The problem with HS Drug Testing

I agree CPLZ. With regards to the student body, it has to be all or none. You cannot single out one group.
At that level of testing there are no safeguards against a false positive, except for threat of lawsuit. Only a small percentage of parents have the resources to go there. It just won't work unless all the cases are considered fairly, and who decides what's fair? Hmmmmm

Solution?

Superior knowledge is the solution. We're seeing the end of an era in which the PED users had the upper hand. As awareness continues to grow, the problem shrinks. The players themselves team with parents and coaches to police themselves, knowing full well that users must maintain secrecy in order to succeed. At the next level there is testing, and a lot more scrutiny. The users will eventually be weeded out. It's not perfect, but shame is a very effective mechanism for implementing social change. Perhaps in some cases more so than guilt.

Florida just started a program for random testing for steroids with six "target" sports: boys baseball, girls flag football, boys tackle football, girls softball, and girls & boys weightlifting. The testing is just for anabolic steroids. Here is the policy:

FHSAA Steroid Policy

If the test comes up positive, player is suspended from practice and games for 60 days and will be reinstated with a positive test after 60 days. The player may appeal and have his or her sample re-tested by a third party, and with a negative result will be immediately reistated. The policy says that the test results will not become public record, and that there will be no legal action taken as a result of a positive test.

But I agree with you guys - it gives me the heebie jeebies.

How indepth is testing at the collegiate level?

I believe we need to talk about this in two ways - PEDs and "Recreational Addictive Drugs" or RADs (not sure what else to call them.

If you just test for PEDs then you only have to test the athletes but if you test for RADs then you need to test everyone. Both are a problem in our society but each need to be treated differently.

There are a lot of terrible parents out there right now. They either allow drug use openly or just turn a blind eye to it or they are oblivious to what their kids are doing. These are the kids who will get hooked on RADs - this includes every group at the school; athletes, band, drama, cheerleaders etc...

PEDs only affect athletes so there isn't a real need to test a kid who works a part time job.

While I agree we need to make sure that we just don't turn our civil liberties over to the government we as a society do need protection from the people who don't follow the rules. It is against the law to take PEDs and RADs but people do. Now we have to find a way to stop them from breaking the law - how?

I don't like the idea of testing for any drug but if you think there isn't one kid on any team who hasn't at least tried to do drugs then you are living an illusion. Some of your more upstanding kids are the ones who will be most likely to do them. We need to do something to get all kids to stop taking any drug.

A drug test at school won't fix our problem but it can help to curb it some.

The best thing to do is turn a drug test into a teaching instrument and not a punishment. This is where we can keep the government out of it - let them say "yes we will test for drugs" but then let the community, school personnel and parents determine what happens to positive tests.

If a kid tests positive for any drug they need to get some sort of counseling first and right away (even if that means keeping them on the team and playing). Retest them about once a month for six months (parents have to pay for this - might motivate them to do something to help their kids). If anytime during the six months they test positive then they are out of sports / extracurricular activities but stay in counseling. Now at some point you might have to realize you are fighting a lost cause and get the kid out of the school completely.

There needs to be a checks and balance system in place for the supervisors and to ensure fairness in case of a false positive. This is something that can be done if everyone works at it.

The problem with HS drug testing is we dont have it. I believe that every hs athlete should be drug tested. I believe if you test positive you should immediately be given the opportunity to go to a location and have your own test done. And the school should immediately test you again. If both these tests show "positive" you should be immediately suspended from the team.

You should then be required to attend drug counseling for whatever you tested positive for. When you complete this counseling you should be allowed to come back to the team. If you test positive a second time you should be kicked off the team for good. You then must go back to counseling and if you refuse you should be kicked out of the school.

This goes for band , cheerleading , all sports. If they want to test every student in the school I am all for it. If they choose to only test athletes Im all for that. I dont care about this PC junk. I care about helping "one kid" if thats all it helps.

If we wait to find a perfect PC way of handling it that does not upset anyone it will never happen. Thats one reason we dont have it already. Im all for what Allen Keyes said "You do not have the right to do that which is wrong."

Heck if they said that my baseball team was the only sport that was going to be tested I would say "Thank you. Thanks for caring."

If some kids want to smoke pot there is not alot I can do about that. If some kids want to take steroids theres not alot I can do about that. But if they play on our team and are representing our school I darn sure dont want them to be out there. I would welcome drug testing in a heart beat. The last thing Im worried about is who else is being tested. Just test us. Thanks for caring enough to do it.

Somebody asked about the drug testing done at NCAA institutions. Anybody have that answer?

Maybe that's a route to go. Or maybe something else. I don't know.

I am in favor of it. Leagues, teams, etc have decided it is against the rules. Shouldn't they be able to look to see if somebody is cheating?

As for the issue of involving police, etc I think that too is difficult to answer. Do companies report the employees who fail a drug test? Do students caught drinking or smoking or whatever get turned over to the police normally? Is there anything the police can do about it after the fact?

Just some questions...

Coach May has hit is right on.

Athletes at our school sign a code of conduct, which among other things state that. 1. Participation is a privilege not a right. 2. Possession or use of illegal drugs, alcohol and tobacco are referred to disciplinary board for action. Let the board deal with the cases as they arise like all others.

I am curious about steroid tests, as my son has been prescribed steroid based inhalers for lung congestion in the past. Not sure if he would test positive, but even if he did we would go to the board meeting with statement from physician and prescription and move on. Don’t see any problem with it.

quote:

Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
How indepth is testing at the collegiate level?

I'll ask again!

I hear you Coach May, and I'm frustrated too. But I'll bet you can tell when one of your players is using, and you have the means to do something about it.
Call me cynical, but I'd be in favor of testing if I could be convinced it would be effective. Last year I watched a high profile HS athlete get busted for aggravated DUI, only to sue the school district to allow him to compete while the trial was put off by a savvy lawyer. Eventually he was shamed by negative publicity and left town, but not until he finished the season and cost the district thousands in legal fees. They'd have to hire a lot more lawyers if mandatory testing were imposed.
At my school there are about 2200 students. A little over half participate in sports, music, or cheerleading. The average drug test cost $44 per student. How many times are we going to test, and how are we going to pay for it? Just some thoughts.

Did someone say heebie jeebies?!?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI

The combination steroid and high school gives me the heebie jeebies.

I say test away. Every kid, not just the athletes, who walks into a high school leaves his civil liberties at the door. The Supreme Court agrees. Playing high school athletics is a privilege not a right.

I believe that the current testing policies are in place to protect high school athletes not to find reasons to punish them. This is war.

The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government. ~ Thomas Jefferson

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/ed_outreach/health-safe...g_testing/index.html

It's easier and eaiser these days to lump everything that isn't "old school", or "common sense", into the politically correct category and then have the concept demeaned on that basis. Everyone hates politically correct, so let's label it that.

Fairness and objectivity have nothing to do with political correctness.

I appreciate the passions expressed for the prospect of helping kids. That's fantasy though. These kids get no more help than a swift kick in the butt and then cast off and ignored. No provision for error, just the heavy handed law of schooldom that says we are always right and don't question us or our methods.

School is for learning, not a quasi police force. At our school, if you question anything with a reasonable query, the response is, "but it's for the kids". This has become the pat answer for anything the administrators wish to avoid talking about or be questioned about. When we hear,"but it's for the kids", we are supposed to fold our tents and retreat because now we are being labled as people who don't favor kid centric values. It's the biggest load of hogwash being foisted on the public since McCarthyism.

Being for the kids does not mean we should empower schools, school districts or administrators with powers that belong in the investigative branch of the judicial system. What has happened at schools today is the same political land grab that befalls all government entities. It gets some powers, then it wants more powers. Obstensibly, "for the good of the kids".


Maybe we should have the schools ask our kids to fill out surveys about their home life to determine if the parents are truly fit? That's for the good of the kids, right? Think the example preposterous? Ask yourself what you would have thought of the current drug testing agenda 10, even 20 years ago, and suddenly the prospect doesn't seem so out there. Do you think your school district or politician should have your parenting future in their hands? Why in the world would you give them that power over your kids now?

Schools are for learning. I agree.

Schools are not for marijuana , cocaine , heroin , speed , meth , alcohol , smoking , fighting , beatings , shootings , stabbings , steroids , extortion , Im sure I could come up with many more.

Lets do away with the school resource officers. We dont want to offend the students that dont need them there. No need to drug test thats offensive. We dont want to tred on anyones rights.

What about the right for my kid to go to school and not have to deal with all this stuff? Not have to deal with the kids doing this stuff? We dont want to create a police state in our schools do we?

Dont search their lockers they have rights. Dont search the cars in the parking lot they have rights. Dont put metal detectors at the door ways we dont want to upset anyone.

Maybe kids have the kids have a right to be as safe as possible when they go to school? Maybe they have the right to be protected from the ones that would harm to them. Maybe they have the right to go to the bathroom without dealing with the dealers?

I know some schools you would not want to walk down the halls in. I know some schools that are more dangerous that the street corner at 2am. Why? We dont want to tred an anyones rights now do we.

Lets all just "Say No". Lets all just hold hands and "Love each other" "We need to talk to them" "We need more education"

Yeah that has really worked. We are talking about kids that have made a decision to do wrong. They need someone to teach them it will not be tolerated. But again we do not want to tred on their "Right" to take away our "Rights".

Test them. If they dont like it - they dont play.

Coach May you have a PM.

Coach May,
As much as I respect you and your opinion, you have twice now taken what has been said, and completly twisted it to fit your argument.

Arlington Cemetary is full of people that if alive would disagree wholeheartedly with your quickness to throw peoples rights under the bus, just to justify your end result.


Let cops be cops, let teachers teach, and let our schools be a place of higher education.

Im not trying to offend you believe me. As far as Arlington my dad rests their.

I believe in rights. And I believe that drug testing does not violate civil rights. But hey thats just my opinion.

I believe drug testing for HS student involved in sports is a positive step and the beginning of educating the educators, coaches, parents, and athletes about the dangers of taking illegal performance enhancing drugs. I have seen first hand what these drugs can do, in my generation and in my son’s.

Coach May, I agree with you 100%. CPLZ, I have no idea where you are going with this but will have to agree to disagree.

Let cops be cops - Nope , not gonna happen. Cops are report takers now. After lawsuit after lawsuit and seeing their comrades go through what they have to go through thats what you end up being.

Let our schools be a place of higher learning. Sure wish we could "Let" that happen. But there are others that will not allow that. So we need others to make sure that they can be.

It would be a wonderfull world if everyone would just play nice. Talk about fantasy.

quote:

Maybe we should have the schools ask our kids to fill out surveys about their home life to determine if the parents are truly fit?

Be careful what you ask for. When my son was twelve he went through a PITA stage. One time he tried to walk away from me while I was chewing him out. I grabbed him by his tee shirt. He twisted to get out of it making about a one inch mark on his neck.

The next day at school a teacher ask my son about the mark. He told the teacher it was his fault. He said he disobeyed me and I grabbed him by his shirt. The teacher took him to the nurse. The nurse called social services. Every time my son was asked he said he disobeyed, I grabbed him and he tried to twist out of his shirt.

Social services wanted to place him in a foster home pending investigation. We had him removed to a friend's house overnight until we got a court injunction the next day saying he stays in the house until the investigation. I was interviewed in our house for almost two hours and the entire house was toured. The situation was ruled a non-event. I also have a letter from social services stating I'm my son lives in a suitable home with a suitable father. Let me tell you where they can file the letter. The non-event cost me $600 in legal fees when it happened. The non-event was also filed with the court. After two years I was allowed to pay almost $300 in additional legal fees to go to court to request the non-event stricken from the record.

quote:

Originally posted by LLorton:
This program, well intentioned as it is, has potentially serious legal ramifications for the individual.

If the individual you're referring to is using something that is ILLEGAL, then I don't feel sorry for him or her.

To me, this is not a matter of giving up rights. This is a matter of the athlete proving he or she is eligible to participate in an athletic even that is strictly VOLUNTARY.

Maybe we should lower the high stakes that is involved high school athletics?

I remember when I was in high school less than a decade ago BTW. One of my teammates asked our coach if he gets bonus pay if our team makes the playoffs. Coach told us that he gets paid a flat yearly fee per year to coach the team.

Is high school a stepping stone to pro sports? Why the need for all these drugs seriously? Some high school basketball players go straight to the nba, I dont hear of an epidemic of PED's being used by nba players.

What about all those parents that put unrealistic expectations on their kid athletes in the hope of a future money ticket? You dont think that might have an effect on some players?

To Coach May: I disagree about the testing. If a young impressionable mind is taught that its ok for authority figures to invade's one's rights at a young age and its made to look ok, what's going to happen when those young folks become adults? They will think its ok and vote for the same policies to continue. Its what has brought zero tolerance policies into our school systems.

Where are all the coaches condoning this behavior? Or just ignoring it because its just easier to do so than tell your players that popping needles is not good for one's health.

There are huge stakes involved in high school athletics. Take that away and the PED problem will mostly go away in that environment. I attended one of those inner city high schools where its probably safer to be out in the hood at 2am.

Bulldog since you graduated from hs just last year maybe you can give us some insight. Did your school have sworn resource officers present at it? Were they armed? How did this make you feel? How safe was your school? Do you feel that testing students that participate in sports is wrong? Would you feel that your rights were being violated if you were required to be tested?

When you go to the airport do you go through the screening process or do you yell "Dont violate my rights"? Are we glad they screen at airports? Or do we wish they would just trust us not to blow up the plane?

Dont drug test you are violating my rights!

Then do away with DWI checkpoints. We dont want to violate the rights of all the drivers that get stopped and are not drinking. How unfair is this. Just because we are trying to get that one drunk off the road that might kill someone.

Requireing someone to take a drug test as part of the criteria for a job. Truck Driver - Law Enforcement etc - Is that violating your rights?

I just disagree thats all. I will just sit back and read this thread I have said enough. But I do respect everyones right to believe in what they believe. Its never personal to me.

captlid - you got me. I have no response for that post. I am at a total loss for words. Case closed I will move on now.

quote:

Originally posted by captlid:
Maybe we should lower the high stakes that is involved high school athletics?

I remember when I was in high school less than a decade ago BTW. One of my teammates asked our coach if he gets bonus pay if our team makes the playoffs. Coach told us that he gets paid a flat yearly fee per year to coach the team.

Is high school a stepping stone to pro sports? Why the need for all these drugs seriously? Some high school basketball players go straight to the nba, I dont hear of an epidemic of PED's being used by nba players.

What about all those parents that put unrealistic expectations on their kid athletes in the hope of a future money ticket? You dont think that might have an effect on some players?

To Coach May: I disagree about the testing. If a young impressionable mind is taught that its ok for authority figures to invade's one's rights at a young age and its made to look ok, what's going to happen when those young folks become adults? They will think its ok and vote for the same policies to continue. Its what has brought zero tolerance policies into our school systems.

Where are all the coaches condoning this behavior? Or just ignoring it because its just easier to do so than tell your players that popping needles is not good for one's health.

There are huge stakes involved in high school athletics. Take that away and the PED problem will mostly go away in that environment. I attended one of those inner city high schools where its probably safer to be out in the hood at 2am.

High school sports= high stakes???? Try again. This very site has people all over the place saying that high school baseball means NOTHING. It's all about the showcase, all about the big-money teams. High school baseball means NOTHING.

Your statement about the NBA-- they can no longer go straight from high school to the NBA. They changed that rule within the last two or three years. Shortly after LeBron I believe.

I hope I dont sound stupid, but then why are some high schools instating drug testing policies for athletes?

If high school athletics are not important to advance up the various levels of various sports.

Just a few notes on drug testing. Where I work, we live, eat, breathe drug screens. I work at a medical office that specializes in workman's compensation/occupational medicine. We do drug screens for a variety of reasons: pre-employment, random, post accident, reasonable suspicion, etc.

Drug screens are performed by several different laboratory companies across the US. We collect specimens for multiple labs in our clinic. There are a multitude of different things one can test for, a common panel is PCP, amphetamines, opiates, THC (marijuana), and cocaine.

At our clinic, we have a special area for drug screens. The toilet is locked so the donor can't dip into the reservoir to dilute their urine, the water in the bowl is dyed blue, and there is no sink in the toilet room. The water is shut off and the donor is instructed not to flush. This set-up is regulated by DOT (Dept of Transportation) for commercial drivers but we use the same set-up for all of our drug screens.

All drug screens are temperature tested and must be within range. If a person submits a cold or hot specimen, generally that person is allowed to re-submit a specimen but it must be an observed urination (yes, a male observes a male, female observes female). Whether or not a person is allowed to re-submit is dependent upon the employer for the most part. For commercial drivers (DOT), there is a whole set of standards which are the same coast to coast.

Some drug screen panels involve a tabletop test. If the tabletop test is "negative", the drug screen is negative. If the table top test is "non-negative", then the urine is sent to the lab for official testing. The tabletop testing is similar to a home pregnancy test.

Each drug screen has a "chain of custody" form which is numbered. The urine container is sealed with a security tape which has the same # also. The donor initials each container of urine and signs the form. The donor is given a copy of the form with the # on it for future reference if needed. The collection process and labeling is considered evidence collection and there are specific requirements to ensure a smooth chain of custody from the donor to the lab.

If a drug screen is "positive" for any of the screened substances, the donor will be contacted by the "MRO". The MRO is a medical doctor who has specific training and certification in interpretation of drug screen results and is the one who clarifies with the donor any valid medical reason for whatever substance to be found in his/her urine. For example, a person on ADD medication who tests positive for amphetamines must provide proof of a valid current prescription, which would validate the reason for the amphetamine and thus the drug screen would be considered overall "negative"

There are also thresholds for levels of drug in the urine. For example, if a cutoff value for THC (marijuana) is say 25, and the urine sample has THC but the level is 15, it is a negative drug screen.

If a person tests "positive" and is unable to give a valid medical reason for the substance, that person is given the right to have the urine re-tested at a different lab (at his/her own expense). If the second lab indeed tests the urine to be "negative". The first lab loses their drug testing ability for some period of time, I think like a year. So, the point for this paragraph is, drug testing labs are extremely quality conscious.

I just thought I would give an overview of the process for you. It may be much more information that anyone wanted.

At my son's high school, there is no drug screening, but there are specific policies for any student involved in extra-curricular activities for alcohol, drug, tobacco , etc related issues. The school's standpoint on this is that as athletes, band people, etc, they represent our school district and that extracurricular activities are a privilege, therefore, a higher standard of behavior/conduct is appropriate. I agree with the school and I would support drug testing if the issue arises here. I am comfortable with the quality and control of drug screenings.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Bulldog since you graduated from hs just last year maybe you can give us some insight. Did your school have sworn resource officers present at it? Were they armed? How did this make you feel? How safe was your school? Do you feel that testing students that participate in sports is wrong? Would you feel that your rights were being violated if you were required to be tested?

When you go to the airport do you go through the screening process or do you yell "Dont violate my rights"? Are we glad they screen at airports? Or do we wish they would just trust us not to blow up the plane?

Dont drug test you are violating my rights!

Then do away with DWI checkpoints. We dont want to violate the rights of all the drivers that get stopped and are not drinking. How unfair is this. Just because we are trying to get that one drunk off the road that might kill someone.

Requireing someone to take a drug test as part of the criteria for a job. Truck Driver - Law Enforcement etc - Is that violating your rights?

I just disagree thats all. I will just sit back and read this thread I have said enough. But I do respect everyones right to believe in what they believe. Its never personal to me.

Coach May, yes I graduated just this last spring. Little bit about my high school...

I went to Waterloo High School in Waterloo, IL. Our high school has roughly 950 students that come from the "city" in Waterloo, the surrounding countryside, and at times it can be very diverse mixing the two. Waterloo is a community of roughly 10,000 while Monroe County has something like 22,000 or thereabouts. The majority of K-12 students in the county go to the Waterloo School District. We have some issues but for the most part the high school is pretty safe.

You asked about the presences or absence of law enforcement officers. Yes, we have on school resource officer at Waterloo High School. He is a sworn officer with the Waterloo Police Department. He also teaches DARE at the elementary school. The officer is armed with what I would guess is a standard sidearm and a taser. He's a great guy; very student-oriented.

Last year we even had the Chief of Police in the school! Him and about 4 other officers on that morning. Our school had a student claim that her ex-boyfriend was going to bring a gun so they had two officers at each end of the building for the short day we day scheduled.

Our former Chief of Police used to do self-defense with the female PE students along with our football coach who is active in martial arts. He was also known to substitute as a teacher on occasion.

We often have law enforcement at our school for events. Football, s****r, basketball, etc they'll wonder in while on duty for awhile sometimes. At football our SRO is almost always there and there's typically one more there for at least a little while. I guess last year or maybe the year before we had an officer at one of our baseball games. He had brought the K9 out I think just to give the dog an opportunity to get out of the car while they were on duty.

Also, they bring the K9 through the school to check lockers. Before the city police department got a K9, the county would bring one and the Illinois State Police would bring one.

Ok so I've gone on a bit of a tangent, but to answer your questions Coach May--Yes we have an SRO and yes I felt safe in the school generally.

Edit...
I forgot a couple of your questions Coach. You asked about drug screening and if I would have been opposed to it.. I actually did HAVE TO submit to a drug test not for athletics but as a part of my application process for the United States Military Academy. I wouldn't have opposed it really. I would have been upset that it was needed, but I wouldn't complain to the administrators for them doing it. More so I would complain about why students felt the need to use steroids, alcohol, etc

Bulldog19 said:If the individual you're referring to is using something that is ILLEGAL, then I don't feel sorry for him or her.

To me, this is not a matter of giving up rights. This is a matter of the athlete proving he or she is eligible to participate in an athletic even that is strictly VOLUNTARY.
______________________________________________________

IMO for me it is a medical matter, not a legal one. Overdosing, use of PED, and RAD's are pharmaceuticals that are controlled substances developed and injested by the individual to alter the "physical" senses in some form or fashon.

Why law enforcement is envolved with "drugs" escapes my cognitive reasoning ability since there isn't a "cop" on the beat that knows what to do about an overdose even if you handed him the instruction manual?

This is all misplaced authoritarianism that goes to societal "big brotherism"

It's time to put some sanity back into our society, "PROHIBITION" didn't work in the 20's and 30's and it won't work now. This is nothing more than the "lawyer, full employment act".

The stupidity is in the fact that we continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect to get different results; Albert Einstein called that the definition of "INSANITY"

IMHO it is better to develope programs that are controlled and administored by the medical profession in conjunction with reasonable goals that are wrapped around the "true" understanding of human nature based upon human behavior.
JMO

I have been reading this post.interesting points. As far as drug testing it is going to be the wave of the future. I am a RN we drug test every new mother and have for the last 15 or so years. if mom fails test social worker gets involved checks out house etc. etc.I dont know why people are saying it takes away rights, many law enforcers,pgand e, at@t, many many companies drug test their workers. Unfortunately the more things that happen that involve drugs has a direct effect on the safety of people around them the more people will be tested.if drug testing athletes keeps one athlete from doing harm to himself or another then thats the way it needs to be. If my son were to test positive and have a consequence then maybe it will save him from worse later.Our rigths get taken away because our society thinks they can do whatever they want and have no body to answer to. soldiers get drug tested,police officers, do you want a police officer who is protecting you on drugs?and the poster that said the no tolerance policy invades our rights??? NO TOLERANCE for drugs in school, how does that effect our rights, when kids go to school they need to be safe from others who are violating the rules.Look at our pro athletes for goodness sakes none of them did it, they feel attacked etc etc. if you do the crime you do the time. The only reason athletes are going to be tested is because of the trend of illegal substances being used by them, by college athetes and pro. clean it up at the HS level. Make the kids understand NO DRUGS. simple dont like it dont try out.many of Our kids feel too entitled and many think they are never going to get caught (sound familiar) I would love to not have to test our young people for drugs but its become an epidemic. our athletes need to stand for something, something pure and untouched, get back to the love of the game, the small ball and get away from the mammoth men that hit homeruns all day there is more to baseball then this.what has happened at the pro level has trickeled down and now all have to answer , this is the only way to trully clean it up from the top on down. test all of them ,we owe it to the game of baseball so that it can continue to be the great game that we all love.

BOF: Your doctor prescribes "catabolic steroids".
It is "anabolic steroids" that are the culprit in these discussions.

They don't test at my school.... If it came up I sort of think our school board would balk at the idea; mainly because I think they would worry their child (or nephew or best friend's kid) would come up positive. Just a thought I had...

Great points Coach May and CPLZ I do understand where you are coming from but this whole discussion has developed into completely seperate arguments. There is a middle ground we need to come to in order to benefit everyone.

Someone said let cops be cops and teachers teach - well that's nice but teachers have had their hands tied in several areas. Because of No Child Left Behind we cannot teach anything about morals and values. The sad thing is in quite a few households that is the only time some kids got lessons in morals and values. Now that we have taken that out of the classroom - so we wouldn't offend certain individuals because that is something that should be taught in the home - we are seeing the results of it. Drug use, alcohol use, teenage pregnancy, cheating and all kinds of other horrors are commonplace.

You can't deny it - it's there. Spend a week in a classroom and you will see the problems.

I live pretty close to Louisville in Kentucky and we play a VERY low income high school in football and a few times in baseball. This is a school that has close to 1000 students in it. They have one phone for the school in the office locked up because the kids (and people off the street) will steal phones. They have 3 computers for the entire school because once again people steal them.

This school doesn't have a resource officer like Coach May was talking about but they have a on duty Louisville Metro Police officer every day. They cannot leave doors leading outside unlocked because the drug dealers will come in and sell their stuff. The police have to visit this school on an almost weekly basis to arrest students or people coming in off the street.

CPLZ and others what if you had no choice and your son or daughter had to go to this school? Would you want changes made? The first step to cleaning this junk up is getting rid of drugs. How do you know if someone is on drugs - wait to catch them or test them?

If you test 10 kids at $50 each that ends up being $500. If only one kid tests positive and he gets the necessary treatment to get over his addiction and he goes on to become a respectable citizen with a family - that $500 investment was worth it.

Having rights and understanding those rights are two totally different concepts. I teach social studies and my students know they have rights because they hear it all the time. Do they understand exactly what those rights are? Not really but I hope when they leave my class they do. I teach my students to not just listen to others but to form their own opinions. They need to find all the information and then make an opinion.

If you just talk about how rigths are being taken away by the government then you create an "us vs them" attitude and if you just talk about doing whatever the government says then you create a sheep mentality. It's not that way. Teach them to make informed decisions. Government is there to work FOR us and not against us. If you don't like what the government is doing then do something about it.

Anyway, it's a complicated situation and it will take a complicated answer. Choosing sides won't get it done. We all have to work together to find the best possible solution.

quote:

I have been reading this post.interesting points. As far as drug testing it is going to be the wave of the future. I am a RN we drug test every new mother and have for the last 15 or so years. if mom fails test social worker gets involved checks out house etc. etc.I dont know why people are saying it takes away rights, many law enforcers,pgand e, at@t, many many companies drug test their workers. Unfortunately the more things that happen that involve drugs has a direct effect on the safety of people around them the more people will be tested.if drug testing athletes keeps one athlete from doing harm to himself or another then thats the way it needs to be. If my son were to test positive and have a consequence then maybe it will save him from worse later.Our rigths get taken away because our society thinks they can do whatever they want and have no body to answer to. soldiers get drug tested,police officers, do you want a police officer who is protecting you on drugs?and the poster that said the no tolerance policy invades our rights??? NO TOLERANCE for drugs in school, how does that effect our rights, when kids go to school they need to be safe from others who are violating the rules.Look at our pro athletes for goodness sakes none of them did it, they feel attacked etc etc. if you do the crime you do the time. The only reason athletes are going to be tested is because of the trend of illegal substances being used by them, by college athetes and pro. clean it up at the HS level. Make the kids understand NO DRUGS. simple dont like it dont try out.many of Our kids feel too entitled and many think they are never going to get caught (sound familiar) I would love to not have to test our young people for drugs but its become an epidemic. our athletes need to stand for something, something pure and untouched, get back to the love of the game, the small ball and get away from the mammoth men that hit homeruns all day there is more to baseball then this.what has happened at the pro level has trickeled down and now all have to answer , this is the only way to trully clean it up from the top on down. test all of them ,we owe it to the game of baseball so that it can continue to be the great game that we all love.

Great, now that everyone is tested and you've kept "one athlete from doing harm to himself" how do you justify the cost? Also, the more we turn the raising of our children over to the state the more control the state will take. My children are my responsibility and I will do what ever is necessary to teach them the harmfulness of PED's . I do not like the idea or practice of handing over my children's moral and health issues to a bureaucratic schmuck.

coach 2709

good points. our young people do need to be taught at home and be taught values and morals, and for some this is not happening. and like I said in my earlier post the few sometimes spoil it for the many. I unfortunately dont think people will agree on this issue. It is a very highly sensitive issue. But I like you if it saves one kid then its worth it.but as I also said it will hapen soon it is just inevitable that drug testing will begin in schools for athlees and maybe the whole student population.

quote:

From CPLZ: Being for the kids does not mean we should empower schools, school districts or administrators with powers that belong in the investigative branch of the judicial system. What has happened at schools today is the same political land grab that befalls all government entities. It gets some powers, then it wants more powers. Obstensibly, "for the good of the kids".

This is so true! CPLZ is a voice of reason and wisdom in this thread.

I dont believe in turning our rights over to the government.But if one drunk driver or drug induced human being plows into a bus full of student athletes and kills them because they were intoxicated or on drugs how do you tell me the cost of that?if they kill innocent people ? but thats off the subject the original posts is that some high schools are going to start drug testing and i believe more will follow. whether it violates rights or not i will almost bet you will see it in the next few years.the question in the beginningof thread is should just athletes be tested or the whole student population? also to the last poster I firmly believe in my right to raise my child and teach him rigth from wrong but for many this doesnt happen. we will not all agree on this and there is no point geting into arguments. this is the hs baseball web and we all have our own opinions and feelings about things. just like any group of people we will not always agree.

one more thing

i dont think the testing is just talking about PEDs. I think the original poster is talking about drugs of any kind. correct me if i am wrong.

Please read the whole link. It shows what is wrong with drugs and alcohol. In this story this guy was an adult but how many kids drive the roads every day and night while intoxicated.

This is also an example of what PEOPLE can MAKE our government do. The changes that came out of this is because MADD made it happen.

This is a great example of people using their right to make changes through our government. It's a slow process but it's the right process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrollton_bus_disaster

I have the right to swing my fist where ever I want and nobody can take that away from me but I lose my right to swing my fist at the tip of another person's nose.