I do not know about you but if I believe I am correct and that the stories floating around are untrue I do not sign an apology paper---apologize for what? Apologize for what I believe in !--no way in H E L L does that happen in my world and I now believe not in Coach Leach's world either.
Did you read the story that leach took the James kid only because his dad called after nobody else would take the kid ---verrrrrry interresting
quote:One things for sure doing what he believed was the right thing to do was more important than keeping his job to him.
Coach May, you are so correct....
There should be many more just like him....This guy gets my respect.....
There are other ways to handle it socal. It can be discussed, it can be negotiated. He refused to even talk to the Chancellor about it. He gave the Chancellor no choice.
He felt so strongly that was right he wouldn't even discuss it with the Chancellor of TT? That's something a pouting grade schooler does.
He felt so strongly that was right he wouldn't even discuss it with the Chancellor of TT? That's something a pouting grade schooler does.
quote:Originally posted by workinghard:quote:So are you saying that if your boss forced you to sign a letter of apology and you felt you had nothing to apologize for that you would sign it?
Yep, or risk getting fired for "insubordination" and then fight it later.
Coach, you seem to think employees are the only ones that have rights. You know, employers do as well.
Not true, I know employers have rights as well. However, I do not know you so I can not speak of your beliefs. For me though I do not lie nor will I lie. Therefore, I am not putting my signature on a document that I believe to be a lie.
quote:He refused to even talk to the Chancellor about it.
Now, I respect Leach even more....
I dont think so but thats just my opinion. Money. Football is money. Leach can bring in money. He did it at TT. But we will certainly see.
If Bobby Bowden can get ran out of town them Mike Leach can certainly land on his feet. College football is about money.
If Bobby Bowden can get ran out of town them Mike Leach can certainly land on his feet. College football is about money.
Adam James probably just hurt alot of other kids chances to get the same opportunity that he got. What do you think?
quote:Not true, I know employers have rights as well. However, I do not know you so I can not speak of your beliefs. For me though I do not lie nor will I lie. Therefore, I am not putting my signature on a document that I believe to be a lie.
....and right or wrong, it is considered insubordination and you can get fired for it. Obviously you have every right to fight it as well.
But in the meantime, the employer has the upper hand, just ask Coach Leach.
quote:Adam James probably just hurt alot of other kids chances to get the same opportunity that he got. What do you think?
There's no doubt that's true.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:quote:What makes guys like Leach so good at what they do also lands them in hot water many times with administrators.quote]
...and administrators hire.
[quote]I dont see Leach as a guy who is going to suk up to anyone for any reason.
...he's going to have to suk up to get hired. He's not in a position to demand anything.
No offense, but I think you are wrong on this one.
As socalcoach said, I don't think you really understand the big-time ($$$) college ($$$) football & basketball ($$$) landscape ($$$$$$) today.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Antz...as I understand it from the press here in Dallas, the direct order was to sign the letter of apology that also spoke to future conduct and he refused to swallow his ego and do it. So he got suspended. He then decided to sue his employer and his employer didn't seem to care for that approach.
Yes, I saw that. Sounds like some arm-twisting. He was too smart to fall for that. I'm more concerned with timing of all this. One thing that will be hard for TTU to explain away is that email which specifically says 'when we fire him after next season'. If he were still coach as of yesterday, an additional $2.4MM comes into play, to get rid of him.
You roll around in the pig pen with pigs, it's hard not to get muddy. Leach, TT, C. James and A. James were all rolling around in the mud on this one.
My son has been in college for a year and a half. I knew his college coaches for several years before he went there. I have had zero conversations with them since he went to school there. Other than hello etc.
I have no desire to either. Its his deal period.
If I were a college coach and his dad was showing up at practice , calling me , other coaches I would have sent him packing (the player and the dad.)
I bet Coach Leach if he could go back in time would have done exactly that. Quite honestly I am surprised he didnt do just that long before this incident happened.
I have no desire to either. Its his deal period.
If I were a college coach and his dad was showing up at practice , calling me , other coaches I would have sent him packing (the player and the dad.)
I bet Coach Leach if he could go back in time would have done exactly that. Quite honestly I am surprised he didnt do just that long before this incident happened.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
You roll around in the pig pen with pigs, it's hard not to get muddy. Leach, TT, C. James and A. James were all rolling around in the mud on this one.
You got that part right!
Still it appears that Craig & Adam James, TT, the AD, the chancellor are all going to end up coming out of this worse than Mike Leach. The ball seems to be rolling in their direction now and it's like a snowball going down a hill......keeps getting bigger.
Good point Husker. Like I said these type of things never end good for anyone.
quote:If I were a college coach and his dad was showing up at practice , calling me , other coaches I would have sent him packing (the player and the dad.)
I bet Coach Leach if he could go back in time would have done exactly that. Quite honestly I am surprised he didnt do just that long before this incident happened.
Most high school coaches would send him packing. I find it rather odd Leach didn't...and to me that's a hole in his story. Leach has been clear about everyone else exaggerating. You think maybe, just maybe, he is too?
Of course he is. He's the guy that told the players they were all pirates and nobody liked them.
Yes that one concerns me as well. Why didnt he send him packing? That one stumps me and causes me some concern.
Also I find it interesting that Craig James steps in for his sons well being. But he is also the guy at practice , call posistion coaches , worrying the hel out of the coaching staff about playing time.
No winners here. But I do believe Leach will come out of this much better than everyone else will. And when the TT football program goes back to being what it was before Leach heads will roll.
The fan base is going to be livid over this. Craig and Adam James will never be able to show their face anywhere near Lubbock. Not that they will want to.
Also I find it interesting that Craig James steps in for his sons well being. But he is also the guy at practice , call posistion coaches , worrying the hel out of the coaching staff about playing time.
No winners here. But I do believe Leach will come out of this much better than everyone else will. And when the TT football program goes back to being what it was before Leach heads will roll.
The fan base is going to be livid over this. Craig and Adam James will never be able to show their face anywhere near Lubbock. Not that they will want to.
quote:He's the guy that told the players they were all pirates and nobody liked them.
Maybe I've learned this in movies as I don't know any pirates personally, but pirates do tend to turn on each other and have integrity problems don't they?
It all seems very self-sering by the James' & TT, with the money deadline and all.
What about the team and all the rest of those kids? This couldn't have waited until after the bowl? Suspend the coach and then conduct the investigation? Huh? Isn't that backwards? There was no process. The James accused, coach suspended, then we'll have a formal investigation. Any conspiracy theorists out there?
What about the team and all the rest of those kids? This couldn't have waited until after the bowl? Suspend the coach and then conduct the investigation? Huh? Isn't that backwards? There was no process. The James accused, coach suspended, then we'll have a formal investigation. Any conspiracy theorists out there?
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No mystery here...
Part of managing a program at that level is being in bed with the media. The james family was the media front and center. Send the father away, send the kid away, and you are biting the hand that feeds you, and you are doing so in the press. So you suck it up, your mind gets clouded (plus you are a bit wacked to begin with) and you then do something that seems OK at the time and in retrospect was really, really stupid.
44
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No mystery here...
Part of managing a program at that level is being in bed with the media. The james family was the media front and center. Send the father away, send the kid away, and you are biting the hand that feeds you, and you are doing so in the press. So you suck it up, your mind gets clouded (plus you are a bit wacked to begin with) and you then do something that seems OK at the time and in retrospect was really, really stupid.
44.
quote:Originally posted by observer44:
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No mystery here...
Part of managing a program at that level is being in bed with the media. The james family was the media front and center. Send the father away, send the kid away, and you are biting the hand that feeds you, and you are doing so in the press. So you suck it up, your mind gets clouded (plus you are a bit wacked to begin with) and you then do something that seems OK at the time and in retrospect was really, really stupid.
.
That's a pretty good observation. Remember the old rule about burning bridges? It may make you feel better at the time but it could come back to haunt you.
Again I have to say that I like Leach for him standing by what he believes is true--- all the reports I have seen from HS on is that the James kid is spoiled rotten
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Again I have to say that I like Leach for him standing by what he believes is true--- all the reports I have seen from HS on is that the James kid is spoiled rotten
The reports we have gotten would have you believe that he was not the Red Raider role model...but IMO this thing was a group effort, IMO, more than enough blame to go around.....the perfect storm...just one link (dad, player, coach, program, admin) acts a bit more responsibly and this is not an issue...
44.
Does anyone else find it hard to imagine that Craig James, totally immersed in the sports world, who not all that many years ago played college ball, called the coach repeatedly over "playing time"?
It's hard to prove a negative so how does James prove that he didn't, but I'd like to see James' phone bills with Texas Tech football coaches' numbers on them before I believe there were repeated calls about playing time.
According to Texas Tech stats on line, James played in all 12 games before the Bowl game.
This whole thing is an ugly mess. It might have been hard to do, but I'd respect Leach more if he had taken the high road in this sordid affair just once. Has he been an effective coach? Obviously, yes. Do I care one bit for his personality? Nope, an ego maniac.
It's hard to prove a negative so how does James prove that he didn't, but I'd like to see James' phone bills with Texas Tech football coaches' numbers on them before I believe there were repeated calls about playing time.
According to Texas Tech stats on line, James played in all 12 games before the Bowl game.
This whole thing is an ugly mess. It might have been hard to do, but I'd respect Leach more if he had taken the high road in this sordid affair just once. Has he been an effective coach? Obviously, yes. Do I care one bit for his personality? Nope, an ego maniac.
It's amazing, so much reported and countered from both sides. Now, local news is reporting that the Leach camp mis-quoted and used comments out of context from TTU trainer Pincok and TTU Physician Dr. Phy. Also, they have clarified it was for hours.
New Leach Docs...
Also, in keeping with Cap'n Mike's M.O., it is now the trainer's fault, he's saying he did not order the CODE Shed.... Go figure.
GED10DaD
New Leach Docs...
Also, in keeping with Cap'n Mike's M.O., it is now the trainer's fault, he's saying he did not order the CODE Shed.... Go figure.
GED10DaD
quote:Originally posted by hokieone:
Does anyone else find it hard to imagine that Craig James, totally immersed in the sports world, who not all that many years ago played college ball, called the coach repeatedly over "playing time"?
No. It fits James' reputation.
quote:It's hard to prove a negative so how does James prove that he didn't, but I'd like to see James' phone bills with Texas Tech football coaches' numbers on them before I believe there were repeated calls about playing time.
Remember, that information was made public first by position coaches, not Leach.
We're still weeks away from the whole story. Be patient.
quote:We're still weeks away from the whole story. Be patient.
I'm not so sure we will every get the whole truth Jimmy. The spin doctors do a pretty amazing job when it comes to these kind of things. Plus, some will only see what they want to see, they never let facts get in the way!
Actually, it was reported on twitter by several of the TTU player's lil' fat girfriends!quote:...that information was made public first by position coaches...
quote:Originally posted by GunEmDown10:
It's amazing, so much reported and countered from both sides. Now, local news is reporting that the Leach camp mis-quoted and used comments out of context from TTU trainer Pincok and TTU Physician Dr. Phy. Also, they have clarified it was for hours.
New Leach Docs...
Also, in keeping with Cap'n Mike's M.O., it is now the trainer's fault, he's saying he did not order the CODE Shed.... Go figure.
GED10DaD
"Paper lay still, they can write anything on it"
Wonder HOW much pressure was put on these two folks, IF they wanted to keep their jobs?
Bottom-line, the truth will always surface and the man above knows what the truth is as well as Coach Leach, The James Family and the administration.
Look at the history folks, it will tell you a lot!
For those currently watching the Alamo Bowl game between Texas Tech and Michigan State, Adam James' jersey number is #82.
Questions:
1. Given potential security/safety issues, is Adam James at the Alamo Bowl?
2. Will the Texas Tech coaches put him in the game?
Honestly, if he goes in, I would expect him to endure boos from tens of thousands at the game.
One interesting note from James' listing on the TT roster: "offered scholarships by Boston College, Mississippi, Tulsa and Wisconsin." I was under the impression that no schools had offered him a scholarship.
Questions:
1. Given potential security/safety issues, is Adam James at the Alamo Bowl?
2. Will the Texas Tech coaches put him in the game?
Honestly, if he goes in, I would expect him to endure boos from tens of thousands at the game.
One interesting note from James' listing on the TT roster: "offered scholarships by Boston College, Mississippi, Tulsa and Wisconsin." I was under the impression that no schools had offered him a scholarship.
ESPN just reported that he will not play tonight due to his concussion. He is standing on the sidelines with the team.
He is not playing tonight. He is not dressed due to lingering effects of the concussion. He was just shown on the sidelines wearing his jersey.
I just don't know what to believe any more!
There are so many false reports!
There are so many false reports!
lil' fat girlfriends??
Is "lil' fat" a player???
Is "lil' fat" a player???
All sides acted like five year olds. All parties involved got what they wanted and deserved,ten fold. You make you bed, you lay in it.
Coach Leach will come out just fine. Most people nowadays don't care about anything but $$$ (winning). He is out of the TTech situation, probably make more of said $$$, and his new ad will be intimidated.
The AD and Chancellor at TTech are done. Even if they weather the storm; not a enviable position to be in.
They asked for it!
I feel for the rest of the team, especially the Seniors.
Coach Leach will come out just fine. Most people nowadays don't care about anything but $$$ (winning). He is out of the TTech situation, probably make more of said $$$, and his new ad will be intimidated.
The AD and Chancellor at TTech are done. Even if they weather the storm; not a enviable position to be in.
They asked for it!
I feel for the rest of the team, especially the Seniors.
Leach may come out fine. We'll see. I'm not sure how many big-time universities will be looking for a guy who punished an injured player with questionable discipline methods, strong-armed medical personnel to back him (notice how the stories from the trainer and doctor are much different once they were asked to give sworn, signed statements), refused to discuss the issue with his bosses, and sued the school that employed him. Many schools will now regard him as radioactive, at least as a head coach. Who wants to hire a guy to run a program who thinks he has to answer to no one? I can see him being an OC maybe.
As for TTU, the players seem to be doing fine without him. They're battling tonight in a good effort, not showing effects of losing Leach, and a number of them have issued strong statements of support for Adam James. The school also may end up hiring a big-name guy like Tommy Tuberville. It doesn't appear to me that they're torn apart by Leach's dismissal.
As for TTU, the players seem to be doing fine without him. They're battling tonight in a good effort, not showing effects of losing Leach, and a number of them have issued strong statements of support for Adam James. The school also may end up hiring a big-name guy like Tommy Tuberville. It doesn't appear to me that they're torn apart by Leach's dismissal.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
He is not playing tonight. He is not dressed due to lingering effects of the concussion. He was just shown on the sidelines wearing his jersey.
And he's wearing a wool cap in a dome. Not many teammates around him. I can't believe he showed up. I guess he figures he's a big part of next year's plans.
Sorry Antz-
Don't know the boy other than what I have read, I'm sure like you. But I see plenty of folks talking to him. I think the wool cap is a non-issue.
Don't know the boy other than what I have read, I'm sure like you. But I see plenty of folks talking to him. I think the wool cap is a non-issue.
Some in Dallas have firsthand knowledge of Craig James meddling on behalf of his son Adam in baseball. When he was 17 Adam was cut loose from his summer team for this very reason.
And that is exactly what Mike Leach should have done in this situation - cut him.
And that is exactly what Mike Leach should have done in this situation - cut him.