Why is it that some think travel ball is not as fun as rec ball or LL? I think it's all fun for the kids...if it's what they want to do.
This discussion reminds me of when 2019Son joined his 14U travel team. We're in a full-blown baseball hotbed (Southern California) and I was having a conversation with a couple of the dads, and I mentioned that my son hadn't really played travel ball before 12U -- I said that he had played two tournaments the summer before his 12U year started in September. They were dumbfounded, just completely incredulous -- their kids had started travel ball in 6U or 7U and continued through the years, playing weekend tournaments all over Southern California and beyond (and their boys had played rec ball too). Then one of them said to me "well, he caught up."
To each his own -- I've got no problem with however people want to spend their time and money -- but I don't think anyone needs to do 6U or 7U or 8U travel ball. There comes a point when the higher level of competition can be really beneficial. If you want to say that is 10U or 11U, I won't argue -- 2019Son did have to work hard to "catch up" at 12U. And certainly when the kid is getting ready for high school (13U and 14U) I think it is very, very beneficial.
CaCO, a couple of years ago I ran into the same problem with my younger son. He was 7 playing "Farm" in rec ball (kid pitch until 4 balls, then coach comes in to pitch to finish the at bat) and I saw him lob the ball to first base after he fielded a grounder. I asked him why he was lobbing it, and he said in a matter-of-fact way "because Billy [the first baseman] can't catch" -- and he was right!! My short-term solution was just to have him "play up" in rec ball -- have him play "Minors" in 2nd grade -- rather than move him to travel ball. But, again, to each his own.
My oldest started travel at 13U, which seemed to be a good time to start. His rec program had quality players and coaches for the most part, so moving to travel earlier than that didn't seem necessary.
Now with his younger brother, it seems like I am going to have to make that move at 11U. The talent level, both in players and coaches has eroded significantly over the past few years.
You see, for the past year in rec ball my son has been the best player on his teams. Hands down. For me - that's not a good thing at this age level.
I know that the typical travel ball argument parents make is "my kid is too good for rec ball." Usually it's just chest puffing. In my son's case, he's the best player - but I don't really think he is good enough to be a "best player". Not sure if that makes sense. He's not a bad player at all. Certainly above average. The reason he looks "good" is because he is surrounded by players that just aren't all that talented.
I think he would develop better - and certainly will have more fun if he is surrounded by players that are at least as good as, if not better than him. At least here, those players have left the rec league. The average leagues in the area are half of the size they were when my oldest was playing in them. That's a lot of talented players and coaches who are gone.
There are something like 200 teams that play in the local travel league. I could count to be sure, but I'm almost certain that's more than the combined total of rec teams in all the programs in this area.
I'm crossing my fingers that I can find a team that has good coaching, but isn't into traveling all over the place every weekend. I'd rather save that insanity for high school summers.
hshuler posted:Why is it that some think travel ball is not as fun as rec ball or LL? I think it's all fun for the kids...if it's what they want to do.
They both have their perks, TB is just better baseball then regular season LL, without a doubt, or at least it should be. LL, i dont know, they're is something special about it, especially when its tournament time, the whole community is out rooting for the team, they treat them like royalty, its fun and the kids love it. During tournament time, its just as good as TB, like I said, around here every AS tournament team is made up of TB players. I like both, son likes both, thats why we do both.
NTGson wouldn't be a ballplayer at all if not for rec ball. T-ball, when the glove was a big as he was and he was always the pitcher because he could field a grounder and make a throw to 1st, then to the outfield when his throws couldn't be handled by the 1st baseman. But all the kids got better as they progressed through Coach-pitch and some blossomed during that first year of kid-pitch. Some didn't, but they played on. It was at the kid pitch level that the first invitations came to NTGson to join this travel team or that. He threw strikes. His Mom and I held off until 9Us and decided that he could play TB but only if the head coach was not a dad and he could still play rec. That worked and we never traveled more than an hour. At the same time, our rec league passed a rule that any rec player who also played travel could not pitch more than two innings in any game. He continued to play rec and TB until the 11U season ended. At that time his 12U and 13U travel schedule took too much time and the level of play in the rec league was visibly and undeniably at a much lower level. The games weren't fun, they were laughable in most instances. In our area PONY is the dominant sanctioning body and 13-14Us played (at that time, I don't know if it's been changed) on a 54-80 field. NTGson had been playing 80% of the time at 60-90 from 12 on other than the Ripken, Cooperstown and other 'national' tournaments.
We missed the "neighborhood" feel of rec ball during those 12-14U years, but built relationships with folks surrounding his TB teams. It worked out for NTGson, he has been a 4 year varsity starter in an extremely competitive district and he's seen more losses in his first 3 years of HS ball than in all the TB years combined. But he'll play for his dream D-1 school next year and feels a kinship with every teammate he's ever had, from T-Ball in rec, to the highest level TB and HS. His 13U TB team's roster of 13 has 12 of its players going on to play college ball, 10 of them D-1. His HS team has two other young men going on to college, both at very competitive D-3 schools.
His Mom and I will occasionally make our way over to the rec league fields close to our home and catch a game or two, partly for the joy of watching kids play baseball and partly to relive the magic memories of kids giggling and laughing at themselves and their friends on the ballfield and after the games: when winning was the goal but the joy of the game was so much more tied to newly-acquired skills than to the scoreboard and standings.
2019Dad posted:CaCO, a couple of years ago I ran into the same problem with my younger son. He was 7 playing "Farm" in rec ball (kid pitch until 4 balls, then coach comes in to pitch to finish the at bat) and I saw him lob the ball to first base after he fielded a grounder. I asked him why he was lobbing it, and he said in a matter-of-fact way "because Billy [the first baseman] can't catch" -- and he was right!! My short-term solution was just to have him "play up" in rec ball -- have him play "Minors" in 2nd grade -- rather than move him to travel ball. But, again, to each his own.
2019, I saw the problem in 7u rec. His entire 7u Allstar team formed a local travel team for 8u, I declined. I had him play up to 9u rec, same problem. When it was time for 9u ball I had him play rec AND TB. At 10u I planned to do the same thing but he got one of those dad coaches that is passionate about what he is saying while everything he is saying is REALLY wrong. He would say things like okay, after a strike out I want the catcher to throw the ball to SS. My son said "But coach, there is a kid on first", coach said "SO?" My son just shut up.
My son's final straw was when the coach said "When there is a kid on second I need you (the SS) to run around him in circles, clapping, until the pitch is thrown, that way he won't get far off the base. To my son's credit he did what the coach told him to do, while being very RED every time he did it...he drew the line at putting a sticker on his helmet when he got a hit, and he announced "no more rec", lol!
I see no point in TB until it is kid pitch, after that, to each their own.
hshuler posted:Why is it that some think travel ball is not as fun as rec ball or LL? I think it's all fun for the kids...if it's what they want to do.
Every level of baseball is fun. Otherwise a kid (or adult) shouldn't be playing. Some levels just require more of a commitment to excellence. I remember hitting gap line drives and balls directly over their head to my son and a teammate until they dropped from exhaustion. But they were having fun. David Ortiz said he's done playing after this year because the off season commitment to prepare became too much work and stopped being fun. It's not because he's losing his game.
CaCO3Girl posted:2019Dad posted:CaCO, a couple of years ago I ran into the same problem with my younger son. He was 7 playing "Farm" in rec ball (kid pitch until 4 balls, then coach comes in to pitch to finish the at bat) and I saw him lob the ball to first base after he fielded a grounder. I asked him why he was lobbing it, and he said in a matter-of-fact way "because Billy [the first baseman] can't catch" -- and he was right!! My short-term solution was just to have him "play up" in rec ball -- have him play "Minors" in 2nd grade -- rather than move him to travel ball. But, again, to each his own.
2019, I saw the problem in 7u rec. His entire 7u Allstar team formed a local travel team for 8u, I declined. I had him play up to 9u rec, same problem. When it was time for 9u ball I had him play rec AND TB. At 10u I planned to do the same thing but he got one of those dad coaches that is passionate about what he is saying while everything he is saying is REALLY wrong. He would say things like okay, after a strike out I want the catcher to throw the ball to SS. My son said "But coach, there is a kid on first", coach said "SO?" My son just shut up.
My son's final straw was when the coach said "When there is a kid on second I need you (the SS) to run around him in circles, clapping, until the pitch is thrown, that way he won't get far off the base. To my son's credit he did what the coach told him to do, while being very RED every time he did it...he drew the line at putting a sticker on his helmet when he got a hit, and he announced "no more rec", lol!
I see no point in TB until it is kid pitch, after that, to each their own.
LoL @ run around in circles, clapping, until the pitch is thrown - hilarious!
"Travel" needs to be defined. When my son was nine and ten it was the Ripken all star team playing in other local tournaments after all stars. At eleven and twelve it was a roster of potential LL all stars from our league (we moved) playing in a Sunday DH AA league concurrently with the LL season. We never played more than an hour from home. We never played more than two games per day (never back to back).
This is much different than traveling hundreds of miles around a region (or two hours to go forty miles in LA), spending a lot of money to play in tournaments and possibly playing six or seven games in two days.
To each their own. But I don't see the value of the second scenario for preteens. We were fortunate when we started travel full time at 13u the local USSSA organization and a wood bat organization were only forty miles away. We did one overnight per year for fun. I was curious to see how the cliques would break out over the weekend. The kids traveled as one pack everywhere they went for three days.17/18u involved some serious travel up and down the coast.
It's been 5-6 years since my son played travel ball (11U-17U). From the threads I read here it seems travel ball has changed significantly and is still thriving. I will admit to sort of being of the loop in regards to travel ball once my son started playing at the college level.
The travel team my son played for was not about "showcasing" or winning tournaments. It was formed to prepare the players for HS ball - nothing more, nothing less. It was more a local travel team playing local doubleheaders/3-ways against other local travel teams and one tournament a month. We felt the local LL just didn't have the player talent to ensure the kids would be successful at the HS level. We do live in a rural county (pop 24,000) with an average of 300-400 kids participating in local LL (all levels and divisions). To that end it served its purpose with most of the players making the cut for their respective HS teams.
Along the way we did encounter well financed clubs whose sole purpose was not just preparing them for HS, but outright winning regional and national championships with hope of being "seen" or noticed. As my son transitioned to the "big" field is about the time I started hearing about "showcases" to get "noticed" by the college coaches, pro scouts. Unfortunately, we just didn't have the funds to go that route.
I thought some parents were sort of nuts to be paying $3,000-$5,000 a year to have their son on some of the bigger, well known programs. (We did a lot of fund raising to minimize the cost to parents). At the tournaments we did participate in I never noticed many college scouts (if any) - even during the summer.
In fact, the first time I noticed any college or pro scouts was when my son was playing American Legion. They were there to see his teammate who at the time was throwing 93-94 mph (as a 17 year old).
Yes, I'd say travel ball is doing pretty good. Good enough that in some areas American Legion is "dying".
So now it seems you play rec ball/LL to see if you like the game, then go to a travel team to refine your skills, and then at the HS level, you "showcase" your skills to the college coaches in the attempt to secure a scholarship or if you have the tools maybe go pro.
Yes they're are many different types of TB teams and scenarios. We are all local, two different middle schools who will all go to same HS. Everyone knows everyone, we all hang out outside of baseball. Only travel about an hour (rarely) as we host a lot of home games, we do Ripken every year which is an hour and a half. Only play a couple tournaments a year, same kids for last 4 years, never have tryouts or new additions. Coaches philosophy is to prepare these kids for HS and develop the next HS state champs, I like it. Coaches arent paid, they are also rec coaches. Team cost is next to nothing, only exception is this year since we are going to cooperstown in August, that alone is about 2 years worth of dues. I think we are probably the exception when it comes to TB teams, a lot of the other local teams we play are always showing up with new faces.
And all y'all be missing church on Sunday. Aren't cha? Lol.
I'll preach to you here if you try to avoid me in church. Sly grin.
Here is one small town perspective. Where I am everybody through 15u plays in the rec league. However, a couple of coaches pulled together a team at 8u and they kept them together through the league their entire youth careers. This team made the All-Star team wholesale every year and was successful, reaching the Cal Ripken World Series as 12's. The only additions from the league was the yearly two kids who sat the bench for all-stars.
They also played travel ball as a team during the year. They didn't really play high competitive travel, but enough to at least see something better than they saw from rec. My son moved into town during the eighth grade straight from several seasons of USSSA major ball and joined the team.
That team is now completely on varsity - every single player. Not a single player from that age group (which actually covers this years sophomores and juniors) has come from out of the league without playing on that team with the exception of one player who has speed and is used only as a courtesy runner. Seven of the starting nine from the travel team are varsity starters (five sophs and two juniors).
The high school head coach here, who is a friend of mine, does nothing over the summer baseball-wise and hates travel ball - thinks it's a waste of time. So, it isn't a matter of him favoring the travel ball kids. The only explanation I have for why no kids outside of the travel team have been able to surpass those who have been on it since 8u is the experience of travel ball.
I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
Teaching Elder posted:And all y'all be missing church on Sunday. Aren't cha? Lol.
I'll preach to you here if you try to avoid me in church. Sly grin.
Unless it was a big tournament or the team had an away doubleheader, we were always there Sunday morning. We'd just go to the early service. Besides, our Pastor is an Orioles fan.
lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
In the Denver area, rec ball is limited. There is one very small LL and nothing else. Most towns in the metro area have organizations that have tryouts and put together teams. They can be very large. They then, at any given age group, may have many teams all entered with USSSA as major down to A. The entire metro area has a league and these teams travel to play each other. The major, AAA, and a lot of the AA teams will play tournaments as well on the weekends. Rarely do the A teams play any tournaments. However, because the league is registered and the teams are registered and travel, they are all in the category of "travel ball." The A teams and many of the AA, however, are very poor quality baseball.
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
For beginners, the same fundamentals that a rec ball coach would only with a LOT more practice time. Whereas most rec teams get in few practices, your better travel teams might have 4 or 5 practices a week. However, YMMV - a lot.
roothog66 posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
For beginners, the same fundamentals that a rec ball coach would only with a LOT more practice time. Whereas most rec teams get in few practices, your better travel teams might have 4 or 5 practices a week. However, YMMV - a lot.
I guess we could hash the travel vs rec thing over again, but for me it boils down to one thing...
If you are playing rec ball, you are (in most leagues anyway) at the mercy of whatever team you get drafted onto. The coaching may be great, it may be terrible. Whichever it is though - you are stuck with it.
With travel ball, you have the opportunity to select who will be your coach. If you don't think it's a good fit - you have the opportunity to keep shopping. If you do your due diligence, there shouldn't be an issue of having poor coaching.
There's no guarantee that you will have a better coach just by the mere virtue of playing travel ball. You just have more control over who the coach will be. Ultimately, if you have a poor travel coach - that's your fault. If you have a poor rec coach - well, there's always next season.
johnnysako posted:2020dad posted:Johnny, if you are a God given talent like Domingo then yes it doesn't matter where you play. If you absolutely suck then it doesn't matter where you play. But for the vast majority of kids who fall somewhere between I absolutely think it matters. Travel ball kids have a huge opportunity to get better through so many more reps, way more game experience, playing against better competition and just plain being able to see what's out there. I do not believe you can improve significantly playing rec ball.
I agree 100%. But why cant you do both, thats not a question. If its an option, then do it. I get that in some areas maybe rec is poorly ran and looked down upon, if so thats a shame, around here its a lot of fun and the HS coaches dont look down on you for it either.
Then we really do agree 100%. My son plays on a rec team for league play during the week. It is a group of kids he will go to high school with. A great opportunity for him to make some friends. And great for those kids too. He can't normally pitch a lot of innings but he usually throws three on Wednesday games and uses it like a side. Doesn't have to throw 100% to get outs. He has left his team with the lead every time he has pitched. And we preserved three of those for whT I believe are our only three wins. This weekend we are off so he will be able to pitch again tonight along with another kid who is a decent pitcher. So should get another win tonight. Without him... Let's just say wins would be tough to come by. So fun for him. He gets to be the hero rather than scratching and clawing just to make next years team. And they get some wins and have some fun they wouldn't otherwise have. He works on pitches and locating in a way he could not dare do on a weekend. It really is a win win situation. I am glad he is doing it.
My oldest played both 13u rec and 15u travel at the same time (lots of friends in the rec league). He caught for the rec league and played multiple positions for the travel team. The pitchers were still working on distance on the 60/90 in the rec league, which taken with the right attitude, made catching a lot more work. Where else do you get to work on blocking 50 balls in the dirt every game with live pitching. I always thought that year greatly attributed to the skill my son developed behind the plate.
roothog66 posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
For beginners, the same fundamentals that a rec ball coach would only with a LOT more practice time. Whereas most rec teams get in few practices, your better travel teams might have 4 or 5 practices a week. However, YMMV - a lot.
In our area getting a field for travel practice was a challenge. The town, school district and JuCo required 60% of the roster to be from within the school district just to pay to use the field. The school district facilities manager was the Junior Legion coach. He did anything possible to prevent travel teams from getting on fields.
I was friends with a member of the Connie Mack board. She rented me their extra field "under the table." I made a sizable "charitable donation" to the program. One field was unused and available for my team.
It allowed us to practice Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. As to the coaching issue all four of us were former college players (two pro). We had a pitching coach, catching coach, infield coach and outfield coach. The infield coach taught little nuances I never knew.
i feel the level of competition possibly prepared my son for varsity one year sooner.
Re: rec and mercy of the team you're selected for ... I pitched this putting together the 13u team. I asked parents in the two critical 60/90 transition years leading up to high school do you want to risk having the same poor coaching half the rec teams have?
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
My son plays for a faith-based organization and they make no bones about it. Their goal, through baseball, is to help young men grow into high-character leaders on and off the field.
Now, they also teach kids how to respect the game and play it the right way. There are tons of unqualified coaches out there whose practices consist of some infield/oufield and the one kid hits, one's on deck and the rest are shagging balls.
I feel that the travel ball issue all really boils down to what the motives are. Does the player really want to play HS baseball or possibly beyond? Difficult to answer this question when they are 9, 10 or 11 year old. On my son's MS team (22 players) there is 1 non-travel ball 8th grader who has now jumped into it. At the HS level with JV & V I would say it is 100% travel ball players probably going back to 9 yo or so.
The main issue here is the sport itself. Baseball is just a different animal than say track or football. I would align it with something like golf. You could be the greatest athlete alive & if all you ever did was bang some balls at the driving range every now & then, you could not walk out to golf tryouts as a Freshman & sniff the team (unless nobody else showed up). The sport is too skill specific. Baseball is the same. You are simply too far behind the curve if you have not sharpened these skills along the way vs those who have put in the time. The dynamic actions of throwing a baseball, swinging the bat & fielding are very complex & require huge reps to present as competent at the HS years. Measured vs those who have had a travel ball experience with quality coaching & competition, those without this experience will be hard pressed to make any cut or be an impactful player. There are, of course, always exceptions, but the tool set of these exceptions would probably be top 1%. (Lorenzo Cain; Bo; Deion)
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
I can't speak for all travel ball coaches. I have known a few that didn't know how to teach game situations or how to throw a curve ball correctly. As I said my son's travel ball coach was very knowledgable and had been managing a travel team for about 12 yrs. He had an asst coach who taught my son how to catch properly (blocking, receiving, framing). Also playing with kids that are were as good or better than my son helped my son push himself to be better and contribute to the team.
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
I know there are exceptions to this rule, and I know that there are some wonderful dad coaches out there that grew up playing the game, were a student of the game, and maybe even made it pretty far in the game. However, for the most part, the typical rec ball coach has a 9-5 job totally unrelated to baseball, likely never played baseball past high school, and in some cases they didn't even do that. The only qualifications to be a rec ball coach at our local park is having a kid on the team and be willing to work for free. There is no baseball IQ quiz, there is no vetting of past experience. Typically it is a dad trying to bond with their son.
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
How to be a baseball player. How to handle failure. How to handle adversity, pressure, stress. How to enjoy the game.
I estimate conservatively 30,000 kids will be playing "travel ball" this weekend across the US. TE, does that bother you? Your posts seem to consistently look for a negative with Travel Ball. If you have something specific, let me know.
One of the best coaches around was a rec league coach who played softball for Michigan. She was the best, not only for the kids, but us volunteer coaches. She was given tons of grief from the other teams (male) coaches for her approach, which was to prepare the kids to play the game at the next level - go figure.
Bad coaching is everywhere. I don't think coaching is a good reason to pay for travel ball. If you get great coaching then it is a bonus. But let's face it most organizations if you really want coaching you have to pay extra for lessons. To me it's about the level of competition and playing with like minded kids. No BS horseplay and making circles in the dirt. Here to step up and compete. Also someday when your kid who is a borderline talent wants to play at XYZ university and your organization has fed them some great players your guy there will be able to persuade them to give your kid a chance in order to keep their gravy train rolling. And that my friend is the real reason to be in a travel organization!
CaCO3Girl posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
I know there are exceptions to this rule, and I know that there are some wonderful dad coaches out there that grew up playing the game, were a student of the game, and maybe even made it pretty far in the game. However, for the most part, the typical rec ball coach has a 9-5 job totally unrelated to baseball, likely never played baseball past high school, and in some cases they didn't even do that. The only qualifications to be a rec ball coach at our local park is having a kid on the team and be willing to work for free. There is no baseball IQ quiz, there is no vetting of past experience. Typically it is a dad trying to bond with their son.
Arent those the same qualifications for a TB coach as well? Just because you played the game doesn't mean you can teach it. Ive seen some doozies coaching TB.
johnnysako posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
I know there are exceptions to this rule, and I know that there are some wonderful dad coaches out there that grew up playing the game, were a student of the game, and maybe even made it pretty far in the game. However, for the most part, the typical rec ball coach has a 9-5 job totally unrelated to baseball, likely never played baseball past high school, and in some cases they didn't even do that. The only qualifications to be a rec ball coach at our local park is having a kid on the team and be willing to work for free. There is no baseball IQ quiz, there is no vetting of past experience. Typically it is a dad trying to bond with their son.
Arent those the same qualifications for a TB coach as well? Just because you played the game doesn't mean you can teach it. Ive seen some doozies coaching TB.
And now you are back to what level TB are you playing. A, and AA I would say yup, same as rec ball just longer, but at least there you have a choice. You can ask the guy what teams he has coached, you can go watch a game, talk to the parents in the stands, ask around....some coaches have great reps, some have really bad reps, and most are in between. But with TB there is a choice, and if you are playing most of AAA and Major level at a reputable club they likely don't have kids on the team and likely do know about baseball. And you are back to your research.
Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
My sons program was/is awesome teaching. The proper field techniques and pivot, pitching mechanics, catching mechanics, many quality reps, strong internal competition for spots in line up, baserunning keys and reads...and on and on. The boys coming out of the program who "get it" know and understand the game. The others get weeded out.
It is how you approach and prepare for the season, the game and ultimately life in general.
If my kid grew up playing at a park that had kids on first that couldn't catch, catchers that got knocked over by a pitch, and every kid that could catch a fly ball by 9u leaving to play travel ball we would have left too. These parks must be the worst parks in America. Fortunately we have a good park. Our kids play school, travel and rec. There are some kids that aren't very good yes. But it's not the norm. I think we could continue to argue good and bad points on both. Bottom line is, if your kid is happy and you are happy then you are making the right choice. If not, then make a switch! Baseball is different for different areas. Some areas all the talent is obviously in TB. In others, it seems to be spread evenly.
Not sure what others have seen, however I coached from Tball through 13U. Kids that were good then, coincidentally are the better players still today. Did they need TB to continue to develop, maybe, maybe not. It may have happened anyway. I joke on occasion with a few parents of kids on our HS team, if it wasn't for me coaching your sons at 6 and 7, they wouldn't be where they are today. Haha.
However, they need be challenged as they get older. That, then becomes the fun part.
That is when travel ball comes in.
Side note though. These teams don’t need to fill up every last stinking weekend with baseball. I actually feel guilty that my 2016 and now my 2018 never got or get a break. Especially at the younger ages, even into 15U/16U. I think these full schedules kill some of the love and passion these kids have for the game. Sadly it becomes more of a job instead of a game.
hshuler posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
My son plays for a faith-based organization and they make no bones about it. Their goal, through baseball, is to help young men grow into high-character leaders on and off the field.
Now, they also teach kids how to respect the game and play it the right way. There are tons of unqualified coaches out there whose practices consist of some infield/oufield and the one kid hits, one's on deck and the rest are shagging balls.
Yes. My son is playing for one that is specifically Christian. They have a lot of high quality guys as directors and as coaches. We are looking forward to a great year of baseball and of Christian growth.
Once again, there are many different levels of Travel Baseball.
We actually have large tournaments with quality teams. I dont know of hardly any of these teams that have a dad coaching.
Rob T posted:I guess we could hash the travel vs rec thing over again, but for me it boils down to one thing...
If you are playing rec ball, you are (in most leagues anyway) at the mercy of whatever team you get drafted onto. The coaching may be great, it may be terrible. Whichever it is though - you are stuck with it.
With travel ball, you have the opportunity to select who will be your coach. If you don't think it's a good fit - you have the opportunity to keep shopping. If you do your due diligence, there shouldn't be an issue of having poor coaching.
There's no guarantee that you will have a better coach just by the mere virtue of playing travel ball. You just have more control over who the coach will be. Ultimately, if you have a poor travel coach - that's your fault. If you have a poor rec coach - well, there's always next season.
Yes this is a good point. We left a town with a great rec ball team. They also offered a park "travel" team that played other parks in the area. We moved and the teams were terrible, coaches asked my son to bounce the ball to first base because they couldn't catch. He was told only to throw the ball down the middle pitching so the catcher didn't have to "work" and ease up, throw softer. The draft is also a funny thing around here; there is always one stacked team that completely dominates the few others around. Maybe he could have as others suggested played up, but even there many kids don't know which end of the bat to hold. The better players have already left. The state of travel and rec is very much tied to locale.
Get-em out of rec ball so that they don't get burned out.
I knew a big league'r who had all the answers. His very talented kid played rec ball with friends and ran circles around them. He was gonna introduce him to competitive ball when he got 14 or 15, or perhaps about the time he retired. However Jr. lost intrest in boring rec baseball and started golfing, swimming, skateboards, he is still a good kid he just no longer craves baseball!
I think it is good for talented Players but doing it as a pre teen is probably a waste of Money but won't really hurt unless you blow your arm out.
hshuler posted:Teaching Elder posted:lionbaseball posted:I think you have to be careful with putting all of travel ball as a panacea for weak rec ball. I've seen travel ball that was no better than rec ball.
My son was fortunate to have some very good travel ball coaches that taught him how to play the game right so that by high school he was able to integrate into the system with very little learning curve.
What do these travel coaches teach Kids? I keep hearing people say that.
My son plays for a faith-based organization and they make no bones about it. Their goal, through baseball, is to help young men grow into high-character leaders on and off the field.
Now, they also teach kids how to respect the game and play it the right way. There are tons of unqualified coaches out there whose practices consist of some infield/oufield and the one kid hits, one's on deck and the rest are shagging balls.
"There are tons of unqualified coaches out there whose practices consist of some infield/oufield and the one kid hits, one's on deck and the rest are shagging balls." -- My #1 frustration with my son's LL All Star coach's practices.
The team has been successful because the kids have talent, but it reinforces "live BP on the field" as a good practice. 1 kid hitting, everybody else standing around while he throws 25 pitches (yes 25) to each kid. Good grief Charlie Brown my son hates it too! Fortunately he's 12 and this is the last summer of that, but it's also been fun being in the community and sharing in the whole experience. I've had my share of travel frustrations too. Good, bad and ugly everywhere.