I think the guest versus no guest is a wash.
Without a guest player rule a team would have to carry at least 3 more pitchers on their roster during the regular season. This in and of itself would present problems - those pitchers would need work during the regular season which would take away innings from the "regular" pitchers. You can't put those guys on a shelf for two months and then bring them out come tournament time.
The other aspect is that most good pitchers are also good position players. Most of these guys would not be content with pitching their 5-7 innings per week - they would need and deserve time in the field.
I really think those that do not like "guest" players really aren't thinking about what not having that rule would do to their teams during the regular season. If that rule were dropped most summer teams would have to have rosters increase substantially which would reduce playing time (including innings pitched by the pitchers) for EVERYONE. I am assuming of course that the coach would put together a roster designed for winning multiple AABC tournaments to get to the World Series.
Overall, after reading everyone's posts about guest players I have to believe that in the final analysis this rule actually provides MORE playing time (at least during the regular season) for more kids.
Maybe that's why wise men long before we had boys reach this level put this rule in.
I SECOND
quote:What I agreed with is -- if the player and the parents are ok, before the season starts, with the scenario of their kid playing on a team with 20 members on it then it's alright in my book. At least they are on that team for the season.
I respectfully disagree that H&U is supporting carrying a huge roster. I think his point is that adding players for year-end play is ok if the team policy was established up front.
In either case, it's all good.
PD,
Your are correct concerning the point I was trying to make.
Your are correct concerning the point I was trying to make.
Is it impossible for a team to survive the season ending tourney without extra players? Or is it just insurance being bought in trying to ensure a ring?
Adding players is a ticklish thing. To me, even more so when adding position players. I have seen this completely ruin a team's chemistry and send a team home early.
Unless there have been injuries, etc. that have created a true shortage of position players, I just can't see adding them.
Adding a pitcher or two in the interest of protecting arms, perhaps. But if there is an adequate number of pitchers on the team already I'm not too keen on it. Not adding them does demand that your pitchers have good outings.
If some teams pick up pitchers and others don't, it obviously can create an unlevel playing field.
In the interest of full disclosure: Texan son has "guested" with other teams on several occasions.
Adding players is a ticklish thing. To me, even more so when adding position players. I have seen this completely ruin a team's chemistry and send a team home early.
Unless there have been injuries, etc. that have created a true shortage of position players, I just can't see adding them.
Adding a pitcher or two in the interest of protecting arms, perhaps. But if there is an adequate number of pitchers on the team already I'm not too keen on it. Not adding them does demand that your pitchers have good outings.
If some teams pick up pitchers and others don't, it obviously can create an unlevel playing field.
In the interest of full disclosure: Texan son has "guested" with other teams on several occasions.
Hey Surething. Doesn't seem to be many ball players on here, just a bunch of Dad's.
quote:Originally posted by The Beast:
Hey Surething. Doesn't seem to be many ball players on here, just a bunch of Dad's.
Beast, my kid lurks here and usually goes to Players only area to post if he posts at all. I know other players also lurk instead of post.
And don't forget OBN and the rest of the serious baseball moms.
Guest players should be allowed in the sense............................
Summer ball is all about getting to the "next level" anyway right?
I thought winning and losing didn't matter nor did team outcomes.
It's all about getting kids to the elusive "next level".
Maybe that pick-up pitcher gets a Big VII offer vs. the that JUCO offer he already had due to pick up performances.
Yippee,
that's what summer is all about from what I read. Getting kids that "next level" opportunity.
Please, someone put me to pasture.
Summer ball is all about getting to the "next level" anyway right?
I thought winning and losing didn't matter nor did team outcomes.
It's all about getting kids to the elusive "next level".
Maybe that pick-up pitcher gets a Big VII offer vs. the that JUCO offer he already had due to pick up performances.
Yippee,
that's what summer is all about from what I read. Getting kids that "next level" opportunity.
Please, someone put me to pasture.
Ken,
Your sniffing tooo many dirty diapers.......it can be toxic to the brain, takes about 18 years for a parent to get a clear brain again just in time for them to walk out the door......
Your sniffing tooo many dirty diapers.......it can be toxic to the brain, takes about 18 years for a parent to get a clear brain again just in time for them to walk out the door......
Meatsdad,
Right you are, lots and lots of Mom's on here and active ones like:
Collikar
Momandcpa
Melynda
Baseballmom
Ormom
Hintite
Splitter7
NRPmom
lovethatbaseball
just to name a few.....lots of us out there following the game and our boys...
Right you are, lots and lots of Mom's on here and active ones like:
Collikar
Momandcpa
Melynda
Baseballmom
Ormom
Hintite
Splitter7
NRPmom
lovethatbaseball
just to name a few.....lots of us out there following the game and our boys...
Originally quoted by Train:
So again, I say whats wrong hearing the truth IMO? Speaking the truth allows future players/parents the ability to make a good decision versus being lied/sold to.
I am sorry upsetting most of you on this site but those that challenge me time after time are posters that just go with the flow instead of making a difference or at least try to. I try to be a leader and most of you do not like it. I hate butt kissers. Speak the truth even if it hurts. Kids need to grow up instead of making them all believe they are going to D1 schools and then MLB.
TRAIN OUT
Another mature quote by Train:
DTIGER....darn right he was not. I am glad someone cleared that up.
DBAT GM....outed???? Get real......I have many friends in here too and they dont work for me!
Its gonna take a lot more than that to get rid of me.
Interesting though, and very appreciatitive, how many have come to my defense. People know I am right and too many times people are just afraid to open their mouths cause the politics kick in.
TRAINS back and have many new friends in Ringer1, knowitall, and bleacherbumin!!
Originally quoted by ThrowinCheese:
Train,
If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you were 10 years old. I think you need to do some growing up. Better late than never I suppose.
TC
Train's response to above quote by ThrowinCheese:
Throwupincheese...."GROW UP" I look at your picture and just laugh! I think you need to release the cheese!
Now, here's what I have to say to you:
So.....you can dish out all your so-called "truth" you ramble on about all the time........but you have a real hard time taking it in return. Grow up!
TC
So again, I say whats wrong hearing the truth IMO? Speaking the truth allows future players/parents the ability to make a good decision versus being lied/sold to.
I am sorry upsetting most of you on this site but those that challenge me time after time are posters that just go with the flow instead of making a difference or at least try to. I try to be a leader and most of you do not like it. I hate butt kissers. Speak the truth even if it hurts. Kids need to grow up instead of making them all believe they are going to D1 schools and then MLB.
TRAIN OUT
Another mature quote by Train:
DTIGER....darn right he was not. I am glad someone cleared that up.
DBAT GM....outed???? Get real......I have many friends in here too and they dont work for me!
Its gonna take a lot more than that to get rid of me.
Interesting though, and very appreciatitive, how many have come to my defense. People know I am right and too many times people are just afraid to open their mouths cause the politics kick in.
TRAINS back and have many new friends in Ringer1, knowitall, and bleacherbumin!!
Originally quoted by ThrowinCheese:
Train,
If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you were 10 years old. I think you need to do some growing up. Better late than never I suppose.
TC
Train's response to above quote by ThrowinCheese:
Throwupincheese...."GROW UP" I look at your picture and just laugh! I think you need to release the cheese!
Now, here's what I have to say to you:
So.....you can dish out all your so-called "truth" you ramble on about all the time........but you have a real hard time taking it in return. Grow up!
TC
Hey OBN, what do I have to do to make the list of moms??? I even started a topic that has had 115 replys! Just kidding. I really enjoy reading your posts, always inciteful and usually humorous.
quote:...lots and lots of Mom's on here...
lots of us out there following the game and our boys...
You better believe there are! Thanks OBN for posting before I could get to it!
43momma,
I knew I would leave someone off the list,,,,,,,,darn this menopause............
(what is the statue of limitations for the menopause excuse I used up the PMS excuse years ago?)
I have been meaning to send you a welcome, but I am way tooo late on that you are up to 21 posts now.............WELCOME and I will remember you next time there is a call for us mom's...
I knew I would leave someone off the list,,,,,,,,darn this menopause............
(what is the statue of limitations for the menopause excuse I used up the PMS excuse years ago?) I have been meaning to send you a welcome, but I am way tooo late on that you are up to 21 posts now.............WELCOME and I will remember you next time there is a call for us mom's...
43, gotta concur with obn on missing the boat on welcoming you!
We're always happy to have new posters, especially moms!
We're always happy to have new posters, especially moms!
Thanks OBN and collikar, I am reletively new. Obviously, you both know your baseball quite well. I have learned so much from this forum, and hey, I totally understand about the Menopause excuse...I'm getting good at that myself. If we keep talking like this, the guys will make us post at the Ladies Only forum!HA
OK, since PD said he was goin to shut down the thread today I thought I would say one last thing about the guest players. I understand that it is allowed under the rules of AABC to allow guest players to join a roster. People don't have to like it but it is allowed and teams will continue to do it. I also understand that even though there are teams that utilize this rule there are teams that take the team they've played with all season. With that being said there is no right answer since both are within the rules. It just depends on what your coach decides to do when it comes to that point in the season. As you've read through the posts you can probably assume that a majority of the people on here have the opinion of "dance with the one that brung ya". But you can't deny one thing, the teams that win the championships are the ones that pick up the players. I think it really comes down to the question of, how important is it to win this tournament? Really not a big deal in my book since now their are 1000 different championships you can win. That's my opinion.
I appreciate the fact that we can all get on this forum and broadcast our opinions. Hopefully nobody gets their feelings hurt or their egos bruised by anything I have said. But I appreciate everyone listening to what I have to say.
I appreciate the fact that we can all get on this forum and broadcast our opinions. Hopefully nobody gets their feelings hurt or their egos bruised by anything I have said. But I appreciate everyone listening to what I have to say.
Ringer1 -- I have appreciated your feedback. As I mentioned early in the discussion, I understand both points of view ---- and I know you do as well.
Your "second" to crawdad's post on 8/18 seemed to indicate that you had changed your view on the subject --- at least to a small degree. Or maybe I misunderstood your reply. I agree with crawdad, and others, that it is not good idea to carry a 20-man roster all year. I think that introduces too many playing-time challenges to the coaches. And I think it is hard to get innings for 13 pitchers. In showcase tournaments, it is hard to showcase more than 6 guys in 4 games, while trying to make it to the pseudo championships.
In any case, if there are others that still want to post, I will leave the discussion open for a day or two. Not much going on here anyway, eh?
Your "second" to crawdad's post on 8/18 seemed to indicate that you had changed your view on the subject --- at least to a small degree. Or maybe I misunderstood your reply. I agree with crawdad, and others, that it is not good idea to carry a 20-man roster all year. I think that introduces too many playing-time challenges to the coaches. And I think it is hard to get innings for 13 pitchers. In showcase tournaments, it is hard to showcase more than 6 guys in 4 games, while trying to make it to the pseudo championships.
In any case, if there are others that still want to post, I will leave the discussion open for a day or two. Not much going on here anyway, eh?
John G.
Member
Posted August 18, 2006 12:45 PM
1. I feel adding players should NOT be allowed for any tournament.
2. You should have a deep roster that doesn't need help.
3. If you do add players let everyone know thier role up front.
This is my personal advice and should be discarded or considered as such, nothing more or nothing less.
Posts: 56 | Location: DFW | Registered: July 24, 2006
Ed Sir
Member
Posted August 18, 2006 12:49 PM
"Man Law"
Posts: 12 | Location: in front of the computer | Registered: May 11, 2006
I was actually "seconding" the Man Law.
Member
Posted August 18, 2006 12:45 PM
1. I feel adding players should NOT be allowed for any tournament.
2. You should have a deep roster that doesn't need help.
3. If you do add players let everyone know thier role up front.
This is my personal advice and should be discarded or considered as such, nothing more or nothing less.
Posts: 56 | Location: DFW | Registered: July 24, 2006
Ed Sir
Member
Posted August 18, 2006 12:49 PM
"Man Law"
Posts: 12 | Location: in front of the computer | Registered: May 11, 2006
I was actually "seconding" the Man Law.
Gotcha -- I missed the Budweiser reference.
Rules can be rules, but what really matters is the people at the top making the proper/ethical decisions.
Please refer to my post on Youth pitch counts.
Please refer to my post on Youth pitch counts.