First excerpt is up. I hope you all enjoy it.
Excluding the chapter on me (seems unfair to review myself), I thought the book was quite good.
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I liked the article, checked out your website, and found the weightlifting link 5x5. Very good information. Thanks!
read it this morning and very enjoyable. great press and compliments on the great things you are doing to advance the knowledge of pitching and injury prevention, and of course doing while showing tremendous improvement.
A fierce criticism of Perfect Game in The Arm: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/...n-tommy-john-surgery
I'm not sure if fierce even covers it...but I'm guessing this thread will be going on for quite a long time!
mcloven posted:A fierce criticism of Perfect Game in The Arm: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/...n-tommy-john-surgery
Interesting....IMO it's like blaming McDonald's for everyone eating hamburgers w/fries and getting fat.
Go44dad posted:mcloven posted:A fierce criticism of Perfect Game in The Arm: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/...n-tommy-john-surgery
Interesting....IMO it's like blaming McDonald's for everyone eating hamburgers w/fries and getting fat.
Yes, if PG wasn't offering it, someone else would. the Problem is the parents who want to "stay ahead of the curve".
Nice stuff Kyle. Thanks for posting.
mcloven posted:A fierce criticism of Perfect Game in The Arm: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/...n-tommy-john-surgery
Really, it's "fierce" but lacking in substance.
Somehow Passan seems to be trying to link Molina's issues to PG, but provides zero reasoning for the link. He is a kid with issues that have nothing to do with baseball, PG, overuse, or anything that should be subject matter of this book. In trying to demonize the way PG ( and baseball itself I guess) treats young players, Passan has taken a cheap shot at a teenager. If you want to tell us that this prodigy was overused and then got injured it would be one thing. To tell us some kid who can throw hard and attended PG events has personal issues is another. There's no evidence to show us any connection - and frankly it smells of desperation to further some agenda.
I actually had high hopes for this book, but after reading this excerpt I've reconsidered buying it.
I don't disagree. My thoughts:
1. PG has an increased moral obligation to be at the forefront of injury prevention/monitoring innings/protecting players. [Kinda like an attractive nuisance in tort law]. Saying it's all on the players or coaches would be passing the buck.
2. PG HAS done some good some good stuff re protecting arms. I did notice using pitch count limits in HS tourneys, focusing on Pitch Smart limits, etc.
3. Overall, PG provides a very valuable service to players. Honestly, compared to most travel ball associations and most HS coaches, PG seems to do a better job "caring" about players--trying to do the right thing. Blaming PG seems somewhat misplaced. Could they do more to protect players? Sure--We all can. Travel ball coaches, HS coaches, Parents, and players all have some duties here. But remember the exposure that PG gives is also an extremely important part of the equation (there is always risk/reward--PG provides a good portion of the reward).
4. Younger PG events does seem to be taking advantage of gullible parents somewhat. Everyone thinks their little angel is a star. So, they will flock to these events. Is it the right thing? Just because there is money to be had, doesn't necessarily mean it's the most ethical thing. Folks buy crack too (not analogous but you get the point--just because people will pay or want something, doesn't mean it's right). You can always justify it in your head--"we're just providing what people want" or "some athletes show potential at really young ages" but at some point that argument is weak. Then again, a lot of these players do play travel ball, so SOMEONE is making $ off them, regardless. Maybe PG can provide a safer environment for these younger kids. Who knows. Honestly, it's just not that easy of an answer...but very easy to point fingers.
I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint and my son is in 14u.
1. The younger PG events are a big thrill for the under 14u crowd. Since High School baseball is happening during February, March and April Kudos to PG for opening up their vacant fields so these youngsters can play somewhere special.
2. Yes, PG can gather data on youngsters and over many years might be able to track something analytically. Who knows, maybe they will even be able to track and predict TJ issues with the long term data, why is it a bad thing? No one is promising anything.
3. Yes, PG is open all year round for showcases. HOWEVER, no one says you have to go to ALL the events. If a kids shutdown period is in December then he's shut down, don't go. This goes back to the parents thinking their 9th grader should have had an offer by now and throwing every event at the kid. It isn't PG's responsibility to turn away the money because the kid has already been in 5 showcases this year. I'd like to see a fast food place tell me I've exceeded the amount of burgers I can buy and consume in a day safely!
4. If people want to pay to have their 8th grader do a showcase then again, more power to them. Several "Major" teams have 14u kids that have already done showcases and while they are outstanding players for 14u then mostly walked away with scores of 7's...why...because they are being compared to full grown 17/18u kids! If you want it on record your 14u kid can throw 75mph, congrats, you can make that happen for $600, but don't blame PG for scamming people, it's called Free Will!
I tweeted last night...
All I can say is you can't find many that are more against arm abuse than Perfect Game.
From day one we created rules to protect pitchers. Last year we joined MLB and USABaseball in their PitchSmart initiative.
The very most important personal thing to me regarding baseball, so,e might think is selfish. That one thing is my reputation.
Needless to say we don't agree with much that was written, but I really can't talk about it right now. Some simply is untrue. I hope everyone understands.
I am even more pissed off about the way a talented young man was trashed in the interest of creating a story. No matter what, that is something you will never see in a Perfect Game story or report. Those are things the scouting community needs to decipher.
Hopefully this will all become clear in time. Many have advised me that this will actually end up being good for PG. I just wish for the facts to come out. That Is something I can always live with.
PGStaff posted:I just wish for the facts to come out.
Wishing won't make that happen.
PG is certainly not promoting pitcher abuse but I still don't see the reasoning in participating in a velocity showcase for 13-14 year old pitchers.
For position players it might make some sense but what is the benefit of showing that your 14 year old can throw 82?
Dominik85 posted:PG is certainly not promoting pitcher abuse but I still don't see the reasoning in participating in a velocity showcase for 13-14 year old pitchers.
For position players it might make some sense but what is the benefit of showing that your 14 year old can throw 82?
Refer back to my comment that if a parent wants to Pay $600 to get it on record that their 14-year-old can throw 75 miles an hour more power to them.
using 4u softball as support for an argument about PG has zero credibility. Poor journalism.
CaCO3Girl posted:Dominik85 posted:PG is certainly not promoting pitcher abuse but I still don't see the reasoning in participating in a velocity showcase for 13-14 year old pitchers.
For position players it might make some sense but what is the benefit of showing that your 14 year old can throw 82?
Refer back to my comment that if a parent wants to Pay $600 to get it on record that their 14-year-old can throw 75 miles an hour more power to them.
I dont agree with your statement. Most parents have no clue why this may or may not be a healthy choice for young pitchers.
I stand by my original opinion, one that I have had for years. 12,13-14 year olds do not have to do showcases. Go out and play, learn the game, get better at it, have fun. Save your money for when you really need to spend your money, college is expensive.
The excerpt is a tale of two pitchers. No you can't blame Molina's issues on PG, but you can blame it on some other stuff. The amount of pressure that is placed upon many of these young players doesn't always have the same outcome. We cant expect them all to be like Mike Trout or Ryley Pint or their parents to be the same. They need to be educated and diligent. Not all elite players embrace the attention positively , for some it just really poses other issues. I believe that letting your kids be kids, without added pressure (outside of the family as parents often lay on enough of it ) is essential to their development and where they will end up.
Remember that player from College of Charleston who left. I met someone who knows the situation, told me that he just felt that his whole life revolved around the game, by the time he got to college, he pretty much needed a break. He just wanted to do things he missed out on, I understand.
BTW, kudos to Pints dad, I can relate.
TPM I don't think we are disagreeing. The question was what's the point in a 14 year old showcasing. My answer was that his parents wanted to pay $600 to prove he threw 75mph....as in there is no point for the 14u kid.
There are SEVERAL locally that showcased going into 9th grade, most walked away with a PG score of 7 which isn't what the parents were hoping for but pretty much what most talented 14u kids are capable of when being compared to talented 18u kids.
One simple thing PG could change is not to show pitch velocity live on the scoreboards at Lakepoint. Absolutely they should keep collecting velocity (and other data) and posting it on player profiles after the events have concluded - that is invaluable - but putting the numbers up in real time can encourage young pitchers to over-throw as they try to hit higher numbers. Last summer, I noticed multiple pitchers checking the scoreboard for that velo number after every single pitch and that just doesn't seem healthy to me. Just one opinion.
In 1987 when I created the Area Code games, only the scouts and CHIP had radar guns. Players selected by pro scouts and my contacts. We used one field and played 8 am to 10 pm. Players paid only for hotel and gas to the games. Average signing bonus equal $35 million each year.
It is the same game, but different philosophy's. Would I do it again?
Bob
Enjoying the Ride posted:One simple thing PG could change is not to show pitch velocity live on the scoreboards at Lakepoint. Absolutely they should keep collecting velocity (and other data) and posting it on player profiles after the events have concluded - that is invaluable - but putting the numbers up in real time can encourage young pitchers to over-throw as they try to hit higher numbers. Last summer, I noticed multiple pitchers checking the scoreboard for that velo number after every single pitch and that just doesn't seem healthy to me. Just one opinion.
That is something I really like about Lakepoint. Yes, some of the pitchers look around to see what they just threw and they don't finish their pitch properly. It's a learning experience for the younger kids to stay focused on what YOU are doing. I also think anytime there is a radar gun involved kids try to throw harder. I have read on here before that attempting to throw harder can not only result in a wild pitch but also a lower velocity....this is something for the coaches to talk about with their players prior to the game.
The highlights of playing PG for my son was 1. The velo up on the board 2. The artificial turf (slides became hysterical, think Mall-cop) 3. is a tie between the amazing lights and playing a team from TX in what he considered to be a local weekend tourney.
I've been to college games that don't show pitch velocities out to public, why is it important for young pitchers? Or for parents to know? Scouts/coaches can find out in other ways.
Heck Spring Training games I attended few weeks back didn't show it anywhere. Scouts were in stands w gun and used hand signals to relay info to others on/near field.
playball2011 posted:I've been to college games that don't show pitch velocities out to public, why is it important for young pitchers? Or for parents to know? Scouts/coaches can find out in other ways.
Heck Spring Training games I attended few weeks back didn't show it anywhere. Scouts were in stands w gun and used hand signals to relay info to others on/near field.
If at a field where they show velocities, would you look?
playball2011 posted:I've been to college games that don't show pitch velocities out to public, why is it important for young pitchers? Or for parents to know? Scouts/coaches can find out in other ways.
Heck Spring Training games I attended few weeks back didn't show it anywhere. Scouts were in stands w gun and used hand signals to relay info to others on/near field.
Important, nope. Scouts there looking at 9u kids, nope. Just freaking cool to see, yup!
First, while I have seen plenty of proof that throwing harder can be associated with an increase in injury rates, I have yet to see empirical proof that trying to throw harder is associated with an increase in injury rates. A kid who throws 70 mph can try all he wants, but he's not going to put the forces on his arm a kid throwing a smooth 90 does. Yes, I realize that if a gun comes out some kids will sacrifice mechanics for an attempt at higher velocities. However, changed mechanics lead to increased injury rates over a period of time. If a kid is around radar guns very much at all he soon learns that there is no reason to try harder as it doesn't lead to increased velocity. A kid who tries to wrench it up every now and then isn't in any danger and kids who see the gun on a regular basis don't do that.
Second, all this talk of 13 and 14yo's showcasing is misleading. Please note that the vast majority of kids under high school age that are represented in PG's database have numbers that were recorded at tournaments, not showcases. Truth is there aren't that many 13yo or 14yo's attending PG showcases. They attend tournaments. If they weren't at a PG tournament on any given weekend, they'd be at a USSSA tournament or a Triple Crown tourney.
Good observation. They dont show velocities at college games or spring training or many milb games. What is the purpose for pre-HS showcases.
TPM posted:Good observation. They dont show velocities at college games or spring training or many milb games. What is the purpose for pre-HS showcases.
Having just looked at the PG showcase schedule, I didn't see a single "pre-high school" showcase on it.
Just think how silly it would look if every mom had a radar gun behind the screen........I'M glad they post the velocities. And the scouts can be left alone.
roothog66 posted:TPM posted:Good observation. They dont show velocities at college games or spring training or many milb games. What is the purpose for pre-HS showcases.
Having just looked at the PG showcase schedule, I didn't see a single "pre-high school" showcase on it.
Pre high school is 12,13,14.
TPM posted:roothog66 posted:TPM posted:Good observation. They dont show velocities at college games or spring training or many milb games. What is the purpose for pre-HS showcases.
Having just looked at the PG showcase schedule, I didn't see a single "pre-high school" showcase on it.
Pre high school is 12,13,14.
Exactly. No showcases are on the PG schedule for those age groups. Am I wrong?
roothog66 posted:First, while I have seen plenty of proof that throwing harder can be associated with an increase in injury rates, I have yet to see empirical proof that trying to throw harder is associated with an increase in injury rates. A kid who throws 70 mph can try all he wants, but he's not going to put the forces on his arm a kid throwing a smooth 90 does. Yes, I realize that if a gun comes out some kids will sacrifice mechanics for an attempt at higher velocities. However, changed mechanics lead to increased injury rates over a period of time. If a kid is around radar guns very much at all he soon learns that there is no reason to try harder as it doesn't lead to increased velocity. A kid who tries to wrench it up every now and then isn't in any danger and kids who see the gun on a regular basis don't do that.
Second, all this talk of 13 and 14yo's showcasing is misleading. Please note that the vast majority of kids under high school age that are represented in PG's database have numbers that were recorded at tournaments, not showcases. Truth is there aren't that many 13yo or 14yo's attending PG showcases. They attend tournaments. If they weren't at a PG tournament on any given weekend, they'd be at a USSSA tournament or a Triple Crown tourney.
Sorry. I don't know where you have been but on this side of the US the emphasis is on velocity. Players know this at an early age. They see the scouts with the guns, they aren't stupid.
Trying to throw harder to impress scouts for many might mean a breakdown in mechanics. You do it enough, you can get injured.
Hey, I got a great idea, tell the scouts not to bring their guns to youth tourneys, and dads as wells.
roothog66 posted:TPM posted:roothog66 posted:TPM posted:Good observation. They dont show velocities at college games or spring training or many milb games. What is the purpose for pre-HS showcases.
Having just looked at the PG showcase schedule, I didn't see a single "pre-high school" showcase on it.
Pre high school is 12,13,14.
Exactly. No showcases are on the PG schedule for those age groups. Am I wrong?
I don't know. Ask Passan.
Then if they are measuring velocity at tournaments, not necessary.
And, please don't let Grandma come to a game, since Little Johnny might try to throw hard to impress her. And girlfriends... and newspapers... and rivalry games... and...
Folks, please.
Oh boy... We have no showcases for the younger age groups.
I know that some believe the radar gun is a problem. Truth is the problem is high velocity more than the tool that reads it. Every baseball player that ever lived has tried to throw the ball as hard as he can. Regarding scouts,does it matter if 50 scouts are at a game with or without a radar gun. Does the pitcher throw less hard without the radar gun?
Regarding the radar readings on the scoreboard... The main reason most places don't do it is because it is very expensive. Ours at LakePoint is hooked up to the TrackMan units there. Those units give a lot more information than velocity. And there are many minor league parks that use a different system.
We have always had a display board showing velocity at our indoor facility in Iowa. There have been thousands of kids, all ages, throw in that facility. So far, only one of those thousands has had TJ surgery. That one was my son and that was after many years of professional baseball.
Last year we were one of the very first to join MLB's PitchSmart initiative. This year we will be fully compliant. While no system is perfect, we believe the PitchSmart guidelines are the best available to help protect young pitchers.
Regarding the story, for legal reasons I can't say anything about PG. I will say there were several inaccuracies. However, it should speak volumes when someone trashes a young high school kid. Especially one that we know the true history on. The past is not the greatest, but not anywhere near the way he was portrayed.
When we started PG some 20 years ago, it was rare to see a high school kid throwing 90 mph. The 90 back then is now mid 90s. The number of HS kids throwing 90 or better these days is astounding. It's not the tool that measures it, it is the number that tool is recording. Velocity is the problem, yet it is a problem that "everyone" wants.
So what or who is most responsible for Tommy John surgeries? The answer is simple, the culprit is Baseball. Everyone involved in baseball has to share the responsibility. To that extent, that includes Perfect Game along with all the rest of baseball. I guess some are just easier targets.
Truth is I have been deeply involved and concerned with arm care all my adult life. In fact, I could write my own book on the subject. We set up rules 20 years ago to help protect pitchers at our showcase events. What I won't do again is spend half a day explaining things to someone that presents them self as a person just looking for information.
CaCO3Girl posted:I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint and my son is in 14u.
1. The younger PG events are a big thrill for the under 14u crowd. Since High School baseball is happening during February, March and April Kudos to PG for opening up their vacant fields so these youngsters can play somewhere special.
2. Yes, PG can gather data on youngsters and over many years might be able to track something analytically. Who knows, maybe they will even be able to track and predict TJ issues with the long term data, why is it a bad thing? No one is promising anything.
3. Yes, PG is open all year round for showcases. HOWEVER, no one says you have to go to ALL the events. If a kids shutdown period is in December then he's shut down, don't go. This goes back to the parents thinking their 9th grader should have had an offer by now and throwing every event at the kid. It isn't PG's responsibility to turn away the money because the kid has already been in 5 showcases this year. I'd like to see a fast food place tell me I've exceeded the amount of burgers I can buy and consume in a day safely!
4. If people want to pay to have their 8th grader do a showcase then again, more power to them. Several "Major" teams have 14u kids that have already done showcases and while they are outstanding players for 14u then mostly walked away with scores of 7's...why...because they are being compared to full grown 17/18u kids! If you want it on record your 14u kid can throw 75mph, congrats, you can make that happen for $600, but don't blame PG for scamming people, it's called Free Will!
I guess I may have misunderstood about PG showcases. The above post (see #4) is deceiving.
My apologies. I should know better.
Don't really pay attention to velocities at youth games. U might hear a number being discussed in stands but I like to focus on mechanics of P. IMO kids r too focused on a number. P is so much more. The HS kids see a number flashed up there for every pitch and focus more on that then hitting spots and making good pitches. Too many parents IMO focus on it too much too. That's why we have parents on here asking how fast an 8-9 yr old should be throwing. If it's your thing have at it.
Passan definitely attacked a few very powerfull entities in his book.
TPM posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint and my son is in 14u.
1. The younger PG events are a big thrill for the under 14u crowd. Since High School baseball is happening during February, March and April Kudos to PG for opening up their vacant fields so these youngsters can play somewhere special.
2. Yes, PG can gather data on youngsters and over many years might be able to track something analytically. Who knows, maybe they will even be able to track and predict TJ issues with the long term data, why is it a bad thing? No one is promising anything.
3. Yes, PG is open all year round for showcases. HOWEVER, no one says you have to go to ALL the events. If a kids shutdown period is in December then he's shut down, don't go. This goes back to the parents thinking their 9th grader should have had an offer by now and throwing every event at the kid. It isn't PG's responsibility to turn away the money because the kid has already been in 5 showcases this year. I'd like to see a fast food place tell me I've exceeded the amount of burgers I can buy and consume in a day safely!
4. If people want to pay to have their 8th grader do a showcase then again, more power to them. Several "Major" teams have 14u kids that have already done showcases and while they are outstanding players for 14u then mostly walked away with scores of 7's...why...because they are being compared to full grown 17/18u kids! If you want it on record your 14u kid can throw 75mph, congrats, you can make that happen for $600, but don't blame PG for scamming people, it's called Free Will!
I guess I may have misunderstood about PG showcases. The above post (see #4) is deceiving.
My apologies. I should know better.
Okay, let me be more clear:
1. There are no specific pre-high school showcases.
2. If the player profile lists ONLY pitching velo it is likely from a tourney, not a showcase
3. Some 8th graders and several 9th graders go to the Underclass Showcase, I don't think it is what PG had in mind when they say "Underclass", but they go.
August 2015 (Southeast Underclass Showcase), here are the graduating years and numbers of who attended:
2021 = 0, 2020 = 1, 2019 = 25, 2018 = 51, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was a rising 9th grader.
In the December 2015 Underclass Showcase, per PG website, there were:
2021 = 1, 2020 = 2, 2019 = 86, 2018 = >100, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was in the middle of 9th grade
The two that went that I personally know received a PG score of a 7.5 and a 7. They are both very talented players but being weighed against a 2016 they just couldn't compare and that is my point. It isn't that PG advertised for them to go and showcase their pre-varsity skills their parents signed them up and I'm pretty sure they were disappointed with the results, but that isn't PG's fault.
CaCO3Girl posted:TPM posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint and my son is in 14u.
1. The younger PG events are a big thrill for the under 14u crowd. Since High School baseball is happening during February, March and April Kudos to PG for opening up their vacant fields so these youngsters can play somewhere special.
2. Yes, PG can gather data on youngsters and over many years might be able to track something analytically. Who knows, maybe they will even be able to track and predict TJ issues with the long term data, why is it a bad thing? No one is promising anything.
3. Yes, PG is open all year round for showcases. HOWEVER, no one says you have to go to ALL the events. If a kids shutdown period is in December then he's shut down, don't go. This goes back to the parents thinking their 9th grader should have had an offer by now and throwing every event at the kid. It isn't PG's responsibility to turn away the money because the kid has already been in 5 showcases this year. I'd like to see a fast food place tell me I've exceeded the amount of burgers I can buy and consume in a day safely!
4. If people want to pay to have their 8th grader do a showcase then again, more power to them. Several "Major" teams have 14u kids that have already done showcases and while they are outstanding players for 14u then mostly walked away with scores of 7's...why...because they are being compared to full grown 17/18u kids! If you want it on record your 14u kid can throw 75mph, congrats, you can make that happen for $600, but don't blame PG for scamming people, it's called Free Will!
I guess I may have misunderstood about PG showcases. The above post (see #4) is deceiving.
My apologies. I should know better.
Okay, let me be more clear:
1. There are no specific pre-high school showcases.
2. If the player profile lists ONLY pitching velo it is likely from a tourney, not a showcase
3. Some 8th graders and several 9th graders go to the Underclass Showcase, I don't think it is what PG had in mind when they say "Underclass", but they go.
August 2015 (Southeast Underclass Showcase), here are the graduating years and numbers of who attended:
2021 = 0, 2020 = 1, 2019 = 25, 2018 = 51, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was a rising 9th grader.
In the December 2015 Underclass Showcase, per PG website, there were:
2021 = 1, 2020 = 2, 2019 = 86, 2018 = >100, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was in the middle of 9th grade
The two that went that I personally know received a PG score of a 7.5 and a 7. They are both very talented players but being weighed against a 2016 they just couldn't compare and that is my point. It isn't that PG advertised for them to go and showcase their pre-varsity skills their parents signed them up and I'm pretty sure they were disappointed with the results, but that isn't PG's fault.
Ok now I get it. You really don't know other than two who have attended.
I don't think that I was the only one mislead. Do these several 14u players from major teams attend other showcases?
TPM posted:CaCO3Girl posted:TPM posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I live 20 minutes from Lakepoint and my son is in 14u.
1. The younger PG events are a big thrill for the under 14u crowd. Since High School baseball is happening during February, March and April Kudos to PG for opening up their vacant fields so these youngsters can play somewhere special.
2. Yes, PG can gather data on youngsters and over many years might be able to track something analytically. Who knows, maybe they will even be able to track and predict TJ issues with the long term data, why is it a bad thing? No one is promising anything.
3. Yes, PG is open all year round for showcases. HOWEVER, no one says you have to go to ALL the events. If a kids shutdown period is in December then he's shut down, don't go. This goes back to the parents thinking their 9th grader should have had an offer by now and throwing every event at the kid. It isn't PG's responsibility to turn away the money because the kid has already been in 5 showcases this year. I'd like to see a fast food place tell me I've exceeded the amount of burgers I can buy and consume in a day safely!
4. If people want to pay to have their 8th grader do a showcase then again, more power to them. Several "Major" teams have 14u kids that have already done showcases and while they are outstanding players for 14u then mostly walked away with scores of 7's...why...because they are being compared to full grown 17/18u kids! If you want it on record your 14u kid can throw 75mph, congrats, you can make that happen for $600, but don't blame PG for scamming people, it's called Free Will!
I guess I may have misunderstood about PG showcases. The above post (see #4) is deceiving.
My apologies. I should know better.
Okay, let me be more clear:
1. There are no specific pre-high school showcases.
2. If the player profile lists ONLY pitching velo it is likely from a tourney, not a showcase
3. Some 8th graders and several 9th graders go to the Underclass Showcase, I don't think it is what PG had in mind when they say "Underclass", but they go.
August 2015 (Southeast Underclass Showcase), here are the graduating years and numbers of who attended:
2021 = 0, 2020 = 1, 2019 = 25, 2018 = 51, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was a rising 9th grader.
In the December 2015 Underclass Showcase, per PG website, there were:
2021 = 1, 2020 = 2, 2019 = 86, 2018 = >100, 2017 = >100
At that time a 2019 was in the middle of 9th grade
The two that went that I personally know received a PG score of a 7.5 and a 7. They are both very talented players but being weighed against a 2016 they just couldn't compare and that is my point. It isn't that PG advertised for them to go and showcase their pre-varsity skills their parents signed them up and I'm pretty sure they were disappointed with the results, but that isn't PG's fault.
Ok now I get it. You really don't know other than two who have attended.
I don't think that I was the only one mislead. Do these several 14u players from major teams attend other showcases?
No, you definitely weren't the only one. The discussion assumed a lot of things right off the bat. Actually, my earlier comment wasn't supposed to be directed at your comment in particular on pre-high school showcases, you just happened to be the latest post at the time to make the assumption. It was powerful enough of an assumption that I, who should have known better, actually had to go and check before saying PG didn't have such showcases.
Having said this, I think PG itself has some responsibility for the misunderstanding. When they got into doing youth tournaments in addition to their high school prospect business, it opened the door for some confusion. I very much understood why they got into the business - all very valid reasons. There is no reason they should not have gotten into the business. They are in a unique position in terms of facilities and links to their showcase business that many of these kids will eventually want to take advantage of. However, I can also see where the confusion sets in when the profiles for 12 and 13 yo's are mixed in with the high schoolers, not that I have any big problem with it.