It's not necessary to copy everything again and again.
AND imo,that is confusing at best to young hitters.Hell,look at how adults argue over it.I watch many a young hitter struggling with these cues that would be much better hitters if their dads or coaches would quit confusing them with bad cues.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
It's not necessary to copy everything again and again.
thank you!
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
It's not necessary to copy everything again and again.
Most web sites don't recopy every post,just the latest,I do it from habit.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:
AND imo,that is confusing at best to young hitters.Hell,look at how adults argue over it.I watch many a young hitter struggling with these cues that would be much better hitters if their dads or coaches would quit confusing them with bad cues.
No more confusing than what I hear you talk of in my opinion. It works for my guys, whether they are playing high school or pro ball.
Do you see hands swinging down in these stills? This is classic epstein (and many others)approach to teaching hitting.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:
in my opinion, yes. and if the stills went further, you would see more hand action downhill to contact, then extension with hands through the ball, and then a high finish with those hands. bottom hand is pulling the bat through, top hand is pushing it down and through. back elbow is connected until contact. palm up and palm down with hands at and through contact, and top hand rolls into follow through after extension.
frame 4 to frame 7, hands are clearly working downhill. you can call it what you want from epstein, but that is what my terminology is. those hands are working down from above the shoulder, to now the chest, and eventually to contact, extension, and follow through.
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:
in my opinion, yes. and if the stills went further, you would see more hand action downhill to contact, then extension with hands through the ball, and then a high finish with those hands. bottom hand is pulling the bat through, top hand is pushing it down and through. back elbow is connected until contact. palm up and palm down with hands at and through contact, and top hand rolls into follow through after extension.
His hands NEVER leave his number in any of these pics so how can that be swing down.He is starting an up path with his hands at the last clip to finish high.(also a teaching of Epstein)
Notice how the hands,bat and shoulder seem to be working together.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by illini fan:
in my opinion, yes. and if the stills went further, you would see more hand action downhill to contact, then extension with hands through the ball, and then a high finish with those hands. bottom hand is pulling the bat through, top hand is pushing it down and through. back elbow is connected until contact. palm up and palm down with hands at and through contact, and top hand rolls into follow through after extension.
His hands NEVER leave his number in any of these pics so how can that be swing down.He is starting an up path with his hands at the last clip to finish high.(also a teaching of Epstein)
Notice how the hands,bat and shoulder seem to be working together.
first, lets be honest, his hands are above the number on his jersey until frame 7. They start low in 1 because of load, get higher to stride, then work downhill. but also, look where the pitch is coming in during frame 7. like i have said, it seems, 20 times tonight, you can find a pic of anything. that pitch is a high pitch, top of zone at best, so he isn't going to be working downhill with his hands on an "extreme" level
Tell me that his hands didn't have to work downhill here? I don't think his setup started at his waist.
guess i don't know how to put a pic up.
celebrity-photos.buy-art-posters-prints.com
quote:Originally posted by illini fan:quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by illini fan:
in my opinion, yes. and if the stills went further, you would see more hand action downhill to contact, then extension with hands through the ball, and then a high finish with those hands. bottom hand is pulling the bat through, top hand is pushing it down and through. back elbow is connected until contact. palm up and palm down with hands at and through contact, and top hand rolls into follow through after extension.
His hands NEVER leave his number in any of these pics so how can that be swing down.He is starting an up path with his hands at the last clip to finish high.(also a teaching of Epstein)
Notice how the hands,bat and shoulder seem to be working together.
first, lets be honest, his hands are above the number on his jersey until frame 7. They start low in 1 because of load, get higher to stride, then work downhill. but also, look where the pitch is coming in during frame 7. like i have said, it seems, 20 times tonight, you can find a pic of anything. that pitch is a high pitch, top of zone at best, so he isn't going to be working downhill with his hands on an "extreme" level
Toe plant isn't until frame 5,and everything before that is just timing and loading.Then the swing starts in frame 5 and the hands don't change more than 2" in either direction and if this was continued,imo,you would see the hands higher,not lower.
How about this,when does the "swing" go downward.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...lery/bonds/flash.htm
I like what Gwynn says in frame 4,it isn't downward, it is a pull across his body.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports...lery/bonds/flash.htm
I like what Gwynn says in frame 4,it isn't downward, it is a pull across his body.
levers.
opposite forces at one end, bring the other end of a lever down.
Same deal with a bat, hand torque, hands pulling in opposite directions, at one end of the bat, bring the bat head down, other end.
No swinging action makes a lever, or a bat move downward, with one end held.
opposite forces at one end, bring the other end of a lever down.
Same deal with a bat, hand torque, hands pulling in opposite directions, at one end of the bat, bring the bat head down, other end.
No swinging action makes a lever, or a bat move downward, with one end held.
Better explanation...
Wrist Action or Torque
Most coaches think the wrist play an important role in producing power and quickness for the baseball swing. But the muscle groups that flex and un-flex (abduct and addult) the wrist are a comparably small muscle group and could have only a limited impact on the generation of bat speed. Therefore, I would like to offer a different observation I drew from my research of what appears to be the "snapping of the wrist."
For a ball to be hit over 400 feet, the bat head must be accelerated to a speed in excess of 70 MPH in less than 5/30 of a second. About half that speed is developed in the last 1/30 of a second. The large amount of inertia that must be overcome to accelerate the bat head 35 MPH or more in 1/30 of a second requires far more energy than the muscles in the hands, wrists and arms can produce. That kind of energy (about 3 torque HP) must come from the large muscle groups in the legs, back and shoulders.
The question then becomes; how is the energy transferred from the large muscle groups of the body up and on out to the bat head? I'm not going to cover the entire sequence at this time (omitting the initiation mechanics of the swing), but confine my remarks to the mechanics that appear to be wrist action or snapping of the wrist just prior to contact.
To explain the mechanics of how the large muscles are involved in this transfer, I am going to describe the swing mechanics of a Ken Griffey Jr., or hitters of his caliber, just prior to making contact. --- The large muscles in his legs and back have rotated his hips and shoulders to a point where the belly button and chest are now facing the pitcher. His lead shoulder is now starting to rotate back in the direction of the catcher. This means that the lead arm, and thus the bottom hand, are now being pulling back toward the catcher as the bat approaches contact. --- At the same time the rear shoulder (and top hand) are rotating around toward the pitcher.
This "pulling back" of the bottom hand as the top hand is being "driven forward", generates a tremendous amount of TORQUE on the bat. Torque is the result of forces being applied to the bat from opposing directions that causes an object (the bat) to rotate about a point between the two hands.
So, in the swing of a great hitter, what appears to be wrist action is actually the "push - pull" action of the hands generating a large amount of torque. This torque was developed from the large muscle groups and causes the bat head to be greatly accelerated. --- If the batter does not initiate the swing with torque and rotational forces, he will not be able to obtain the position of power required to apply maximum torque to the bat before contact. This is especially true for pitches on the outside part of the plate.
http://batspeed.com/research08.html
Wrist Action or Torque
Most coaches think the wrist play an important role in producing power and quickness for the baseball swing. But the muscle groups that flex and un-flex (abduct and addult) the wrist are a comparably small muscle group and could have only a limited impact on the generation of bat speed. Therefore, I would like to offer a different observation I drew from my research of what appears to be the "snapping of the wrist."
For a ball to be hit over 400 feet, the bat head must be accelerated to a speed in excess of 70 MPH in less than 5/30 of a second. About half that speed is developed in the last 1/30 of a second. The large amount of inertia that must be overcome to accelerate the bat head 35 MPH or more in 1/30 of a second requires far more energy than the muscles in the hands, wrists and arms can produce. That kind of energy (about 3 torque HP) must come from the large muscle groups in the legs, back and shoulders.
The question then becomes; how is the energy transferred from the large muscle groups of the body up and on out to the bat head? I'm not going to cover the entire sequence at this time (omitting the initiation mechanics of the swing), but confine my remarks to the mechanics that appear to be wrist action or snapping of the wrist just prior to contact.
To explain the mechanics of how the large muscles are involved in this transfer, I am going to describe the swing mechanics of a Ken Griffey Jr., or hitters of his caliber, just prior to making contact. --- The large muscles in his legs and back have rotated his hips and shoulders to a point where the belly button and chest are now facing the pitcher. His lead shoulder is now starting to rotate back in the direction of the catcher. This means that the lead arm, and thus the bottom hand, are now being pulling back toward the catcher as the bat approaches contact. --- At the same time the rear shoulder (and top hand) are rotating around toward the pitcher.
This "pulling back" of the bottom hand as the top hand is being "driven forward", generates a tremendous amount of TORQUE on the bat. Torque is the result of forces being applied to the bat from opposing directions that causes an object (the bat) to rotate about a point between the two hands.
So, in the swing of a great hitter, what appears to be wrist action is actually the "push - pull" action of the hands generating a large amount of torque. This torque was developed from the large muscle groups and causes the bat head to be greatly accelerated. --- If the batter does not initiate the swing with torque and rotational forces, he will not be able to obtain the position of power required to apply maximum torque to the bat before contact. This is especially true for pitches on the outside part of the plate.
http://batspeed.com/research08.html
I'm Confused. Are you saying C. Lau teaches to swing down on the ball? If so, then I can tell you that he absolutely does not.
quote:Originally posted by cball:
Yardbird
with the exception of C. Lau which top hitting guy teaches to swing down?
(this thread should be in the hitting forum)
quote:Originally posted by John Carter Jr.:
I'm Confused. Are you saying C. Lau teaches to swing down on the ball? If so, then I can tell you that he absolutely does not.quote:Originally posted by cball:
Yardbird
with the exception of C. Lau which top hitting guy teaches to swing down?
(this thread should be in the hitting forum)
I believe that Lau teachings have changed over the years.
I am sure someone with first hand knowledge can expound on this subject.
I have heard that Ted Williams did not like what the original Lau teachings were.
quote:Originally posted by tfox:quote:Originally posted by John Carter Jr.:
I'm Confused. Are you saying C. Lau teaches to swing down on the ball? If so, then I can tell you that he absolutely does not.quote:Originally posted by cball:
Yardbird
with the exception of C. Lau which top hitting guy teaches to swing down?
(this thread should be in the hitting forum)
I believe that Lau teachings have changed over the years.
I am sure someone with first hand knowledge can expound on this subject.
I have heard that Ted Williams did not like what the original Lau teachings were.
you are correct, Ted was very vocal against Lau.
the swing down thing was not immaculate conception.
Ted Williams responded when asked;
"What do you think of Lau's theory of hitting?" and Ted responded, "It has done more to destroy the art of hitting than anything in the history of baseball."
When asked at another time, what he thought of Lau's book, he responded,
"They ought to burn every copy ever printed."
