Too late for elite academic recruiting for 2016 grad?

In summary, the answers to your Ivy questions are that he would have to walk-on after being admitted.  The time for your son to receive athletic sponsorship and support from the Coach is past unless there are extenuating circumstances.   He would have to apply (late), be admitted (late) and walk-on which is not going to be easy since the Regular Decision deadline was early Jan 2016.

If he has been accepted and the D3 coach wants him & supported him through high academic admissions why are we having this discussion?  What is it that he really wants?  Your son has good ACT score and GPA.  What have other coaches and experts said about his baseball skills and projectability?  I'm sensing that he is strong academically but a very late bloomer that has yet to discover if he has any true baseball potential.  Some coaches were willing to take a chance on him, but you are wondering if there are other options.  Am I off base, if so please let me know.  I look forward to your response.  

A few years ago a friend's son blossomed his senior year. His high school team was loaded. He didn't get on the mound until senior year. He absolutely dominated. All the local D1s expressed interest. One was an Ivy. The dad had attended the Ivy for undergrad and law school. He couldn't manage any pull. The kid was told he had to get accepted outside baseball. He didn't.  He ended up pitching in the A10.

By senior year roster spots are typically filled. At an academically elite school the coach has probably used up his athletic passes with the admissions department.

DaddyO just so you know, Fenway is the guy here.   Even though  I know much less than he's forgotten I'll wade into say 2 things.  

One, I think your son missed the boat. If he wants to play baseball at a top academic D1  I think his best option is to take a gap year and work in getting recruited for next year at Ivies, Patriot league schools, etc.  With his academics, worst case scenario is that he has to go through the trouble of re-applying to the UC's and others again.

Two, sometimes you get lucky.  There's a local guy who got recruited by Cal Poly in late spring after they lost players to the draft.  But that's an isolated incident  He was coming back from TJ and no doubt he had been on their radar before that.

Oh, and 3 - there will come a time when we all regret giving any weight at all to the US News rankings when helping our children decide where to attend college.

His thoughts were that he didn't cast as big of a net as he should have, but the reality is that he was a borderline prospect 9 months ago who did not attend the camps that would have gotten him a look, and if he had he still would have not been the prospect he is now.

He's applied to a few D3 schools with support, and has been honest with the coaches in that he is considering multiple schools.

I'd figured the ship had sailed for the Ivy League, but was probably more interested in late senior season recruiting in other conferences.

"He's also been admitted to several D1 schools that offered no support in admissions but are giving him the basic "you can walk on" email."

Most of the D1s have locked up their recruiting and spent the available scholarship dollars at this point for the 2016s and probably most 2017s, too.   However, there are ~7+ players on each team that are not getting athletic scholarship dollars, and are vying for a spot.  If your son gets his pitching numbers up, there could be an opportunity.   Many D3s recruit during the high school senior year to plug holes in their roster

Your travel coach and/or high school coach should go to bat for him with any contacts they may have during the coming season if he is performing at the level of the schools he targets.

The draft opens up roster spots each year, too, and all coaches want pitchers that can throw 90+.

Several years ago from keewartson's high school, I know of a player that got "recruited" to a D3 in May of his senior year after the coach saw him play a new position and another to an ACC school in June of senior year after the university lost their catcher in the draft.

I agree with JCG about the US News rankings. A student may have to make a choice between playing baseball or going to a top 50 ranked USN school without playing baseball.

An aside - I understand that the OP's son isn't interested in a list of possibilities outside a top 50 school, yet for others reading this thread who are looking at colleges with a child, I want to point out that some students with a high ACT score and enough AP passing test scores make JuCo a non-possibility. A student with stats like the OP describes may not have two years of gen ed classes left to take at a JuCo even if an opportunity to play baseball there exists. I am curious to know if any high stats kids with two or three semesters' credit from high school are able to play JuCo ball.

One other thought:

The honors colleges at non-elite schools may be an option for some athletes who have a high academic profile.

Daddyo,

Okay, gotcha.  Thanks for clarifying.  Yes, unfortunetly I think he's missed the D1 & Ivy boat, but that it fine.  He's got options to academically elite D3 schools as you described them, and an opportunity to play D3 baseball.  That is nothing to sneeze at, and frankly an opportunity that not many people get.  Considering the limited exposure your son demonstrated in front of college coaches, I'd say he got more than his fair share of attention if multiple coaches supported him.   College baseball at any level is difficult, and a huge commitment.  If this is something your son really wants then he needs to really start thinking hard about it.  If you've spent any time on HSBBWeb you know the devil is in the details and everybody's situation is somewhat unique.  Ask questions.

As he is weighing his options, I'd compare the specific major at each school your son is considering, the baseball program and any academic money of financial aid that is being offered.  Everybody has their own measuring stick for these three areas.  If you need help, I know the board can provide their two cents. 

As always, JMO.

Not much to add here, but walk-ons do sometimes, if rarely make it.    Had a nephew who was a recruited walk-on at a low ranked midwestern D1 and he was cut. Still at the school cause he loves it.  ON the other hand,  son's HS teammate was a recruited as a walk-on to a UC, he too was cut.  Played club ball for a year and is now at a JC.   But on the flip side, my son's travel team teammate  was a recruited walked on at Big 10 school,  played his tail off in fall ball, absolutely raked during  the fall world series, and from what I gather he's likely to be starting.   Opened some eyes.   So it can happen.  Risky proposition, no doubt, though.    

On the other hand,  at some D3's, including some high academic D3,  some very fine baseball is being played.  A fella could do a lot worse. 

When my son was a junior in HS, the starting catcher received an offer and committed to a high academic small liberal arts D3 during the spring of his senior year.  It can happen. The cards shuffle for D3 just like D1 (school thought they had a commit, now a spot is open) - just a little later.

You've gotten some excellent advice - it's really too late for D1 recruiting unless a school has a unique situation arise.  I'm curious, what do you see as his primary position?  If you mentioned that earlier and I missed it, I apologize.  The only other option you might consider is a post graduate prep school year.  That gets him another whole year to both mature athletically and have another shot at recruiting.  There are several elite preps on the east coast (that's my area of knowledge, there may be others across the country) that are more than able to challenge your son academically and offer baseball.  I'd warn you though that their application deadlines either have recently passed or are about to do so on 2/1, so time is running short.

In looking at your sons's athletic history and clear enjoyment and success at playing multiple sports, I wonder if choosing a school which has club sports in his sports may provide the athletics he needs.

Or were you looking to leverage baseball to get into a school he wouldn't otherwise be admitted?

I know that the Ivies generally do not reach the NCAA roster limit and kids walk on (get through admissions on their own) frequently. If your son is a late bloomer whose baseball skills add to the team, once he gets admitted, the coach will love to have him. 

Thanks for all the responses here and assistance. I'll try to address as much of the feedback as a I can.

He wants to play an NCAA sport and get that experience. In the end he knows he needs to pick a school where he would be happy if he broke his leg on the first day of classes. He'd choose a great fit/school over a less good fit where he could play an NCAA sport. I guess he wants the best of both worlds, and as a 18 year old this is the time to have these dreams. 

He didn't apply at any of the Ivy League schools, but did apply to the UC's, Stanford, Rice , Vandy,  but outside of the mid level UC's these are schools are stretches for anyone, and all these baseball programs seem out of his reach and have not had any personal emails or calls to him. 

He's got positive feedback on film last summer from some other schools that may have been a fit, but they all wanted to see him in person. The cynic in me just thought it was a money making endeavor and it wasn't viable to send him to each schools camp that said he looked good on film. A handful did offer walk on spots, and a few of those he applied to and might end up being a fit. In hindsight it might have made sense to have him do the showcase thing, but he did have D3 offers at this point and he wasn't the level that he would have scholarship at the D1 level. Since the baseball experts we trust are saying he is a now viable prospect I'd fly him from Sacramento to Florida  this weekend to get him seen if there was a showcase that would get him seen. 

The D1 schools looked at him as a position player, he's versatile, he can run, and can hit. The D3 schools seemed much more open to him doing both. He really doesn't have a preference. His pitching coach said he's not that far off from being a viable D1 pitching prospect.

He's content with his D3 choices and they are beyond safety's at this point since they want him and he's been admitted (or received a likely letter) but he's still considering looking at D1 school that might be a better fit with everything rolled in, merit $, major, athletic $, larger college experience etc...

I did appreciate the feedback about those specific situations where athletes were recruited in the spring of their senior year. 

I'd gone though this with my daughter who plays D1 soccer. She was initially offered a walk on spot at on a D1 program with no guarantee. In June she had a school come in that she felt was better fit academically and was able to guarantee her a roster spot. She had not applied to the school prior to this. I wasn't sure if baseball had these situations as frequently.

I know many people feel offended about the US News ranking...I'm sorry.  My son came up with a massive list of schools that he was interested in and ended up applying to more schools than his mother or I did combined. I felt it was more important to help him focus his list as opposed to broadening it. Obviously the Liberal Arts Colleges he applied to don't fit in this list, but in expanding out his current choices the "Top 50" just makes it a little easier give the board an idea of schools that he is interested in.

Daddyo,

As others have pointed out, it could be a possibility that your son gets picked up his senior year after a D1 committed recruit decommits or fails to get admitted.   It does happen and nearly happened to my son his junior year with an SEC school.  However, the big difference is the SEC school had seen my son play a dozen times over the spring and summer…they knew who he was and what he was capable of.   Your senior son is an unknown quantity to a lot of these D1 schools in the middle of January 2016.  His exposure level was not high for his baseball talent, but the academic D3s were drawn to his ACT score and athleticism.   It is going to be a long, long shot if he is going to find a D1 school, and it is going to take considerable effort starting right now.  The clock is ticking.

From my baseball viewpoint, you’ve got nothing to lose in approaching these D1 schools.  I say go for it.  You are playing with house money.   But there is something I want you to think about.  As you are looking & comparing all these D1/D3 schools…. where/when do you see your son cracking that starting lineup or getting some playing time?  I really want your son to be honest with himself.  Again, he’s an unknown and he’s competing against known recruits, last years starters, existing rostered players and possibly JUCO transfers.  Also give some thought to summer college baseball exposure.   This is where D3 players can (and do) compete with D1 players and can get exposure to the next level if he is thinking about that.  The college coach will be instrumental in placing him with a summer college team whether it is D1 or D3.  

From my academic viewpoint, I don’t know enough about what your son wants to study and what schools may be a best fit.  Heck, it took my son, wife and I about 20 recruiting months to figure out our best fit.  Some kids know what they want to study and get right to it.  Others don’t know what they want to study, and try to figure it out while in college.  So, depending on which kind of kid you’ve got I’d gravitate toward the one that best fits him.  In my son’s case he wanted as deep and as wide of a reputable engineering school as he could find.  He knew he wanted to study engineering but didn’t exactly know which discipline.  You son has an extremely good ACT score, and it possible he could use that for an academic scholarship to one of these D1s if they like what they see, and they have an opening.  Elite D3s tend to be more need-based financial aid (household income based) while offering very few merit based awards (everyone is pretty smart).  

Not to worry, the US News and World Report is one of many lists that has at best a little meaning but is by no means the end all be all.  Use it if it works for you.  But more importantly understand where your son fits academically and athletically in the grand scheme of things.   Your list trumps the US News and World report list every time.

As always, this is just my opinion based on what you’ve shared.

Does your son want to pound his chest and say he was on a D1? Or is getting on the field more important? Players should go where they are loved not where there's just some interest. When there's just interest chances are there's a recruit ahead of him at his position (maybe two) who are getting love. Be a player not an insurance policy for the coach.

At this point if he had to decide he'd go with the one that loves him, but since he's still dating and not engaged or married, he's still looking for other suitors that might fall in love with him. 

Your son sounds like a lot of  kids that straddle the D1/D3 threshold.  I am not sure what position he plays primarily or what kind of hitter he is against elite pitching or if he even knows, but it sounds like his 85 off the mound is the real spark for the inquiry. While the exit velo. sounds pretty good, based on my observations, there is a LOT more that goes into being projected as a successful hitter at the D1 level than exit velo; I know a multitude of kids who can hit elite high-level pitching 420 feet but cannot help a D1 program defensively or on the bases who are scrambling to find places to play.  Hitters have to help a D1 team defensively at that level or they get replaced very quickly.  I know for a fact that there are 2016 players out there right now with the size: 6-0 - 200 lb. plus; speed: sub 6.8's; arm strength: 85+ velocity from OF, IF and mound and exit velos in the 90s to play D1, with only JUCO options, having nothing to do with grades or test scores; so there is a lot more to it as a position player than the numbers, which is why the D1 guys generally have to see a position player a who straddles the line a lot before they are convinced.

 As far as pitching goes, based on what I have seen, unless right-handed pitchers in their rising senior summer throw consistently in the 85-88 range for multiple innings, show a feel for pitching, with good breaking stuff, it is unusual to draw a D1's attention, even at the lower levels; couple that with the fact that D1 classes at all levels are full for 2016 class and it's hard to imagine being able to generate enough interest that quickly.  In my experience there are exceptions, but those are in the cases where a pitcher at the 85 range shows unquestionable projectability and upside from his body type and arm motion - say a very young 6-3 and still thin at 170 lbs or so with lots of whip in the arm and projectable mechanics.  

All of that to say, speaking from my own personal experience and that of other families I know who were not as fortunate as ours, if your son is lucky enough to be able to find: (1) a program(s) willing to go to bat for him with admissions; (2) at an elite academic institution(s), (3) that he likes; and (4) any coach who truly loves him, he is very, very lucky.  Several of my very talented former players would do back flips for those opportunities.  My 2016 was lucky enough to find an elite Top 10 academic school that fit athletically and will be thrilled to hopefully get the chance to take the field in a D3 college baseball game, as any kid of 18 years old who loves the game ought to be.  There are countless kids out there right now wishing they had opportunities to play - most of whom will have sadly played their last game.  Savor the opportunity your son has earned, take the best one, and enjoy it as much as possible because it is just not that easy to get to where your family has gotten.

Of course, that's just my two cents

All good stuff, thanks for the input.

6thatturnedouttobe9 posted:

Your son sounds like a lot of  kids that straddle the D1/D3 threshold.  ; so there is a lot more to it as a position player than the numbers, which is why the D1 guys generally have to see a position player a who straddles the line a lot before they are convinced."

Very true 6... tobe9  For those players, once one D1 shows interest, others may follow. Sort of like it's easier to get a job if you already have one. Tough enough to get an offer let alone waiting for the D1. How many of our sons have heard the RCs say, "what other schools are looking at you?" Your answer can determine how "convinced" they are.

6thatturnedouttobe9 posted:

Your son sounds like a lot of  kids that straddle the D1/D3 threshold.  I am not sure what position he plays primarily or what kind of hitter he is against elite pitching or if he even knows, but it sounds like his 85 off the mound is the real spark for the inquiry. While the exit velo. sounds pretty good, based on my observations, there is a LOT more that goes into being projected as a successful hitter at the D1 level than exit velo; I know a multitude of kids who can hit elite high-level pitching 420 feet but cannot help a D1 program defensively or on the bases who are scrambling to find places to play.  Hitters have to help a D1 team defensively at that level or they get replaced very quickly.  I know for a fact that there are 2016 players out there right now with the size: 6-0 - 200 lb. plus; speed: sub 6.8's; arm strength: 85+ velocity from OF, IF and mound and exit velos in the 90s to play D1, with only JUCO options, having nothing to do with grades or test scores; so there is a lot more to it as a position player than the numbers, which is why the D1 guys generally have to see a position player a who straddles the line a lot before they are convinced........."

 

Good context...  Sent you a PM

I got a kick out of the OPs post.  My son had identical numbers to the OPs son and turned down an Ivy to attend a highest academic D3 where he thought he'd get everyone out, be a two way player, and a four time All-America.  Well, he couldn't get anyone out until he was a Junior throwing high 80's.  The All-America finally came but it was a long hard road!  All turned out great but it was super hard and he never regretted the high academic D3 over the Ivy.  Be careful what you wish for.  It looks easy when your a senior in High School but its much harder where the rubber meets the road!

One more thing for the OP.  Each team has at least 25 players but only 9 play and some of those nine are failing.  That means the vast majority  of college baseball players leave the sport having failed, and are, by and large, unhappy about it.  Pick the place where you are going to succeed......in the classroom.