Texas Baseball ...Simply the Best

For the record, I have never played a regular season game in the major leagues and never claimed to. (Did pinch hit for Pudge in Cooperstown during the Hall of Fame Game and got booooooooeed. )

And I have enjoyed dialogue with you as well. I am so sad to see it must stop. Oh well, I guess all good things come to an end sooner or later.

During all of this banter a post was overlooked and I would like to send out my CONGRATS to the 17U Patriots!!! What a great Run and we are proud of you!



[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diablo con Huevos:
This just in (from a website):
Dallas Patriots 17u Finish 2nd in the World Series!

The Dallas Patriots 17 finished the season as the 2nd ranked team in the World for the 17u age group, losing in the championship game on a walk-off homerun. The Patriots 17 team had an incredible year winning the AABC State/Regional Tournament as well as finishing 2nd in the BBI 18u division.

quote:

Originally posted by Train:
DTIGER....darn right he was not. I am glad someone cleared that up.

DBAT GM....outed???? Get real......I have many friends in here too and they dont work for me!

Its gonna take a lot more than that to get rid of me.

Interesting though, and very appreciatitive, how many have come to my defense. People know I am right and too many times people are just afraid to open their mouths cause the politics kick in.

TRAINS back and have many new friends in Ringer1, knowitall, and bleacherbumin!!

Train,

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought you were 10 years old. I think you need to do some growing up. Better late than never I suppose.

TC

Just after skimming these latest posts... most have nothing to do with baseball... they have to do with egos, opinions, and how you feel about how they are expressed by others.

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
Just after skimming these latest posts... most have nothing to do with baseball... they have to do with egos, opinions, and how you feel about how they are expressed by others.

So.......what's the problem Dtiger? That's what this is all about ain't it?

I would think your joking... in a way. PD help me out, but this is a spot for BASEBALL... If everyone loves baseball on here, and everyone wants the best for the kids, then why can't we get along?

quote:

Originally posted by Dtiger:
I would think your joking... in a way. PD help me out, but this is a spot for BASEBALL... If everyone loves baseball on here, and everyone wants the best for the kids, then why can't we get along?

I was joking D...........most of us need to lighten up.....just a tad bit.

It's threads like these that are chasing good people away from this message board. And our kids will be worse off for it as the board is a source of information and education for many.

DTiger, I'll let it run its course -- I hope people wake up soon. If I shut it down, there will be accusations of censorship. I wonder if it would help to ask the question, "how has your contribution benefited others here or promoted HS baseball?"......naaaa.

Sorry you have to be one of the most mature posters at times, Kyle.

Peace.

I know we're supposed to be talking baseball but I just have to continue this for a second because I'm fascinated...

Ken, so when your kid is in school and you go to a parent teacher conference should the teacher with 20 years experience accept your comments, thoughts and opinions as valid? If you happen to be a teacher, insert some other profession like doctor, dentist, psychologist, etc., and ask the same question, should your comments be valid to them or are you just noise they have to tolerate?

Don't apologize. I guess I hope through setting a good example some will learn. I am not calling anyone stupid, but I try my best to disagree respectfully which sometimes becomes a problem.

Instead of dismissing everyones opinions if they have a certain background, why don't some of the posters let the opinions from different backgrounds help better shapen (is that a word) your own opinion. Disagreemtents can lead to great things... now here is where I should name a few... ya I'm not going to (History class starts tomorrow).

There are these things called Personal/Private Messages... maybe all these issues could go on in those???

Since the post is about views on picking up kids for CMWS or MMWS, etc...If a coach were to pick up pitchers, and all they did was pitch, isn't that helping to give your team insurance for your regular rotation that might be having an off game? Not replacing any position players, just pitching.

I think if the coach handles it on an as needed/when needed basis, it can help the team to achieve their goal of winning the whole enchilada. That, and if there is good communication between coach and players, and players and parents, as to expectations, then there doesn't have to be conflict.

Oh, and Congrats to the Patriots! Great job! With or with out extra help.



(reshape, DTiger)

Collikar


I like the way you think!!!

Colliker,

Great post. Right on target.

End way to end the thread.

Let's let it end!!!

PD Go ahead and pull the plug on this one, no reasonable person will cry censorship.!!!

In regard to "guest players", I am FOR guest players under the following circumstances:

1. The guest players do not take any playing time from my son. Or...
2. My son is the guest player.

If the above two criteria are not met then I am totally against guest players.

crawdad -- you had the guts to say what some of us were thinking!

PD......I've been seeing this new avatar for several days now........WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?! It looks like something a dog left behind in the yard to me!

Throwupincheese...."GROW UP" I look at your picture and just laugh! I think you need to release the cheese!

KG....I still like your posts but agree with Krace4 sometimes parents dont care about the pro perspective since most of them are over paid premadonnas!

MeatsDad your a great guy! Cam will recover and be fine!

So closing this topic of adding players...I think it was a great topic!!! Coaches want to win, players want to play, and parents want their kid to play. With that said 2/3 of posters say do not add players to any team if you make the playoff run. The additions to a team is not a clear reflection of what would have happened. A perfect example is last years MMWS run by us. If we did not add a few players (see I did not mention names PD )I am not sure if we would have pulled it out with the extra hitting and pitching we added. Happy we won but rather have seen us do it the old fashion way and earn it!

I think it's a snarling, clawing panther. Either that or the Burger King guy.I don't have my glasses on.

It is indeed a snarling, clawing panther. Good eye, Krace.

Train, there is something I'll agree with you with. The players the Tigers picked up last year played vitale roles throughout Houston and then Mckinney. One kid saved the game in the last inning. I think each year pick up players help out the team to a great deal. Here's a variation of the question: What if the pick up player was from the same organization? Does it change anything? Like you add a DBAT-er with the DBAT team or a Tiger added to a Tiger team.

The "guest player" issue is one that I am very familiar with since my son Brian was picked up by the Tigers last year as a guest player for the MMWS (he pitched one complete game). I will say that the parents and players treated my son like he had been on the team all year.

They turned what could have been an uncomfortable situation into a very good one.
If anyone did not want him there they did not show it.

I think that as long as the rules allow it a coach must add players since everyone else is doing it also. I think Linty did a great job in adding two players to our team for the Regional at TCU. Without one of them we would not have won the first game.

Still, I would have no problem with the elimination of the guest player rule. The adjustment to be made would have to be the addition of at least 2-3 more pitchers on the regular season roster for each team. That would be hard to do (that means that at least 12 teams in the DFW area would be trying to add 2-3 pitchers each - is there that many extra pitchers lying around not doing anything) but it could be done.

My point is this - the "guest player" rule has pros and cons. But since there IS a guest player rule in effect in AABC most of the teams are structured to use that rule to their benefit (in other words they are usually a little thin on pitching during the regular season). Eliminating that rule would be OK it would just mean that the teams would have to re-think their rosters to make up for the loss of the guest players that they count on come tournament time.

Bottom line - no one should criticize a coach for using guest players as long as the rules allow it. To do otherwise would mean going to the tournaments with no realistic chance of winning. Every great coach that I have ever known is going to do ANYTHING that the rules allow to win. If he doesn't have that attitude then I don't want my kid playing for him.

Is there ANYTHING worth reading on this site that has nothing to do with PITCHERS or TIGERS, DBAT OR MUSTGANG teams???? Last time I checked it takes 9 players to make a team, but it seems we only hear about pitching pitching pitching and very few teams other than the ones i mentioned. I agree and thought this site was for baseball players NOT ticked off parents and a few teams. Please can we get on with the important stuff that will benefit all Players and teams.

quote:

Originally posted by surething:
Please can we get on with the important stuff that will benefit all Players and teams.

By all means. Feel free to start a new thread on a new topic.

The coach should only add a player for injured players. Otherwise, none should be added. If a player is added without losing an original player it takes playing time away from someone else on the team. Maybe even your son. If you're ok with that your putting way too much emphasis on winning than you are on your son.

I have always felt there is too much emphasis on winning the end of the year tournaments. That is, with teams adding players to win the dang things. As I've said before - it cheapens the feat. It has a win at all cost feel to it. You put your kid in select ball to play against the best competition to get him ready for college ball. In that case, I want my kid on the bump instead of the pick up player. Win or lose, it's all in the experience and being put in the position to fail or succeed. If your son's chance was passed up because the pick up player got the nod. Then your son failed without even a chance to succeed in that situation. JMO

Ringer, you are missing my point...

If the rules ALLOW guest players then the coach should do everything he can within the rules to win including using guest players as needed.

Name me one other type of baseball where the coach does NOT use every rule possible to win - High School, college, the pros??? I doubt it.

My point was that guest players ARE in the rules. Therefore they should be used. I would NOT have any problem at all changing the rule and not allowing guest players but you seem to be advocating not using guest players even though that is in the rule book. Ain't gonna happen.

Believe me if you son plays in college he is going to face many more and much more serious "threats" to his playing time than a couple of guest players in the summer. If you think there is too much emphasis on winning select tournaments then you will be shocked when you are exposed to the "win at all costs" world of college baseball. News Flash - your son's college coach is trying to add players every year through the recruiting process to replace your son (from the coaches' point of view to improve the team). Better tell your son that he had better make sure that he is always the best choice to put on the field because he is always going to have to fight to keep someone from taking his job. I've got a son playing D-1 college football and I can tell you that you have not seen "cut throat" until you get up there.

Like it or not, competition is part of sports and the higher level you go the better and more intense the competition.

crawdad -- I agree. I have heard some say that "we would not have won without the guest players". From my point of view, that is difficult to determine. Perhaps a kid would have stepped up and pitched/hit/fielded the game of his life...even beyond his regular season performance. Guest players helped DBAT win the MMWS -- but I think (how can you know for sure?) that we could have won it without them. I appreciate the fact that they joined us -- for one, they are great kids....secondly, they made the team stronger. I enjoyed meeting their parents -- our kids enjoyed playing with the guest players. All of the MMWS teams had guest players. The Trombly pitcher in the first game against DBAT was a guest player. As crawdad said, it is part of the game and it can be argued that a manager is obligated to do what he can to help his team finish strong. I don't think it is necessary to devalue the role of the regular season players when new kids are added. EVERY ONE of the DBAT players contributed to the success of the team in 2006 -- no exceptions!

Texan -- I agree. If you don't want to partipate in a particular discussion, feel free to let others handle it. We all welcome the chance to warp participate in new topics.

Ringer1 -- as I said earlier, I understand your point of view. As we have seen in this discussion, many feel the same way. But a kid is not a failure if his team or his particular role is supplimented by guest players. The decision we make as to where PantherSon plays is not influenced by our management's stance on guest players -- one way or the other.

If no one objects, I'm going to close this topic on Monday morning -- unless it appears to have life left in it.

Thanks everyone for expressing your views.

What is better, adding a few guest players for year end tournaments help or a team carrying 20 players throughout the season? For all the people on here worrying about their kids playing time, it would seem to be a lot less if a team carried 20 players for the year instead of adding a few at the end.

As long as the team players support it, and coaches are upfront from the beginning that players may be added at the end of the year, I see nothing wrong with it.

This has been a great debate, I have enjoyed everyones's opinion. There are some I have agreed with and others I have not and others that I found very amusing. This topic is like religon or politics, people have strong opinions either way. But I have grown tired of this debate and will look for another topic to waste my workday with

PD,
There is no way DBAT 16's could have won MMWS this year without the guest players!

YOU KNOW I'M KIDDING RIGHT?

quote:

Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
What is better, adding a few guest players for year end tournaments help or a team carrying 20 players throughout the season? For all the people on here worrying about their kids playing time, it would seem to be a lot less if a team carried 20 players for the year instead of adding a few at the end.

As long as the team players support it, and coaches are upfront from the beginning that players may be added at the end of the year, I see nothing wrong with it.

quote:

Originally posted by honest and unbiased:
PD,
There is no way DBAT 16's could have won MMWS this year without the guest players!

YOU KNOW I'M KIDDING RIGHT?

Sad to say but they will never know! Sorry PD but it's true.

Ringer1 -- I think I made that point clear in my earlier post --- no, we will never know. But, to me, it is not a "lesser" championship because we had guest players. Also, you don't support the idea of guest players but you agree 100% with H&U's post which supports the practice?

Thanks for your opinion, H&U -- not that this guest-player issue ever had an impact on any of Tant's teams!!!! Shame we have to type "YOU KNOW I'M KIDDING, RIGHT?" often here.

Another thing you might consider is that the team that picks up a player has advanced farther than the team the player was picked up from. So maybe the player being picked up is not only wanted by the team for the post-season but also for next summer and is being given a taste of what it's like to play on a winning team?

To the victor go the spoils as they say.... Players are often added as a strategy in the the recruiting process to get the player into the organization.

Might also consider that the players on a team will often make a case for the coaches to pick up a particular player from another team.

DBAT GM .. You know I smelled that coming a mile away. considering you used one of our players.

quote:

Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Ringer1 -- I think I made that point clear in my earlier post --- no, we will never know. But, to me, it is not a "lesser" championship because we had guest players. Also, you don't support the idea of guest players but you agree 100% with H&U's post which supports the practice?

Thanks for your opinion, H&U -- not that this guest-player issue ever had an impact on any of Tant's teams!!!! Shame we have to type "YOU KNOW I'M KIDDING, RIGHT?" often here.

What I agreed with is -- if the player and the parents are ok, before the season starts, with the scenario of their kid playing on a team with 20 members on it then it's alright in my book. At least they are on that team for the season.

quote:

Originally posted by John G.:
DBAT GM .. You know I smelled that coming a mile away. considering you used one of our players.

Consider him as good as gone!


JK You must be talking about one of our younger teams because our team didn't pick up anybody for post-season. Maybe we should have...?

Part of this forum is for others to learn from someone elses mistakes... I can tell you as a coach our team every year has tried to keep our roster as small as possible so that our players recieved as much playing time as possible. having 11-12 committed players at the younger ages (10-14) we almost never encountered problems with having a short roster.

last summer as 15's we went to a 13 person roster with only a few glitches from conflicts. This summer (2006) after much debate, we decided 13 was perfect, after all everyone seemed highly committed to showing up for every event. (We did release one player and add a new one) We told two productive pitchers/players who guested in the fall to find another team. (we did this because we didn't want to have too much sitting)
Just before our season starts our best pitcher quits for an older team leaving us 12, we have 3 players in H.S. playoffs, and they all play into mid June. Although we do very well some of the pitchers we count on pitch, (pitch very poorly to be nice).Almost evey tournament we play in we get stretched on pitching, and as DTiger talked of his teams troubles We too had the same problems. By the time we went to the BCS finals we had two pitchers we could count on.....Now to my point/Advice.... Is is better to have too many and not need, than to need and not have.... Parents please lose the ego that wants your child to play ALL the time. thier is a lesson to be learned from sitting, most players are more focussed and perform better when they have sat a litle more than they are used to. Obviously this alloys for deeper skills and creates competition for spots but that is good too.

DISCLAIMER

This is my personal advice and should be discarded or considered as such, nothing more nothing less, It is not the gospel just My opinion...

1. I feel adding players should NOT be allowed for any tournament.

2. You should have a deep roster that doesn't need help.

3. If you do add players let everyone know thier role up front.

"Man Law"