the Mets front office, whatever). It is what it is...just like in every other aspect of this sport you cannot worry about the other guy's deal, performance, personal life. Tebow is a very polarizing figure, and it's too bad because all the guy does is put forth a great example for every kid in America. I'm not a huge fan of his, but let's be honest: If your son were in his shoes wouldn't you want him to have the opportunity?
The answer to your question is NO. When son was in AZFL he couldnt even leave for a wedding! And he was a relief pitcher!
He has no tools to make a 25 man roster, he is a side show for the Mets, and for that I feel badly for him.
It is what it is and I dont have to agree with it.
If he can hit better than .230 and 7 home runs, he'd be better than Jason Heyward. But I don't think he could field worth a lick. It's too late to turn him into even a competent outfielder...
hsbaseball101 posted:If he can hit better than .230 and 7 home runs, he'd be better than Jason Heyward. But I don't think he could field worth a lick. It's too late to turn him into even a competent outfielder...
Well I don't think last season was Heywards true talent level. He usually was hitting 270 with like 15 hr or so and is not at an age were you would expect a big decline yet barring injury. I think Heyward will be around his career norms again this season, he just had a terrible year.
Among all position players in MLB Heyward was 5th in WAR in both 2014 and 2015. And he is still 4 or 5 years younger than Tim Tebow. He has also made an All Star game and won some gold glove awards in his young career. Hopefully last year will be his worst hitting year.
PGStaff posted:Among all position players in MLB Heyward was 5th in WAR in both 2014 and 2015. And he is still 4 or 5 years younger than Tim Tebow. He has also made an All Star game and won some gold glove awards in his young career. Hopefully last year will be his worst hitting year.
Players have off years. Thanks for pointing that out.
He also, with his experience, helped his team win a WS.
TT has no clue what its like to be in a mlb clubhouse. How can anyone bring up their names in the same sentence?
I have litte respect for the Mets organization.
Dominik85 posted:hsbaseball101 posted:If he can hit better than .230 and 7 home runs, he'd be better than Jason Heyward. But I don't think he could field worth a lick. It's too late to turn him into even a competent outfielder...
Well I don't think last season was Heywards true talent level. He usually was hitting 270 with like 15 hr or so and is not at an age were you would expect a big decline yet barring injury. I think Heyward will be around his career norms again this season, he just had a terrible year.
He had a terrible year, just like Harper. But both were starters throughout the season. Only in MLB does that happen. If an NBA or NFL star is struggling he'll be benched fairly quickly. So if Tebow can be a little bit impressive in the minors, he'll get his shot and he'll have earned it, and he'll be a starter for at least 1 season whether he hits .280 or .200.