Dominik85 posted:I think it is good for talented Players but doing it as a pre teen is probably a waste of Money but won't really hurt unless you blow your arm out.
Can't agree. Im fact it may even be more important in those early formative years. When you get older and have a better understanding of how to workout and improve yourself you need the travel ball less. When you are little just being around the better players and play in general does wonders for your early development.
The most important thing is to get out to a good start. To learn the basic fundamentals of the game early. To not create habits that will hinder your development as a player. The two areas that are without a doubt the most critical "Proper throwing mechanics" and "Proper hitting mechanics." Good coaching and instruction is the most critical element for the young player starting out. Bringing the player up in an environment that foster's a love of the game, allows them to have fun and enjoy the process of learning and growing in the game is critical to the players development.
Enjoy your time on the field with your son. Enjoy watching him play. It will be a distant memory all too soon. Don't let anything steal the joy from you. Good luck.
I'm with Coach May on this one.
In my years of coaching and with three boys having played the game, two that went through TB and the youngest that stayed rec as long as possible. I can see no difference in the quality of player in the end. It's all about the fundamentals and the proper mechanics of throwing and hitting. You can certainly get that in rec, if you have the right coach, just as you can at TB.
The real drawback is the quality of teams you play at the rec level. Playing against poorly coached teams with bad habits takes a lot of discipline to play against. I supplemented with a few tournaments and treated league play much like a practice. I believe 12u is a good age to ramp them up for competition and by then most parents are on board as well.
There really is no rush and it should be enjoyable for the players.
Has anyone watched LLWS in recent years? The players are all more polished than 20 years ago. It's night and day. Pitchers have great mechanics. Fielders have college level poise. Those are all TB players. There had been so few LLWS stars who made it to the majors. I think Sean Burroughs was the last one. That's going to change in the years to come.
Backpick25 posted:I'm with Coach May on this one.
In my years of coaching and with three boys having played the game, two that went through TB and the youngest that stayed rec as long as possible. I can see no difference in the quality of player in the end. It's all about the fundamentals and the proper mechanics of throwing and hitting. You can certainly get that in rec, if you have the right coach, just as you can at TB.
The real drawback is the quality of teams you play at the rec level. Playing against poorly coached teams with bad habits takes a lot of discipline to play against. I supplemented with a few tournaments and treated league play much like a practice. I believe 12u is a good age to ramp them up for competition and by then most parents are on board as well.
There really is no rush and it should be enjoyable for the players.
This was kind of my sentiment, but obviously, a lot of poster's Little Leagues are terrible. As for us, in machine pitch ( 7 & 8 yo.) the first baseman could catch the ball regularly when it was thrown to him. Short stops could make plays and some kids could hit it out. Was the same for every other city in our area. Local little league all-star tourney's would look like home run derbies. Some kids weren't that good, but we didn't have to play coach pitch at 11 and 12 like another, more fun oriented league in our city did.
For us, there just wasn't a real need to go and play travel ball. Many, many kids, including my own, could likely go over to the neighboring city, which swore that kids had to play TB in order to make the high school team, and make the team and play. And that program is very very good.
Do older kids need travel ball? Yeah, I'd say so. Thats an important time of development and of showcasing skills against better players. Do 7-12 year olds need it? I think that probably varies depending on the local LL program.
Interesting to learn other's perspectives on this matter.
hsbaseball101 posted:Has anyone watched LLWS in recent years? The players are all more polished than 20 years ago. It's night and day. Pitchers have great mechanics. Fielders have college level poise. Those are all TB players. There had been so few LLWS stars who made it to the majors. I think Sean Burroughs was the last one. That's going to change in the years to come.
Todd Frazier won the LLWS in the late 1990s. Also, Lance Lynn, Colby Rasmus, Michael Conforto, and I'm sure some others have played in the LLWS.
A couple of the stars on the 2011 LLWS champion are projected as early round draft picks next year.
hsbaseball101 posted:Has anyone watched LLWS in recent years? The players are all more polished than 20 years ago. It's night and day. Pitchers have great mechanics. Fielders have college level poise. Those are all TB players. There had been so few LLWS stars who made it to the majors. I think Sean Burroughs was the last one. That's going to change in the years to come.
Wrong!, Profar
LL is not really popular in our area but I was told (not sure if it's true) that a lot of travel ball players will go back to LL at 11/12 for a chance to play in the LLWS.
90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
Go44dad posted:real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
I am just making the point TB doesn't make the player. Travel, rec, sandlot, whatever floats your boat. One day every player will find his ceilling. Have fun. Its a game.
real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
The beauty of this thing is that there is no cookie cutter formula for success. I was simply stating what I thought worked best for the group of kids that I had the privilege of coaching. I wasn't saying that the path I chose was the best and only way to go. In this area, there is a huge difference between major level travel and rec ball so the state of travel ball is healthy in GA. It's just the facts but as many others have said, there's not much drop off in their areas. I think that's great!
Regarding 9th graders making varsity, I didn't say the players were guaranteed anything next year or beyond. I simply stated that they have a shot of making varsity. Is something wrong with that? I believe (I could be totally wrong) that it can be attributed to the high-level of competition they faced in travel ball. My desire for my son to compete is a life thing, not a baseball thing...and for the record, if he makes the freshman team, I will be just as proud.
real green posted:Go44dad posted:real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
I am just making the point TB doesn't make the player. Travel, rec, sandlot, whatever floats your boat. One day every player will find his ceilling. Have fun. Its a game.
I'll ask the question again, why can't travel ball be fun? Why does every travel ball parent have to be over the top?
hshuler posted:real green posted:Go44dad posted:real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
I am just making the point TB doesn't make the player. Travel, rec, sandlot, whatever floats your boat. One day every player will find his ceilling. Have fun. Its a game.
I'll ask the question again, why can't travel ball be fun? Why does every travel ball parent have to be over the top?
I didn't mean to imply that travel ball isn't fun. We have played a lot of travel. Its a great time.
hshuler posted:real green posted:Go44dad posted:real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
I am just making the point TB doesn't make the player. Travel, rec, sandlot, whatever floats your boat. One day every player will find his ceilling. Have fun. Its a game.
I'll ask the question again, why can't travel ball be fun? Why does every travel ball parent have to be over the top?
When my son was playing travel ball, it was a blast where he and his mother and I had a great time and never failed to "have fun." Also, I for one really was NEVER "over the top . . . . and pretty much just the opposite as I tend to be quite reserved in my nature. So, there you go . . . NOT "every travel ball parent" is "over the top."
hshuler posted:real green posted:Go44dad posted:real green posted:90% genetics and 10% of everything else determines how far a player can go. All these examples of lifelong travelball players making varsity as freshman doesn't prove anything. Just because some dad pulled the most athletic kids out of rec at 8 and started travelball doesn't mean travelball created a varsity player. Remove travelball and every rec team has 1-2 players that will make varsity years down the road. Go to the rec league and hand pick the best athletes and play travelball for the next 6-7yrs didn't change squat. At best, they are more polished as a freshman.
So they are more polished and played better competition? Sounds like a great deal.
I am just making the point TB doesn't make the player. Travel, rec, sandlot, whatever floats your boat. One day every player will find his ceilling. Have fun. Its a game.
I'll ask the question again, why can't travel ball be fun? Why does every travel ball parent have to be over the top?
TB is fun for us, just like rec is. Two different animals though, both have their place, if they didnt we wouldnt do both. I think this argument is getting old only because you cant compare LL to TB simply because its so different from region to region, just as one TB team is completely different from another. There are bad LL orgs and bad TB orgs.
I honestly dont know any parent thats over the top and I hope it stays that way. I know a few who are a wee bit delusional and maybe baby they're little project to much, is thats over the top?
I think over the top is saying your kid is to good to play LL.
Real green I am going to have to completely disagree here. Baseball is a skill game and those skills need to be developed. I believe almost no player ever reaches their ceiling because they do not have the will to work hard enough. So the more you play/practice with and against better competition the closer you get to your ceiling. And no that gap can not be magically overcome in high school. The travel players enter and leave high school as much better players. Wisconsin is a great example. Has had rec ball forever just like everywhere else. Only one travel organization that has been around a while - hitters. A lot of their kids came from northern Illinois! GRB is about 6 years old and Stiks is about 4. Travel ball believe it or not is still in its infancy in Wisconsin. Other organizations are still sprouting up and may compete with these three soon. Look at college commits from Wisconsin on PBR or maybe can be done through PG? The word skyrocketed comes to mind. What travel ball has done for Wisconsin is nothing short of remarkable. The quality of baseball is rising annually. Our organization (Stiks) is now beginning to compete well with organizations from other states. We still get our clocks cleaned by some of the better Illinois teams but we are closing the gap. NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING WITHOUT TRAVEL BALL. If you are a serious player travel ball is darn near an absolute must. If you are blessed with an arm that can throw 97 then I guess it doesn't matter. Rec ball = activity. Travel ball = serious about the game
P.S. As others have mentioned defining TB is part of our issue here. The rec team my son plays on during the week plays four tournaments also and is in a 'select' league. It is not a little league team. In my mind it is still rec ball. It's like the old saying about pornography 'can't define it but I know it when I see it'.
Average MLB player age in 2002 was 30 yo, in 2012 26 yo. More games against better competition at an earlier age. Have you read that before? If not, you haven't been following the thread. 30,000 kids playing "travel ball" in a single weekend.
The state of the Travel Ball Union is strong!
2020dad posted:Real green I am going to have to completely disagree here. Baseball is a skill game and those skills need to be developed. I believe almost no player ever reaches their ceiling because they do not have the will to work hard enough. So the more you play/practice with and against better competition the closer you get to your ceiling. And no that gap can not be magically overcome in high school. The travel players enter and leave high school as much better players. Wisconsin is a great example. Has had rec ball forever just like everywhere else. Only one travel organization that has been around a while - hitters. A lot of their kids came from northern Illinois! GRB is about 6 years old and Stiks is about 4. Travel ball believe it or not is still in its infancy in Wisconsin. Other organizations are still sprouting up and may compete with these three soon. Look at college commits from Wisconsin on PBR or maybe can be done through PG? The word skyrocketed comes to mind. What travel ball has done for Wisconsin is nothing short of remarkable. The quality of baseball is rising annually. Our organization (Stiks) is now beginning to compete well with organizations from other states. We still get our clocks cleaned by some of the better Illinois teams but we are closing the gap. NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING WITHOUT TRAVEL BALL. If you are a serious player travel ball is darn near an absolute must. If you are blessed with an arm that can throw 97 then I guess it doesn't matter. Rec ball = activity. Travel ball = serious about the game
That's great to hear. My son played against Hitters and GRB in the past. Always good teams...very competitive. Now if you could just get your folks at U of W to see the light and add baseball all would be good with the world 
Buckeye 2015 posted:2020dad posted:Real green I am going to have to completely disagree here. Baseball is a skill game and those skills need to be developed. I believe almost no player ever reaches their ceiling because they do not have the will to work hard enough. So the more you play/practice with and against better competition the closer you get to your ceiling. And no that gap can not be magically overcome in high school. The travel players enter and leave high school as much better players. Wisconsin is a great example. Has had rec ball forever just like everywhere else. Only one travel organization that has been around a while - hitters. A lot of their kids came from northern Illinois! GRB is about 6 years old and Stiks is about 4. Travel ball believe it or not is still in its infancy in Wisconsin. Other organizations are still sprouting up and may compete with these three soon. Look at college commits from Wisconsin on PBR or maybe can be done through PG? The word skyrocketed comes to mind. What travel ball has done for Wisconsin is nothing short of remarkable. The quality of baseball is rising annually. Our organization (Stiks) is now beginning to compete well with organizations from other states. We still get our clocks cleaned by some of the better Illinois teams but we are closing the gap. NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING WITHOUT TRAVEL BALL. If you are a serious player travel ball is darn near an absolute must. If you are blessed with an arm that can throw 97 then I guess it doesn't matter. Rec ball = activity. Travel ball = serious about the game
That's great to hear. My son played against Hitters and GRB in the past. Always good teams...very competitive. Now if you could just get your folks at U of W to see the light and add baseball all would be good with the world
Isn't that just ridiculous? Very frustrating up here. UWM is our only D1 baseball. Although Whitewater is almost like a D1.
Go44dad posted:Average MLB player age in 2002 was 30 yo, in 2012 26 yo. More games against better competition at an earlier age. Have you read that before? If not, you haven't been following the thread. 30,000 kids playing "travel ball" in a single weekend.
The state of the Travel Ball Union is strong!
Travel ball is not the reason for younger MLB players. As the stars are getting paid more and more middle priced veterans are getting pushed out of the game for lower priced younger players. It keeps franchise budgets in line.
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Average MLB player age in 2002 was 30 yo, in 2012 26 yo. More games against better competition at an earlier age. Have you read that before? If not, you haven't been following the thread. 30,000 kids playing "travel ball" in a single weekend.
The state of the Travel Ball Union is strong!
Travel ball is not the reason for younger MLB players. As the stars are getting paid more and more middle priced veterans are getting pushed out of the game for lower priced younger players. It keeps franchise budgets in line.
That's a plausible theory. It could be true. Or it could be the younger generation is better at an earlier age, because they played more competitively at a younger age than the older generations.
Interesting debate. I don't suppose any of us can say for sure the reason the Average age is down. But think about this too... College ball means something now. When I was in high school college ball wasn't nearly this big a deal. Lots of kids signed in the draft out of high school even down the draft. So now they come to the pro game at a later age, clubs are protecting them from free agency (like Bryant last year) by holding the down a little longer and yet the average age is younger. Interesting. Because of travel ball? Maybe.
Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
Today's player has so much access to information via the inner web and specialized coaching.
Theres online coaching where players send their video for analysis. In no time in the past has it been so easy for parents and players to access professional instruction.
Back in the day, you just had to figure it out. Some were fortunate enough to be around former collegiate and pro players, saving them from having to relearn skills/mechanics.
Today's academies are highly responsible for many of the high end players. Providing an environment for loads of likeminded players to hone their skills with the coaches to help promote them to the collegiate level.
I am certainly one who advocates participation in TB. It becomes necessary in the teenage years on into HS.
I don't believe TB is necessary below 11/12 yrs of age unless that player dominates all facets of the game. I'm referring to dominate with proper mechanics. We all know the kid that dominated due to early growth but had poor mechanics and approach. Those players become urban legend and the what ifs.
This is my view base on my limited experience and observations:
The question I ask myself is, what does Travel Ball bring to the table that I can't find in Rec Ball?
In Travel Ball you have teams that consist of consolidations of highly skilled and talented players playing at a higher level than you get with Rec Ball. Rec Ball doesn't consolidate players this way except maybe when the season is about to end and All Star teams are put together for a short time to close out the season. So, with Travel Ball a top/elite player can effectively play on an "All Star" team for a whole season and get much more experience playing at a higher level. Yes, not all Travel Ball teams are put together that way. For the elite players, this is how they can hone their skills far earlier than they might through Rec Ball. But honing such skill earlier is also done for those "non-elite" players who are more likely to get more opportunities to play at a higher level than within a Rec Ball organization. So, Travel Ball is like the saying "the rising tide lifts all boats." It's just that one needs to be particularly careful about promises or expectations that participating in Travel Ball on just any team will transform a "non-elite" player into an elite player.
For players ages 13 and under, there are so many factors that change as they grow into adolescence that there's no evidence that I can see where there's any added value for Travel Ball except as an avenue for the kids and their parents to simply have fun. Unfortunately it seems to often feed the ego of either child and/or parent and obscuring reality.
PGStaff posted:Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
I don't disagree with HS travel ball for kids with skill and a future. I just think that 100 game seasons for 12u players is foolish and driven mostly by overzealous parents. Go to YouTube and search "Little *insert name of MLB player*" and see how many hits you get.
There may be exceptions, but I can pretty well guarantee that most Kids aren't chomping at the bit to be dragged around the state to spend their whole weekend cooped up in a hotel doing one thing. I know their sibling have to be spitting mad. Quit trying to prep your 7 yo for the MLB. Let a kid go out and build a tree house on a weekend.
Teaching Elder posted:PGStaff posted:Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
I don't disagree with HS travel ball for kids with skill and a future. I just think that 100 game seasons for 12u players is foolish and driven mostly by overzealous parents. Go to YouTube and search "Little *insert name of MLB player*" and see how many hits you get.
There may be exceptions, but I can pretty well guarantee that most Kids aren't chomping at the bit to be dragged around the state to spend their whole weekend cooped up in a hotel doing one thing. I know their sibling have to be spitting mad. Quit trying to prep your 7 yo for the MLB. Let a kid go out and build a tree house on a weekend.
Again, travel ball could be up and down the east coast but it is USUALLY within an hour or the 14u and under kids house.
PGStaff posted:Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
One would think this is obvious and yet we have this debate over and over. People waxing poetic for rec ball. And as for the dragging kids around thing. Do you really believe these kids don't find this fun?? My son can not possibly play enough baseball. And no it's not parent driven. People have to get over this. Very very few travel parents are wackos. Very few. In fact the Rec ball parents can be far more delusional. They really believe their kid can be a player and anyone with any baseball pedigree can take one look at them and tell the parent it's time to find another hobby. Rec ball has its place for kids that jusy want to have some fun, but... Travel ball is better. It's more fun. It's better players. It makes you better. It prepares you better. ITS BETTER!!!
CaCO3Girl posted:Teaching Elder posted:PGStaff posted:Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
I don't disagree with HS travel ball for kids with skill and a future. I just think that 100 game seasons for 12u players is foolish and driven mostly by overzealous parents. Go to YouTube and search "Little *insert name of MLB player*" and see how many hits you get.
There may be exceptions, but I can pretty well guarantee that most Kids aren't chomping at the bit to be dragged around the state to spend their whole weekend cooped up in a hotel doing one thing. I know their sibling have to be spitting mad. Quit trying to prep your 7 yo for the MLB. Let a kid go out and build a tree house on a weekend.
Again, travel ball could be up and down the east coast but it is USUALLY within an hour or the 14u and under kids house.
For us travel ball was/is usually one out of town trip per season and everything else is local.
Teaching Elder posted:PGStaff posted:Here is a very interesting link... Nearly every player in this article we saw playing on Travel Teams when they were in HS. And it would be the same if they used age 30. Isn't it obvious that the top players in College and Professional Baseball played Travel Baseball?
I don't disagree with HS travel ball for kids with skill and a future. I just think that 100 game seasons for 12u players is foolish and driven mostly by overzealous parents. Go to YouTube and search "Little *insert name of MLB player*" and see how many hits you get.
There may be exceptions, but I can pretty well guarantee that most Kids aren't chomping at the bit to be dragged around the state to spend their whole weekend cooped up in a hotel doing one thing. I know their sibling have to be spitting mad. Quit trying to prep your 7 yo for the MLB. Let a kid go out and build a tree house on a weekend.
Shouldn't this have been your opening post? Just took a couple days to get to write what you wanted in the first place.
At least we know where you stand on travel ball. Next?
These TB vs rec threads are kinda like someone asking whats your favorite color and then three pages of people who love green trying to convince the posters who love blue the green is better and vice versa. I'm in the "to each there own" crowd, but...
Rec just wasn't the kids cup of tea. He made it plain he didn't like the mindset of the coaches, players, or parents. The problem was we lived in a small town with a rich HS baseball history the frowned on TB. So much so that when the wife was offered a different position in a different city we took it, even though we really like where we lived. But it was made known to us that the kid playing TB would be held against him in HS. So we moved, and their program has had good success without him and he's done well at a program that could care less if you played TB or rec. On the other hand, given how close the former HS has come to wining state the last three years, and the player he has become, if we had stayed they might have won three or four titles by the time he graduated.
Anyway, what I like about travel is where you play is up to you, unlike rec and the draft. If you end up in a bad travel program if occurs to me either one didn't do their homework or ignored the facts. TB for us was great fun, and no matter where the kid ends up baseball wise I wouldn't change a thing.
I will add this. The two summers before my son entered HS we played with a team the traveled attending Super NIT's playing majors, plus some other higher level tournaments. Never won any but did make it pretty deep in a few. So the kid saw some very good pitching/play. Skip to his freshman year in HS. Half way through the season he's called up to varsity. DH's at the end of his first game, same his 2nd and 3rd games, every time striking out looking. Now the other parents are trying to console us, telling us how big an adjustment it is to HS pitching. The thing was he had seen as good or better at the NIT's. His fourth AB was a triple off the fence and the rest is history so to speak. So TB made the transition to varsity easy for the kid in our case.
How did I know this would turn into a travel v. rec thread stating rec ball stinks. Preteen rec ball didn't stink when my kids were preteens. It didn't matter to me my kids played a regular a season with some kids who could never dream of making even the middle school team. At nine and ten his CR all stars teams played in local summer travel tournaments. At eleven and twelve his LL all star team played into August. It was fine for preteen ball. Preteen ball is supposed to be just for fun. It doesn't mean it's not competitive. But the idea preteen ball is for future development is absurd. All a kid needs to get out of preteen ball is learning basic proper fundamentals. The future development run starts at 13u on the 60/90.
RJM posted:How did I know this would turn into a travel v. rec thread stating rec ball stinks. Preteen rec ball didn't stink when my kids were preteens. It didn't matter to me my kids played a regular a season with some kids who could never dream of making even the middle school team. At nine and ten his CR all stars teams played in local summer travel tournaments. At eleven and twelve his LL all star team played into August. It was fine for preteen ball. Preteen ball is supposed to be just for fun. It doesn't mean it's not competitive. But the idea preteen ball is for future development is absurd. All a kid needs to get out of preteen ball is learning basic proper fundamentals. The future development run starts at 13u on the 60/90.
Thread wasn't intended to be a bash travel ball or Rec. Ball thing. Just a "what is the state of things now I'm travel ball?" However, per usual, it turned into an opinion thread where at times positions got put forth in a little TOO emotional manner. But hey, that's hsbaseballweb. Rarely anything gets discussed mater of factly here. Try asking how fast the adverage 12 yo throws in a thread.
RJM posted:How did I know this would turn into a travel v. rec thread stating rec ball stinks. Preteen rec ball didn't stink when my kids were preteens. It didn't matter to me my kids played a regular a season with some kids who could never dream of making even the middle school team. At nine and ten his CR all stars teams played in local summer travel tournaments. At eleven and twelve his LL all star team played into August. It was fine for preteen ball. Preteen ball is supposed to be just for fun. It doesn't mean it's not competitive. But the idea preteen ball is for future development is absurd. All a kid needs to get out of preteen ball is learning basic proper fundamentals. The future development run starts at 13u on the 60/90.
From what I've read, it depends on where you're from. We didn't have LL in our area so we played Dixie Youth All-Stars. The regular season was usually two all stars per team and most teams pitched around them and took their chances with the other kids. The one advantage we had in all-stars was that our kids had a half-season of kid pitch at seven and a full season of kid pitch at eight. Some teams were initiating kid pitch for the first time when the all-star season began. Our team actually won the Dixie Youth state championship at eight. At nine, we played in the county rec league and there not a lot of fundamentals being taught on our team. I wasn't really worried about high school at the time but I did want my kid to get better every year and I don't really think that is absurd.
Personally, I am not against rec ball. As I stated before, I thought travel was best for my son because it was a faster and more challenging game for him. My philosophy as coach was that kids would definitely have fun while learning the game so they would continue to want to play. It was the same philosophy when I coached rec ball. I truly believe that the game should be fun, no matter the level. I just don't subscribe to the theory that rec ball is all about fun and travel ball is all business. The presence or lack of fun is really up to the individual coaches.
P.S. Every parent will do what they think is best for their kid. Even if the decision was a bad one, I am sure that the right intentions were there when it was made so I don't judge. I think that we can all make our points and agree to disagree...not trying to change anyone's mind but simply stating our opinions and experiences. More than one way to skin a cat...right?
Go44dad posted:RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Average MLB player age in 2002 was 30 yo, in 2012 26 yo. More games against better competition at an earlier age. Have you read that before? If not, you haven't been following the thread. 30,000 kids playing "travel ball" in a single weekend.
The state of the Travel Ball Union is strong!
Travel ball is not the reason for younger MLB players. As the stars are getting paid more and more middle priced veterans are getting pushed out of the game for lower priced younger players. It keeps franchise budgets in line.
That's a plausible theory. It could be true. Or it could be the younger generation is better at an earlier age, because they played more competitively at a younger age than the older generations.
Here's another plausible theory -- in 2002 a lot of older players (even late 30s -- I'm looking at you, Mr. Bonds) were able to compete through the use of PEDs. Since (some of) the PED use has been cleaned up, the natural aging of players has returned to what it was in decades past, and the game has skewed younger. For example, in the 1965-69 time frame, the average age of MLB players was 27 -- much more in line with the current metrics.
BTW, G044dad, I don't disagree with your statement -- in fact, I have a theory why so many players nowadays seem to have peaked in the early 20s (Upton brothers, Longoria, Jay Bruce, Delmon Young, maybe Jason Heyward, etc.) -- because their development got sort-of pushed ahead -- more games against better competition earlier.
RJM posted:Preteen ball is supposed to be just for fun. It doesn't mean it's not competitive. But the idea preteen ball is for future development is absurd. All a kid needs to get out of preteen ball is learning basic proper fundamentals. The future development run starts at 13u on the 60/90.
IDK, I didn't have my son play TB at 8 because I had MLB dreams. I had him play it because I thought it would make him the best 9 yr old player he could be, and so on and so forth. In the hope that when it counted, if opportunity presented itself, he would be as prepared as he could possibly be.
I guess I am of the mind that nothing trumps talent..... except experience and talent.
rec ball? sounds like a dirty word. Enlighten me
