The elephant in the room returns

rynoattack posted:

I have been lurking, reading comments, and reading the linked articles.  Truthfully, the situation is a tragedy, and on one hand, he did admit to the crime; on the other hand, I believe he had some REALLY bad legal advice, and was nudged by his family to admit to something that he has stated numerous times he did not do.  Since his family thought this was the easiest way to go, record would be sealed, grand daughter wouldn't have to testify, least amount of punishment in light of the proposed punishments, potential to lose the case (because once your accused of that crime, you are guilty in this country.), etc., it appears they pushed their son into a bad deal.  Not to mention the kid was 13 - 15 years old!  

I for one cannot condemn a kid for life, especially since he has shown signs of functionality in our society after his punishment.  He will carry a stigma with him for the rest of his life, and that is quite a punishment in and of itself.  I wish they would let the boy play.  Sign him as a free agent with stipulations for constant counseling.

But why would you assume he is innocent?

What we know:

- he was charged with this

-he admitted he did it

- he was sentenced

- many years later after not being drafted once he suddenly says he didn't do it, just before the draft.

Now it is possible his family are terrible human beings who threw him under the bus but it seems more likely that his advisor went to him and said "look, you weren't drafted last year, let's try a different route" and then he invented a story to save his career (which didn't work of course and made many people hate him more because now he is a sex criminal who denies it.

Looks like he's put off any ideas of "ending it all" to deal with Minnesota first. Got to give the kid some credit. To watch his dream of playing in the biggs disappear and come back to pitch this well..... 

Dominik85 posted:

rynoattack posted:

I have been lurking, reading comments, and reading the linked articles.  Truthfully, the situation is a tragedy, and on one hand, he did admit to the crime; on the other hand, I believe he had some REALLY bad legal advice, and was nudged by his family to admit to something that he has stated numerous times he did not do.  Since his family thought this was the easiest way to go, record would be sealed, grand daughter wouldn't have to testify, least amount of punishment in light of the proposed punishments, potential to lose the case (because once your accused of that crime, you are guilty in this country.), etc., it appears they pushed their son into a bad deal.  Not to mention the kid was 13 - 15 years old!  

I for one cannot condemn a kid for life, especially since he has shown signs of functionality in our society after his punishment.  He will carry a stigma with him for the rest of his life, and that is quite a punishment in and of itself.  I wish they would let the boy play.  Sign him as a free agent with stipulations for constant counseling.

But why would you assume he is innocent?

What we know:

- he was charged with this

-he admitted he did it

- he was sentenced

- many years later after not being drafted once he suddenly says he didn't do it, just before the draft.

Now it is possible his family are terrible human beings who threw him under the bus but it seems more likely that his advisor went to him and said "look, you weren't drafted last year, let's try a different route" and then he invented a story to save his career (which didn't work of course and made many people hate him more because now he is a sex criminal who denies it.

Apparently you adhere to the whole "never let the facts get in the way" thing, but the kid has maintained his innocents since day one. 

Dominik85 posted:

GaryMe posted:

I've never seen so many people who know so little about a situation have such polarizing opinions on it. Someone brought Monica Lewinsky into this...really? She was a 22-24 year old adult woman when that went down. How is that even relevant to a 15 year old boy convicted of child molestation?

I don't think anyone can come on here and act holier than thou and state this kid should/shouldn't get a shot. Things will play out, and his life will go on, likely outside of baseball.

Really May? A Clinton reference? You are better than that, but maybe not.

I'm not sure he will ever be able to live a normal life. He is a nationally known child molester who was a famous baseball player. Why would any company ever hire him? Or a woman marry him? His life literally could be over at age 20. 

I don't know if could continue living in his situation. If he really didn't do it it would have been terrible by his family literally ending his life with this but I can't see why his family would do that to him. Now I don't know the exact situation but usually if there are rumors like this it is true especially if he actually did confess. You don't confess such a thing easily.

Now it is bad that he was just 15 and he now likely won't ever get a second chance in life but then again the kid also doesn't get a second chance and probably can't have a health life either. Not an easy situation.

Away from the baseball community and the Northwest I doubt he’s known. He could change his name and move.

Cman posted:

For anyone who hasn't read it, I've linked to the Portland Tribune article below. It contains a bunch of information not covered in other articles, including a polygraph test.

https://portlandtribune.com/pt...for-beavers-baseball

Thanks for posting that.  I Ann late to the party here.  But sure seems to me there is plenty of reason to believe in his innocence and by any measure enough doubt to afford the kid an opportunity.  

Midlo Dad posted:

I think we as a society need to get our thoughts straight -- on exactly what Coach May pointed out.

Here in VA, the big push over recent years has been the restoration of felons' rights.  "They've paid their debt to society, they're being disenfranchised," etc.  On the other hand, the folks behind that push NEVER want to give back the right to bear arms.  So even the advocates still want to treat the ex-cons as second-class citizens, forever. 

But along comes Michael Vick, and he abused/killed dogs, and suddenly the talk is that he should never be permitted to draw an NFL paycheck ever again.  It reminded me of the joke about people who will eat hamburgers but not venison.  ("I can't bring myself to eat a CUTE animal, but those big fat ugly ones are OK on my plate!")  It seems that we don't do a very good job of sorting out what we really think and developing sound and consistent rules.  What Michael Vick did was nowhere nearly as heinous as the crimes of many others, but people frothed at the mouth like he had been a serial killer.  Because, hey, dogs are cute!

The point is, we have laws and courts and judges and juries for a reason.  And we have a democratic republic system of government, so that each and every one of us gets to weigh in on what the rules ought to be.

If you adopt rules, enforce them, and then the guy is left free to try to make a living, then WHY CAN'T HE GO MAKE THE BEST LIVING HE CAN MAKE?

The guy is going to be living somewhere.  He's going to breathe and walks the streets of some neighborhood.  He's going to live near someone's children.  Does it help that situation any to render him unemployed and unemployable?  What if making millions helps him to get psychiatric treatment, so as to fend off his illicit urges more effectively?  What if being under the public microscope helps to keep him in check?

I guess I just don't understand this attitude that pro sports are off limits to ex-cons.  Or even for wife beaters, for that matter.  If they belong in jail, by all means, put them there.  If you've already decided to free them, then ... THEY ARE FREE.

Quite candidly, the NFL's problem is that they started cowtowing to the ESPN PC talking heads, and now the confusion of all their causes du jour is killing them.  If I were to replace Roger Goodell, I would hold a press conference to announce that I was going to run a football league as an entertainment venue, and that as far as I was concerned, the business venture was not there to serve as anyone's political platform, no matter what their point of view.  Employees can go do as they please, but only on their own time and in their own place.  I don't think players should be using game time to make political statements, any more than I let my secretary use my law firm's blog to vent her views.  Whether or not I agree with her is beside the point.  I don't pay her to hurt my business by running off half my clientele.

The very last thing MLB needs is to follow the NFL down this rathole.  Let the courts decide how much the guy should be punished.  And keep the workplace out of it.

Midlo that was one of the most on point posts I have read here over the four years I have been here.  Drop the mic.  

2020dad posted:

Cman posted:

For anyone who hasn't read it, I've linked to the Portland Tribune article below. It contains a bunch of information not covered in other articles, including a polygraph test.

https://portlandtribune.com/pt...for-beavers-baseball

Thanks for posting that.  I Ann late to the party here.  But sure seems to me there is plenty of reason to believe in his innocence and by any measure enough doubt to afford the kid an opportunity.  

I doubt any MLB team is going to go to bat for his innocence in a PR push. The PR and financial risk (fan boycott) of signing him is huge. At the least there would be organizations picketing the stadium. The team signing him woukd be on the news everywhere in the nation for signing him.

Then, can he hold up emotionally? The verbal abuse will be intense in every minor league park he plays. Then it would intensify many times over if he’s called up. Jim Eisenreich was mocked by fans because he had Tourette’s. It was so bad quit he the game. Fans can be harsh. 

Child molestation is considered by the general public to be the most heinous crime. Even murders in prison look down on child molestors. They consider them worse than snitches.

The guy signed a confession. Until/if/when it’s overturned It’s a lot easier to draft and develop someone else. 

Evidently the NCAA finds him toxic as well.  I saw Heimlich wasn't even on the pre-season watch list for the Golden Spikes.  Objectively, looking at his numbers, he should be one of the two pitchers listed as finalists.

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIiiD-ffxcg

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

Sorry, but IMO they arent ignoring him or what he has done. I don't believe for one minute that some team isnt interested. The soul purpose is to win games and that means getting the best player you can for the least amount of money.

Funny thing about the business of MLB. Just because no one drafted him doesn't mean they aren't willing to pay him nice money as a free agent.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out after Omaha, and yes he can go play in Mexico or Japan and get lots of money just to let people forgive and forget.

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

My understanding is that his coaches and team mates really like him.

TPM posted:

Sorry, but IMO they arent ignoring him or what he has done. I don't believe for one minute that some team isnt interested. The soul purpose is to win games and that means getting the best player you can for the least amount of money.

Funny thing about the business of MLB. Just because no one drafted him doesn't mean they aren't willing to pay him nice money as a free agent.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out after Omaha, and yes he can go play in Mexico or Japan and get lots of money just to let people forgive and forget.

well the business of baseball doesn't just mean wins but also selling tickets, getting TV ratings and selling merchendizing articles beer and hot dogs. If he hurts those things or just an imaginary "brand value" of the franchise it might make sense to not sign him despite his production possibly being a bargain.

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

I haven’t spoken with a college baseball fan on the east coast who knows of Luke Heimlich. The only person who knew is a college baseball coach. I don’t believe I ever heard the story away from this site. 

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

I haven’t spoken with a college baseball fan on the east coast who knows of Luke Heimlich. The only person who knew is a college baseball coach. I don’t believe I ever heard the story away from this site. 

That is an incredibly naive point of view. This story is well known by everyone in the baseball circles and by many outside of it - from coast to coast. 

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

I haven’t spoken with a college baseball fan on the east coast who knows of Luke Heimlich. The only person who knew is a college baseball coach. I don’t believe I ever heard the story away from this site. 

That is an incredibly naive point of view. This story is well known by everyone in the baseball circles and by many outside of it - from coast to coast. 

I’ve noticed in this thread you’re quick on the draw with the direct insult of posters. In a previous post I stated the story is known in baseball circles. The average baseball fan doesn’t follow college baseball. It’s not like Luke Heimlich is coast to coast front page news. I follow college baseball (mostly Big Ten, ACC, SEC and a local ranked D3). I didn’t see Heimlich’s name anywhere from last year’s draft through this year’s draft (I don’t read everything) until an article just before the draft.

The two east coast papers I subscribe to have covered him fairly well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...undrafted-again.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...mlich-sex-crime.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/heimlich-goes-undrafted-again-as-teams-pass-on-troubled-past/2018/06/06/5d3c8144-69e3-11e8-a335-c4503d041eaf_story.html?utm_term=.10851a2bc537

One more I check fairly regularly:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sp...-20180606-story.html

JCG posted:

The two east coast papers I subscribe to have covered him fairly well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...undrafted-again.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...mlich-sex-crime.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/heimlich-goes-undrafted-again-as-teams-pass-on-troubled-past/2018/06/06/5d3c8144-69e3-11e8-a335-c4503d041eaf_story.html?utm_term=.10851a2bc537

One more I check fairly regularly:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sp...-20180606-story.html

 

It’s covered during the draft. But chances are a non college baseball fan doesn’t read it. When I said I saw nothing I meant from one draft to the next. Keep in mind a majority of people use Facebook as their main source of news. Talk about uninformed! But getting news from Facebook is another discussion. 

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

I haven’t spoken with a college baseball fan on the east coast who knows of Luke Heimlich. The only person who knew is a college baseball coach. I don’t believe I ever heard the story away from this site. 

That is an incredibly naive point of view. This story is well known by everyone in the baseball circles and by many outside of it - from coast to coast. 

I’ve noticed in this thread you’re quick on the draw with the direct insult of posters. In a previous post I stated the story is known in baseball circles. The average baseball fan doesn’t follow college baseball. It’s not like Luke Heimlich is coast to coast front page news. I follow college baseball (mostly Big Ten, ACC, SEC and a local ranked D3). I didn’t see Heimlich’s name anywhere from last year’s draft through this year’s draft (I don’t read everything) until an article just before the draft.

Stating that your point of view was naïve was not an insult.  It was an observation.  The casual baseball fans that I know are aware of the story AND they also follow college baseball. The story has been well covered - as other posters have pointed out.  I have noticed that you are quick to cry foul anytime one of your posts is not accepted as gospel. 

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

RJM posted:

adbono posted:

old_school posted:

Dominik85 posted:

I wonder why Oregon sticked with him. Simply greed by the AD putting winning over anything else? I could see Oregon state getting a lot of flak for this decision and losing some of the reputation.

of all the odd things that happen on our left coast this one isn't even on the radar screen for being important.

Isn’t that the truth ?!

I haven’t spoken with a college baseball fan on the east coast who knows of Luke Heimlich. The only person who knew is a college baseball coach. I don’t believe I ever heard the story away from this site. 

That is an incredibly naive point of view. This story is well known by everyone in the baseball circles and by many outside of it - from coast to coast. 

I’ve noticed in this thread you’re quick on the draw with the direct insult of posters. In a previous post I stated the story is known in baseball circles. The average baseball fan doesn’t follow college baseball. It’s not like Luke Heimlich is coast to coast front page news. I follow college baseball (mostly Big Ten, ACC, SEC and a local ranked D3). I didn’t see Heimlich’s name anywhere from last year’s draft through this year’s draft (I don’t read everything) until an article just before the draft.

Stating that your point of view was naïve was not an insult.  It was an observation.  The casual baseball fans that I know are aware of the story AND they also follow college baseball. The story has been well covered - as other posters have pointed out.  I have noticed that you are quick to cry foul anytime one of your posts is not accepted as gospel. 

I disagree and stating your experience is an observation. Calling someone naive is an insult. One other person (even a handful) stating  they've seen the article isn't evidence. I would expect everyone posting in this thread has seen the article. 

But since I’m not the first person you've insulted in this thread and you took a second shot at me I’ll just consider the source. I stated my experience and observatins. You can’t invalidate them no matter how much you want. 

Add: I’m sitting in DD. There are eight people sitting in here I know. They are all MLB baseball fans. They watch regularly. They attend games once or twice per month. None of them have heard of Luke Heimich. They also asked me what baseball game (have UT-TTU on iPad) is on in the afternoon. Then one asked why I would be watching it. There are a lot of baseball fans who are clueless about college baseball.

Dominik85 posted:

rynoattack posted:

I have been lurking, reading comments, and reading the linked articles.  Truthfully, the situation is a tragedy, and on one hand, he did admit to the crime; on the other hand, I believe he had some REALLY bad legal advice, and was nudged by his family to admit to something that he has stated numerous times he did not do.  Since his family thought this was the easiest way to go, record would be sealed, grand daughter wouldn't have to testify, least amount of punishment in light of the proposed punishments, potential to lose the case (because once your accused of that crime, you are guilty in this country.), etc., it appears they pushed their son into a bad deal.  Not to mention the kid was 13 - 15 years old!  

I for one cannot condemn a kid for life, especially since he has shown signs of functionality in our society after his punishment.  He will carry a stigma with him for the rest of his life, and that is quite a punishment in and of itself.  I wish they would let the boy play.  Sign him as a free agent with stipulations for constant counseling.

But why would you assume he is innocent?

What we know:

- he was charged with this

-he admitted he did it

- he was sentenced

- many years later after not being drafted once he suddenly says he didn't do it, just before the draft.

Now it is possible his family are terrible human beings who threw him under the bus but it seems more likely that his advisor went to him and said "look, you weren't drafted last year, let's try a different route" and then he invented a story to save his career (which didn't work of course and made many people hate him more because now he is a sex criminal who denies it.

I don't believe I said that he was innocent.  Saying that he got some REALLY BAD LEGAL advice is a far cry from saying that I believe he was innocent; although, I don't think it takes much thought to realize he could have been pushed by his tight nit family to spare the family, and the young child a trial.  (Dad's/families reputation, no jail time, record would be sealed, child's emotional state would be protected, etc.)

One group went out on the ledge for Heimlich ...

Oregon State ace Luke Heimlich selected College Baseball Foundation’s National Pitcher of the Year 

 https://www.oregonlive.com/bea...e_luke_heimlich.html

The College Baseball Foundation was formed in 2004 in Lubbuck, Texas as a non profit organization, with the dual aims of awarding the Brooks Wallace Award and creating the National College Baseball Hall of Fame. The organization also annually presents several other college baseball awards including: the John Olerud Award, National Collegiate Umpire Award, Pitcher of the Year Award, and Skip Bertman Award.

Well, I for one am very happy that probably the best pitcher in college baseball is shown some appreciation for his efforts.

From what I read is bad. Not sure I can forgive that type of crime against a 6 year old.   

On the local radio sports show this morning the topic of our prison / court system process was discussed for a segment.  Are we trying to rehabilitate, segregate, isolate, etc.......?  The conclusion that they came to was that it depends on the individual and the situation. 

I'm sure that there have been many innocent that have been convicted, and there are many that are guilty that were found innocent or "not guilty". 

I have no idea what he did or if he actually did it, but he supposedly has done exactly what the courts have demanded of him.  If I were him (as others have stated), I would have done A LOT of community work somehow to help the situation (although with the crime he was accused of, that maybe difficult) and public perception.

Could I see a vindictive "ex" doing something like this?  

Terrible situation for all.  

Florida State Fan posted:

From what I read is bad. Not sure I can forgive that type of crime against a 6 year old.   

I certainly do not want to sound preachy here. This website is full of awesome people that help each other on a daily basis, many of them, people of faith. As a community, I have witnessed wonderful people praying for one another when prayers are requested and I am thankful for this.  I think Luke Heimich and his family need our prayers and forgiveness right now.  I do not think anyone here is qualified to judge him or his situation. As all of us will, he too will one day go before God and be judged by God. I am not trying to be controversial or preachy. I hope no one here takes it that way. 

It should depend on the individual and the situation. But what happens when they are released from custody? When they are put back into society? Unless they are serving a life sentence that is what is going to happen. Are they able to get a job when they have to get a back ground check? Are they going to be able to get a job if no one ever gives them an opportunity because of their past history? If they are unable to get a job what do we expect they are going to do? If they are not allowed to move on how do we expect them to move along?

Our prison system does a very good job of making "criminals" better criminals. We put 20 year old kids in prison and punish them for doing wrong. How do we do that? We put them in prison with hardened criminals and they show them the ropes. We give them better criminal skills while offering no skills to succeed once they are released in a productive manner. Then we leaved them branded with "Convict", refuse to hire them because they have felony on their record, treat them like convicts and then can't understand why they won't turn it around. 

I retired from Law Enforcement. The criminal justice system in the country is pathetic. Instead of sending young people to a jail to become better at what got them there why don't we have a system designed to assist them with recovering at life? We send them right back to the same environment with the same "skills" but even better criminal skills and can't understand why they continue to be a criminal. 

Locking up hardened criminals? You better believe it. And throw the key away. Locking up youthful offenders and then not providing them life skills, mentor's, etc - well that's insane. The fact is most are in the system at an early age. And it begins a process that does not bode well in the end. Instead of using this as an opportunity to turn a life around we use it as an opportunity to complete the process already began. Of course this is a topic rarely discussed and never acted upon. I guess there is simply too much money to be made off of these people. 

Heimlich didn’t go to prison. He does have a record. He will find a job. He will have to sell himself more than the typical job applicant. There are plenty of jobs where a person isn’t in the public eye. Pro athlete isn’t one of them.

There world changes because someone doesn’t like how something works and decides they’re going to make a difference. Maybe Heimlich decides it’s not fair he can’t gain forgiveness and blazes the path for the next generation in his situation.

Patsy Mink didn’t think it was fair she couldn’t get accepted to med school in the late forties because she was a woman. She went to law school, got elected to Congress and changed the world.

RJM posted:

2020dad posted:

Cman posted:

For anyone who hasn't read it, I've linked to the Portland Tribune article below. It contains a bunch of information not covered in other articles, including a polygraph test.

https://portlandtribune.com/pt...for-beavers-baseball

Thanks for posting that.  I Ann late to the party here.  But sure seems to me there is plenty of reason to believe in his innocence and by any measure enough doubt to afford the kid an opportunity.  

I doubt any MLB team is going to go to bat for his innocence in a PR push. The PR and financial risk (fan boycott) of signing him is huge. At the least there would be organizations picketing the stadium. The team signing him woukd be on the news everywhere in the nation for signing him.

Then, can he hold up emotionally? The verbal abuse will be intense in every minor league park he plays. Then it would intensify many times over if he’s called up. Jim Eisenreich was mocked by fans because he had Tourette’s. It was so bad quit he the game. Fans can be harsh. 

Child molestation is considered by the general public to be the most heinous crime. Even murders in prison look down on child molestors. They consider them worse than snitches.

The guy signed a confession. Until/if/when it’s overturned It’s a lot easier to draft and develop someone else. 

 

Agree with your assessment to a point. There are professional athletes around the world who are ridiculed beyond belief pretty much every day. Racism, hatred, and ignorance is aplenty in our world. Seems to me this kid has handled what the world threw him well so far, and I'd guess he would welcome the opportunity if provided. Would he get booed - sure - but if the team wins? We'll see whether he stays in baseball....

"I'm not worried about the fans. I play baseball on the field," Heimlich said in the Oregon State clubhouse Friday. "People and the fans can cheer me on. They can boo. They can do what they want. I'm here to play baseball."

Like a good athlete he’s learned you control what you can and tune out the rest. If Heimlich isn’t boo’ed in Omaha does it change the mind of a MLB franchise? 

I disagree with the sexual violence advocate. Those who commit crimes as minors should be handled differently than adults. 

https://www.nytimes.com/aponli...ge-world-series.html

He’s a good kid. He’s innocent. His coaches and teammates know it, and they are willin to go to the mat for the guy.  The kid may have his life ruined, but I don’t think it is going to ruin his life. 

Teaching Elder posted:

He’s a good kid. He’s innocent. His coaches and teammates know it, and they are willin to go to the mat for the guy.  The kid may have his life ruined, but I don’t think it is going to ruin his life. 

He’s not innocent. There’s a signed confession of guilt.

There have been literally thousands of innocent people who have signed a confession of guilt. The legal system is often not just.  DAs want to close cases and save money. They pressure some guy to plead guilty to avoid a much harsher punishment.  People facing daunting circumstantial evidence plead guilty when innocent more often than you think. 

RJM posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

He’s a good kid. He’s innocent. His coaches and teammates know it, and they are willin to go to the mat for the guy.  The kid may have his life ruined, but I don’t think it is going to ruin his life. 

He’s not innocent. There’s a signed confession of guilt.

Hypothetical 

You're a young father of two on your way home after a hard day at work. You stop at a bar to drink a beer or two. As will happen you get into a heated argument with someone who's clearly drank two much. It's broken up, you finish your beer and leave. The man follows you out the door, the bartender sees him and calls the police. In the parking lot he confronts you, words are exchanged, he pulls a gun, you grab the gun, after a struggle the gun goes off and the guy falls dead at your feet. About that time the police pull in and find you holding a gun over a dead man. Fast forward to the prosecutor's office. He says plead to man 2, he'll ask for 5-7, you'll serve 2-3 and get on with your life. If you go to trial he'll seek murder charges and you'll serve at least 35 years behind bars. What are you going to do?

Just a very weird situation. He had 2 counts of child molestation on him, they dropped one and told him to plead guilty on the other. He did, he did exactly what he was told to do.  He paid the consequences. Like 7 years later he finds himself in a situation his family helped to create, now their life goes on as normal, he is deep in controversy.   Probably now they are kicking themselves because their son, brother, brother in law, nephew, cousin is out of millions of dollars.  If he never did it and they forced a 15 year old into confessing, shame on them!

We will never know the truth, will we? 

You folks need to get over this and move on.

So what team do you all think will sign him as a free agent after the CWS?

One from China or Mexico maybe. I don't see Japan but that would be great for him if they would  

Probably the Lexington "Cradle Robbers."

I keed, I keed.

Notice I threw Kentucky under the buss.  

Teaching Elder posted:

Probably the Lexington "Cradle Robbers."

 

I keed, I keed.

 

Notice I threw Kentucky under the buss.  

Sometimes I wonder what you are smoking in your pipe.