They said it!!!

That a boy Lynn. Now I see that you and I are on the same page.

quote:

Recognition is never a good reason to leave your team. There is no "I" in team but there are 2 of them in recognition.

I agree with that statement 100%!

I have a question for everyone on this board.

What is the idea behind all the baseball that a kid participates in during the summer?

My answer is two-fold. First, without a doubt, playing alot of games against great competition will undoubly make kids better or force them to work on things that will make them better.

Second, I think that summer is also the best time for kids to get exposure (to especially) college coaches. Pro scouts see them year round, but the college guys are out and about a whole lot more during the summer. I believe kids and parents of kids have to do everything they can to get the maximum amount of exposure. Is this selfish...maybe? But with limited amount of baseball scholarships out there and the extremely large and talented pool of players out there, unfortunately, conflicts arise and tough choices have to be made.

My advice to all parties is to communicate with each other and try to understand both sides of the agenda...the select coaches are trying to run a TEAM (organization) and the parents are trying to take care of their son.

Good luck to all.

quote:

My advice to all parties is to communicate with each other and try to understand both sides of the agenda...the select coaches are trying to run a TEAM (organization) and the parents are trying to take care of their son.

It is the bottom of the seventh,no outs,runner on second the score is tied.The stands are full of scouts/coaches and this is the only time they will see your son.Do you want him to sac bunt or hit away?

quote:

Originally posted by ragarm:
It is the bottom of the seventh,no outs,runner on second the score is tied.The stands are full of scouts/coaches and this is the only time they will see your son.Do you want him to sac bunt or hit away?

Neither, I hope he is at a self promoting try-out trying to make an all star team instead.

That decision should ALWAYS be made based upon who is at the plate and NOT who is in the stands! Period! THE END!

Just returned from having lunch with a fellow webster/friend/baseball mom and wouldn't you know it we were talking about this very subject and all the posts ..........

What we realized is that yes teams like DBat and others (won't/can't list any others because I am sure I will leave someone off this list and they will get upset, I will use only Dbat as an example because they are part of this ongoing discussion-is that enough of a disclaimer/CYA)....

Back to topic, teams like Dbat do a great job getting their players seen by scouts/colleges no one deny's that. But,,,,,,,,,,here is my question- Let's say there are 15 players on the Dbat team and ok there are (for example) give or take 3 other teams out there that give their players the same type of exposure Dbat gives its players then you take 15 players x 3 teams is roughly 45 players in the metroplex that benefit by this type of team/exposure..... What do the other say 50 talented players (I don't know the exact number but it could be only 25 more or 50 more) that are recruited each year by colleges/Juco/or drafted how do they get noticed?????????????????

Maybe they write those letters, visit those showcases, tryout for Area Code Games, do college camps.....do you see where I am going......

So...........if there was a right way/only way to get noticed then that would negate (is that how you spell it?) all the other ways people will/have/and continue to get notice.....Let the players/families do what they need to do when they need to do it and if it doesn't fit your team's requirments/committments then I guess that is up to the coach/player.

I sure hope that a team's manager is upfront in the beginning about what is expected and what will not be tolerated (in terms of doing other showcases during their season) so that players can choose and commit knowing what they are committed to. If the player has done their homework and the team has a proven history then,,,,,,,I am sure the player knows the answers before he even trys out or is recruited by a select team.

To gather info. that is relevent to this topic I created a poll on the General Discussion forum about how a college/school found a player.

Oldbat, very good post. Let us not forget that many posting here have agendas. Not every travel team has the connections of a Tigers, DBat, or Mustangs.

Often in these threads it takes on a black or white tone. Well, it is not black or white. Every parent has to do what they think is right. Coaches have to do what is best for the team. So, who is right and who is wrong? It is not black and white.

I am a big fan of Sam Carpenter, but one of his coaches did not like my son and bad mouthed him to college coaches (and still does). They told me so. My son never went to a showcase by PG while he was with the Mustangs and was a team guy. He went to one with Brian Rupe after Farmington. He never got the promotion from the Mustangs. It hurt him. After the move to Florida, he got the calls from the LSU's and Miami's. He had already commited to the a school and said no even though he had not signed the nli yet. We made a commitment. Funny, with this guy badmouthing him, he got no offers from the better Texas schools. After going to Florida and playing with a team that promoted him (The Central Florida Renegades) he started getting the calls.The Mustangs hurt his chances. He would have been better off showcasing, but we made a commitment. Being a team guy was not in his best interest. We did it anyway. Keep that in mind.

So, let's not all condemn everyone who leaves a team or showcases just because it makes it harder for you to recruit players who want to maximize their chances. Times are changing. The way it is. Bashing parents of kids because you don't like their decisions? I don't get it.

As far as stats go. Who cares? People in America chase dreams. Do all do it correctly? No. I would never kill a kids dream just to have him play on my team. Make your rules and don't take kids who don't follow them.

The Florida Bombers, arguably one of the best teams in the country every year, let their players go. Why are they wrong? All of their kids go to major colleges and get drafted. It works for them. More than one way to skin a cat!

I remember a thread where a coach did not like Perfect Game tournaments as well. Has the tuned changed after going to one. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

It's all about EGO. Some of the summer coaches work real hard, they do loads of scouting, they spend long hours finding the best of the best to play for them. Most of the teams state on their web site or tell you in person come play for us, we will get you seen. 100% of OUR players get college schlorships, some even get drafted. Then you look at their Alumni page and they tout who the team has sent to D1, Juco, drafted. One of the problems is when these players hit 17 & 18 they start getting noticed by these scouts and get a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to individual workouts with major league scouts. The down side is that these kids have to miss some of the activities of their summer team, and since they are the best players on that summer team it hurts the team. The COACH of that team loses a big tournament that they would have won. It is the COACH and only the COACH that has a problem with the kid going and competing in these once in a lifetime events. That being said, the COACH does not hesitate posting on the team website that this player was drafted and played for them. What the COACH doesn't say is that though playing for us got him noticed, the player and their family also did their homework and went to extra events that improved his stock that made it possible for him to get drafted. After all it is the players that make the summer coach look good isn't it?

Not only our egos, but we also do this for the HIGH PAY.

Is it possible we do this to give something back to the game that gave us so much?(out of respect for the game)

Is it possible we do this to give kids the opportunity to have a great experience?(travel to great places, form everlasting friendships)

Is it possible we do this to help kids learn lessons for life?(loyalty, teamwork, how to compete, overcoming adversity)

Just Questions.

Vanlandingham,

All of what you just stated IS possible and your points are valid. My points are also valid.

Since I don't know you, this was not directed at you.

If your motives are as you state then I wish there were more of YOU out there. I do think however; You have coaches around you that don't share your vision 100% KG is an example of this.

Vanlandingham, those are not just questions!!!! They are well made points. Thanks!

there are people in all arenas that have their own agenda. Not all Politicians are crooked either but the few who are spoil it for all the rest.

Coaches, the players on your 16,17,18 teams have probably played for numerous coaches, one of the reasons they came to you was they were hoping that you would be different than their last coach. I am just saying that there are bad coaches out there with HUGE EGO'S and are in it for the wrong reasons. There are TRUE COACHES that are in it for all the right reasons and those coaches should by held in the highest reguard.

"Absolute power corrupts, Absolutely"

How does the money stack up, out of curiosity?

Income:
$1200 x 16 players = $19,200

$19,200 less:
$ 3,500 fees for seven tournaments (assuming $500 ea.)
$ 1,170 cap and two jerseys (assuming $65 ea., plus coaches)
$ 300 baseballs (a gross at $25/doz.)
$ 4,830 hotel and meals for two coaches
$ 500 gas expense
$ 100 insurance

Leaves
$8800 gross profit, from which to pay coaches and overhead

Practice field or cage rentals are not included in the above. And this does not include a JO or WWB type tournament. And I'm sure some other expenses have been overlooked.

So two coaches get, maybe, $4000 each. They spend about 21-25 days at tournaments. Plus some practices.

I don't think anyone is getting rich off this, but I could be wrong.

Texan,

The coaches arent getting rich but take those same numbers and calculate them over 15 teams. The organizations with 4 teams in every age bracket might be making a nice little chunk.

Arlington A's

18U-3 teams
17U-2 teams
16U-3 teams

average 20 players per team at 1500 per player = 240,000 to the organization. Then add the two batting cages 3 kids at a time per cage for 1/2 hr. session= $360.00 per hour while in use, money goes to organization. I know this because I was there, they called the house three times a week to see if my son was going to be there for hitting lessons (batting practice for the team HE WAS PLAYING ON $30.00 for 1/2 hr) with 3 kids rotating in the same cage it was more like $30.00 for 10 minutes. So lets compute 160 players, let's say they have to attend twice a week. $9600.00 a week for all the players to have BP at their cages $76,800 for 2 months.

You get the point! YES there are some teams out there trying to make the quick BUCK. Which is exactly my point, if and when you find a good organization with GOOD COACHES then stick with them because THEY are there for the right reasons.


NOT ALL ORGANIZATIONS ARE THERE TO MAKE A DOLLAR! SOME ARE THERE FOR THE KIDS AND PUT THEM IN THE BEST POSSIBLE POSITION TO GET THEM NOTICED AND DO ALOT TO HELP THE PLAYERS GET SCHLORSHIPS.

THERE ARE ROGUE ORGANIZATION OUT THERE. BE CAREFUL!

Speaking of multiple teams, something still bugs me. My son is very happy in his organization - great coaches, good families, good baseball, etc., but it has more than one team in some age groups. Our kid somehow ended up on the team that has clearly emerged as the "A" team for his age group, and again, we are happy. But what do you say to those kids on the weaker team? Did they know that going in? How common is this? In those multi-team programs, do folks admit there are A & B teams, deny it, or is that just not the case? And do those weaker teams "cheapen the brand" for those "next level" kids wanting to be affiliated with a successful program? Or is that even a legit issue?

quote:

Originally posted by w'forddad:
Vanlandingham,

All of what you just stated IS possible and your points are valid. My points are also valid.

Since I don't know you, this was not directed at you.

If your motives are as you state then I wish there were more of YOU out there. I do think however; You have coaches around you that don't share your vision 100% KG is an example of this.

I am gonna pretend I did not see the last sentence of your post. Unless, that is, you are calling me out as one who has alterior motives in coaching amatuers.

If so, please state just exactly what you know about me and what you think I coach for.

sorry Ken, I was not refering to you. OOPS! forgot your initials were KG. But while I got you here, why are you getting so p!ssed off. You always seem to be on edge.

BTW Walden and Cahoon looked good at Area Code on Monday. The DBAT pitching staff is one of the best I have ever seen.

Bottom line:

Parents do your research first. Determine your son's needs, your son's goals, what your family can commit to because without family support a good situation can turn bad...........and ask current players about the team.

Look deeper than bells and whistles, look at turnover rate in the younger levels (11-14), if it is an organization that has teams in most ages. Don't focus on turnover at 17 and 18 you can't gauge turnover at that point due to graduation and just plain old burnout....

And if you are happy, your son is happy and you are getting what you want from a team then that is all that matters,,,,,,,,,

quote:

Originally posted by w'forddad:
sorry Ken, I was not refering to you. OOPS! forgot your initials were KG. But while I got you here, why are you getting so p!ssed off. You always seem to be on edge.

BTW Walden and Cahoon looked good at Area Code on Monday. The DBAT pitching staff is one of the best I have ever seen.

I get on the edge because I just can't seem to break through to people on these various topics.

I guess I need to give up. Thats just my nature W'daddy. If you knew me then you would understand.

On edge? You should try sitting next to him in the dugout.....