Transfer Travails

Just another example of the corruption of the college game. Sad.

I have some mixed feelings about this transfer business. I look at it the same as if it were a job, if you are not happy there, you don't care for your boss, your fellow employees, your pay, your location, you need to make a change.


I don't see how transfering hurts the APR. Someone explain that to me.

A young man of 17,18 has no idea what his experience will be like until he gets there. And how about coaches transfering, I think that is part of the picture as well. How about a bit more than 11.7?

The perentages are not that high when you consider how any schools there are and how many players. It just doesn't work out sometimes., for many reasons.

My understanding is, most transfers do so because they go away and meet other players at summer leagues and they are influenced by their experiences and friendships. I think that good coaches who have done their job at recruiting don't intentionally take players from other programs. Players should have the right to transfer, because it might make a bg impact in their future as well.
TPM

quote:

I look at it the same as if it were a job, if you are not happy there, you don't care for your boss, your fellow employees, your pay, your location, you need to make a change.

An honest and direct opinion on your part. Since it is just a job, why not treat it like any other job, and establish job-finder databases that allow the greatest choices for both employee and employer? A resume could be established by the potential employee, with his high school BA/RBI/HR, GPA, SAT, PG statistics, along with recommendations from coaches. He could also establish his own filters (e.g. D1/D2/D3, position limiter, etc.). The employer would list its open positions and minimum requirements, as well as salary levels. All agreements would either be binding for an agreed period of time or, alternatively, at- will employment. Of course, any breach of contract would be subject to legal proceedings.

Glider

what orbit are you in?

wow

TRhit,

I've been wondering that since I recently started reading this site - one that is supposed to be dedicated to the benefit of high school players.

Read the link that Dibble provided. Then read Tiger Paw's response... then my last response. I think I was originally on planet Earth, before I started on this strange journey - now I have landed on a different planet. I met you there. So now we are here together. Just read the article and make your comments.

yikes, '05 winding down and TR & I are on the same planet again


glider, well . . um (gulp) good luck - and (sigh) happy new year


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Honestly I don't see how transferring can hurt the game of college baseball. I mean though thats being unloyal to your coach it can make a good story. Look at Micah Owings last year, at Georgia Tech he didn't make a run at the College World Series. He transfers to Tulane, makes a dynamic duo with Bogesvic(sp?) and with the help of the rest of Tulane they make a run at the College World Series. He even got drafted high and is a top prospect of the Diamondbacks. The only problem with transferring would be the let down of the coach. JMO

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Glider...

Gonna swim against the stream here with you for a minute...

While I may not always agree with your points and am sure that your viewpoint seriously challenges conventional thinking...

I for one...

- Fully believe that your heart is in the right place...

- Appreciate the rational manner in which you have presented your ideas and your case...

- Really value your thinking outside the box...

- Appreciate a fresh and unusual viewpoint..

- and fully expect you to be labeled as a lunatic for that thinking...

Keep it up! We can always use a fresh perspective...

Completely agree Observer!

Other posters have come on this board with radical thoughts, but acted like jerks...Glider just calmly states his case and takes his lumps...but like the Engergizer Bunny, he keeps going-and-going.

Even though I don't agree with much of it, I may be alone on this, but I really look forward to his posts.

Bee,

We finally agree on something...Happy New Year to you.

I don't know if my son would technically be considered a "transfer" or not. He, as a HS senior, had signed a LOI with one JUCO and shortly before his freshman year began, ended up requesting a release and signing a LOI with another school. He did so for a couple of reasons.

I can tell you from our experience, that this is a traumatic event in a kid's life. It is a decision that can be filled with guilt (for the coach and the players he feels he's letting down) and fear (am I doing the right thing).

The reasons that a kid decides to transfer are numerous. Just as the reasons for signing with a particular school are very individual, the reasons for leaving are as well.

I understand that a program can be hurt in several ways by a player leaving. I can also understand that a program and players can be hurt by a coach deciding to leave. I can only respect a coach that makes it possible for a player to make a change that he and parents feel like he needs to make. For a player to stay where he doesn't want to be (due to whatever reason) can never be a win/win. Changes happen in life and there's no reason to make things more difficult for anyone. Whether that's the coach or the player.

Glider,

It was novel and interesting to consider until you got to that litigation part. You think the NCAA is a mess, just let the lawyers get into the process....and I'm an attorney. Consider for a moment we have a former United States Attorney General defending Sadaam Hussein. How weird is that.

lafmom-I have a feeling you have tempered your remarks somewhat . Rest assured you are not alone on this one.

Hokieone,

You may not have read any of my previous posts. I think the entire recuitment thing is a disaster, at all levels. However, I was just following on with Tiger Paw's post. If most of the folks on this site think it should be as serious as they think it is, then why not just take it to it's logical conclusion? At least a job-database model would allow some sunlight to shine on the whole mess.

quote:

by glider: why not treat it like any other job, and A resume could be established by the potential employee, with his high school BA/RBI/HR, GPA, SAT, PG statistics, along with recommendations from coaches. He could also establish his own filters (e.g. D1/D2/D3, position limiter, etc.). The employer would list its open positions and minimum requirements, as well as salary levels. All agreements would either be binding for an agreed period of time or, alternatively, at- will employment

glider, excellent thoughts, I agree it will work, as do others -
but WE may be a little late here (darn)


btw, I found all this info in the HSBBWEB recruiting info section


there already ARE comprehensive databases/reumes maintained by scouting services such as by PG, TeamOne, College Select, etc,

additional "resumes" also already ARE maintained on many dozens of recruiting web-sites

employers openings already CAN be approximated by studying their program history & roster

"salary levels- ie: scholarship ammounts" already CAN be approximated from the schools tuition & fee schedule, positional needs, and hsweb recruiting info on scholly amounts

the NLI & Grant in Aid letter IS the binding agreement for the agreed time period

an at-will change (transfer) can take place with usually NO penalty

Glider,

Most on here would concede there are serious issues underlying all of this, some perhaps resolveable, some so firmly entrenched as to appear untouchable. College baseball recruiting starts off behind the 8 ball, as it's not traditionally a big revenue-producing sport for the schools (notwithstanding exceptions such as the big boys-SEC, ACC, PAC 10, etc.), and the whole 11.7 limit, not even fully funded at many D-1's, starts the process in a hole, and you have many athletes seeking few dollars. So right off the bat, it's not like football and basketball where every ride is a full ride, at least for one year. There are no limits on how many kids a coach wants to bring in, with whatever promises that get them there, which invites abuse. With less revenue generated than the big two, less funds are available for assistant coaches, recruiting, scouting trips, etc., so the playing field for "getting seen" isn't level,and tilts in favor of those that can afford to spend the money to get to the places where they can be seen. Granted, players need to have the talent to impress, but it's not as simple as "they will find you", as romatic as that may sound.

Mix into this that schollys are 1 year renewable, IMHO a travesty brought about by the NCAA which wiped away any pretense of being the athletes' advocate when they eliminated 4 year scholarships. Very respectable folks on here disagree with that, but I saw 4 years of D-1 college football from the inside, at a time when schollys were 4 year full rides, and the change to 1 year renewables was not athlete-friendly.

Add that coaches can leave a school at their whim, but the athletes are restricted, by rules and by academic circumstances. I've now had a son go through transferring and while it has worked out great for him in many ways, a lot of academic credits got left on the cutting room floor by his new school, not an insignificant consideration in all of this.

Add that baseball is , IMHO, harder on academics than both of the big two. While "official" practices in the fall are technically limited, players at all levels are doing something baseball oriented 5-6 days a week, running, lifting, throwing, etc. Springtime brings 56 games, reduced to 40 or so for D-3, but time intensive.

The result is an absolutely wonderful game, college baseball (I'd much rather watch a college game than a MLB game any day of the week), with serious issues: scholarship limitations, pitcher-threatening bats, sold by the companies that pour funds into the big programs, an unequal playing field of sorts for those trying to get to this level, anda continuing tug of war between "more games" and "education first".

The best any of us can do is enter the process with our eyes wide open, armed with as much information as we can collect, with a willingness to react as events occur, realizing changes do happen. If my sons can continue to play the game a while longer, at a level beyond high school, while getting their education, I'll take that as a blessing. The road is bumpy, but at least there's a road.

Bee and hokieone-Nice posts.

The recruiting process is what it is and it isnt going to change overnight if at all

It is like interviewing for a job-- if it is offered you do not HAVE to take the position just because it was offered to you. The same with recruiting--just because a college offers something the player need not take it--it is his choice.

As noted above one has to go into the process with their eyes wide open and having done due dilgence regarding research. Our showcase seminar covers the means and methods of all three NCAA Divisions and we have an extensive Q&A period as part of the seminar. We now even cover the aspect of videos and how they can be utilized in the proper fashion.

The bottom line is that the process is what it is so why not make the best of it. I have been involved with NCAA situations a number of times and it is not easy to win any argument with them much less get to speak to the right person.

Glider--I for one do not see ther process being as bad as you do but then again I am not an idealist--I am too old for that sort of thinking mainly because I have never seen it work

Happy New Year to all

quote:

by hokie1: The best any of us can do is enter the process with our eyes wide open, armed with as much information as we can collect, with a willingness to react as events occur, realizing changes do happen. If my sons can continue to play the game a while longer, at a level beyond high school, while getting their education, I'll take that as a blessing. The road is bumpy, but at least there's a road

that's a great summary!
the only thing you could be add is -

"I rest my case"

quote:

Originally posted by Glider:

quote:

I look at it the same as if it were a job, if you are not happy there, you don't care for your boss, your fellow employees, your pay, your location, you need to make a change.

An honest and direct opinion on your part. Since it is just a job, why not treat it like any other job, and establish job-finder databases that allow the greatest choices for both employee and employer? A resume could be established by the potential employee, with his high school BA/RBI/HR, GPA, SAT, PG statistics, along with recommendations from coaches. He could also establish his own filters (e.g. D1/D2/D3, position limiter, etc.). The employer would list its open positions and minimum requirements, as well as salary levels. All agreements would either be binding for an agreed period of time or, alternatively, at- will employment. Of course, any breach of contract would be subject to legal proceedings.

I do beleive that such a situation exists, called the NCAA Clearinghouse. I also beleive many coaches who are paid to recruit have huge databases. Do remember though, those coaches are in control more than the player, they can dictate what type of player they want,how many, etc., whereas the player needs to zero in and find the best program for him, not the one he WANTS to attend.

I also believe that you can find information on players through organizatons such as Perfect Game, Team One.
I also beleive HokieOne's post was excellent!

I apreciate your thinking outside of the box, but I also think lots of your ideas originate from the "inside". Good posts though and it's nice to have a thread of varing opinions with no arguments!
JMO.

Sons friend was over for dinner the other night, he played ball in HS. He is attending a state school, carries the same amount of credits that son has, and told us in no way could he ever handle what son was doing.

I imagine that is why the system is designed the way it is. The coaches have many months to study and evaluate players while in HS or JUCO's to determine if that player is right for teh "job". And this is especially true in the bigger programs. If all players came in the fall and try out, how is the coach to determine who is right for the program. By watching who plays best on the field for a few weeks? I don't think so.
Try to explain that to the fans, the alumni that pay lots of money to support those programs. I don't think so. Tell that to the coaches who gain revenues for their programs by attending national championship games, conference games, win or lose.

I will now bow out of this particular conversation (about recruitment issues). It has been fun, and I appreciate all of your comments - it was kept at a civil level.

My parting sentiments are that I feel sorry for the players, their parents and the coaches. My feeling is that things will only become more intense, and extreme things like recuitment of grammar school kids will occur (as it does now in basketball). Having said this, I am very respectful of how hard you parents (and your sons) are working at it.

Happy New Year to you all.

Glider