Are your bullet points for HS, college or professional pitchets.
Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
TPM posted:Are your bullet points for HS, college or professional pitchets.
The first three are from ASMI research or ASMI guidelines for youth pitchers -- which I believe ASMI defines to be up to age 18.
playball2011 posted:Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
It's just a measurement. Do kids use clocks? Or grades?
A parent needs to be 'shamed' for using a measuring device? Folks, please.
Do those kids pitching in the Little League World Series know that their velocity is seen by millions watching on television? Hell, they even convert those readings to compare to MLB velocity. People should google Gaining Pitching Velocity. No doubt, there is a fascination with velocity. All the gun does is tell us what the velocity is. If it shows 50mph there isn't much danger involved. If it shows 100mph, arm care becomes a much bigger concern.
IMO it's not about trying to throw hard. It's about having the ability to throw real hard. Trying doesn't make it happen! A pitcher that is capable of throwing 70 trying to throw 90? Nope it ain't happening! The best he can do is 70 mph no matter how hard he might try. After all, he had to try hard to reach whatever velocity he is capable of.
BTW, I certainly respect the opinions of others commenting on the subject of arm care. We need more discussion from experienced people. I try to have an open mind because arm care is a very important subject.
I just see it as a risk and reward issue. I'm fairly convinced that without any risk it is hard to expect much of a reward. Every time a pitcher toes the rubber he is at risk. Then again, there is a point when the risk is too big.
PGStaff posted:BTW, I certainly respect the opinions of others commenting on the subject of arm care. We need more discussion from experienced people. I try to have an open mind because arm care is a very important subject.
I just see it as a risk and reward issue. I'm fairly convinced that without any risk it is hard to expect much of a reward. Every time a pitcher toes the rubber he is at risk. Then again, there is a point when the risk is too big.
The thing is we all know there are things that increase the likelihood of hurting a youth pitcher's arm, but it isn't an exact science.
You can follow every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could still need TJ surgery by 18.
You could break every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could never require TJ surgery.
It's all about educating and using common sense . Why is that concept so difficult.
Seriously, I agree with the radar gun on the 9 year old, is it really necessary? Radar guns are great tools, no question about that. You dont need a radar gun to know someone is throwing hard. You just need to know that if he is, don't let others take advantage of him and learn to say NO!
CaCO3Girl posted:PGStaff posted:BTW, I certainly respect the opinions of others commenting on the subject of arm care. We need more discussion from experienced people. I try to have an open mind because arm care is a very important subject.
I just see it as a risk and reward issue. I'm fairly convinced that without any risk it is hard to expect much of a reward. Every time a pitcher toes the rubber he is at risk. Then again, there is a point when the risk is too big.
The thing is we all know there are things that increase the likelihood of hurting a youth pitcher's arm, but it isn't an exact science.
You can follow every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could still need TJ surgery by 18.
You could break every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could never require TJ surgery.
there are smokers who become 95 years old and People who drink and drive and never have an accident as well as guys living healthy and dying at Age 30 from cancer but that doesn't mean that we should ignore all the Guidelines.
after all we know throwing a lot of innings and chasing velocity early in a pitchers career does increase the likelyhood of injury and still People do it.
it would be unfair to blame PG, as they probably do more for injury prevention than HS and college Baseball combined and certainly are not abusing pitchers but I think the culture of showcasing and "getting on the Radar early is not helping the cause.
it is not PG alone but all the Showcases around there causing parents to push the Kids. the Kids who pitch at PG at Age 15 are Training for velocity since they are 12 so that they can light the gun at Age 15.
of course that is not PGs fault but more the Colleges who look for 15 year olds. PG is simply offering what is demanded and as PG staff said, velocity is the biggest danger for the arm but there is no alternative for it because velocity is what Teams want since it is effective (if you have command).
the question is if you really Need to Train 12-14 year olds hard for velocity so they can light the gun at Age 15 or if it would be better to take the Training easy until they are 13-14 and then build up the arm so that they are ready to light the gun at Age 16-17. but as the process is now that is pobably too late so that the arms Need to be trained hard during the critical puberty years.
Dominik85 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:The thing is we all know there are things that increase the likelihood of hurting a youth pitcher's arm, but it isn't an exact science.
You can follow every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could still need TJ surgery by 18.
You could break every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could never require TJ surgery.
there are smokers who become 95 years old and People who drink and drive and never have an accident as well as guys living healthy and dying at Age 30 from cancer but that doesn't mean that we should ignore all the Guidelines.
after all we know throwing a lot of innings and chasing velocity early in a pitchers career does increase the likelyhood of injury and still People do it.
it would be unfair to blame PG, as they probably do more for injury prevention than HS and college Baseball combined and certainly are not abusing pitchers but I think the culture of showcasing and "getting on the Radar early is not helping the cause.
it is not PG alone but all the Showcases around there causing parents to push the Kids. the Kids who pitch at PG at Age 15 are Training for velocity since they are 12 so that they can light the gun at Age 15.
of course that is not PGs fault but more the Colleges who look for 15 year olds. PG is simply offering what is demanded and as PG staff said, velocity is the biggest danger for the arm but there is no alternative for it because velocity is what Teams want since it is effective (if you have command).
the question is if you really Need to Train 12-14 year olds hard for velocity so they can light the gun at Age 15 or if it would be better to take the Training easy until they are 13-14 and then build up the arm so that they are ready to light the gun at Age 16-17. but as the process is now that is pobably too late so that the arms Need to be trained hard during the critical puberty years.
You are generalizing and also making a good point.
I can say with 100% certainty that my 14u kid has NEVER been trained for velocity. He has been trained to zone in on and understand his mechanics so if something isn't working he can adjust, but it has never been about velocity, that's just a bonus of proper mechanics.
The flip side is, if it is true that D1 colleges are locking in their recruiting class on an earlier timeline than they use to, it will make kids strive to peak unnaturally earlier in an attempt to get noticed by a specific type of school on the shortened time line.
Dominik85 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:PGStaff posted:BTW, I certainly respect the opinions of others commenting on the subject of arm care. We need more discussion from experienced people. I try to have an open mind because arm care is a very important subject.
I just see it as a risk and reward issue. I'm fairly convinced that without any risk it is hard to expect much of a reward. Every time a pitcher toes the rubber he is at risk. Then again, there is a point when the risk is too big.
The thing is we all know there are things that increase the likelihood of hurting a youth pitcher's arm, but it isn't an exact science.
You can follow every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could still need TJ surgery by 18.
You could break every single ASMI suggestion and your kid could never require TJ surgery.
there are smokers who become 95 years old and People who drink and drive and never have an accident as well as guys living healthy and dying at Age 30 from cancer but that doesn't mean that we should ignore all the Guidelines.
after all we know throwing a lot of innings and chasing velocity early in a pitchers career does increase the likelyhood of injury and still People do it.
it would be unfair to blame PG, as they probably do more for injury prevention than HS and college Baseball combined and certainly are not abusing pitchers but I think the culture of showcasing and "getting on the Radar early is not helping the cause.
it is not PG alone but all the Showcases around there causing parents to push the Kids. the Kids who pitch at PG at Age 15 are Training for velocity since they are 12 so that they can light the gun at Age 15.
of course that is not PGs fault but more the Colleges who look for 15 year olds. PG is simply offering what is demanded and as PG staff said, velocity is the biggest danger for the arm but there is no alternative for it because velocity is what Teams want since it is effective (if you have command).
the question is if you really Need to Train 12-14 year olds hard for velocity so they can light the gun at Age 15 or if it would be better to take the Training easy until they are 13-14 and then build up the arm so that they are ready to light the gun at Age 16-17. but as the process is now that is pobably too late so that the arms Need to be trained hard during the critical puberty years.
I would argue that a lot of that "velocity training" focuses on arm health and probably allows some kids who begin at 12-14 to learn how to train for velocity correctly and in relative safety. If you look closely at some of the more prominent programs out there you will find many that have pretty good records concerning injury prevention. Training for velocity and arm health aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I would guess a majority of those who seriously take on velocity training are kids who were going to throw hard anyway and the inclusion of a well-run program with competent instruction lessens their chances of arm problems.
playball2011 posted:Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
I guess, from this comment, that the idea is spreading that PG is putting up profiles with velocity speeds for 9yos. No, that isn't happening. I don't even think PG has events for that young of an age and I know they aren't posting velocities for 9yo's. Nor is anyone else that I know of.
edit: I was dead wrong here. PG does, indeed, profile 9yo pitching velocities. Not sure how I think about it, though. I find it more amusing than alarming.
roothog66 posted:playball2011 posted:Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
I guess, from this comment, that the idea is spreading that PG is putting up profiles with velocity speeds for 9yos. No, that isn't happening. I don't even think PG has events for that young of an age and I know they aren't posting velocities for 9yo's. Nor is anyone else that I know of.
GRRRRR...one more time here. On a rare occasion PG will hold 9u tournaments.
http://www.perfectgame.org/Eve...ault.aspx?event=2695
During ALL PG tournaments the pitchers are radared, for attending a PG tournament the player receives a profile if to say nothing else other than he played in a PG event for team X. if a 9u kid pitches during that event his highest speed will be listed on his profile page.
If you go to that link you can see who holds the record for the fastest in a 9u tournament, it was 65mph thrown by a 4'4, 65# kid.
This was NOT a showcase it was a tournament where the pitching was radared, as it is at all PG tourneys.
I would argue that training for daddy-coaches, trophy-chasing tournament coaches and league/tournament/event operators for age 12-14 year olds is far more important than any velocity training for kids in that age group.
Oh yeah - parent training would be good too! It woulda helped me to do a little better.
CaCO3Girl posted:roothog66 posted:playball2011 posted:Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
I guess, from this comment, that the idea is spreading that PG is putting up profiles with velocity speeds for 9yos. No, that isn't happening. I don't even think PG has events for that young of an age and I know they aren't posting velocities for 9yo's. Nor is anyone else that I know of.
GRRRRR...one more time here. On a rare occasion PG will hold 9u tournaments.
http://www.perfectgame.org/Eve...ault.aspx?event=2695
During ALL PG tournaments the pitchers are radared, for attending a PG tournament the player receives a profile if to say nothing else other than he played in a PG event for team X. if a 9u kid pitches during that event his highest speed will be listed on his profile page.
If you go to that link you can see who holds the record for the fastest in a 9u tournament, it was 65mph thrown by a 4'4, 65# kid.
This was NOT a showcase it was a tournament where the pitching was radared, as it is at all PG tourneys.
Sorry. I can see you are right. I just didn't see anything younger than 11u on the schedule. On the other hand, those number from a kid that size almost seem like a joke, don't they?
justbaseball posted:I would argue that training for daddy-coaches, trophy-chasing tournament coaches and league/tournament/event operators for age 12-14 year olds is far more important than any velocity training for kids in that age group.
Go ahead and start a program and see how many sign up for that. Lol.
By the way, any "velocity" training for 12yo's focuses more on correct mechanics and general strength work and isn't likely to include a lot of advanced apparatus work. I for example, teach velocity solely by mechanical changes and "intent" that are as much for arm health as for velocity - the two often go hand-in-hand. They can start with weighted balls, plyo-work, etc. when they are more mature. I don't personally believe it's unsafe at younger ages, just not likely to be of any use. I find that preferable to kids just trying to find ways to throw hard through trial and error. When I was a kid, we threw as hard as we could quite often and changed mechanics willy-nilly in a search for more velocity, even if we didn't have numbers to go by. Incidentally, those that did throw the hardest generally were pitched WAY too much. Velocity has always been the goal of pitchers, be they nine or nineteen - yes, even before the radar gun. I think the training we use now makes it a far safer journey than in the even recent past.
CaCO3Girl posted:roothog66 posted:playball2011 posted:Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
I guess, from this comment, that the idea is spreading that PG is putting up profiles with velocity speeds for 9yos. No, that isn't happening. I don't even think PG has events for that young of an age and I know they aren't posting velocities for 9yo's. Nor is anyone else that I know of.
GRRRRR...one more time here. On a rare occasion PG will hold 9u tournaments.
http://www.perfectgame.org/Eve...ault.aspx?event=2695
During ALL PG tournaments the pitchers are radared, for attending a PG tournament the player receives a profile if to say nothing else other than he played in a PG event for team X. if a 9u kid pitches during that event his highest speed will be listed on his profile page.
If you go to that link you can see who holds the record for the fastest in a 9u tournament, it was 65mph thrown by a 4'4, 65# kid.
This was NOT a showcase it was a tournament where the pitching was radared, as it is at all PG tourneys.
Oh, man, CaCOGirl3, why'd you have to post that? This is bad news. It means my 9 year old, who also happens to be 65 lbs. (I'm not sure about his height, though 4'4" sounds about right) is WAAAYYYY behind!!
2019Dad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:roothog66 posted:playball2011 posted:Did someone on here say 9 yr olds were given a number using the gun during tournaments?
How foolish.
This gets the parents interested in numbers WAY too early. Kids at this age need to be working on good mechanics, learning about fastballs then eventually work to develop a change up. Shame on any adult who thinks its important to know velocity of a 9 yr old.
I guess, from this comment, that the idea is spreading that PG is putting up profiles with velocity speeds for 9yos. No, that isn't happening. I don't even think PG has events for that young of an age and I know they aren't posting velocities for 9yo's. Nor is anyone else that I know of.
GRRRRR...one more time here. On a rare occasion PG will hold 9u tournaments.
http://www.perfectgame.org/Eve...ault.aspx?event=2695
During ALL PG tournaments the pitchers are radared, for attending a PG tournament the player receives a profile if to say nothing else other than he played in a PG event for team X. if a 9u kid pitches during that event his highest speed will be listed on his profile page.
If you go to that link you can see who holds the record for the fastest in a 9u tournament, it was 65mph thrown by a 4'4, 65# kid.
This was NOT a showcase it was a tournament where the pitching was radared, as it is at all PG tourneys.
Oh, man, CaCOGirl3, why'd you have to post that? This is bad news. It means my 9 year old, who also happens to be 65 lbs. (I'm not sure about his height, though 4'4" sounds about right) is WAAAYYYY behind!!
Thankfully I know you are joking 2019 but you might be surprised by the amount of people who think that way. When my son was 9u he wanted to pitch, don't ALL kids, but the coach said he was "too accurate" and that every pitcher on his team took private lessons to learn placement and if my son wanted to pitch we should look into those. Needless to say I didn't "look into those" until he was 12u, had a coach that wanted him to pitch, and within a week my son said his elbow hurt after he threw. Only then did I even think about pitching lessons.
The instructor was great and had my son "fixed" in under 2 minutes. He now goes 1-2 per month March-July to make sure he hasn't picked up a hiccup. There are no weighted balls, no work outs for pitcher specific training, the man let's my son throw and if it's not exactly where his glove was he asks why did it go there, what did you do differently, how can you adjust....and that is the crux of the pitching lesson pretty much every time. He gets my son to think about what he threw and why it went that way. Would you call that velocity training?
I still stand by my statement. Don't care if it happens at PG Tournaments or anywhere else. No reason to radar a 9 yr old, wether it's listed on a profile or not. The fact that 9 yr olds are traveling the country to play in tournaments is crazy IMO. Parents would be better using money for lessons from some good teachers out there and play locally until they are older. The amount of money some parents spend so early on sports is mind boggling to me. I know a family who spent about $20,000 over 5 yrs and their son got burnt out and never played in college. Their son was playing on several teams, flying to tournaments several times a yr, and buying every new piece of equipment son wanted.
My advice is to make a budget and stick to it. There will be many "opportunities" to play and be seen. Choose ones with best chance of return. The players can have fun playing many places, just how much are you willing to pay for fun?
Ordered my copy of book, look forward to rdg it.
"My advice is to make a budget and stick to it. There will be many "opportunities" to play and be seen. Choose ones with best chance of return. The players can have fun playing many places, just how much are you willing to pay for fun?"
Great advice.
I have a 19 year old JC1 pitcher who did not play this spring and dropped out to just train. He will be 93-96 and is 6'8" with a plus slider and good change. Do you think there is any chance he won't get drafted this year? I am pretty sure there will be enough scouts interested after I post a simple YouTube video of him verifiably sitting mid-90's.
"Exposure" works both ways, remember. If you throw 75 or 95, they remember. And the more you do it, the more that impression is set in their mind - good AND bad.
Kyle Boddy posted:"I have a 19 year old JC1 pitcher who did not play this spring and dropped out to just train. He will be 93-96 and is 6'8"
The Snowman!
playball2011 posted:I still stand by my statement. Don't care if it happens at PG Tournaments or anywhere else. No reason to radar a 9 yr old, wether it's listed on a profile or not. The fact that 9 yr olds are traveling the country to play in tournaments is crazy IMO. Parents would be better using money for lessons from some good teachers out there and play locally until they are older. The amount of money some parents spend so early on sports is mind boggling to me. I know a family who spent about $20,000 over 5 yrs and their son got burnt out and never played in college. Their son was playing on several teams, flying to tournaments several times a yr, and buying every new piece of equipment son wanted.
My advice is to make a budget and stick to it. There will be many "opportunities" to play and be seen. Choose ones with best chance of return. The players can have fun playing many places, just how much are you willing to pay for fun?
Ordered my copy of book, look forward to rdg it.
You ASSUME they are "traveling the country". In the tournament I listed the link for there were 3 teams from TN, one team from SC, and the 26 were from GA. It was a weekend tournament, not a 5 day tourney. The cost of the standard weekend tournament was $495, which is roughly the same amount a triple crown tournament would be.
To let my 9u kid play on a turf field where the big boys play at a nationally recognized place...yeah I would spend two nights in a hotel with my kid. For all you know a parent on the team had mega Marriott points and it only cost them gas to get there.
Not every move a parent makes is to set up their kid for MLB stardom, I don't understand why people don't get that. Having a new experience, playing with other high level teams, and having an adventure sounds right up a 9 year olds alley! I'm not saying your advice to stick to a budget isn't sound advice, it absolutely is, but sometimes it isn't about an opportunity to play and be seen it's just about kids having FUN!
CaCO3Girl posted:playball2011 posted:I still stand by my statement. Don't care if it happens at PG Tournaments or anywhere else. No reason to radar a 9 yr old, wether it's listed on a profile or not. The fact that 9 yr olds are traveling the country to play in tournaments is crazy IMO. Parents would be better using money for lessons from some good teachers out there and play locally until they are older. The amount of money some parents spend so early on sports is mind boggling to me. I know a family who spent about $20,000 over 5 yrs and their son got burnt out and never played in college. Their son was playing on several teams, flying to tournaments several times a yr, and buying every new piece of equipment son wanted.
My advice is to make a budget and stick to it. There will be many "opportunities" to play and be seen. Choose ones with best chance of return. The players can have fun playing many places, just how much are you willing to pay for fun?
Ordered my copy of book, look forward to rdg it.
You ASSUME they are "traveling the country". In the tournament I listed the link for there were 3 teams from TN, one team from SC, and the 26 were from GA. It was a weekend tournament, not a 5 day tourney. The cost of the standard weekend tournament was $495, which is roughly the same amount a triple crown tournament would be.
To let my 9u kid play on a turf field where the big boys play at a nationally recognized place...yeah I would spend two nights in a hotel with my kid. For all you know a parent on the team had mega Marriott points and it only cost them gas to get there.
Not every move a parent makes is to set up their kid for MLB stardom, I don't understand why people don't get that. Having a new experience, playing with other high level teams, and having an adventure sounds right up a 9 year olds alley! I'm not saying your advice to stick to a budget isn't sound advice, it absolutely is, but sometimes it isn't about an opportunity to play and be seen it's just about kids having FUN!
I personally think that playing tournaments on a college field is more impressive. My sons biggest thrill was playing in these stadiums, or even stepping onto a ML team. FWIW, not everyone enjoys playing on turf fields.
At 9 we kept it realistic, learn to play the game, enjoy and some day you might get to play on those fields and where the colors.
I agree with playball's advice.Keep in mind that you live close to this venue, your costs are minimal. Something I have said over and over for years and year, one DOES NOT have to break the bank to enjoy the game. Plan accordingly, it gets more expensive as your son enters HS and college is VERY VERY expensive.
Just to be clear, not many teams in the youngest age groups travel long distances to play at LakePoint. In fact most of the teams are from the Atlanta area. What is wrong or bad about any age kid wanting to play on a field without bad hops, the best lighting system in baseball, turf fields, good umpiring, digital scoreboards, etc.? Is there something wrong with that. Heck it might be the only opportunity some of those kids ever get to play in a place like that. The portable fences are set up and it sure looks like those kids are enjoying it. It is clearly obvious that the kids enjoy playing there. And for our people it is enjoyable to watch the younger kids play.
Why would anyone be against it? I still remember specific plays in games I played in at age 9. maybe some of the rest of you can do the same thing. I am now 69 years old. Those experiences at 9 are partly responsible for turning me into a life long baseball nut. Some, if not many, of these young kids will remember playing at Lake Point the rest of their lives. the same fields that many DI colleges play on in the spring, the same fields that many of the best HS players in the country played on. we have held some events there that are free of charge for very young kids. You see parents taking pictures as their kids are having a blast. Everyone is having fun so is that something bad? It would make me very happy if any of this helped create a life long baseball nut like me. That is just as important as creating next level players. When kids are having fun we feel we are promoting the game of baseball.
Kyle Boddy posted:First excerpt is up. I hope you all enjoy it.
Excluding the chapter on me (seems unfair to review myself), I thought the book was quite good.
Kyle, I want to get a copy. Does the Kindle version look OK or would I be better buying the actual book? I have an older Kindle so pics/charts etc don't always display as well. If the book has a lot of these I would buy the actual book. Thoughts?
Can't say I know on the Kindle side. Not many charts or formatted things in the book though. Should be fine.
I have the Kindle version and it was fine. I don't recall anything out of sorts.
For one, I am forever grateful to Jerry and PG. My son is a late bloomer and wasnt in my opinion ready to brought to "the marketplace" that Jerry has so smartly created particularly since universities have little or no recruiting budget. My son was observed this past fall by many universities in Ft Myers and the National WWBA Underclasss, and accepted a D! baseball scholarship as a junior in high school. He's never been to a showcase but has played in 4 PG team tournaments with responsible coaches. Parents just need to be smart on how and when they bring their kids into the marketplace.
I just read an interview Cressey conducted with Passan where Passan states:
"Major League Baseball's greatest failure was allowing a for-profit company to co-opt its pipeline. As much as Perfect Game wants to claim moral superiority and a concern for the arms of children, reality tells a different story. Showcases 11 months of the year. Radar guns trained on infielders throwing across the diamond. Out-of-control pitch counts for arms simply too young to handle the workload. And that's to say nothing of actively seeking out sub-standard players to fill out an event."
While some of the book contains extremely pertinent and interesting information, much of it, like this statement is simply irresponsible journalism. His fix for driving out showcase ball? He would have MLB hold two combines a year and, apparently, not allow major league teams to scout showcase ball. He acts as if MLB has some right to control all of baseball and how it is run. Right. MLB teams are going to limit their scouting to a couple of combines and some high school games? I don't think so. Additionally, his claims that PG encourages "out of control" pitch counts and "actively" seeks out sub-standard players seem to be difficult contentions to support. In his world, who, exactly, would be given the power to determine which players are worthy of exposure and which are not. I've been silent on the subject up until now (wanted to read it before commenting), but I find many of the "facts" he presents to be unsupportable.
roothog66 posted:I just read an interview Cressey conducted with Passan where Passan states:
"Major League Baseball's greatest failure was allowing a for-profit company to co-opt its pipeline.
Holy crap that's about the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard a "journalist" make. Does he even hear himself?
Its pipeline? Hell - why not put MLB in charge of all of baseball all the way down to LL t-ball? Is that not their pipeline? Why does MLB have dominion over all of baseball? Is there a problem with all those colleges tapping into this pipeline?
Not to mention the whole "for profit" angle. Because as we all know, the MLB exists only to protect the future health of America's youth.
It's become pretty obvious that Passan has an issue with PG, and is willing to say whatever it takes to further his agenda. Facts and logic be damned.
We created the Area Code games in 1987 with the support of MLB. The players who were selected paid no fees. Check the history of the games.
Bob
Consultant posted:We created the Area Code games in 1987 with the support of MLB. The players who were selected paid no fees. Check the history of the games.
Bob
What if, instead of supporting you, MLB had forbid scouts from coming to your event? Do you even think MLB could have made that work? That's what Passan would suggest.
Of course, the other problem with Passan's idea is that he somehow assumes that only pro ball has an interest in scouting players. I do believe I've seen a college or two represented at PG events. I would guess that if MLB totally boycotted PG (as if they would - what a laugh), no way could you get colleges to follow suit. The advantages in having an organization that can present hundreds of prospects to them in one place at one time is far too valuable a resource to give up.
As for holding showcases 11 months a year, who cares? In my opinion, this actually encourages multi-sport athletes and crucial time off from baseball. There are kids who need a physical break after the spring season. Others do not. So, rather than pitch through injuries or exhaustion, a pitcher has the opportunity to delay his exposure to, say fall and winter. It gives athletes the opportunity to manage exposure opportunities on their own timetable rather than one set by PG, MLB, etc. Now, of course, there are those who will go to showcase after showcase for a longer period of time than is healthy, but, really, is it PG's responsibility to manage their time for them? What happened to personal responsibility?
The Pro Scouts and Scouting Directors were involved as advisors. Every year we "fine turned" the event. My role was the Organizer and goal was to produce the players. We averaged over $35 million in signing bonus and played the games on one field. The clinics with ML players [Eric Davis, Dusty Baker] was one of the "highlight". Each year the top players were selected to play the Japan National HS team in our Goodwill Series event [1983-2016].
Bob
I really don't care to read this book based on some of the comments I've read so far. But, I am wondering if Passan is singling out PG or whether he simply uses them as a convenient example given the name recognition. I'm not the absolute biggest fan of PG, but this is by way of association and not direct participation. I think "travel ball" has ruined a good number of park/rec leagues, however "travel ball" is just a name and the actual folks responsible include several categories including for-profit coaches (some of whom are the absolute worst culprits here) along with parents. Parents fall into the several categories themselves including gullible (for-profit coach tells them their kid is the next Kershaw - assuming he takes the appropriate number of lessons), living-through-their-kid parents (who actually push their kid to dangerous levels and may know better) as well as the uninformed (who simply fail to secure the basic level of information to protect their kid - reasons for remaining uninformed vary).
I realize that a parent cannot control all aspects of a kids life. However, if a kid travels to a PG tournament from out of state, then that implies that the parents have basically underwritten the trip and more likely have underwritten the kid's participation on a travel team and have shelled out the necessary dollars. I hold the parents responsible for any team-sanctioned activity at a PG event. An analogy might be buying your 16yo kid a new Ford Mustang on their 16th birthday - knowing full well that the kid is not responsible enough to not cause damage to the car or themselves in the near future. Do I blame the kid 100% for wrecking the car? Do I blame the dealership for selling the car? No - I blame the parents for buying the kid a Mustang when he might be best off not driving anything until he grows up some more. Why are the parents getting left off the hook in favor of placing blame on an organization that has so little control over what these kids actually do over the course of their season. Kind of like killing the messenger while letting lots of irresponsible parents off the hook.
There are some terrible rec ball programs, and there are some good travel ball programs, I know some horrible high school teams full of terrible rec ballers. Its still up to the families to decide what their tolerance level is. Some dads want to go to the lake and drink beer 3 out of 4 weekends, and others like to load the SUV up with Gatorade and sunflower seeds and chase baseball every weekend. I myself had no problem with practice on Tuesday and Thursday and games all weekend, but I know lots of people who wouldn't do the same for their kid.
The drunk dad on the pontoon is also mad and confused that his boy didnt make the high school team...hmmm go figure!
Playing devil's advocate........
Like it or not Passan seems to be using PG as the largest common denominator. His inaccuracies are from his perspective, an outside perspective. Jerry has thousands of folks that will back him, along with countless MLB players.
Passan can't out the parent that demands their players pitch a demanding amount of innings, it's not targeted enough and way too broad. Truth of the matter, TJ is a real concern from the medical community and the witch hunt will continue until they can pin it on somebody.
Parents are using college recruiting like winning the lottery (the more they play, the better the chance) and to a degree it could be, but recruiting occurs earlier every passing year. In the end, colleges are largely to blame because they attempt to "out recruit" the competition, so why not start before the other............what a vicious cycle that has an indirect impact on the number of games and tournaments played. Nobody wants to be left behind and now the chase is on!
Just the other day, I was taking in a local HS game, only to turn around and observe a coach and his trusty "JUG's" gun trained on 9 year old pitchers on an adjacent field, demanding they throw harder! There was no emphasis on proper mechanics or arm slot, nothing but velocity.
I have no choice but to believe that baseball needs standards for coaching, age appropriate skill blocks and just let kids play the game, free from ill-informed coaches and that can only be achieved through further education.
" Hell - why not put MLB in charge of all of baseball all the way down to LL t-ball? " - In the sport of Ice Hockey, you would be referring to USA Hockey, who does in fact dictate to all affiliates in the United States, short of the great state of Minnesota. In Canada, they have a similar governing body in Hockey Canada, both of which do require classroom training for age appropriate coaching, for various levels of certification. When they implemented the certification training for all coaches, former pro's and/or just dad's, it was really frowned upon. Fast forward a few years, it does work, making the game safer and more skill oriented for the kids.
I'm contend there is no crisis, only people screaming crisis. The game is in great shape, from youth to pro's.
But that sells no books.
Enjoy the ride!
Go44dad posted:I'm contend there is no crisis, only people screaming crisis. The game is in great shape, from youth to pro's.
But that sells no books.
Enjoy the ride!
Very similar to NFL and concussions,....hell I must be some kind of a Wizbang, I could of told you 50 years ago that getting hit in the head by 250lb linebackers might be harmful.
I will say this, there is a lot of false information regarding PG and me in that book.
i haven't read the entire book but I would guess there is some real good information in it.
I never worry about those people that know us. They know we aren't Perfect and they know we sincerely try to help kids that play baseball. We also have so many friends in the industry and that includes some at every level including MLB front offices and the Commissioners Office.
We certainly don't want bad players to showcase their lack of ability. Passan went to one PG event. Last year's National Showcase in Ft Myers. About 300 players with every single one of them being a high level draft or college prospect. In this year's draft there will be a very large number of early round picks that were there. I don't think he even noticed what was going on. 50 of them ended up in our All American Game. In the 2015 draft from that one game were players that signed for over $60 million signing bonus last summer.
Not sure the author did much research on us. Because he would have known that the industry he claims has so much enmity towards PG has a very long list of participants that attended PG events. That Ned Yost and Bobby Cox are partners. That many former Major League stars, even Hall of Famers, Major League Managers, GMs, Scouting Directors, scouts, etc., have sent their kids to our events. How can things like that happen if everyone hates you? Our relationship with college coaches couldn't be much better. Wouldn't all of these be baseball insiders? Truth is we pretty much get along with most everybody in baseball. Those that we find out don't like us, for the most part don't even know us. Or in some cases we have not allowed them to push us around.
Here is what I think. The main reason for TJ surgeries is BASEBALL. Everyone involved in baseball, including Perfect Game, should be responsible. But to be singled out with false information when we have always tried hard to protect pitchers, is really unfair. I think the author knew he need some sensationalism in his book. Some of what he said about PG had nothing at all to do with TJ surgery and everything to do with another agenda.
I talked to the author for quite awhile one day, he pretty much left out everything I said and twisted the rest around to meet his needs. I volunteered to be interviewed because I was led to believe he wanted the truth as I saw it. I gave it to him, but he decided to go a different direction.
This is the only place I have even mentioned the book.
Sometime this week we will post a response to Passan's book on our website. If anyone is interested in hearing the truth please check it out.