FYI, at our Valley League (Summer collegiate wooden bat league) meeting last week, we were told that a scout from the MLB Scouting Bureau that visits us a couple times each year advised that MLB scouts do not scout travel ball. Period. There may be a bird dog here or there, but since MLB scouts have duties that include not only the college summer leagues but also required reports on various minor league clubs related to the MLB trade deadline, they have no time for travel ball.
hokieone posted:FYI, at our Valley League (Summer collegiate wooden bat league) meeting last week, we were told that a scout from the MLB Scouting Bureau that visits us a couple times each year advised that MLB scouts do not scout travel ball. Period. There may be a bird dog here or there, but since MLB scouts have duties that include not only the college summer leagues but also required reports on various minor league clubs related to the MLB trade deadline, they have no time for travel ball.
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That conflicts with the numbers of MLB scouts at WWBA, Super 17's, Jupiter
and other 'travel ball' events.
and other 'travel ball' events.
hokieone posted:FYI, at our Valley League (Summer collegiate wooden bat league) meeting last week, we were told that a scout from the MLB Scouting Bureau that visits us a couple times each year advised that MLB scouts do not scout travel ball. Period. There may be a bird dog here or there, but since MLB scouts have duties that include not only the college summer leagues but also required reports on various minor league clubs related to the MLB trade deadline, they have no time for travel ball.
PG better tell all those scouts they are wasting time and their bosses don't want them there!!
Go44dad posted:hokieone posted:FYI, at our Valley League (Summer collegiate wooden bat league) meeting last week, we were told that a scout from the MLB Scouting Bureau that visits us a couple times each year advised that MLB scouts do not scout travel ball. Period. There may be a bird dog here or there, but since MLB scouts have duties that include not only the college summer leagues but also required reports on various minor league clubs related to the MLB trade deadline, they have no time for travel ball.
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This is not a 6u-12u event. This is a photo from a high school event. The topic is related to the Jr. league stuff.
RJM posted:How did I know this would turn into a travel v. rec thread stating rec ball stinks. Preteen rec ball didn't stink when my kids were preteens. It didn't matter to me my kids played a regular a season with some kids who could never dream of making even the middle school team. At nine and ten his CR all stars teams played in local summer travel tournaments. At eleven and twelve his LL all star team played into August. It was fine for preteen ball. Preteen ball is supposed to be just for fun. It doesn't mean it's not competitive. But the idea preteen ball is for future development is absurd. All a kid needs to get out of preteen ball is learning basic proper fundamentals. The future development run starts at 13u on the 60/90.
And that's your opinion. I have a different one. Preteen development DOES matter. It all matters. It's a skill game. There is no age too early to hone the skills. So we just have differing opinions. At least I won't call yours absurd!
Prepubescent kids are not being trained for the future. They are being taught the basics of the game. When they get into their teens you see what you have physically along with their desire and work ethic. That's when high school and college players are developed.
ice seen enough preteen kids whose fathers said their kids are so motivated by baseball. The kids became teens, told dad "bite me" and stopped playing. What the dads didn't realize that as preteen the kids were playing "please dad." It wasn't a high level of desire for the game.
But I digress. What I've come to realize is there are several posters whose kids haven't played high school ball yet you seem to have all the answers. I found every year my two kids went through the journey I learned more and realized more reality about the past. Many of the ah ha moments of realization came looking back. It must be a special gift to know it all before getting through the experience.
RJM posted:Prepubescent kids are not being trained for the future. They are being taught the basics of the game. When they get into their teens you see what you have physically along with their desire and work ethic. That's when high school and college players are developed.
ice seen enough preteen kids whose fathers said their kids are so motivated by baseball. The kids became teens, told dad "bite me" and stopped playing. What the dads didn't realize that as preteen the kids were playing "please dad." It wasn't a high level of desire for the game.
But I digress. What I've come to realize is there are several posters whose kids haven't played high school ball yet you seem to have all the answers. I found every year my two kids went through the journey I learned more and realized more reality about the past. Many of the ah ha moments of realization came looking back. It must be a special gift to know it all before getting through the experience.
This board is a lot more fun when you fly off the handle.
I Am glad to here I have a special gift. In all my years coaching I just can't say I remember any really talented player quitting because daddy was pushing him too hard. Maybe where you grew up kids are just softer I don't know. I do know of a few cases where dads pushed their kids hard. And it was very productive by the way. The two families that come to mind instantly one played D1 basketball the other had two kids play pro ball one making it to the bigs. They still loved the game as adults. I don't push my kid that way but maybe I should. And tell the Olympic sports that early development doesn't matter. It's just insane to suggest that formative things during the formative years don't matter. But then again since you have been through it and seen it all you would know.
RJM posted:Prepubescent kids are not being trained for the future. They are being taught the basics of the game. When they get into their teens you see what you have physically along with their desire and work ethic. That's when high school and college players are developed.
ice seen enough preteen kids whose fathers said their kids are so motivated by baseball. The kids became teens, told dad "bite me" and stopped playing. What the dads didn't realize that as preteen the kids were playing "please dad." It wasn't a high level of desire for the game.
But I digress. What I've come to realize is there are several posters whose kids haven't played high school ball yet you seem to have all the answers. I found every year my two kids went through the journey I learned more and realized more reality about the past. Many of the ah ha moments of realization came looking back. It must be a special gift to know it all before getting through the experience.
My kid won't tryout for his high school until January. Does that mean that I know absolutely nothing just because my kid has not played high school ball yet?
Oh, God. Here we go again! How do people on here walk with their butts on their shoulders?
2020dad posted:I Am glad to here I have a special gift. In all my years coaching I just can't say I remember any really talented player quitting because daddy was pushing him too hard. Maybe where you grew up kids are just softer I don't know. I do know of a few cases where dads pushed their kids hard. And it was very productive by the way. The two families that come to mind instantly one played D1 basketball the other had two kids play pro ball one making it to the bigs. They still loved the game as adults. I don't push my kid that way but maybe I should. And tell the Olympic sports that early development doesn't matter. It's just insane to suggest that formative things during the formative years don't matter. But then again since you have been through it and seen it all you would know.
Some parents who are not willing to put in some extra effort with their children will say that TB and TB parents are the worst kind of people around. I link these folks to the everyone gets a trophy, and I want the government to make all decisions on how to raise my family groups. You go the extra mile and folks are offended. As I have got to know a few of these easily offended parents over the years I have decided what the real reason that they are against TB, is that they are lazy, soft, and selfish with their time.
The Doctor posted:2020dad posted:I Am glad to here I have a special gift. In all my years coaching I just can't say I remember any really talented player quitting because daddy was pushing him too hard. Maybe where you grew up kids are just softer I don't know. I do know of a few cases where dads pushed their kids hard. And it was very productive by the way. The two families that come to mind instantly one played D1 basketball the other had two kids play pro ball one making it to the bigs. They still loved the game as adults. I don't push my kid that way but maybe I should. And tell the Olympic sports that early development doesn't matter. It's just insane to suggest that formative things during the formative years don't matter. But then again since you have been through it and seen it all you would know.
Some parents who are not willing to put in some extra effort with their children will say that TB and TB parents are the worst kind of people around. I link these folks to the everyone gets a trophy, and I want the government to make all decisions on how to raise my family groups. You go the extra mile and folks are offended. As I have got to know a few of these easily offended parents over the years I have decided what the real reason that they are against TB, is that they are lazy, soft, and selfish with their time.
Do you homeschool your kids? If not, I know of some people who are prepared to shower you with the same claims that you place upon those who don't do travel ball.
Teaching Elder posted:The Doctor posted:2020dad posted:I Am glad to here I have a special gift. In all my years coaching I just can't say I remember any really talented player quitting because daddy was pushing him too hard. Maybe where you grew up kids are just softer I don't know. I do know of a few cases where dads pushed their kids hard. And it was very productive by the way. The two families that come to mind instantly one played D1 basketball the other had two kids play pro ball one making it to the bigs. They still loved the game as adults. I don't push my kid that way but maybe I should. And tell the Olympic sports that early development doesn't matter. It's just insane to suggest that formative things during the formative years don't matter. But then again since you have been through it and seen it all you would know.
Some parents who are not willing to put in some extra effort with their children will say that TB and TB parents are the worst kind of people around. I link these folks to the everyone gets a trophy, and I want the government to make all decisions on how to raise my family groups. You go the extra mile and folks are offended. As I have got to know a few of these easily offended parents over the years I have decided what the real reason that they are against TB, is that they are lazy, soft, and selfish with their time.
Do you homeschool your kids? If not, I know of some people who are prepared to shower you with the same claims that you place upon those who don't do travel ball.
I'm sure you do! And tell Bernie Sanders hi.
I heard socialism isn't bad once you get used to the monthly rations!
There's nothing wrong with TB or Rec, both serve a purpose.
Keeping a good perspective is key. Many parents go "all in" emotionally and monetarily, expecting their child's sport to pay dividends ( scholarships, draft, ect). Bad gamble IMO, that can be icing on the cake but not the primary motivation for success.
The harsh reality by the percentages, it's an extremely low number that play beyond HS, even lower beyond to pro ball. That being said, somebody has to make it, why not your player!
Truth is, you are an injury or a simple "I'm done" away from being removed from your child's perceived dream. Things change, people change, just enjoy the ride.
Baseball is an awesome sport but it's not the end all be all some make it out to be. Baseball can chew you up and spit you out if your not careful.
I won't go into names but know this kid was an exceptional talent to begin with. One of my long time friends ( former mlb player) thought he was the best coach for his young son. He was very demanding of his son and teammates. At age 12, his son told his mother he was done. This was a huge blow to dad as he did quit playing.
After re-evaluating his motivation for coaching his kid, he realized he took the joy of playing from his kid, not letting him learn from his own mistakes by trying to prepare him to be a pro as an 11yo. He believed at that time he could save his kid a lot of grief by guiding him the entire time not letting him make his own mistakes. He realized, it's a kids game that grown ups are privileged to earn a living playing.
The kid did go back after a year off, coincidentally not for dad but for another former mlb player, earning a college scholarship and is currently in MiLB.
The point is, even the former mlb player can be wrong. In his case it worked out but seldom does a kid quit the game and find his way back.
Use caution when pushing a kid to excel at early stages of development, it takes maturity to internalize competition. You never want to be the motivation for a kid quitting baseball.
Let your kid experience the game at what ever pace HE feels will be the most fun. My son has played travel ball since 8 years old. Looking back, I was way more into his success at that age than he was, however, he was on a team with his friends and he had fun. He never played at a high level of travel ball until age 13, which is when HE decided to leave his hometown travel team of buddies and play with a higher quality group of players. Definitely not Dads choice! The hometown team parents had as much fun as the boys.
After a year of travel at the Major level, he played for a rec team that went to the Babe Ruth World Series. His choice and he had fun. He is now playing travel ball again for one of the top organizations in the Country. Again his choice, and all were made because it was FUN.
The point here is that I do not believe there is a perfect recipe for success as success is defined in many different ways by an individual player. Playing travel or rec, should not define the player or the game for that matter. Make sure your kid enjoys and understands the game and let them have fun. If they are good enough and motivated enough to play at higher levels, they will.
I will note, that Rec. ball, even at the National Level is weak in comparison to travel ball except maybe the top 4 teams in the Country at a particular age group. (just my experience).
In 1987, our 1st year of the Area Code games, The Modesto JC coach and I coached our Legion team and the Chicago Cubs scout team [selected by the Northern California pro scouts]. We played 10 games before the Area Code games. We used wood bats and the opposition used metal. Our team included 11 future MLB players. This was one of the first travel teams and the players paid "nothing".
Bob
Rec ball and Travel ball are both important and both good. Of course the older a player gets he sooner or later needs to challenge himself if he has a desire to keep playing. At the younger ages it is most important that the boy or girl enjoy playing the game. Some will enjoy rec ball more, some will enjoy travel ball more.
This topic was about the state of Travel Ball. IMO, Travel Baseball at the highest level is tremendous. And whoever that was that said MLB scouts do not attend Travel Ball games is either grossly misinformed or he is dishonest. The two biggest scouting events in all of baseball are Travel Ball tournaments. Maybe he was talking about the younger age groups.
There really is no reason to compare the two. They both serve a purpose and have one thing in common... They both can be good, bad or ugly. It is important to find the good and avoid the bad and especially the ugly.
Btw why is it that almost all hardcore preteen travel ball advocates parents of currently 9-15 year Olds? Almost all guys who have kids played at D1 or pro say that 13u is early enough for TB while the younger parents often are super keen on staying ahead of the curve.
Were the D1 or pro parents that relaxed back then already or is it just hindsight?
Almost all parents of kids that made it here say that as a preteen it is enough to learn some fundamentals and have fun. I wonder if they thought like that too back then.
Dominik85 posted:Btw why is it that almost all hardcore preteen travel ball advocates parents of currently 9-15 year Olds? Almost all guys who have kids played at D1 or pro say that 13u is early enough for TB while the younger parents often are super keen on staying ahead of the curve.
Were the D1 or pro parents that relaxed back then already or is it just hindsight?
Almost all parents of kids that made it here say that as a preteen it is enough to learn some fundamentals and have fun. I wonder if they thought like that too back then.
I think it is a function of memory and how the brain and consciousness works. The current moment is the most important. It also makes it hard to recognize change over time, or change over distance. Sense of self is driven by the senses perception of here and now. It's also the necessary belief that what I am doing (or what I did) is right, and my relation to the outside world is first compared to my experience.
It's that divide in the timing of people's experience that drives a lot of debates. And makes it hard to recognize the change.
Dominik85 posted:Btw why is it that almost all hardcore preteen travel ball advocates parents of currently 9-15 year Olds? Almost all guys who have kids played at D1 or pro say that 13u is early enough for TB while the younger parents often are super keen on staying ahead of the curve.
Were the D1 or pro parents that relaxed back then already or is it just hindsight?
Almost all parents of kids that made it here say that as a preteen it is enough to learn some fundamentals and have fun. I wonder if they thought like that too back then.
I think the other key is to remember you are starting your point with the pool of kids that 'made it'. I am on the record many times saying if your kid is a special talent none of this matters much. If my kid at 14 was throwing 87 wouldn't much matter who he played for. So it's easy to be relaxed if your kid is in fact the superstar. Kids like mine need every little advantage they can get and still may never reach their dream. It's like the multimillionaire telling you how money doesn't buy happiness and good health is all that matters. Easy for them to say. And if my kid threw 87 I would be a lot more relaxed too. Just hopefully not preachy and would understand others are in a completely different position and not so lucky.
2020dad posted:Dominik85 posted:Btw why is it that almost all hardcore preteen travel ball advocates parents of currently 9-15 year Olds? Almost all guys who have kids played at D1 or pro say that 13u is early enough for TB while the younger parents often are super keen on staying ahead of the curve.
Were the D1 or pro parents that relaxed back then already or is it just hindsight?
Almost all parents of kids that made it here say that as a preteen it is enough to learn some fundamentals and have fun. I wonder if they thought like that too back then.
I think the other key is to remember you are starting your point with the pool of kids that 'made it'. I am on the record many times saying if your kid is a special talent none of this matters much. If my kid at 14 was throwing 87 wouldn't much matter who he played for. So it's easy to be relaxed if your kid is in fact the superstar. Kids like mine need every little advantage they can get and still may never reach their dream. It's like the multimillionaire telling you how money doesn't buy happiness and good health is all that matters. Easy for them to say. And if my kid threw 87 I would be a lot more relaxed too. Just hopefully not preachy and would understand others are in a completely different position and not so lucky.
Tha "advantage" most kids need is simply for their parents to relax and make the players realize they should not relax if they.want to be their best. No matter how bad Mom and Dad want "Junior" to play at the next level, "Junior" has to want it the most. No matter how worked up you get as a parent, it is not going make your kid a better player. If your kid has ability and puts forth the effort to maximize that ability, they can find a spot at the next level, whether that level is the best rec team, travel team,high school or college.
Dominik85 posted:Btw why is it that almost all hardcore preteen travel ball advocates parents of currently 9-15 year Olds? Almost all guys who have kids played at D1 or pro say that 13u is early enough for TB while the younger parents often are super keen on staying ahead of the curve.
Were the D1 or pro parents that relaxed back then already or is it just hindsight?
Almost all parents of kids that made it here say that as a preteen it is enough to learn some fundamentals and have fun. I wonder if they thought like that too back then.
I think we frequently mix X = Y. Travel ball, in and of itself, doesn't foreshadow anything regarding a player's future abilities. But most "better players" will end up playing travel ball. So it is self fulfilling. Fact is that everyone who plays travel ball may not make their high school team, especially at large highly competitive schools. Schools by me frequently have over 100 kids tryout for 40 "A" and "B" spots. So 60 kids are left out. It's unheard of for a non-travel ball player to make it. Why? Because travel ball really is (or should be) about development and refinement of the players skills. The travel ball kids are working all winter 2-3 time per week as part of their team. Then they play a lot more games than the rec. player. It's only natural that they would be more polished.
Then the issue is what age to start. The answer is when you think you, your kid, and your family is ready. I have seen kids start at 9u and go the duration to HS. But some have also fizzled out. I have seen kids start at 12u and become very successful as well.
Go44dad posted:RJM posted:Prepubescent kids are not being trained for the future. They are being taught the basics of the game. When they get into their teens you see what you have physically along with their desire and work ethic. That's when high school and college players are developed.
ice seen enough preteen kids whose fathers said their kids are so motivated by baseball. The kids became teens, told dad "bite me" and stopped playing. What the dads didn't realize that as preteen the kids were playing "please dad." It wasn't a high level of desire for the game.
But I digress. What I've come to realize is there are several posters whose kids haven't played high school ball yet you seem to have all the answers. I found every year my two kids went through the journey I learned more and realized more reality about the past. Many of the ah ha moments of realization came looking back. It must be a special gift to know it all before getting through the experience.
This board is a lot more fun when you fly off the handle.
I rarely fly off the handle. There's only one person on this board who genuinely annoys me. All I did in the above post is state a strong opinion I know through conversation with other posters is a shared opinion.
Infielddad, one of the wisest posters on this board posted a comment very similar to my opinion in the delusional parents thread.