To Cut, Or Not To Cut.....?

Wow this is a tough one and bad move on the parents part to announce it so early. They obviously should have waited until next year.

Honestly I belive I would call the mom / dad / kid (or get them to come to the school) and explain what you just put here and ask if they the kid is changing school. If he is changing schools then I say don't keep him but make the offer he can work out with the team but not get a uniform / play.

Reason I say this you have an obligation to your team this year and 2 or 3 years down the road. Doens't make sense to keep a kid for one year who is leaving over a kid who won't get the work because he got cut but might have improved if they did play. You got to take care of your team.

But I'm all about helping all kids getting better at the game of baseball. If I can help a kid get better or get a chance at the next level I'm going to do it because to me its the right thing to do. In the past i've worked the camp of our rival because they asked me to do it. I've called colleges to help players from other teams get in. The way I look at it one or two kids better not beat my team if I worked with them from the other team. I'm working with 15ish kids everyday in practice but I'm working with a small handful of kids in a limited capacity so I still feel I have the edge overall. But if I can help that kid get to the next level then I'm all for it.

So to answer your question - explain what the options / choices are to the parents / kids but always move forward with your team.

Catholic school?

Kid is in good standing? Tuition paid? Does your mission statement apply to all students? You did say his anticipated departure has nothing to do with the baseball program, right?

He is entitled to all the school has to offer as long as he is there.

Will the algebra teacher stop helping him out because he won't be there to take calculus? Is he being ignored in Composition class because he will be writing his senior paper for someone else?

It is about the student, isn't it? This is high school, not college.

His mother should have waited and the AD should never had told you what he heard. The mother is guilty of bad teaming. The AD was unprofessional. Regardless, until he's gone, he's a student at the school and deserves no less than all the opportunities every other student has

Sorry, Jimmy, I couldn't disagree with you more....

At ANY school, education is a RIGHT and an obligation of the school to provide that for EVERY child. An extracurricular is just that; it is a privilege and just like playing time in that sport, it is earned or achieved. He certainly is "entitled" to try out as any other Freshman. But I don't think he is "entitled" to automatically MAKE the team.

Does the bigger, taller, stronger, faster, kid who shows up every day and works hard have the same RIGHT to make the team as the player who is not nearly as skilled or who doesn't put forth as much effort? I mean, you do take into consideration ALL factors when selecting a team don't you? Skill. Ability. Strength. Hustle. Attitude. Grades. Why shouldn't I consider that player A may help my Freshmen do well THIS year, but then I have to cut player B. And player B may help my team for a total of 4 years, but maybe not if he is cut THIS year and decides to go run track and never come back.

As I mentioned (I think) in my first post, if we didn't have to cut anyone else, it wouldn't even be a question. We keep this young man, give him the best baseball education and experience we could, and then we'd compete against him for 3 years at his new school with nothing but good feelings. I just have a hard time swallowing that I may have to force a more marginal kid off the team this year for a kid I know will only be there for 1 year.

As for my AD....I can't see where you are coming from at all. I think my AD let me know about this mom inquiring about the kid because he thought that maybe as one of my baseball players, I could talk to him or the family and try to convince them to keep their son in our school. But even if he was doing it to let me know that the kid was going to transfer and I'd only have him for one year, what is wrong with that? Isn't my AD's job to inform me of things that may affect my team? If he knew a fact about a kid (good or bad), wouldn't he want to let his coaches know that fact if they are going to have that kid on their team?

I have already started to think things through as to what I'm going to do, I just like to see other's perspective on a situation. I can't say I see eye-to-eye with you on this Jimmmy, but appreciate the input; certainly an angle I had not considered.

TCB1 -
This is a Catholic School? You want to cut a kid because he might not be there next year? Sounds like you are struggling with your own ethics. You know the right thing to do by this kid. If he is a top player, then you keep him. If he isn't going to contribute to the team this year, then the decision is easy. There are never guarantees with players - kids move, get injured etc. if they work hard and play hard then they deserve to get an equal shot. The "marginal" kid may quit next year, you have no control over it.

I agree with Jimmy - this kid deserves no less than all the opportunities every other student has.

You might want to do a little introspective review and put yourself in the kid's position. How would you feel if you were a decent player and got cut because of a rumor?

There is no way you can cut this kid. If he earns a spot on the team, he should have it. It's not written in stome that he is leaving. Plans change, won't you look like a fool if he is still there again next year. Things change from year to year,and game to game. That's why we play them one inning at a time.

The weatherman last week said it was going to be sunny and no rain, rained everyday, his mom wanted him to be teacher.

I thought HS was about getting parents out of the life's of the kids. Just another case of parent open mouth, major effect for the kid.

Kids can't pick their parents.

I say the kid does not get on the team--if he wants to work out that is fine but to take a spot from a kid who will be there for the next 2 or three years is not right especially if this kids pending transfer is now public news ---also is he going to a school in your conference?

TCBI:

You misunderstood me, or I misunderstood you. I didn't mean to say he deserved a guaranteed spot.

I believe you implied that the student would make the team as SS/P and that the only reason you were considering cutting was because of his upcoming move.

If that's correct, my position stands. As long as he is a student in good standing he has the same right as any other student, and that includes playing on a team if he is good enough.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I say the kid does not get on the team--if he wants to work out that is fine but to take a spot from a kid who will be there for the next 2 or three years is not right especially if this kids pending transfer is now public news ---also is he going to a school in your conference?

There is your answer - I always see what TR will do, and do the opposite. Because TR has no sympathy for player, or parent. He mentors no one and does not care for anyones' opinion except his own.

There are no guarantees that any kid will be back the following year. NONE. You play with the team you have, not with what might be.

I still stick with my answer of not letting him on the team but allowing him to work out but you guys have made some good arguments for keeping him. Here is another angle we haven't hashed out yet - how will the other guys on the team respond to him?

Sounds like the cat is out of the bag about his transfer so everyone on the team will know he is gone after this year. Will that affect team chemistry? Will some of the guys give him a cold shoulder because they know he's gone?

This is tough because you want to find a solution that benefits everyone as best as possible. It stinks this kid out in limbo but TCB1 didn't put him there. TCB1 has to create a team for this year and build for the next few years. If he doesn't then he's going to find his career is on a rollercoaster - good one year / bad the next. You have to build each year and to have a kid you know will be gone makes that tough. Letting the kid work out helps him stay sharp for his next team. That is a very nice gesture to let him do that.

Think of it from Player B's point of view when you cut him "hey man this year we are going to cut you but if you try out next year your chances of making the team get better because so and so will be gone". Honestly this conversation won't take place because I can't see a coach letting any of the kids cut know they were the last man on the roster but the kids know who the last 3 or 4 might be. They will know they were passed over for this one kid who's only going to be there one year. It may drive a possible good player away from the program.

It's a tough situation but you got to look at the big picture and that includes a few years down the road. But I think everyone agrees the parent(s) messed up by telling the AD what's going on. They created the situation not TCB1.

[/QUOTE]

There are no guarantees that any kid will be back the following year. NONE. You play with the team you have, not with what might be.[/QUOTE]

+1

It's baseball not drama class.

dun-L-play

It is amazing how you like many others here think they know me so well and you have never met me or seen me run a team---it is absolutely amzing how you all live in this "virtual" world.

What do you know about who I mentor or not?
How do you know whether I care about anothers opinion or not?


To your final lines---and the kid you cut to keep to keep this kid decides not to cxome back next year---now what have you done?

Dub you are so freaking smart it scares me even with no info on your profile

Coach2709--I am with you--and I think every kid who gets cut will think he got cut because this tranfer-to be kid got the spot---and I still ask the question--is the other school in their conference?

Couple of things....

I'm not sure if the kid will be here next year or not. This has all just started. I am assuming he will not since he has expressed his wish to go elsewhere and his mother has conveyed that to the school.

My plan has always been to talk to the player and his parents to find out what is going on.

So lets play devils advocate: Lets say the parents say "Yes, he is going to a different school next year. Period." Make any difference? It does to me.

If one of the points of my program is to build a program, why wouldn't I want to keep those players in the fold who will help me over the next three years? Again, please be clear: If we didn't have to cut anyone else, there would not even be a question here. The young man would most likely make the team due to his talent (I'm assuming he doesnt' have any grade/attitude problems).

I think some of you are projecting that I'm angry at this young man for transferring. If so, please re-read my post. Nothing could be further from the truth.

A couple of you also insinuate that I'm not being fair to that kid and sensitive to his or his families situation. Well, what about the kid who gets cut in favor of a kid who will do nothing for us but play Freshman baseball, and then move on to another location. Would you, as that parent, not be upset with the coach who cut your son KNOWING that the other player wouldn't even be around for the next 3 years?

I'm keeping my eyes open to other points of view here, I hope a couple of you might look at your arguments and see how they work when applied to not just the young man in question, but the other players too.

Jimmy....you never answered my question. I think we agree that he has the same right as everyone else to try out. But don't you also agree that a coach in my position has to look at everything when making a choice? Would I keep a stud kid who was in danger of flunking out? Probably not. Would I keep a stud kid who was loaded up with demerits and constantly in trouble? Probably not. Would I keep a straight A student who was just awfult and couldn't run, throw, or hit? Probably not (although I'm actually more likely to keep that kid than the prior two).

What if a kid told you "I am going to play Freshman baseball and then never ever play baseball again" even while staying at your school. Would you keep him, or would you keep the slightly less talented kid who you feel very secure would play for you for 4 year? I know we can't see the future for any of these kids and can't know what will happen, but isn't it following the most logical path of keeping the "long-term" investment over the "short-term" quick money?

I also tend to come from the thought that I don't care much how many games my Freshmen win. I HOPE they win them all, but it doesn't make me mad at them or the coach if they don't, as long as they improve and are evaluated and learn how to play the game correctly. That's why I'd rather trade of the short term WINS now, for kids who could potentially help me win games on Varsity in 3 years. A kid who isn't here can't help me a bit.....

It's about commitment. It appears you are, he's not, next.

Hope it works out for you're Mom in the new school.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
dun-L-play

It is amazing how you like many others here think they know me so well and you have never met me or seen me run a team---it is absolutely amzing how you all live in this "virtual" world.

What do you know about who I mentor or not?
How do you know whether I care about anothers opinion or not?


To your final lines---and the kid you cut to keep to keep this kid decides not to cxome back next year---now what have you done?

Dub you are so freaking smart it scares me even with no info on your profile

Coach2709--I am with you--and I think every kid who gets cut will think he got cut because this tranfer-to be kid got the spot---and I still ask the question--is the other school in their conference?

You know TR, I do not know you - only by your advice which is what we all know each other by online. So once again your statement asinine. I do know one thing about you, however, by reading your posts, you are inflexible and intolerant of anyone who disagrees with you. You never see a gray area, it is always black and white. You are not Coach May, looking to mentor, you are looking to dictate. You demand respect without earning it.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Who cares where the kid plays next year, he could be deported for all you know. Still say you go with your 9 best that you have in front of you. Clear conscience - right thing to do for all. Maybe his experience will make a difference in whether he stays or not. Maybe the kid you put in his place decides he likes LaCrosse better because he is not getting any playing time. Nobody has a crystal ball.


Why would you cut a kid who is good and who has earned the right to be there? Because of the hope of building a better team 3 yrs from now? In the end, this kid will remember this, it will affect him, if you can live with it, then so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by TCB1:
Jimmy....you never answered my question. I think we agree that he has the same right as everyone else to try out.

You're right. And if he is good enough, as long as he is a student at your school, he has the right to make the team and play.

quote:

But don't you also agree that a coach in my position has to look at everything when making a choice? Would I keep a stud kid who was in danger of flunking out? Probably not. Would I keep a stud kid who was loaded up with demerits and constantly in trouble? Probably not.

Compltely different. This kid, as far as we know, has no school related deficiencies. He may be moving. Each of your other examples has a deficiency that makes the student ineligible to particiapate. Moving does not.

quote:

Would I keep a straight A student who was just awfult and couldn't run, throw, or hit? Probably not (although I'm actually more likely to keep that kid than the prior two).

Again, you're equating two different things...a kid who would not perform well enough to make the team with one who does. Apple, meet organge.

quote:

I also tend to come from the thought that I don't care much how many games my Freshmen win. I HOPE they win them all, but it doesn't make me mad at them or the coach if they don't, as long as they improve and are evaluated and learn how to play the game correctly. That's why I'd rather trade of the short term WINS now, for kids who could potentially help me win games on Varsity in 3 years. A kid who isn't here can't help me a bit.....

Does your school require a statement from all students that if they participate in sports they will play until they graduate? If not, then can you really single out this student for "special" treatment.

I'm sorry coach, but when I started my teaching career it was at a Catholic School and we didn't sacrifice a student's needs, opportunities, abilities or best interests for the possible benefit down the road. Nor did we punish a student for moving.

It sounds to me like you know the right thing to do would be to keep this student, but you're trying to justify not doing it.

If I was the kid's dad, and I found out that you cut my kid after he performed well enough to make the team and qualified in every other regard to play and was a student in good standing at your school, I'd have a chat with you and your AD and re-examine the schools mission statement and discuss the difference between high school baseball and select teams and college programs.

Yes, I know it's baseball and not choir. But the same principles apply. Each student at your school who is in good standing and who meets the performance standards or other prerequisites has an equal right to all opportunities the school offers. I'll bet the Bishop agrees.

Could not agree more with Jimmy.

I feel confident this Coach TCB1 for a Catholic HS will do the right thing. If not, the guilt will haunt him for years.

dub


you are so far off base it is ludicrous

TR -
I hope I am and I have misunderstood you. One can only go by what is posted. Showing concern for kids and how decisions affect them is not a weakness.

Jimmy0000

Your supposed superior intelligence again gets in your way of clear thinking in this case

A player has a right to try out but no right to make the team--that is up to the coach and his staff--playing baseball in HS as well as in college or any team for that matter is a priviledge and you earn that--this is noy youth ball where everyone plays


Mission Statement--that gets negated when it annoucned that the parnets and kid are going to another school-- Why did they say anything at all at this point?

I ask once again---is the next school in the same conference as the current school?

DUB--what guilt are you talking about ???

Dub and Jimmy--you can ridicule me all you want but I think I might sleep better at night than you two do--I am quite comfortable with who I am even if you and others in my "fan club" don't think so

Dub--someday ask my kids and their parents how "I don't care about them"--you might be surprised but no apology is required

On speaking to the family, have they told you they were going to move their son to the new school? If not, will they be surprised that you know that it is a possibility?

The reality is that there are no guarantees. The kid isn't guaranteed to make the team (this year or any future year) although you think that his talent will allow him to make it this year. My son has made his team each year so far, but he was not guaranteed to be on the team the following year and he did not have to guarantee the coach that he would stay at the school or that he would play baseball in future seasons.

Do you have a roster limit that requires you to carry a certain #? In your first post you indicate 14 or 15 slots, but don't indicate why you can't keep 16...that would obviously be the easy solution...

Not suggesting that any decision is right or wrong, just trying to point out that there is no guarantee to the players you keep for future seasons and while it may be likely that they'll stay at the school, there are many reasons that could cause one or more of them to not be at the school or playing baseball in future seasons...something to think about is all...who knows, maybe the kid will enjoy baseball with your team enough that he decides to say...

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Jimmy0000

Your supposed superior intelligence again gets in your way of clear thinking in this case

A player has a right to try out but no right to make the team--that is up to the coach and his staff--playing baseball in HS as well as in college or any team for that matter is a priviledge and you earn that--this is noy youth ball where everyone plays.

Once again you show off your inability to read. I have posted, several times here, that the right to make the team is the same as every other students' and is dependent on his performance. (ability, try-out, audition, good enough player...get it yet?)

You have a real problem either with reading or honesty.

quote:

Mission Statement--that gets negated when it annoucned that the parnets and kid are going to another school--

Where on earth do you get that? The mission statement of each Catholic school applies equally to all students. Ask the Bishop.

And it's not just a classroom thing. It applies to how the school regards, treats and educates students all of the time.

Is the kids still a student? Is his tuition paid? Does he have passing grades? Is he in good standing? Did he perform well enough to make the team?

I'm sorry, a projected move is not a disqualifier.

This is freshman high school baseball, not whatever that is that you do. It is not select travel. It is not a college program.

quote:

I ask once again---is the next school in the same conference as the current school?

Beats me. The coach said he and the kid have no issues about this move.

quote:

DUB--what guilt are you talking about ???

It's a conscience thing...you wouldn't understand.

quote:

Dub and Jimmy--you can ridicule me all you want but I think I might sleep better at night than you two do--I am quite comfortable with who I am even if you and others in my "fan club" don't think so

I don't ridicule you. I just point out what you've said. If you feel ridiculed by that, I really can't help it.

I couldn't care less how you sleep. Have you been stalking me? You know how I sleep? You should talk to someone about that.

TR-
1. Nobody has said that this kid has the right to make the team. If he is not good, then cut him.

2. Online it is difficult to judge someone's character. One can only go by words, not actions. My opinion of your posts remains the same and you have again proven my point by your latest harsh stance.

Cutting a kid who by all rights is a good player but he may or may not be at the school next season is wrong. You know it is wrong, and if you don't you should. You see HS sports is about the players, not the Coach. That is where you and I differ.

My jab about guilt was directed at us RC's. Nothing more.

quote:

You see HS sports is about the players, not the Coach.

I totally agree. Every player who shows up for tryouts has the right to be judged on performance and nothing else.
To me HS should be about the player and motivating them to learn and succeed in the classroom and on the field.
As far as the poor student this is a chance to show what the coach is made of. It is a chance to motivate and to make a difference in a kid's life.
TR's situation is different. He has the right to pick his players as he sees fit. The success of the team is often more important than the individual player. He runs a business and it is his decision as to what he deems important.

I wonder if a college coach who was told that his stud left-handed, 93MPH pitcher was going to be leaving in the pro draft and wouldn't stick around for his senior year, would cut him, thus making room for someone who otherwise wouldn't have made the team.

Based on what I have seen , that would not surprise me.

This is just my opinion. I have never punished a kid for anything a parent has done or said. Why would you? The player plays for you not the parent. When you have tryouts to select a team your picking the players based on who is the best players for your team. Your not cutting kids because they might transfer. Your not cutting kids because you dont like the parents or someone said something or did something or might do something. Your cutting the players you dont believe can help your program based on lack of ability to help your program.

A team is only that team one year. Every year its a new team. If you start cutting players because someone might transfer , or you heard someone might transfer or you hear a rumor that someone said something etc your using the cuts for something they are not for. Tryouts are used to select the best players for your team that year. They are not imo used to cull potential transfers from your program. Its based on ability.

Maybe there are some other issues at play here? Maybe the kid is caught in a situation he has no control over? In any case if he trys out and he is deserves to make the team he should make the team. Holding a grudge against a kid and cutting him because he may not be back the next year is wrong imo. Your penalizing the kid for something he might do. Your cutting him because he may not be back the next year. Your cutting him because he may want to go play at another school and attend another school where he has friends the next year. I dont think thats what cuts are designed for and I think it sends the wrong message.

You have no idea who will be back. Who will decide not to play next season. Who will move out of the district. Etc etc. If you start cutting kids for reasons outside of ability to help your team you open up a can of worms you might not be able to put the lid on. And quite honestly your punishing a kid for something he should not be punished for. And maybe he has a great time and enjoys being in your program and decides he is where he needs to be.

JMO

Coach,

I've admired your posts for some time. You are a coach who appears to understand your responsibilities to your players and to the Game of baseball.

You have your priorities straight and you respect the game.

In return you have the respect of many here. What breath of fresh air in this thread.

Interesting to see Coach May and Coach2709, probably the two coaches I have come to respect the most on this board, with diametrically opposed views.

Let me clear a couple things up, if I can.

1. This young man has filed the papers to transfer to another school; barring a complete reversal of his position, he IS going to attend school elsewhere next year. It is not just speculation or conjecture. He is going.

2. In no way, shape or form does his choice anger me or make me upset. Transfers among the Catholic schools in our area happen relatively often. I like and respect the other school he'll go to, have many friends there, and happen to know that he'll go to an excellent coach there.

3. Despite TR's query about the other school being in the same league, that doesn't really affect MY decision at all. They ARE in our league, but again, that has NO BEARING on any of this for me. If that would affect TR's decision, then he has his reasons and I completely respect that, but it makes no difference to me.

4. There was nothing secretive or hush-hush about his decision to change schools. He has apparently mentioned it to other students and the phone call to the AD was also very open and up front about them deciding to go to the other school because he had more friends there. There was nothing underhanded about the AD telling me about it.

5. For all those who think I'm trying to justify something...well, you certainly don't know me, so I can see why you might come up with that hypothesis, but I'm not quite that insecure that I need to come on here and try to get advice to justify my reasoning. I posted it because I thought it was an interesting situation and I feel I can almost always glean some information from some of the wise posters on the HSBBWEB.

No one has still responded to my question about the kids who get cut if that kid makes it. Someone said if they were the dad they'd have words with my AD about how could I cut the kid knowing how talented he was. Well, I like to think that if I was the dad of a kid who was cut while the coach knew another kid made the team and wouldn't be back the next year, I might have some words too.

Honestly, the easiest thing to do would be to ignore the whole "transfer" issue, keep the more talented kid, cut the kids who are not as talented and trust that most people would say "Oh, he's smart, he kept that talented kid". The tougher choice is to look deeper than the surface and look a couple of years down the road and say that maybe I want to keep the kid who is not quite as talented because I see something more in him than just mediocre ability....I see a kid I think will work hard and blossom into something more down the road.

Jimmy03...you talk about apples and oranges and then you bring the comparision up about a college coach and a kid going pro? Apples and WATERMELONS, there buddy!

Coach May, as I said, I respect you for all the many things I have read. I hope you understand that I would not make any decision with a motivating factor of trying to "punish" a kid. IF (note I said IF) I were to not keep this young man, it would not be out of spite, or anger or punishment. It would be out of my feeling that IF I had to cut a kid, I would weigh ALL the pros' and cons of each kid: Speed, strength, attitude, grades, dedication, and on and on and on. Would not a kids ability to help you in the future be just one of the factors to consider?

Let me ask this: Two mirror image kids. Equal talent and intangibles. You can only keep ONE. If one would be leaving after one year, and with the other there is no indication of any change of schools, are you telling me you wouldn't at all weigh that as a factor to consider? Come on......

I'm glad this discussion has brought some great points out on both sides. Ultimately I will do what is best for THE PROGRAM (not me, not the individual player) at my school. Dictated by my personal beliefs and what is considered proper by the school. But no matter what, I will always consider ALL factors when I make decisions on who to keep and who to cut...more than just ability, all the intangibles will be considered. And yes, I do consider, whether you will be there as a factor; not the ONLY FACTOR, but still a factor.

quote:

1. This young man has filed the papers to transfer to another school; barring a complete reversal of his position, he IS going to attend school elsewhere next year. It is not just speculation or conjecture. He is going.

TCB1 what you put here has really got me thinking about something - why doesn't he go ahead and transfer already? Is there some sort of rule that is keeping him from going right now?

From what I'm reading I don't think there are any types of hard feelings on either side but what's keeping him at your school?

No restrictions on transferring to another private school as long as each school signs off on it. Both schools will sign off on it.

I assume they just don't want to move in the middle of the semester. It would probably be quite a bit more distracting and disruptive to his schoolwork to change now. And he does appear to have quite a few friends at our school, so it just seems more of his close friends are at the other school.

quote:

No one has still responded to my question about the kids who get cut if that kid makes it. Someone said if they were the dad they'd have words with my AD about how could I cut the kid knowing how talented he was

Yes they have. You pick the most talented player. That is easy to explain and that is the only defensible explanation.
You are making the situation fit a decision you have already made and are trying to justify it in your own mind.

quote:

Originally posted by TCB1:
Jimmy03...you talk about apples and oranges and then you bring the comparision up about a college coach and a kid going pro? Apples and WATERMELONS, there buddy!

Yes it was, and intentionally so. And it was not addressed or meant for you.

Bottom line as long as the kid is a student at your school he should have access to all the opportunities afforded to all students. Unless the school requires players to sign an affadvit that they will remain at the school for four years, his projected departure should not have any affect on his selection/non selection.

You say you will not do what's best for the individual player, but for the program. Back when I taught at a Catholic School in Oregon, and coached football, we were all expected to make those decisions with WWJD and Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam in mind...regardless of whether we were in a classroom or an extracurricular activity.

And in regards to whoever was the last one cut if you did the right thing, he was going to be cut if the kid didn't move. His status hasn't changed.

The only thing that has changed is the projected move. Had he not decided to move, he would have made the team. Thus if he is cut,regardless of your protestations, there will be but one reason.

TCB1 you have already said that this kid would be your 4th or 5th best player in his class. Keeping him does not mean he is getting another player cut. Players cut themselves when they are simply not talented enough to help your program.

If you feel that it would be best for your program to cut a more talented player simply because he will not be in your program after this year that is your decision. Would that not also be true of seniors who will not be in your program the following year due to graduation?

I understand your feeling of lack of loyalty to the program and keeping a kid that will not be around vs keeping a player that you think will be there for the duration. But we have no way of knowing how this will all actually play out. And lets be honest if a kid is going to be cut he is not cut because the 4th or 5th best player on the team is kept. He is cut because he is not as good as the last player kept on the roster. Good luck

If the parents wanted him to play why tell everybody he was transfering. semms kind of a no brainer to me.

You know I see where all you other guys are coming from and I don't think you're wrong but the more I read this thread and think about it the more I think there is something going on that we don't know about. I'm not saying TCB1 is leaving anything out but I just don't think we are seeing the whole picture.

You guys have open enrollment and can go to any school you want to - so why did this kid choose your school over the other one in the first place? If his mom went to the other school and this kid has close friends at it then why enroll at your school? The parents have roughly 3 months AFTER the season / school is over to make the move so why tell your AD / school they want to transfer? Are the parents that clueless or is there some sort of ulterior motive?

I'm not going to sit here and say that this is the first thing I thought of when I read the OP because I didn't start thinking this way until I had read the thread like 4 times. When I did read the OP I thought it was kinda weird based on what TCB1 put but didn't think too much of it. Now that more information has come out and I have put some thought into it things just seem a little fishy here. Maybe it's just bad decisions on everyone's part but I would think (and could be wrong here) that most people would choose to approach this situation differently / tactfully.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong here but there are things going on I keep asking myself "why did they choose to do that?" I truly understand where you guys are coming from on keeping this kid but it just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.

I do not know if this was lost in all the discussions here but this is a 9th GRADE team which to me makes it a developmental team for the final three years of HS baseball-- to me this team is there to develop the players who will continue on thru the program in coming years--Like I said previously as did others let the furture transfer practice with the team but not get game time--the game time goes to the young men who are remaining.

I too wonder why the parents made this all public at this time--it makes no sense to me

Another question--if the young mann transferred at mid year would he be eligible to play ball at the new school or does he have to sit out this year?

TCB1 - It seems you have made your decision. If you can justify cutting the 4th or 5th best player in lieu of 15th best player than so be it. This kid will remember it, his team mates (your players) and future players will not forget it. I agree with Coach May - predicting what will happen next year or down the road is futile. The kid may decide to stay, or others could choose to leave.

From what I understand, you would not have known this kid was leaving if it were not for the A.D. Did the mother talk to you directly? Did the kid?

You know deep down what you're doing is not in line with the Catholic philosophy, or just a sense of decency towards this kid. Are you going to tell him why he was cut? or Are you going to say he wasn't good enough. That's what I would like to know.

Agree with Coach 2709 that this is strange. I don't get why the mom would tell the A.D. And, how strange it is that TCB1 has no feelings what-so-ever. I would be pretty disappointed if I knew one my top players was leaving. Now it seems that everyone knows that the kid is leaving and it is sure thing, when TCB1 first posted, it was a "maybe". I think there is more here than meets the eye. I still stick by my post about keeping the kid - 9 best, no problems.

9th grade team = developmental team for the future

quote:

9th grade team = developmental team for the future

Have them sign a contract that they will not leave for the duration of their HS career and your point is made. Otherwise, you play with what you have from year to year.

Contracts mean nothing-- Just more PC mumbo jumbo

I still develop the kids I EXPECT to be here not the ones I know for a fact WILL NOT

The kid's enrollment/tuition entitles him to earn anything the school has to offer this year. From a varsity/development perspective the sixteenth ranked freshman player, who gets cut is more unlikely to ever make varsity than it is for the stud kid to change his mind and stay at the school. If the stud kid is cut you're guaranteeing he transfers.

For those who would cut the kid .....

A talented freshman moves to town who projects to be a solid varsity contributor by junior year. The father is in the corporate world. You find out the family has been transferred and moved every two years for the past ten years. Do you cut the kid on the assumption he won't be around junior year?

For those who would cut the kid ....

Your school receives a freshman Dominican exchange student. He'll only be at the school one year. He's in the US to learn from the experience. Student exchange programs are about new experiences and good will. Do you cut him from the freshman team?

Difference---this kid has papers for transfer already in the works according to TCB

Just had a conversation with a top college coach regarding this situation and asked him what he would do--his answer was simple--the kid does not make the team--in fact this year he has cut seniors because he has freshman better than they are

quote:

I still develop the kids I EXPECT to be here not the ones I know for a fact WILL NOT

quote:

Contracts mean nothing-- Just more PC mumbo jumbo

So, if the kid says, guess what I'm staying. Then what do you do? Do you still cut him? The point is words are just that. Kids can come and go, your job as a HS Coach is to work with what you have. If you don't like it, then Coach a travel team and get out of Coaching HS kids where you have no control over who is available from year to year.

RJM - agree.

quote:

Just had a conversation with a top college coach regarding this situation and asked him what he would do--his answer was simple--the kid does not make the team--in fact this year he has cut seniors because he has freshman better than they are

Ah - the difference for the College Coach is the incoming Freshman kids are better - That was never conveyed in this scenario. In fact, this kid is said to be better than others trying out.

dub

You totally ignore the developmental aspect which to me is key here

And what does it being a Catholic school have to do with anything, including coaches ethics/ Why do people such as yourself keep going to religion and/or politics in situations like this--it is simply a baseball decision, nothing more, nothing less

TR - I do get the development aspect and in a perfect world, where kids don't move, get injured or burn out, it works out great. That is why travel teams are easier to Coach - because you have control. HS you do not have that luxury. This kid may decide he loves it at this school, because his baseball experience was great, you just don't know. That is why I think you keep the best.

You can't rely on the kids being there from year to year. The point is, HS Coaches have no control over who will stay, go, or if the the next Bryce Harper will be moving into the district. So you work with what you have from year to year.

quote:

This kid may decide he loves it at this school, because his baseball experience was great, you just don't know.

No offense dub but here's the flipside to what you just put. This kid has probably been there since August. He's probably met the other baseball players and heard what they think of the program. If that is so and he's still got the transfer papers then he wants out. There is still something not right about the whole situation but he's probably been there long enough to know what he's getting into and he wants out. Obviously all of this could be wrong if the kid transferred in sometime not too long ago but that just makes the whole situation even MORE weird.

Do you really want a kid on the team who doesn't want to be there? The impression I'm getting is this kid wants out and no idea why he doesn't want out now. I just got the feeling (and I'm probably wrong because that tends to happen a lot) that if he's on the team some sort of huge drama is going to happen. By cutting him and letting him work out you help this kid stay sharp but he won't be a distraction. He'll show up whenever he wants, throws, takes some groundballs / flyballs, cuts and maybe some bullpen work but if he becomes a distraction then send him home.

Coach 2709 - I see your point. But still I would air on the side of caution. Why would the kid try out at all if he doesn't want to be a part of the program?

Two things.
1. Cutting a kid that should be on the team (he is one of the top 5 kids) just doesn't sit well with me. Obviously, there is a difference in opinion as whether you are wasting a spot. If he is in the top 5, you are not.

2. Parents shooting their mouth off about whether or not they are staying or going, like the coach, don't like the program is just that. Having been around, I have seen plenty of great kids and players who come from parents who are overly opinionated, and I don't think the kids should have to pay the price for their parent's transgressions. We have yet to find out if this kid even knows about his Mom's intent.

I agree there is something missing.

quote:

Do you really want a kid on the team who doesn't want to be there? The

Isn't this rather presumptive and punitive in intent.
The OP has given the reasons the guy is transferring. Nothing negative toward his present school.

quote:

Would that not also be true of seniors who will not be in your program the following year due to graduation?

That is what happened at my son's college. The new coaches told the SRs that their roll was a mentoring roll and they wouldn't see conference action. It was a disaster. He is doing it again this season.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
dub

You totally ignore the developmental aspect which to me is key here

And what does it being a Catholic school have to do with anything, including coaches ethics/ Why do people such as yourself keep going to religion and/or politics in situations like this--it is simply a baseball decision, nothing more, nothing less

Again, it something you don't understand. Don't worry about it. It obviously doesn't affect you.

quote:

We have yet to find out if this kid even knows about his Mom's intent.

dub this is a great point and honestly I was working on the assumption that he did know about the transfer. If he doesn't know about the transfer that does change things in my eyes. I have always tried my best to not let what stupid things parents do affect how I feel about and treat their son's on the team (really hard sometimes).

BHD - after reading dub's post yes it can be presumptive unless the kid does know about the transfer. If he knows about the transfer request then I don't see it as presumptive or punitive.

I also think it's different than the two situations that RJM (I think it was him) that said what about a kid who has parents that have jobs that could force them to move or the Dominical exchange student. In the first case there really isn't a choice by the kid or the parents. The choice is out of their hands and probably a good chance they want to stay. As for the foreign exchange student that is a situation the whole experience is bigger than the individuals involved. It's something the kid will experience that most people he knows will never get. I would probably keep this kid even if he's never heard of the game just to be around the atmosphere of the team.

In the case of this kid he has a choice to stay or leave. He's (or his parents) are choosing to leave. It's tough situation and I'm glad I'm not the one going through it. It's easy for me to sit here and say a bunch of stuff because honestly I'm emotionally unattached to the situation. I don't have to look the kid in the eyes (unless I decide to post a list.....just playing guys) and say you're cut. If I was in this situation I might be going the other way. I have tried to be a little bit devil's advocate also because I think this topic deserves consideration for debate. Overall though this is just a squirrely situation that doesn't set too well with me. There's something missing but no idea what it is.

TCB1 what does the AD say about the situation? How does he feel about your leaning towards cutting this kid?

Jimmy00000

You have no idea whatsoever what I understand, not even close--don't assume that you do--

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Jimmy00000

You have no idea whatsoever what I understand, not even close--don't assume that you do--

TWHit:

We all have some some idea of what you understand. You told us in a previous post...[i]"And what does it being a Catholic school have to do with anything, including coaches ethics/ Why do people such as yourself keep going to religion and/or politics in situations like this--it is simply a baseball decision, nothing more, nothing less"[/i*

Has your memory gone the way of your reading comprehension?

If you understood, you wouldn't have had to ask the question.

jimmy0000

You are more condescending then I even imagined--you must be one heck of a teacher do you bring your "attitude' to the lectern and chalkboard in your classroom ?

Let's flip this and say coach has rumored that he will not be at the school he is presently coaching next season, does the AD remove him from coaching this season. This is exactly what the coach is doing to player. It would be interesting to see how the coach would handle the situation if he was in the same position as the player.

Not the same thing--

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
jimmy0000

You are more condescending then I even imagined--you must be one heck of a teacher

TWHit, you constantly misread and/or misrepresent what others post. Is it condescension to correct you when you make inaccurate accusations?

Is it condescension to remind you of your own posts when you are make statements contrary to your own previous statements?

Is it condescension to point out that your demonstrated hatred and constant bashing of umpires has grown tiresome?

Personally, I don't think so. But if you do, I can live with that.

I must be confused--I thought we are offering opinions here---

How do umpires enter into this thread--OPEN YOUR EYES--- don't allow your dislike for me to blind you

Your final remark simple shows you thinking and small mindedness towards me and anyone who debates with umpires or you individually

And yes I have never met an umpire , except one group in RI, that I would sit down for a drink with. I have an utter distate for most of them and I am not ashamed to admit it--

I would truly like to bring you to RI and let the guys I use there teach you a thing or two---they do 45 games in 4 days and in all the years I have been doing the event not one team has complained about them--in fact they compiment me on them

In the OP TCB1 said that he was going to keep 14 or 15 players:

"However, we have 21 kids trying out for 14 or 15 spots. Kids 17 through 21 probably wouldn't be kept anway based on their abilities. But players 15 and 16 might make the team, depending on the numbers. So do you bump one of them for the more talented player who is here for one year? Or do keep a more marginal kid who might actually be around next year?"

Unless there is a roster limit - and I'd find it hard to believe that it would be 14 or 15 - why not just keep 15 or 16? It is a simple answer to a "problem" that may or may not end up happening. Just because someone asked for transfer papers doesn't mean it is going to happen.

TR, the first words of the post: "4-year Catholic high school." It obviously matters to the OP...

quote:

And yes I have never met an umpire , except one group in RI, that I would sit down for a drink with. I have an utter distate for most of them and I am not ashamed to admit it--

Ugh. This has turned into what I thought was a thoughtful debate, to childish taunts. TR, you are not improving my view of you. I'm certain you don't care, but I'm just saying if you want to garner respect, you have to show respect.

Coach 2709 - Let's say for the sake of this scenario that the kid does know, but he isn't on board 100%. His mom is the driving force - maybe if he were given a shot on the team, he might convince her otherwise.

I'm with you, too many holes. I get why you want to get on with the kids who stay, but I come back to why would this kid even show up to a tryout if he didn't care? If he puts little to no effort in at the tryout, then cut, but if he hustles and gives a great effort, then it is a clear decision in my mind.

dub

If you think I am concerned about impressing you I am not-- Respect is earned not garnered by being a virtual poster, even though you may think so--

UGH yourself--just stating the facts as they are

Getting back to the original question "To Cut, Or Not to Cut", I'm with the posters that say select your team based on the best talent that tried out... period!

Not selecting your players based on skills and attitude related to baseball to me just sends the wrong message. You want to have a reputation of cutting a kid, who you admit is a better player, this year because of where he will/might be next year? So what exactly does that mean. Are you committing to keeping the lesser talented kid on the team for multiple years? What happens next year if YOU get the stud transfer? Do you stick with the original team of players because of your commitment to development and not select the stud kid? What if his parent is in the service and he MIGHT also be gone the following year? Duh, where does it stop. Are you going for the crystal ball approach of selecting a team? Of course not. IMO you re-evaluate the talent you have each year and put the best team on the field, regardless of level!

Dub - this thread is starting to take a turn for the worse. I do want to say I've enjoyed picking your brain over this matter though. You have truly made me think on this quite a bit.

As for whether he knows and is not on 100% then I would have to favor the kid but if he's got all these friends on the other team that makes me think he's good with the move. Another question I have is what feeder school did this kid go to before he entered high school? My thinking is each high school has it's own feeder school. Did he go to the feeder school of the high school he's currently at or did he go to the feeder school of the school he's transferring to? I don't know but this whole scenario is just perplexing me.

I've seen many kids try out who didn't care over the years - they might think their feet don't stink, parents want it more than they do, the kid is a bum or whatever. I've seen a lot of crazy things over the years in terms of tryouts.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:

And yes I have never met an umpire , except one group in RI, that I would sit down for a drink with. I have an utter distate for most of them and I am not ashamed to admit it--

Honesty at last.

quote:

I would truly like to bring you to RI and let the guys I use there teach you a thing or two---they do 45 games in 4 days and in all the years I have been doing the event not one team has complained about them--in fact they compiment me on them

The number of games an association covers says nothing about its level of performance. I have worked tournaments that involved over 60 games in 4 days and was handled by a single association. Still meaningless.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if I learned something from another association. I believe every umpire can learn something or improve his performance regardless of his current level of performance or ball worked.

That's why I attend NCAA clinics and Pro clinics or camps every year. My son, a double AA MiLB umpire, teaches me something every year.

When I think I can no longer get better, I'll retire.

I am absolutely amazed at the responses this post has garnered, and while I think it has gone astray into some personal attacks between posters that don't need to happen, I still think there are some valid points being made.

I will say this to a couple of posts: Dub-L-Play, you are entitled to your opinion of me. But I don't really appreciate your attacks on me, impugning my motives and my religious beliefs. "You know it is wrong, and if you don't you should. You see HS sports is about the players, not the Coach. That is where you and I differ." Really? This is what you KNOW about me from me posting this question and reflecting on the options? Well, certainly is a good thing that you aren't as judgmental as I apparently am.

"You know deep down what you're doing is not in line with the Catholic philosophy, or just a sense of decency towards this kid." Please feel free to quote that philosophy for me.

'Are you going to tell him why he was cut? or Are you going to say he wasn't good enough. That's what I would like to know." Maybe now I am reading between the lines, but I take that as another shot at me and that you are presuming I won't tell him the truth. Sorry, no. If he was to be cut, he would be told EXACTLY why I made that decision. I don't play those kinds of games, though you are free to create your own twisted opinion of the kind of person I am. In fact, you've already "tweaked" the situation to fit the conclusion that you've drawn about me.

"This kid will remember it, his team mates (your players) and future players will not forget it." Unfortunately, every kid I've ever had to cut "remembers" it, now don't they? And most of them DON'T LIKE IT! So what, now I'm supposed to never cut anyone for any reason because they will disagree with my reason for cutting them? I can't do that. I have to make my decision and then live with the fact that whoever I cut will be unhappy with my decision.

"Strange it is that TCB1 has no feelings what-so-ever" -- I'm not sure where you get this. If I had no feelings what so ever why would I be working through this while I consider my options? The point you are missing is that the EASY thing would be to just keep him and not worry about next year; but this has been a program I've built over 15 years and I take it's life and it's future well-being very seriously. I want to do what is, first and foremost, good for this school's program, and the needs of the individuals (mine and the players) comes in after that.

Both you and Dub-L have commented that I've made up my mind and I'm just trying to justify my decision...again, presumptious on your part and completely wrong. I am searching for the answers that will help me make the best decision when the time comes, and I am working through it slowly. What purpose is served by you making a judgment about my motives and my ethics when in fact I have not done anything yet but investigate the situation?

I am asking for no one's permission or blessing; I did ask for people's input. Feel free to give me your input and what you would do, but I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the personal attacks at home.

To feed you all some more information:

Found out today that the player in question has withdrawn his registration fee from our school, and has paid it for next year at the other school. Before some of you get suspicious, the office knows this because the school was asked to simply transfer the funds from our school to the other; which they did.

The player in question went to a feeder school that feeds primarily to the OTHER school where he will be transferring. Although we certainly do get students from that school, geographically speaking most of those kids are closer to the other school and go there. I don't know why his family chose to send him to our school. I know his mom graduated from the other school.

PERHAPS one of the reasons the young man is leaving our school is because another student, who he was friends with, transferred at Christmas break to a local public school. Maybe the loss of one of his friends was the final straw in his wish to move to the other school.

Finally, I still don't get those who say there is no question and you "just keep the most talented players"...I have NEVER just kept the most talented players. I look beyond JUST the talent and look at all the other relevant factors and intangibles. I don't think I would keep the most talented player if I knew he was involved in another activity at the same time and would miss a lot of practices and games....I would keep the less talented player who would be there every game.

Next step is to talk to the parents and find out their plans, and then determine whether their ultimate plans will have any bearing on my decision. Thanks for everyone's input.

I hope you let him know if you intend to cut him before he sweats his butt off at your tryouts.

Coach the fact that you are asking for advice about this situation tells me you indeed have a heart and you want to make a decision that you feel right about. Of course you want to send the right message to your players in your program and all those that aspire to play in it one day. You want them to know that loyalty to the program and putting in your time is very important. And you don't want them to think that you will cut a kid that will be loyal to the program and keep a kid that is going to transfer the next season. All of these are valid reasons to feel like the best thing to do is remove this player from consideration from your program and give that opportunity to a kid who will be a part of your program the next 4 years.

IMO if you are not going to allow this young man to be a part of your program because he is going to transfer next year then just tell him that. There is no need to put him through a tryout that is pointless.

My point is just because a player will not be in your program the next season for whatever reason does not stop you from helping that player be the best player he can be. It does not stop you from working with him , coaching him , teaching him , mentoring him and making a positive impact on his life and his baseball career. If this young man is talented enough to help his team win this year then you owe it to him and his team mates to allow him to do just that. You rise above the feelings that are only natural in a situation like this. "Scr_w it if he is going to transfer I'm not going to waste my time on him."

The fact is you don't have to cut anyone that you believe deserves to be in your program if you keep him. You show your other players in your program that you are bigger than this situation and you care about every player even if they don't intend to be in your program the next season.

I have helped many players from opposing teams over the years. They don't play for me. I am not their coach. But they are a baseball player and I am a baseball coach. And that is all that really matters. You help them anyway you can and you rise above these petty politics. Coach this is just my opinion and regardless of what you decide to do I wish you well.

Bobblehead...as I'm trying to accumulate all the information to make a decision, yes, if I decide that he won't make the team BECAUSE he is transferring, I would make that clear to his parents and him.

Coach May,thanks for the kind words. I have always been a coach who kept kids that, in my opinion, most other coaches might not keep. They were "under-talented" but they were hard working and s****** and their inclusion on the team did not reduce anyone elses playing time or make us feel like we had too many kids on the team. That really is MY ONLY concern in this situation (despite the protestaions of posters like Dub and Jimmy, who seem convinced that I have an ulterior motive,and some shocking lack of scruples)

Don't you find it interesting, May, that the same posters who say I am not acting in a Christian/Catholic way and say I have no morals and poor ethics, are the same ones who keep saying: IF HE'S TALENTED YOU KEEP HIM. YOU ALWAYS KEEP THE TALENT, etc?.......Whereas, I think I look at the big picture and try to keep the kids I feel I can RELY on in the future. Can I predict the future? OF course not. But that really is one of the things you have to look at, especially with Freshmen.

Despite what some have said, I think you have to consider MORE than just picking the 15 most TALENTED freshmen. I've found that the majority of kids are not, AS SENIORS, what they were as FRESHMEN....some of the big studs as Frosh were just that because they were bigger and stronger and more mature than the other kids. Some of the smaller weaker players get bigger and surpass those who were physically more mature. So yes, I try to look at those things that don't tend to change as much: work ethic, reliability, stability, good grades, etc......not IN PLACE of talent, but as a very important factor.

And I still consider a kid who can ONLY contribute his Freshman year as one who is inherently not as helpful to me as a kid who can play for all 4 years....doesn't mean I will cut that kid, but I think you are short-sighted for not considering ALL the factors of what a kid brings to your program

As for another question...if I told my AD that I was going to leave, and he felt it was best to get rid of me now because he felt is was best for the program, I might disagree, but I would understand and would accept that it was just an advance choice on what was going to happen anyway. Heck, I make less than $1000 a year as a head coach! It might even be profitable for me to get fired!

Now those are two good back to back posts.

quote:

"You know deep down what you're doing is not in line with the Catholic philosophy, or just a sense of decency towards this kid." Please feel free to quote that philosophy for me.

TCB1-
Coach May was much more eloquent trying to help you make your decision. I obviously hit a nerve, which was meant more to provoke thought and compassion, not to poke at your integrity.

The Christian saying of do unto others as you would have them do unto you came to mind. I was thinking of how upset I would be if my son came home and said he was cut and it was my fault because of talking to the AD. I was thinking if you work hard at something and do well, you should be on the team. And I said that the kid will remember it.


When I said you had no feelings what so ever - I was just quoting you saying you were not angry at the boy. You even said you held no hard feelings... I think you misunderstood my statement.

You asked for feedback and you received it. Mine was never meant to be unthoughtful, and I apologize if you took it that way. I thought I could help.

Kids do jostle around in our county a bit... I've lost a few to transfers you could see coming a mile away. This year I gained a really good one. I don't cut into their playing time or status on the team. Usually it is parent driven by forces that are not controllable.
Best wishes to you all... my arm hurts like helk... ain't it great to be back on the fields.

quote:

my arm hurts like helk

You should feel my knees right now. I should have been a first baseman instead of a catcher. Stupid cold weather - Al Gore and global warming......yeah right.

My knees are the only thing holding up... my right arm is sore from throwing and left bicep is sore I guess from fungos... you young guys go ahead and laugh now; I used to...

What a couple of wusses! I throw just as hard as I did thirty years ago. The ball just arrives much later now.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

My point is just because a player will not be in your program the next season for whatever reason does not stop you from helping that player be the best player he can be. It does not stop you from working with him , coaching him , teaching him , mentoring him and making a positive impact on his life and his baseball career. If this young man is talented enough to help his team win this year then you owe it to him and his team mates to allow him to do just that. You rise above the feelings that are only natural in a situation like this. "Scr_w it if he is going to transfer I'm not going to waste my time on him."

The fact is you don't have to cut anyone that you believe deserves to be in your program if you keep him. You show your other players in your program that you are bigger than this situation and you care about every player even if they don't intend to be in your program the next season.

I have helped many players from opposing teams over the years. They don't play for me. I am not their coach. But they are a baseball player and I am a baseball coach. And that is all that really matters. You help them anyway you can and you rise above these petty politics. Coach this is just my opinion and regardless of what you decide to do I wish you well.

Good stuff Coach May, really good, compassionate and caring, that's what players look back on as they move up the ladder, that one special coach with that attitude sticks with them for life. Not whether he was the best coach or not, but what he did to help him to reach his goals along the way, even for one season.

Anyone thing that perhaps to that parent, it doesn't matter, it may not even matter to the player either, that's why it came out as early as it did, and I don't think the player should be penalized if the parent is determined to transfer their child to another program, regardless of the reasons. I think this is a very hard decision and yes, one has to do what they need to for that one year, or perhaps over look other circumstances and feel as Caoch May does, that is what seperates good coaches from really great ones, no matter what level you are talking about. Speaking to them aobut the situation is good if that helps to make the decision for you.
One good point is, especially in private school situations, how do you know from year to year who will be there next year or not? I don't think that should be a part of the reason not to select a player. JMO.

Just to let everyone know what happened:

Caught the parents after a practice and asked if I could speak with them. Sat down with them and explained my concerns...Dad said he not only understood, but that he was a former high school basketball coach and had a policy that he would not keep a player who he knew was leaving if it meant getting rid of another "keepable" player who would presumably stick around.

They offered to remove their son from consideration from the team and I asked them not to do that as I was still wrestling with the decision. They agreed but said they would understand if that was the reason he did not make the team.

As I've said all along, I would not want to cut a kid in favor of a kid who I KNEW would be back. We essentially had 5 Freshmen who we simply believed did not have the grades/attitude/intensity/ability/dedication to make the team or help us in the near future, or most likely in the years down the road. But we had two other kids who were close to taking the last spot (along with the "transfer" kid)...

Well, Bubble Player 1 turned up with 30 demerits for something he says he didn't do. He is appealing this allegation, but until that time he is unable to participate in any extracurricular activity. Pretty much made that choice for me.

The other player, quite unfortunately, was playing pick-up basketball and broke his ankle. He's in a cast and then a brace for about the next 6-8 weeks, ending his season. He's been invited to come out and be with the team to help out in whatever capacity he can.

In the end, as I'd hoped, it all worked out. We've kept a decent player who will be with us for this year and move on to our sister school next year. We will see if those other two players (and/or any of the other players who didn't make it) improve by next year and get another shot. Thanks again for everyone's input.

Good luck coach. I know your glad that this is behind you.

This has been a great thread. I am not a coach but it gives great insight as to some of the issues a coach faces that we (as parents and fans) may never have even contemplated.

Personally, I fell on the side of keeping the best players. Here is the reason that you may not have considered as a coach.

Best thing that ever happened to my son was getting cut his 8th grade year when trying out for the local High School JV team (no middle school teams in his district). Sounds odd but it is the truth. It sparked a determination in him that only the sting of not making his team could have done. He is a much better athlete physically and mentally today and honestly, I can't say for certain that had he made it his 8th grade year that he would have the same fire he has today. What are you teaching the kid on the bubble when you keep him and let a better player go, just because he is going to transfer the next year? Trust me, the kid on the bubble knows he is on the bubble.


Glad to see it all worked out in the end.