Thank you Dog.
Ichiro home run: advance to about 1:12 (unless you like hearing all those coffee-crazed Mariner fans) 
Ichiro walk off
not the best view but if you stop it in several places it is fun to watch this master work.
Ichiro walk off
not the best view but if you stop it in several places it is fun to watch this master work.
quote:Originally posted by BlueRidgeBandit:
Relationships between the athletes lower half and the trajectry of the swing is really what is at issue here, if you take a young athlete or weak player they will have a tendency to drop the bat head upon launch, there for leading to upwards travel at contact. Now if you have a mature hitter and they still have those habits one can adjust the path of the swing to a more down ward approach and actually get the swing to come thru on a plane that makes contact on the downwrd path of the swing thus producing a ball with the desired backspin.
The real problem is when you instruct a hitter to swing down tru the ball and they don't stay down with their legs, striding foward and coming to the frontside and swinging down will only drive the ball into the ground, but if the hitter will stay back and sit down on the back leg then the swing will actually plane out to the pitch if done right.
The actual result desired will determined the approach taken, a linedrive hitter will try to stay over the ball, where as a home run hitter will try to get loft in their swing, either way your approach will determine your result, I have seen many a hitter misws hit a linedrive approach and hit a HR due to the backspin and how hard they struck the ball, and have also seen many a hitter swing out of their shoes trying to jack the ball over the fence to hit a bleeder to the infield.
If I'm not mistaken Ichiro would have a drive down tru the ball swing and he has more hits than anyone in baseball over the last 10 yrs or so, and if you go back in time guys like Mike Schimt, Hank Aaron and Johnny Bench made contact with the ball on the down part of their swing, thus producing the backspin drive thaqt them HOF.
To each his own I say, but I will continue to teach my hitters to hit the top of the ball to stay over it and live with the results when they miss low.
I disagree. I don't agree that the approach to teaching batters how to hit is with teaching them to swing downwards on a ball trying to create backspin. I believe the approach needs to be teaching kids to hit the ball "square". Almost every professional slugger in the major leagues hits the ball both square and on the upwards part of the bat path. Significantly, the best batters in the league tend to hit more balls into the air rather than on the ground like Ichiro. Ichiro has a great average due in large part to his running ability and batting from the right side and thus closer to first base. You will note that they don't use him in the position to drive in runs- he is not a pure hitter like Pujols or Chipper Jones. He is just fast and is able to beat out a lot of balls that would get most batters out. He is however a great offensive power for his ability to get on base. People do not look at Ichiro for his hitting mechanics, they look at Pujols. Why? Because Pujols actually puts a charge behind balls by swinging and hitting the ball squarely out in front with the upwards part of his swing.
You go to hitting camps and they don't speak of Ichiro's mechanics, no, they speak of Pujols mechanics.
So how would you teach a quick little lefty to swing, especially one that unlike Ichiro doesn't have surprising power for his size?
I've got no problem with squareing it up but I'd rather have that hitter's misses on the ground than in the air.
I've got no problem with squareing it up but I'd rather have that hitter's misses on the ground than in the air.
Think of it like hitting a golf ball, if that ball is on a tee you can get away with an upswing at contact,and still hit the ball some what good, but now lets put the ball on the ground and try to hit with the same swing, chanches are you will hit the ball on top back upper quadrant and send it down the fairway skipping along, what they call skulling it I think.
Now lets take an approach to the same ball on the ground with a drive down tru swing and see what happens,the ball should jump off the club with backspin and take off airborne.
You can teach anything you like but for my money I will preach batspeed and backspin and live with those results anyday. I will say that hitting a golf ball and hitting a pitched baseball are two different things but the principle is the same and to take it one step further you need to watch the "Balls" episode of Sports Science and relate the golf swing to the Baseball swing from a Kinect approach with the energy of the swing comming from the ground up, That would be my #1 Myth about the Baseball swing,that we don't focus on the kinectic chain reaction of energy tru the body starting from the ground up, but thats another point all togther.
Now lets take an approach to the same ball on the ground with a drive down tru swing and see what happens,the ball should jump off the club with backspin and take off airborne.
You can teach anything you like but for my money I will preach batspeed and backspin and live with those results anyday. I will say that hitting a golf ball and hitting a pitched baseball are two different things but the principle is the same and to take it one step further you need to watch the "Balls" episode of Sports Science and relate the golf swing to the Baseball swing from a Kinect approach with the energy of the swing comming from the ground up, That would be my #1 Myth about the Baseball swing,that we don't focus on the kinectic chain reaction of energy tru the body starting from the ground up, but thats another point all togther.
I have never been to a hitting camp and have professional hitters teaching kids to swing down through a ball or to swing down on it to create backspin. The general consensus amongst the professional batters who have been at the camps I have been to teach about staying back, exploding on the hips, and driving the bat through the zone and through the ball squarely. They teach over and over again about teaching kids to hit balls hard and to swing the bat through the zone. They teach hitting the hard line drives. They teach situational hitting. But to this point i have never had a professional hitter teach my son to swing down through a ball or to hit it so that it has backspin.
I don't care what anyone says about this or that batter who swings down on a ball, Pujols is by far the tried and true purest hitter in the world! You go to hitting camps and you hear his name over any other name more frequently. He's doing something very right and has proven over a decade the importance of squaring a ball and driving the bat through it on that upwards part of the swing.
I don't care what anyone says about this or that batter who swings down on a ball, Pujols is by far the tried and true purest hitter in the world! You go to hitting camps and you hear his name over any other name more frequently. He's doing something very right and has proven over a decade the importance of squaring a ball and driving the bat through it on that upwards part of the swing.
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
So how would you teach a quick little lefty to swing, especially one that unlike Ichiro doesn't have surprising power for his size?
I've got no problem with squareing it up but I'd rather have that hitter's misses on the ground than in the air.
5/6 defenders in the IF, and only 3 in the OF in an area 3x as big. I'm hitting it to the OF grass.
I guess the term down tru the ball is relative to the person using it, my use means to strike the ball on the downward arc of the swing just like the Harper clip as well as the Bonds and Pujols clips they all are making contact with the ball at the lowest point in the arch of their swing,my point being that you are better off making contact on the downward to upward transition than to make contact on just the upward side of the swing.
Every hitter will have their own strenghs and weakness' each one is different in their own way, you can't teach everyone the same nor expect that they all learn the same, if I have a hitter that is consistantly missing under the ball I will tell them to try and hit the top of the ball and thus work on getting the loop out of the swing, going from A to C to make contact. I don't know what else to call it other than getting over the ball and hitting it on the downward plane of the swing. If thats not the objective then why don't we all start with our hands belt high and just swing up on plane with pitch from there?
Every hitter will have their own strenghs and weakness' each one is different in their own way, you can't teach everyone the same nor expect that they all learn the same, if I have a hitter that is consistantly missing under the ball I will tell them to try and hit the top of the ball and thus work on getting the loop out of the swing, going from A to C to make contact. I don't know what else to call it other than getting over the ball and hitting it on the downward plane of the swing. If thats not the objective then why don't we all start with our hands belt high and just swing up on plane with pitch from there?
I have to disagree with "Gingerbread Man",
"Ichiro has a great average due in large part to his running ability and batting from the right side and thus closer to first base. You will note that they don't use him in the position to drive in runs- he is not a pure hitter like Pujols or Chipper Jones."
"You go to hitting camps and they don't speak of Ichiro's mechanics, no, they speak of Pujols mechanics."
I disagree, Ichiro is one of the purest hitters I have seen, he does not have a text book swing, but that doesn't mean he is not a pure hitter. His approach is to drive the ball on the ground because of his speed, being a lefty etc.... I have watched him taking batting practice and he can drive the ball out of the park with the best of them if he chose to, but that is not his approach. He is not a big guy but somehow can generate a lot of power if need be. His role is to get on base, not hit home runs.
"Ichiro has a great average due in large part to his running ability and batting from the right side and thus closer to first base. You will note that they don't use him in the position to drive in runs- he is not a pure hitter like Pujols or Chipper Jones."
"You go to hitting camps and they don't speak of Ichiro's mechanics, no, they speak of Pujols mechanics."
I disagree, Ichiro is one of the purest hitters I have seen, he does not have a text book swing, but that doesn't mean he is not a pure hitter. His approach is to drive the ball on the ground because of his speed, being a lefty etc.... I have watched him taking batting practice and he can drive the ball out of the park with the best of them if he chose to, but that is not his approach. He is not a big guy but somehow can generate a lot of power if need be. His role is to get on base, not hit home runs.
Here is a clip of Pujols in a Home Run contest. His bat is definately on the upwards part of the swing.-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73gtjsVCZI
quote:Originally posted by BlueRidgeBandit:
the Bonds and Pujols clips they all are making contact with the ball at the lowest point in the arch of their swing
Yet nobody has posted a single image or video of this mythical swing in a game. Please post one if you have it.
The lowest point of a MLB hitters' swing path is over a foot before contact, and the swing is on an upward path at contact.
Notice the dot at the hip.
standball,
Everything you said is true about Ichiro. His approach will take him to the hall of fame.
That said, he averages close to 50 hits a year that do not leave the infield! He is one of the very few hitters that actually benefits from hitting a high percentage of ground balls. Pitchers who get lots of ground balls are in big demand. Hitters who hit lots of ground balls are not in big demand.
Somehow this contact on the way down thing got popular a few years back. We see lots of kids and when we see a good player that has been taught this we cringe. Understand there are things coaches say like "stay on top". But these days there aren't many "good" coaches that want their hitters making contact on the way down.
Nearly all pitches are moving downward to some extent. Why would someone want the bat to also be going downward. This would take exactness and even if it created back spin the actual contact would be weaker. Level to the ground would be better than down.
To drive a nail the hammer strike needs to hit the nail squarely at the angle the nail is at. I think there's too much emphasis placed on creating back spin. Back spin is a good thing, but trying to force it by swinging down through the ball requires perfection and is not good IMO.
Everything you said is true about Ichiro. His approach will take him to the hall of fame.
That said, he averages close to 50 hits a year that do not leave the infield! He is one of the very few hitters that actually benefits from hitting a high percentage of ground balls. Pitchers who get lots of ground balls are in big demand. Hitters who hit lots of ground balls are not in big demand.
Somehow this contact on the way down thing got popular a few years back. We see lots of kids and when we see a good player that has been taught this we cringe. Understand there are things coaches say like "stay on top". But these days there aren't many "good" coaches that want their hitters making contact on the way down.
Nearly all pitches are moving downward to some extent. Why would someone want the bat to also be going downward. This would take exactness and even if it created back spin the actual contact would be weaker. Level to the ground would be better than down.
To drive a nail the hammer strike needs to hit the nail squarely at the angle the nail is at. I think there's too much emphasis placed on creating back spin. Back spin is a good thing, but trying to force it by swinging down through the ball requires perfection and is not good IMO.
Standballman,
You have this right on. Ichiro can drive the ball if he wants to by changing his swing to the “classic power swing” at will. He was challenged by the press last year at home to do so in batting practice so he obliged them and took 20 power swing and promtly lost 12 of them in the outfield stands shutting them all up.
His current approach puts the ball on the ground because of the upwards trajectory of the barrel causeing top spin predominantly.
Pgstaff,
Actually this is as old as the hills and twice as dusty, the effects of round on round objects has been known and taught for as long as I can remember and none of my clients for 35 years have had any problems with this Cue. Contact with barrel path heading down can not really happen and it is only the instructors that do not get this that there is a problem. The opposite problem of contact on the way up is much more of a problem when trying to get lift out of a line drive. There is 100’s of times more overly upper cutters with problems than the very few overly downers.
You must have double cringed when you first saw “the LaBron of baseball”.
When I see an uppercut swing on these batters I don’t cringe anymore I just shake my head now and thank the instuctors for their swing perseptions.
While this is true you can not attain slight vectoral difference to create back spin predominance unless you perform a straighter path to the ball.
All overhead pitchers balls head down, no acceptions here, they all have different downwards degrees with high velocity 12/6 fastballs being the least at about a 3 degree angle down.
To over emphasis the teach to attain just slight barrel to ball vectoral differand where the barrel exit’s just below the ball exit causing bottom spin exit on the ball causing lift and carry.
The contact will be stronger in that it is traveling more with gravity and you gain forearm /wrist contractions to maintain barrel rotational ineria. Much more powerful and all approaches strive for this same exactness.
These are only general explanational cues and people need to quit over exagerating their importance being that none of them even come with a detailed explanation as to what they mean when someone disagrees with them or for them.
Level to the ground will give contact this vectoral difference that is desireable but may be to much vectoral difference if actually performed that does not happen even with a downwards attempt.
This would create a knuckleball exit with the ball, can you immagine trying to catch a knuckleball coming at you at 120 MPH if you were an infielder? This would be preferable if it could be done. There is most always vectoral difference, I believe the backspin producing one is preferable.
I start with this scenario, teaching from exit back to stance with all my clients so they understand this first. Then they have a higher incidence of producing back spin instead of the ball dying top spin. It is much more difficult to produce backspin hence forth the over exageration towards it!
All approaches create this try at perfection, why settle for top spin predominance by telling batters it is OK to produce top spin with their natural uppercuts at contact?
You have this right on. Ichiro can drive the ball if he wants to by changing his swing to the “classic power swing” at will. He was challenged by the press last year at home to do so in batting practice so he obliged them and took 20 power swing and promtly lost 12 of them in the outfield stands shutting them all up.
His current approach puts the ball on the ground because of the upwards trajectory of the barrel causeing top spin predominantly.
Pgstaff,
quote:“Somehow this contact on the way down thing got popular a few years back”
Actually this is as old as the hills and twice as dusty, the effects of round on round objects has been known and taught for as long as I can remember and none of my clients for 35 years have had any problems with this Cue. Contact with barrel path heading down can not really happen and it is only the instructors that do not get this that there is a problem. The opposite problem of contact on the way up is much more of a problem when trying to get lift out of a line drive. There is 100’s of times more overly upper cutters with problems than the very few overly downers.
quote:“We see lots of kids and when we see a good player that has been taught this we cringe.”
You must have double cringed when you first saw “the LaBron of baseball”.
When I see an uppercut swing on these batters I don’t cringe anymore I just shake my head now and thank the instuctors for their swing perseptions.
quote:“Understand there are things coaches say like "stay on top". But these days there aren't many "good" coaches that want their hitters making contact on the way down.”
While this is true you can not attain slight vectoral difference to create back spin predominance unless you perform a straighter path to the ball.
quote:”Nearly all pitches are moving downward to some extent.”
All overhead pitchers balls head down, no acceptions here, they all have different downwards degrees with high velocity 12/6 fastballs being the least at about a 3 degree angle down.
quote:“Why would someone want the bat to also be going downward”
To over emphasis the teach to attain just slight barrel to ball vectoral differand where the barrel exit’s just below the ball exit causing bottom spin exit on the ball causing lift and carry.
quote:“ This would take exactness and even if it created back spin the actual contact would be weaker”
The contact will be stronger in that it is traveling more with gravity and you gain forearm /wrist contractions to maintain barrel rotational ineria. Much more powerful and all approaches strive for this same exactness.
quote:“Level to the ground would be better than down”
These are only general explanational cues and people need to quit over exagerating their importance being that none of them even come with a detailed explanation as to what they mean when someone disagrees with them or for them.
Level to the ground will give contact this vectoral difference that is desireable but may be to much vectoral difference if actually performed that does not happen even with a downwards attempt.
quote:”To drive a nail the hammer strike needs to hit the nail squarely at the angle the nail is at.”
This would create a knuckleball exit with the ball, can you immagine trying to catch a knuckleball coming at you at 120 MPH if you were an infielder? This would be preferable if it could be done. There is most always vectoral difference, I believe the backspin producing one is preferable.
quote:I think there's too much emphasis placed on creating back spin
I start with this scenario, teaching from exit back to stance with all my clients so they understand this first. Then they have a higher incidence of producing back spin instead of the ball dying top spin. It is much more difficult to produce backspin hence forth the over exageration towards it!
quote:“Back spin is a good thing, but trying to force it by swinging down through the ball requires perfection and is not good IMO.”
All approaches create this try at perfection, why settle for top spin predominance by telling batters it is OK to produce top spin with their natural uppercuts at contact?
yard, have any good pics of a MLB hitter using a downward swing path in a game? Please don't give us any more BP pics practicing bad cues. (I just removed Harper from my fantasy team 
)
)
Ball well below the knees...not swinging down.
quote:not swinging down.
it's becoause they don't, any kid with tivo knows.
If you left handed run like a deer and can get to first under 3.6 your a candidate for ground balls.
If you run like with a parachute ground balls are silly.
9% upward swing at contact about the average for a rope. Shoulders tilt, as much or more as any downward swinging cue...in the launch of the swing.
torque with the hands cause the lever *bathead] to initially go down.
A much more accurate cue would be tilting of the shoulders...vrs. swinging down., and that's just painful for most.
It just baffels me that down can mean up to some and just because they've taught swing down for half a century they're right and thats that.
Look at game swings of Bryce Harper at pitches in the strike zone. He doesn't swing down. Far from it. I dont think its fair for the swing down people to claim the LeBron of baseball is in their camp.
Look at game swings of Bryce Harper at pitches in the strike zone. He doesn't swing down. Far from it. I dont think its fair for the swing down people to claim the LeBron of baseball is in their camp.
Doesn't look like a swing down approach to me.
How about another contact guy.
How about another contact guy.
This is a very typical bat and arm path of a MLB hitter and is what is taught by Epstein.(these pics were put together by someone on here some time back.)
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
yard, have any good pics of a MLB hitter using a downward swing path in a game? Please don't give us any more BP pics practicing bad cues. (I just removed Harper from my fantasy team
I would add him back. They have made some nice changes to his swing. It looks really good, IMO.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
5/6 defenders in the IF, and only 3 in the OF in an area 3x as big. I'm hitting it to the OF grass.
To this point. Watching Rangers game right after the Lee/Smoak trade and Josh Lewin asks Tom Grieve (analyst and former GM for Rangers) about Smoak who had really struggled in Big Leagues to date what he thought about Smoak. Grieve said, "you don't have a line drive and flyball ratio like his and not be a succesful hitter in the major leagues"
I especially loved it because this is the one thing my son's instructor has been emphasizing to him from day one. Unless you are a left handed burner you better hit the ball in the air. Balls on the ground turn into outs for most hitters.
Found a pretty good article about swinging down on the ball and how its not used by high level baseball players...I find that the people who teach swing down on the ball are teaching it because it is easy to teach, same as squishing the bug.
http://www.thepitchingacademy....ng-down-on-the-ball/
http://www.thepitchingacademy....ng-down-on-the-ball/
Down to the ball is an idea. The barrell doesn't actually work that way. This idea helps kids, and hitters of all ages to think about being short to contact.
I question whether some guys are teaching with cues on what the hands do, or what the barrel does. They are different. Hands have to work downhill to get the barrell in the zone. Hands have to create extension after palm up palm down contact, which works the barrell through the zone, and then hands finish out of the zone which creates that "uppercut look" that you see with the barrel.
Esposito, yes, it is easy to teach, which helps most hitters understand a correct path and feel that path, again and again. As long as you are not "only" teaching "swing down ON the ball", but you also talk about proper plane, extension, and finish, then it all works for many hitters. I think many of us are arguing over what terminology makes a hitters hands work properly through the swing plane, versus what video shows us that the barrel actually does. Of course, game swings in slow motion video look like an uppercut at and beyond contact. These guys get great extension and finish high which helps them maintain balance.
When you control what you teach with a kids hands and lower half, they tend to control the barrel more consistently. When you start teaching hitters what the barrel should do, I think they lose connection with what the hands have to do to get the barrel there. Teaching a slight uppercut with the barrel, because that is what video shows us, leads me to believe that my hitters would immediately get long and start rolling over balls.
I question whether some guys are teaching with cues on what the hands do, or what the barrel does. They are different. Hands have to work downhill to get the barrell in the zone. Hands have to create extension after palm up palm down contact, which works the barrell through the zone, and then hands finish out of the zone which creates that "uppercut look" that you see with the barrel.
Esposito, yes, it is easy to teach, which helps most hitters understand a correct path and feel that path, again and again. As long as you are not "only" teaching "swing down ON the ball", but you also talk about proper plane, extension, and finish, then it all works for many hitters. I think many of us are arguing over what terminology makes a hitters hands work properly through the swing plane, versus what video shows us that the barrel actually does. Of course, game swings in slow motion video look like an uppercut at and beyond contact. These guys get great extension and finish high which helps them maintain balance.
When you control what you teach with a kids hands and lower half, they tend to control the barrel more consistently. When you start teaching hitters what the barrel should do, I think they lose connection with what the hands have to do to get the barrel there. Teaching a slight uppercut with the barrel, because that is what video shows us, leads me to believe that my hitters would immediately get long and start rolling over balls.
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:
Down to the ball is an idea. The barrell doesn't actually work that way. This idea helps kids, and hitters of all ages to think about being short to contact.
I question whether some guys are teaching with cues on what the hands do, or what the barrel does. They are different. Hands have to work downhill to get the barrell in the zone. Hands have to create extension after palm up palm down contact, which works the barrell through the zone, and then hands finish out of the zone which creates that "uppercut look" that you see with the barrel.
Esposito, yes, it is easy to teach, which helps most hitters understand a correct path and feel that path, again and again. As long as you are not "only" teaching "swing down ON the ball", but you also talk about proper plane, extension, and finish, then it all works for many hitters. I think many of us are arguing over what terminology makes a hitters hands work properly through the swing plane, versus what video shows us that the barrel actually does. Of course, game swings in slow motion video look like an uppercut at and beyond contact. These guys get great extension and finish high which helps them maintain balance.
When you control what you teach with a kids hands and lower half, they tend to control the barrel more consistently. When you start teaching hitters what the barrel should do, I think they lose connection with what the hands have to do to get the barrel there. Teaching a slight uppercut with the barrel, because that is what video shows us, leads me to believe that my hitters would immediately get long and start rolling over balls.
I dont think there is a "heavy" uppercut involved, I do believe it is the path of the hands which creates the look. I like to call it the lag of the swing, and the hitters box. No matter what level you are at, it can be taught to have a lag of the barrel which is cause by the path of the hands. I think the swing down on the ball does more of the rollover approach as when you extend, most people teach to extend the barrel out, and that is where the "power V" is but in reality, the power V is on extension after the swing right around shoulder height.
The first picture is an example of what I mean where power v is taught at the wrong point and swinging down on the ball is taught and where the rollover will take place.
The second image is Willie Mays performing where a proper power V takes place after contact.
And the last few images are major leaguers and a youth player showing the hitters box where barrel lag is caused by the hands.
In the Epstein approach to teaching,you don't even use the hands to get the bat in the zone.It is strictly a rotation of the bat and shoulders.(as shown in the above stills I posted)Once you get the bat in line with the zone,then the lag and extension become the point of focus.There is definitely no thought or mention of anything remotely close to swinging down.
agreed, power v isn't at contact. back elbow is almost connected to the rib cage at contact. the v happens in extension. I just find it easier to teach what a hitters hands should do to correct the barrel versus teaching what the barrel should do in order to get the hands to that position. i think a hitter has more control in adjustment with his hands than he does in the barrel of the bat.
Ripken teaches Power V at contact youtube . There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:
In the Epstein approach to teaching,you don't even use the hands to get the bat in the zone.It is strictly a rotation of the bat and shoulders.(as shown in the above stills I posted)Once you get the bat in line with the zone,then the lag and extension become the point of focus.There is definitely no thought or mention of anything remotely close to swinging down.
Good luck hitting the ball on the outer half or a good breaking ball. I don't mean to bunch everything you said into that statement, but you won't ever convince me that the hands play that small of a role in most good swings. lower half, hips, and hands..... maybe i don't know epsteins hitting theories well enough to comment, but I know that we are "probably" again, again, and again, arguing over terminology. haha
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by tfox:
In the Epstein approach to teaching,you don't even use the hands to get the bat in the zone.It is strictly a rotation of the bat and shoulders.(as shown in the above stills I posted)Once you get the bat in line with the zone,then the lag and extension become the point of focus.There is definitely no thought or mention of anything remotely close to swinging down.
Good luck hitting the ball on the outer half or a good breaking ball. I don't mean to bunch everything you said into that statement, but you won't ever convince me that the hands play that small of a role in most good swings. lower half, hips, and hands..... maybe i don't know epsteins hitting theories well enough to comment, but I know that we are "probably" again, again, and again, arguing over terminology. haha
I am NOT saying hands don't play a huge role,they just aren't "swinging" the bat into the zone.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact. There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
haha. this just tells you how stupid our arguing is and how much i am correct about the terminology deal. This swing looks like an uppercut, right? You can find a pic or video of anything you want to find. haha. looks like those hands and back shoulder are working down through the ball to me. I don't like the power v out front at contact, but come on, he is hitting off a tee. he didn't really hit like this.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact youtube . There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
heres ripken when playing, doesn't look to me he actually had V at contact:
quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by tfox:
In the Epstein approach to teaching,you don't even use the hands to get the bat in the zone.It is strictly a rotation of the bat and shoulders.(as shown in the above stills I posted)Once you get the bat in line with the zone,then the lag and extension become the point of focus.There is definitely no thought or mention of anything remotely close to swinging down.
Good luck hitting the ball on the outer half or a good breaking ball. I don't mean to bunch everything you said into that statement, but you won't ever convince me that the hands play that small of a role in most good swings. lower half, hips, and hands..... maybe i don't know epsteins hitting theories well enough to comment, but I know that we are "probably" again, again, and again, arguing over terminology. haha
I am NOT saying hands don't play a huge role,they just aren't "swinging" the bat into the zone.
Ok, then we are way off in terminology, once again. If the top hand doesn't work through the zone, or for others, the bottom hand doesn't pull the barrel through the zone, and help keep the barrel in the zone for as long as possible, then how does the barrel get swung through the zone and stay there? the hands create contact and extension through the zone. If not, then we would just hold the bat out level behind us and rotate to hit. it is a combination and the hands do help "swing" the bat through the zone
quote:Originally posted by Nick_Esposito:quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact youtube . There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
heres ripken when playing, doesn't look to me he actually had V at contact:
perfect. like i said, you can find a pic or video of anything. bottom line, he is short to the ball here and not "power v'd" at contact. good shots.
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:
agreed, power v isn't at contact. back elbow is almost connected to the rib cage at contact. the v happens in extension. I just find it easier to teach what a hitters hands should do to correct the barrel versus teaching what the barrel should do in order to get the hands to that position. i think a hitter has more control in adjustment with his hands than he does in the barrel of the bat.
Back elbow is connected to the ribs, but another thing to point out is that elbow is lined up with their back knee, that ensures proper balance.
I agree with you with the hitters hands being the issue to teach not the barrel. The barrel follows the hands, and thats where the hitters box and bat lag comes into play.
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact. There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
haha. this just tells you how stupid our arguing is and how much i am correct about the terminology deal. This swing looks like an uppercut, right? You can find a pic or video of anything you want to find. haha. looks like those hands and back shoulder are working down through the ball to me. I don't like the power v out front at contact, but come on, he is hitting off a tee. he didn't really hit like this he didn't really hit like this.
Nope,sure didn't.Doesn't look like he is hitting the top half and creating backspin either.
Looks like you beat me to it.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact. There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
haha. this just tells you how stupid our arguing is and how much i am correct about the terminology deal. This swing looks like an uppercut, right? You can find a pic or video of anything you want to find. haha. looks like those hands and back shoulder are working down through the ball to me. I don't like the power v out front at contact, but come on, he is hitting off a tee. he didn't really hit like this he didn't really hit like this.
Nope,sure didn't.Doesn't look like he is hitting the top half and creating backspin either.
Nope, he found the bottom of it and drove it. bet it was backspun though because of how he stayed through it. If it wasn't backspun, what was it? knuckled? top spun? That barrel is still working through the ball, hence the right elbow still being connected. he spun that ball.
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Ripken teaches Power V at contact. There are a few others, but most MLB hitters are slotted at contact.
haha. this just tells you how stupid our arguing is and how much i am correct about the terminology deal. This swing looks like an uppercut, right? You can find a pic or video of anything you want to find. haha. looks like those hands and back shoulder are working down through the ball to me. I don't like the power v out front at contact, but come on, he is hitting off a tee. he didn't really hit like this he didn't really hit like this.
Nope,sure didn't.Doesn't look like he is hitting the top half and creating backspin either.
Nope, he found the bottom of it and drove it. bet it was backspun though because of how he stayed through it. If it wasn't backspun, what was it? knuckled? top spun? That barrel is still working through the ball, hence the right elbow still being connected. he spun that ball.
that is the myth... i am not saying that you have to hit the top half to backspin the ball... but instead, you have to work down through it somehow and find that bottom half.
Epstein teaches that at contact,you should be able to draw a straight line from the bottom hand elbow to the end of the bat and the top hand elbow is connected to the hip.To accomplish this,you start with a box with the arms and the bat is actually placed on the side of the shoulder and you rotate,not swing to get the bat to the zone.This is for teaching purposes and there is much more to it and the hands do get very much involved but this is the basic jist of it.The above pics are all examples of this in action.
