You can't count on it unless he's an absolute stud. In a major metro area there will be a lot of college prospects. After the absolute studs, talent-wise many of them look alike. You don't want your son to get outworked and overlooked in the recruiting process. Also if you're going to match academic ability with baseball talent it may limit your local options.quote:I figure that if ******* is good enough in high school to be noticed all of that stuff will work itself out in the end.
I tend to side more with the view of SGV and TRHit, but then, I too run a ccllege development baseball program, so I have a bias in my views. Where I think that Coach Milburn is somewhat over-simplifying things is that most people have no idea how much communication goes on behind the scenes at top level programs with college coaches regarding their players. The fact is, the top development clubs are watched closely by many college coaches and if you've built a repore and reputation with college coaches over time, it will greatly benefit any player in your program who has the skills necessary to play at the collegiate level. As an example, our team was watched by approximately 30 different coaches over 3 days at the Jr. Fall Classic. Would you have wanted your son on the field at that showcase tournament? Getting noticed is what is important, and to get noticed, you have to play on a team that people want to scout. Players do not get recruited sight unseen. They have to be seen playing against good competition, and not every team can provide that for an aspiring player.
As for cost, it varies wildly from program to program, and from what I understand we're at the lower end of the spectrum. That said, this kind of baseball is still very expensive. Most of that expense is eaten up in air or ground travel, hotel expenses, restaurants, and other things like showcase entry fees and such. I imagine that many of the families who have young men playing in our program spend $3,000+ per summer, with approximately 2/3 or more of that on travel related costs. On the other hand, about 10-12 of our players annually end up with college baseball opportunities, so some of the parents think it is worth the expense, and the memories they get to build with their sons along the way are important too.
In closing, I'll say that today was a nice day. I was looking through Baseball America's D1 pre-season top 25, with projected starting lineups posted. I was gratified to find four of the young men who used to play on our teams in those lineups. Three of them are freshmen.
As for cost, it varies wildly from program to program, and from what I understand we're at the lower end of the spectrum. That said, this kind of baseball is still very expensive. Most of that expense is eaten up in air or ground travel, hotel expenses, restaurants, and other things like showcase entry fees and such. I imagine that many of the families who have young men playing in our program spend $3,000+ per summer, with approximately 2/3 or more of that on travel related costs. On the other hand, about 10-12 of our players annually end up with college baseball opportunities, so some of the parents think it is worth the expense, and the memories they get to build with their sons along the way are important too.
In closing, I'll say that today was a nice day. I was looking through Baseball America's D1 pre-season top 25, with projected starting lineups posted. I was gratified to find four of the young men who used to play on our teams in those lineups. Three of them are freshmen.
06
Isnt the progress of these young men what it is all about--Just got word yesterday that one of our players got his first Law school acceptance--and another is in Med school
Isnt the progress of these young men what it is all about--Just got word yesterday that one of our players got his first Law school acceptance--and another is in Med school
06catcherdad, you nailed it right on the head. Most people do not know what goes behind the scenes. I tell people what you see on the field is just a part of what goes on in our program. It is about a program have a positive reputation about having quality guys and colleges knowing they can get the information they need. The relationships that a program has with colleges is huge. We feel fortunate to have developed so many from across the country.
TRhit you are right! Help them become along, make them great players and even better young men.
TRhit you are right! Help them become along, make them great players and even better young men.
My observation, and also something I was told by a Pirates scout, has been that probably the best exposure a player can get is the big WWBA tournaments. If being on TR's team or SGV's team or going to a PG showcase gets you an opportunity to play in one of these then it was most likely more than worth it.
Great post. What some fail to realize is there is so much more to being a part of a great summer / fall baseball program. Its not just about exposure to college coaches. Its not just about getting some opportunities for the next level. Of course that is part of it. And of course if you play on a team with a good reputation your going to get some great exposure. But there is much much more to it.
For these players its the first time as a high school aged player that they are in the dugout with 20 plus other guys with the same goals , aspirations , work ethic , talent and make up as they have. It gives these players an opportunity to learn and grow as players and young men. They take their game to an even higher level by playing with and against players of their same ability. They take bp in front of 40-50 college coaches. They throw a pen with the same amount of coaches paying attention to every detail. They play in front of college coaches on a routine basis and professional scouts. They learn from each other and they feed off of each other. Its an environment that is totally different than any other environment they have been around in the game.
Our goal is to not only get players exposure to college coaches and assist them in finding a good fit. Its also about preparing them for the next level before they get there. Its about teaching them what they can expect and what they will need to do in order to be successful at the next level. I remember a particular player that was a pitcher in our program. He would get up at 5am and hit the gym at the motel. Then swim in the pool. Then run. His work ethic was tremendous. His focus was tremendous. He was not the most talented pitcher on our staff even though he signed with UNC Wilmington. But before you knew it all the pitchers were following his lead. Even took on his diet which was a very healthy one. The same things happened with hitters. None of these players want to be outworked.
You might think your working hard because your outworking everyone on your hs team. But then you get around these type of players and you find that your really not working that hard. So you learn. You learn from the guys around you. And when your in an environment where everyone is extremely competitive , extremely talented and driven to excell you either step up your game or you step aside.
There is way more to this stuff than some people think or believe. My job is to select the players that have the ability and make up to play at the next level. And then teach them what it will take to survive and be successful at the next level. Folks its alot easier to get there than it is to stay there. I too saw many players on those rosters that we have coached over the years. Many more are not listed as starters but will be contributors. It is very rewarding that is for sure. Getting seen and getting exposure is just one part of the equation. Theres alot more to it than that.
For these players its the first time as a high school aged player that they are in the dugout with 20 plus other guys with the same goals , aspirations , work ethic , talent and make up as they have. It gives these players an opportunity to learn and grow as players and young men. They take their game to an even higher level by playing with and against players of their same ability. They take bp in front of 40-50 college coaches. They throw a pen with the same amount of coaches paying attention to every detail. They play in front of college coaches on a routine basis and professional scouts. They learn from each other and they feed off of each other. Its an environment that is totally different than any other environment they have been around in the game.
Our goal is to not only get players exposure to college coaches and assist them in finding a good fit. Its also about preparing them for the next level before they get there. Its about teaching them what they can expect and what they will need to do in order to be successful at the next level. I remember a particular player that was a pitcher in our program. He would get up at 5am and hit the gym at the motel. Then swim in the pool. Then run. His work ethic was tremendous. His focus was tremendous. He was not the most talented pitcher on our staff even though he signed with UNC Wilmington. But before you knew it all the pitchers were following his lead. Even took on his diet which was a very healthy one. The same things happened with hitters. None of these players want to be outworked.
You might think your working hard because your outworking everyone on your hs team. But then you get around these type of players and you find that your really not working that hard. So you learn. You learn from the guys around you. And when your in an environment where everyone is extremely competitive , extremely talented and driven to excell you either step up your game or you step aside.
There is way more to this stuff than some people think or believe. My job is to select the players that have the ability and make up to play at the next level. And then teach them what it will take to survive and be successful at the next level. Folks its alot easier to get there than it is to stay there. I too saw many players on those rosters that we have coached over the years. Many more are not listed as starters but will be contributors. It is very rewarding that is for sure. Getting seen and getting exposure is just one part of the equation. Theres alot more to it than that.
Folks if you a are top-notch player, then others will talk about YOU.
Think about this, the showcase teams, sure they are filled with some of the best of the best, why would they not go onto college and obtain a scholarship in most cases?
Bottom-line, in my opinion, If you are a top-notch player, you will be noticed as the choice is for you and your family to make do you need to pay to join a travel/showcase team and how much money do you need to spend?
Think about this, the showcase teams, sure they are filled with some of the best of the best, why would they not go onto college and obtain a scholarship in most cases?
Bottom-line, in my opinion, If you are a top-notch player, you will be noticed as the choice is for you and your family to make do you need to pay to join a travel/showcase team and how much money do you need to spend?
My son plays for a top CDP here in Norcal. The opportunities he has received to COMPETE against the best players has been invaluable. It's all about playing against the best. As Coach May says, it brings out a whole new level of play.
Coach
Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world
Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Coach
Me to you and no disrespect intended--I am glad you are not involved with my son or my players---your thinking does not work in todays recruiting world
TRhit, YOU do not know me and have NO background on me, so your comment has no merit.
My college contact list and the kids I have helped, speaks for itself. I help kids with for no monetary return!
What's the ol' saying, "The love of money is the root of all evils"
Coach
Don't you recall the email you sent me with your self gratifying info ??
How do you know I have no BACKGROUND on you??
Don't you recall the email you sent me with your self gratifying info ??
How do you know I have no BACKGROUND on you??
Coach,
I would like to thank you for starting this thread and for providing an opportunity to discuss the issue.
Since my son is done playing, I don't have any personal stake in the the issue.
Even so, I feel your postings have created a discussion of the issue that is second to none for parents and players of the recruiting age.
Here are some things I view as relevant:
1.) Travel baseball is a fact, it is here, it is not going away, and it opens some opportunities for some players.
2.) Programs like that of catchersdad06 and I would bet Coach May involve the very top echelon of players. They don't involve guys like my son. They don't involve most players.
3.) The recruiting process for guys like my son and most players can, and often is, very different than what those with the top travel team experience.
4.) Parents and players need to be able to appreciate and accept and differentiate that not all travel programs and coaches are like those offered by catchersdad06, Coach May, TR, and here in the Bay Area, NorCal. The quality of the player, coaching, exposure, and opportunity created by a top national travel programs can be quite different than what is available for players like our son. The recruiting process/access to college coaches, etc for the vast number of players is different, also.
5.) With that said, if travel programs are going to post the NLI's and take credit of the type described at various places in this thread, then I think they also need to acknowledge the fact that a significant number of players are either not succeeding in, or are leaving, the programs in which they are placed.
6.) On this site and on another message board, there are threads about the large number of DI players transferring out of their DI to JC and DII programs. On our Nor Cal message board, one thread says upwards of 19 DI players transferred this year to one DII program. I believe that is a number that should cause concern as to why. Is it connected to the way college recruiting exists now with travel baseball and if so, in what way?.
I would sure like more information as to the relationship, if any, of the travel/showcase travel/showcase process to a recruiting results where there are lots of publicized NLI's but, seemingly a large number of "failures" within 1-2 years, which don't get any publicity.
I am not saying there is a relationship. I am proposing such a relationship is worthy of consideration and study.
7.) Lastly, as you have proposed, I personally believe there are many players who can get recruited, not necessarily at DI programs, but at top schools where they will be coached by top baseball people, by attending college camps such as the Stanford Camp, but not only that camp.
As an illustration, the high school our son attended is quite small. Most athletes play multiple sports so they can have a sports programs. Since 2004, 5 graduates of that high school have been drafted, 3 received baseball scholarships to Stanford, others played at high quality DI programs, still others attended high quality DIII's with at least one playing in the DIII CWS championship game for JHU. All of them played multiple sports in HS and, to my knowledge, not one of those guys played high level travel baseball.
There are other ways.
It is a bit ironic but in 2006, our son had the great experience to play on the same Milb team with Fungo's son. Their recruiting process out of high school could not have been more opposite.
Their playing levels in college could not have been more opposite.
By 2006, as teammates, they had a profound respect for each other.
Their is one common aspect to their very different journeys.
Fungo identified it.
It was not showcasing and/or travel baseball.
I would like to thank you for starting this thread and for providing an opportunity to discuss the issue.
Since my son is done playing, I don't have any personal stake in the the issue.
Even so, I feel your postings have created a discussion of the issue that is second to none for parents and players of the recruiting age.
Here are some things I view as relevant:
1.) Travel baseball is a fact, it is here, it is not going away, and it opens some opportunities for some players.
2.) Programs like that of catchersdad06 and I would bet Coach May involve the very top echelon of players. They don't involve guys like my son. They don't involve most players.
3.) The recruiting process for guys like my son and most players can, and often is, very different than what those with the top travel team experience.
4.) Parents and players need to be able to appreciate and accept and differentiate that not all travel programs and coaches are like those offered by catchersdad06, Coach May, TR, and here in the Bay Area, NorCal. The quality of the player, coaching, exposure, and opportunity created by a top national travel programs can be quite different than what is available for players like our son. The recruiting process/access to college coaches, etc for the vast number of players is different, also.
5.) With that said, if travel programs are going to post the NLI's and take credit of the type described at various places in this thread, then I think they also need to acknowledge the fact that a significant number of players are either not succeeding in, or are leaving, the programs in which they are placed.
6.) On this site and on another message board, there are threads about the large number of DI players transferring out of their DI to JC and DII programs. On our Nor Cal message board, one thread says upwards of 19 DI players transferred this year to one DII program. I believe that is a number that should cause concern as to why. Is it connected to the way college recruiting exists now with travel baseball and if so, in what way?.
I would sure like more information as to the relationship, if any, of the travel/showcase travel/showcase process to a recruiting results where there are lots of publicized NLI's but, seemingly a large number of "failures" within 1-2 years, which don't get any publicity.
I am not saying there is a relationship. I am proposing such a relationship is worthy of consideration and study.
7.) Lastly, as you have proposed, I personally believe there are many players who can get recruited, not necessarily at DI programs, but at top schools where they will be coached by top baseball people, by attending college camps such as the Stanford Camp, but not only that camp.
As an illustration, the high school our son attended is quite small. Most athletes play multiple sports so they can have a sports programs. Since 2004, 5 graduates of that high school have been drafted, 3 received baseball scholarships to Stanford, others played at high quality DI programs, still others attended high quality DIII's with at least one playing in the DIII CWS championship game for JHU. All of them played multiple sports in HS and, to my knowledge, not one of those guys played high level travel baseball.
There are other ways.
It is a bit ironic but in 2006, our son had the great experience to play on the same Milb team with Fungo's son. Their recruiting process out of high school could not have been more opposite.
Their playing levels in college could not have been more opposite.
By 2006, as teammates, they had a profound respect for each other.
Their is one common aspect to their very different journeys.
Fungo identified it.
It was not showcasing and/or travel baseball.
For ALL of those who might have doubt about me,
here is a some testimonials from others :
https://docs.google.com/filevi...ljY2E5ZjQ1YTVh&hl=en
I have many other letters of references but this document above should eliminate the doubters.
here is a some testimonials from others :
https://docs.google.com/filevi...ljY2E5ZjQ1YTVh&hl=en
I have many other letters of references but this document above should eliminate the doubters.
Milburn
I would respond with a PM/email but since your seem to like to take those sort of private communications and throw them into a public forum I won't--
Have a nice day
I would respond with a PM/email but since your seem to like to take those sort of private communications and throw them into a public forum I won't--
Have a nice day
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Coach
Don't you recall the email you sent me with your self gratifying info ??
How do you know I have no BACKGROUND on you??
WHY do you have such a problem with I am trying to do in helping kids and families in getting onto the next level with the least amount "out-of-pocket" expense invested? WHY???? Are you continuing to challenge and discredit me TRhit? WHY?????
For the record, I have never said anything negative toward your showcase team ... BUT you continue to give me a difficult time and want to make remarks to discredit me.
Will you please STOP as you are digging yourself a hole that is getting deeper and deeper as you just might not come out of it.
So please quit trying to insult me and entice me into a negative dialog with your comments.
Will you PLEASE stop it already!
Coach Milburn,
I think it is very unfortunate that TR has suggested that you are not providing good discussion for "today's recruiting world"
It appears that just by asking the question, at least one with a vested interest, is trying to undermine the ability to raise the issue and ask the questions.
Thank you for persisting in asking the question.
I think it is very unfortunate that TR has suggested that you are not providing good discussion for "today's recruiting world"
It appears that just by asking the question, at least one with a vested interest, is trying to undermine the ability to raise the issue and ask the questions.
Thank you for persisting in asking the question.
in looking at a few travel team websites. i notice names of players that have gone on to play in college.
a few i know only played one season, yet they are credited with the player moving on. one i know has moved on to the next level because of his ability, not because of the one season.
is this the norm?
a few i know only played one season, yet they are credited with the player moving on. one i know has moved on to the next level because of his ability, not because of the one season.
is this the norm?
Great post infielddad
I help many young men every year. I dont take a dime. I get paid to coach in the summer and fall. That pay covers my expenses only. Travel cost , motel and food. I do it because I want to help young men. Many do it for the exact same reasons.
I have helped many young men that do not play for me. Many I have never met until I get the phone call or email. Many I have seen play and I make the contact for them.
And many of them are not D1 players or players people would consider "studs." They are all good baseball players who love the game and play it the right way and want an opportunity to play at the next level. For some that means getting them on a team that will be seen by the coaches they need to be seen by. For some its a showcase or a camp. For others its a simple phone call to a coach that I have known for years who knows if I recommend a kid its money in the bank.
There is not one way for every kid. Showcase / Travel baseball is not the right path for everyone. It is the right path for some. Yes if your very talented someone will offer you. But its about creating as many options as possible so you can make a better decision. And for some its about getting an opportunity somewhere period.
Showcase baseball is just one venue , its just one way of many. Its not the only way and its not the right decision for everyone. Inform yourself and make the best decision you can.
I help many young men every year. I dont take a dime. I get paid to coach in the summer and fall. That pay covers my expenses only. Travel cost , motel and food. I do it because I want to help young men. Many do it for the exact same reasons.
I have helped many young men that do not play for me. Many I have never met until I get the phone call or email. Many I have seen play and I make the contact for them.
And many of them are not D1 players or players people would consider "studs." They are all good baseball players who love the game and play it the right way and want an opportunity to play at the next level. For some that means getting them on a team that will be seen by the coaches they need to be seen by. For some its a showcase or a camp. For others its a simple phone call to a coach that I have known for years who knows if I recommend a kid its money in the bank.
There is not one way for every kid. Showcase / Travel baseball is not the right path for everyone. It is the right path for some. Yes if your very talented someone will offer you. But its about creating as many options as possible so you can make a better decision. And for some its about getting an opportunity somewhere period.
Showcase baseball is just one venue , its just one way of many. Its not the only way and its not the right decision for everyone. Inform yourself and make the best decision you can.
Coach May,
Your post should be required reading for every high school player and the parent of every high school player who hopes to play college baseball.
Your post should be required reading for every high school player and the parent of every high school player who hopes to play college baseball.
This entire discussion can be traced back to a thread from a few weeks ago. "If you are good enough they will find you." Well, if you are good enough you need to allow yourself to be found.
These days there are many different outlets in which a person can gain exposure in order to achieve playing at the next level. When I was in high school, I didn't attend a single showcase. I was about 5'10", left-handed and didn't throw too hard. To me, I wasn't a "showcase player", the type that opens eyes at a particular event which could result in collegiate/professional attention. So I went with a travel team in my area which turned out to be a blessing. I got the exposure I needed and faced the best competition I could have (as previously noted, Jupiter is one heck of an event), and moved on to college baseball.
Do what is right for YOU. Not what you see others doing. There are many ways to get seen, just make sure it's for the right reasons.
These days there are many different outlets in which a person can gain exposure in order to achieve playing at the next level. When I was in high school, I didn't attend a single showcase. I was about 5'10", left-handed and didn't throw too hard. To me, I wasn't a "showcase player", the type that opens eyes at a particular event which could result in collegiate/professional attention. So I went with a travel team in my area which turned out to be a blessing. I got the exposure I needed and faced the best competition I could have (as previously noted, Jupiter is one heck of an event), and moved on to college baseball.
Do what is right for YOU. Not what you see others doing. There are many ways to get seen, just make sure it's for the right reasons.
jh
don't sell yourself short, my son is a 5'10'' lefty wasn't a showcase player either. but he did ok in the game.
the only limitation is between the ears.keep at it you''ll do ok.
don't sell yourself short, my son is a 5'10'' lefty wasn't a showcase player either. but he did ok in the game.
the only limitation is between the ears.keep at it you''ll do ok.
infielddad,
Good point about the college camps. If you target them correctly they can be very useful in the recruiting process if you have the talent and perform well.
Good point about the college camps. If you target them correctly they can be very useful in the recruiting process if you have the talent and perform well.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
milburn
You know what is scary?--a poster putting up a link to testimonials---anyone can get them--it is like references--you ever see a job reference that spoke bad of the applicant? I have not and I have seen a load of job applications
Funny how you glided over my statement about the self gratifying email you sent me--little things stick in this old mans mind
Have a nice day
Bottom-line "TRhit", you are making money off this gig and I am not, so that is the major difference between you and I.
The "testimonials" went up because YOU want to try discredit me for some reason.
I for one have never stated anything negative toward you or about your program, but you had made this a personal issue and for that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Coach,
I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.
That's OK, but it appears you are very much an American Legion guy. I was too, many years ago. IMO, I think that is the main reason you have brought up the subject. And if it is, that's perfectly OK. I love Legion baseball, too.
Whenever I see posts that are written based on just wanting to help people save their money, I find it odd. Do you really care what people spend or where they spend it? I really like this site and the people involved. Yet, not once have I ever been concerned with how anyone here spends their money other than they should donate some to this site. Are there really people who post here that care how I spend my money? Does anyone care how much I spent on my kids when they were young? If so... The answer is very little because I didn't have much to spend.
I would much rather discuss the positives and negatives about Legion Baseball and/or travel baseball without worrying about how much money someone is spending. Obviously cost would then be an item for discussion. Then we could all chime in on the best way to get to the next level and any costs associated with that. Then rather than receiving an education, it would feel more like an open discussion.
The way I see it is like this... A Legion person is educating us on how to spend the least amount of money getting to the next level. I would be willing to bet that nearly everyone here already knows that playing Legion Ball is less expensive than playing Travel Baseball. I know you didn't exactly say that, but it's obvious which side you would be on. One thing to debate is which one is most likely to produce the best results. Which has the best competition and which has the most MLB scouts and college coaches in attendance? Then there are many other differences to debate, as well.
So the only thing I see wrong about all of this, if anything, is the fact that you mention wanting to educate others. I would like to invite you to Georgia in July or Jupiter in October, so you would be even more prepared to educate others. I think seeing the best of both would be very educating in itself. You will even see some very good teams with players that play for free or at a low cost.
I do think you have brought up some very valid points, I just think there's more to it than simply wanting to help people save money. I could be wrong.
BTW, It would be great if American Legion baseball had more people like you involved. If they had more people like you, maybe we wouldn't have so much to discuss these days.
Note: I'm not much of a testimonial type person.
I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.
That's OK, but it appears you are very much an American Legion guy. I was too, many years ago. IMO, I think that is the main reason you have brought up the subject. And if it is, that's perfectly OK. I love Legion baseball, too.
Whenever I see posts that are written based on just wanting to help people save their money, I find it odd. Do you really care what people spend or where they spend it? I really like this site and the people involved. Yet, not once have I ever been concerned with how anyone here spends their money other than they should donate some to this site. Are there really people who post here that care how I spend my money? Does anyone care how much I spent on my kids when they were young? If so... The answer is very little because I didn't have much to spend.
I would much rather discuss the positives and negatives about Legion Baseball and/or travel baseball without worrying about how much money someone is spending. Obviously cost would then be an item for discussion. Then we could all chime in on the best way to get to the next level and any costs associated with that. Then rather than receiving an education, it would feel more like an open discussion.
The way I see it is like this... A Legion person is educating us on how to spend the least amount of money getting to the next level. I would be willing to bet that nearly everyone here already knows that playing Legion Ball is less expensive than playing Travel Baseball. I know you didn't exactly say that, but it's obvious which side you would be on. One thing to debate is which one is most likely to produce the best results. Which has the best competition and which has the most MLB scouts and college coaches in attendance? Then there are many other differences to debate, as well.
So the only thing I see wrong about all of this, if anything, is the fact that you mention wanting to educate others. I would like to invite you to Georgia in July or Jupiter in October, so you would be even more prepared to educate others. I think seeing the best of both would be very educating in itself. You will even see some very good teams with players that play for free or at a low cost.
I do think you have brought up some very valid points, I just think there's more to it than simply wanting to help people save money. I could be wrong.
BTW, It would be great if American Legion baseball had more people like you involved. If they had more people like you, maybe we wouldn't have so much to discuss these days.
Note: I'm not much of a testimonial type person.
There is no doubt that showcase/travel teams are the best way to get exposure
and to get your best baseball experience. I know a lot of parents of quality young baseball
players that just don't have the financial means to do it. What options do they have?
Where can they go?
and to get your best baseball experience. I know a lot of parents of quality young baseball
players that just don't have the financial means to do it. What options do they have?
Where can they go?
First of all whats wrong with making a living at providing a valuable service? I believe there is nothing greater for a person than to go to work everyday doing something that they love to do that helps people they really care about while also making a living at it. Thats not a job thats a passion. Coaches get paid to coach at the HS and College levels. They dont get into this profession for the money. They do it because they have a passion for the game and those that play the game. Are there showcase / travel team coaches that do it simply for the money? I am sure there are. But they would be very easy to spot and figure out.
TR disagrees with you coach. Thats his right. But I know TR. He is in this for all the right reasons and cares deeply about the game and helping young men reach their dream. There are many young men that have played at the next level are playing at the next level and will play at the next level because of TR's passion to help them.
TR disagrees with you coach. Thats his right. But I know TR. He is in this for all the right reasons and cares deeply about the game and helping young men reach their dream. There are many young men that have played at the next level are playing at the next level and will play at the next level because of TR's passion to help them.
quote:There is no doubt that showcase/travel teams are the best way to get exposure
and to get your best baseball experience. I know a lot of parents of quality young baseball
players that just don't have the financial means to do it. What options do they have?
Where can they go?
DoverDAD,
Legion baseball or any other baseball provides an opportunity. Do whatever is possible to play baseball at the highest possible level and overcome the odds. Ask for help and help is likely to appear. I think this is exactly what Coach Milburn means. Talent is talent, if people know about a player who is extremely talented things are likely to work out. All of the best players don't appear on Area Code, East Coast Pro or Perfect Game rosters. But there are many people who want to know who the best players are. It might be a bit more difficult, but far from impossible. The best players always seem to end up with opportunities.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Coach,
I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.
Now ...
- Will someone please tell me HOW in the world did players get exposed to the colleges back before the craze of showcase/travel-ball teams started?
- How in the world did players ever get into college and/or obtain scholarships w/o travel-ball and or showcase teams?
quote:Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
Parents and players need to understand just because you spend more money does not guarantee you anything but less money in the bank.
My thoughts exactly.
Exposure is necessary, but I don't beleive in over spending, it only takes one coach to see you who likes you to make that offer. There are some venues that without a doubt you should attend, attending camps of the college you may be interested in is also beneficial. Playing for someone who knows many college coaches is important too. Playing for a team that has a good reputation of winning and good kids is important too. Coaches appreciate it when you have spent time with the player and you can speak for his work, team efforts and personality.
I am not sure what the argument is, as CPLZ said a few days ago in another thread, there are more ways than one to skin a cat, and you don't have to feel you have to break the bank to do it, even today.
JMO.
quote:Originally posted by azallan:
I am the lucky one that lived through that! Yes, I got the NCSA before I found reality. But it did serve as a knowlege base and a good refrence for us. This site is definately more useful! At 50 you arn't as loose as you were. I still have nightmares about that. No more pitching for me! But son still needs a East Cobb team. Don't let my recklessness take you away from his opportunities. I promise to be good. lol thanks
I am not understanding the "need" for playing for a team at East Cobb if he is satisfied with the school he has signed for? Why not just play close to home? I also don't understand the need to post his website address so many times.
What's up, be honest, are you looking for a better opportunity for him?
quote:Originally posted by Coach Milburn:quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Now ...
- Will someone please tell me HOW in the world did players get exposed to the colleges back before the craze of showcase/travel-ball teams started?
- How in the world did players ever get into college and/or obtain scholarships w/o travel-ball and or showcase teams?
Coach,
I believe these are worthwhile discussions, but it does appear that your motives might go a bit beyond simply trying to save people money and to educate them.
Coach, I'll be happy to address that question. Years ago, before the advent of college development programs (CD Teams) and/or travel baseball teams, things like high school baseball and legion baseball were all that was out there. recruiters and scouts would go from game to game to check out one or two prospects, they spent a lot of time on the road, and seldom got to see very many players of interest at any one time.
When the showcases first hit the scene, things started to change. Scouts and college coaches could suddenly go to one place and watch many legitimate prospects at one time, instead of what they had been doing previously, getting to see one or two prospects at a typical high school or legion game (assuming there was even one or two at most of those games). They quickly figured out that this was a more cost effective approach, and the teams figured out that by building the best teams they could, the level of baseball they played was higher and spurred the players with the ability to play at those levels on to better themselves. It also gave the recruiters and scouts a better gauge of a prospects true potential because he is now playing against players with similar talent. I won't go into that aspect more as I believe that the post by Coach May earlier in this thread was about as perfect a description as it is possible to give.
The bottom line is that back in 'the old days' that you ask about, there was no alternative. Nowadays, most of the top players are participating in this type of baseball, and doing it for many reasons. College recruiters and scouts go to these games for a few simple reasons. #1, they get to see most of the top talent compete with and against each other. Second, they can stretch their travel budgets and maximize the use of their time in a more efficient manner.
I think American Legion baseball is a great thing, but please realize that while we're playing the same game, we're not really playing the same game. Legion teams generally cannot compete with the top College Development teams if for no other reason than the composition of their rosters. You can only recruit players from a small number of schools, while I have no restrictions. I can go recruit any player I want, from anywhere. You get the best five to seven players from each school you draw from, while teams like mine get the best one or two players from the schools we draw from. Now, put yourself in the shoes of a college recruiting coordinator or MLB scout, which team would you rather scout for future players?
To illustrate this as clearly as possible, I'm listing the roster for my 2009 18u Connie Mack league team. Please note, I am NOT taking credit for these boys getting to college (though all of their families will tell you I played a role with most of them) nor for developing them into fine young men and players as most of them had outstanding high school coaches who taught them how to play the game the right way. They're all good students, and fine young men.
Again, put yourself in the role of a college recruiter or scout and tell yourself which team you'd rather watch, the typical non-college development team like a legion team, or college development teams like this one.
Here's my 2009 team:
Brock Simon, Jesuit '09, RHP, Santa Clara
Martin Agosta, Jesuit '09, RHP, St. Mary's
Alex Plog, Jesuit '09, RHP, Air Force
Stephen Ostapeck, Jesuit '09, RHP, Villanova
Justin Charles, Elk Grove '09, 2B, Fresno State
Dylan Chaves, Pleasant Grove '09, LHP, St. Mary's
Jared Deacon, Elk Grove '09, C, Cal State Fullerton
Andrew Susac, Jesuit '09, C, Oregon State
Danny Hayes, Jesuit '09, 3B/1B, Oregon State
Jimmy Bosco, Jesuit '09, OF, Cal
Chris Piwinski, Jesuit '09, C/OF, Yale
Brad Nease, Granite Bay '09, LHP, St. Mary's (medical RS, arm injury)
Michael Rivera, St. Mary's HS '09, C/3B, Fresno Pacific
Jake Schu, Oak Ridge '10, SS, committed to Nevada
Kyle Porter, Oak Ridge '10, LHP, committed to Cal
Tyler Kuresa, Oakmont '10, 1B. committed to Oregon
Jordan Mills, Oak Ridge '10, LHP, committed to St. Mary's
Will Soto, Elk Grove '10 SS/3B, committed to Sacramento State
Dan Child, Jesuit '10, RHP, committed to Oregon State
Jake Rodriguez, Elk Grove '10, SS/3B, committed to Oregon State
Plus, we had addional players who are now playing Jr. College baseball and who will move on in a couple years.
Now, before you complain that we simply go out and recruit all the top talent, I have two things to say. First, most of these student athletes played on our teams for 3-5 years. While their high school coaches deserve a lot of credit for their development, we certainly helped their development too. We all taught them to play the game the right way. Most of my coaches played college and/or pro baseball, and are all good at teaching the game, just as many of those high school coaches are. Second, we do exactly what the college baseball teams do...recruit the best prospects to fill their rosters. We're just looking for talented players when they're 13-14 years old, and taking them until they're ready for college. If you were a college coach, wouldn't you like to be able to scout teams like these?
I'll close by giving you a classic view of a regular league game we played last summer, against Norcal. My team above was playing their Connie Mack team, which had an equal number of players including Andrew Aplin, '09 Arizona State, Christian Jones '09 Oregon, Mark Appel '09 Stanford, Grant Saunders, '09 Penn, and more D1 players. This was just a regular league game. We had 10 Division 1 coaches and 4 MLB scouts at that simple league game. They were there because there were 18 legitimate prospects on the field every inning.
I hope this helps you understand what we do, and why people gravitate toward programs like ours, Norcal, TR's, Coach Mays and many other fine programs throughout the country.
Coach, I am a little stunned you posted other people's email adresses and phone numbers (probably without permission).
I would hope the moderators would remove the link.
I would hope the moderators would remove the link.
There is always somebody out there that will take your money. I have talked to parents who complained how they spent all this money for a travel team and their son got little playing time. For some reason some feel paying money = success. to all those on this site a little advice from an old timer talent = success.
quote:Originally posted by Will:
There is always somebody out there that will take your money. I have talked to parents who complained how they spent all this money for a travel team and their son got little playing time. For some reason some feel paying money = success. to all those on this site a little advice from an old timer talent = success.
True but there are some trying to help players and families for the least out-of-pocket expense as possible.
Yes there are people out there trying to help people for the least out of pocket expense. And remember you get what you pay for. If you can not afford to play on one of these teams it does not mean you are doomed. It simply means you have to take another route. College camps , local showcase events , legion baseball , summer high school league , etc.
I have been a part of two great summer fall showcase programs over the years. In both cases we "Tried to help people for the least out of pocket expense." While at the same time help their kid get as much exposure to the coaches and programs that would benefit their child the most.
Coach we all know there are people out there that will take peoples money and promise them things they can not deliver on. They prey on parents fears and their desire to see their kid advance in the game. That does not mean that everyone falls into that same category.
You can go as cheap as you want to go. Congrats if you are helping people and at the same time helping them cut down on expense. Keep on keeping on. Just dont assume that everyone that does this is out to simply make a buck. And dont knock everyone doing it just because you dont think they have to. You help your kids to the best of your ability and let everyone else do the same. There is room enough for everyone that wants to help.
I have been a part of two great summer fall showcase programs over the years. In both cases we "Tried to help people for the least out of pocket expense." While at the same time help their kid get as much exposure to the coaches and programs that would benefit their child the most.
Coach we all know there are people out there that will take peoples money and promise them things they can not deliver on. They prey on parents fears and their desire to see their kid advance in the game. That does not mean that everyone falls into that same category.
You can go as cheap as you want to go. Congrats if you are helping people and at the same time helping them cut down on expense. Keep on keeping on. Just dont assume that everyone that does this is out to simply make a buck. And dont knock everyone doing it just because you dont think they have to. You help your kids to the best of your ability and let everyone else do the same. There is room enough for everyone that wants to help.
Lets see:
On one hand - I have my first hand personal experiences - years of it - dealing with TRHit and PGStaff.
They spend all of their time helping young players reach their potential. I doubt either of these guys will be challenging Warren Buffett for world's richest man anytime soon. The mere mention of these individuals names associated with "profit" makes me want to puke.
On the other hand - I have a cyber poster named Coach Milburn. Ranting and raving about some very obvious facts - and also slinging some cyber-mud as an additional treat for us all to partake in.
Bo - with a capital B - gus. Bogus.
Here's my assessment - Legion has been slowly dying in most parts of the country - and for good reasons. Coach Milburn doesnt like that.
So - instead of talking objectively about why that has been happening for the past 20 years - he prefers to attack the organizations that have displaced Legion - and the people that run them.
Why?
Because they have provided a better alternative than Legion ball for youth players to be recognized.
Simple as that.
Typical Legion mentality - and one of the reasons why it has been dying - or in some regions of the country - now officially dead.
All IMO.
On one hand - I have my first hand personal experiences - years of it - dealing with TRHit and PGStaff.
They spend all of their time helping young players reach their potential. I doubt either of these guys will be challenging Warren Buffett for world's richest man anytime soon. The mere mention of these individuals names associated with "profit" makes me want to puke.
On the other hand - I have a cyber poster named Coach Milburn. Ranting and raving about some very obvious facts - and also slinging some cyber-mud as an additional treat for us all to partake in.
Bo - with a capital B - gus. Bogus.
Here's my assessment - Legion has been slowly dying in most parts of the country - and for good reasons. Coach Milburn doesnt like that.
So - instead of talking objectively about why that has been happening for the past 20 years - he prefers to attack the organizations that have displaced Legion - and the people that run them.
Why?
Because they have provided a better alternative than Legion ball for youth players to be recognized.
Simple as that.
Typical Legion mentality - and one of the reasons why it has been dying - or in some regions of the country - now officially dead.
All IMO.
If legion was the better option then that is what kids would be doing. Politics reign supreme in legion baseball. Rules that are simply ridiculous. I coached at a great hs program that was a feeder program for three legion programs. We are smack dab in the middle of three legion programs and depending on where you live must try out for one of three legion programs. These legion programs take the players from their programs. The kids that come from outside programs rarely make the teams and when do sit behind the kids from these home programs. I have had all state players committed to D1 programs it behind players from home schools that couldnt hold their jock strap.
So what happened? My son and his best friend wanted to play legion the summer before heading off to college so they wouldnt have to travel before going off to college. The local legion teams parents were upset because they didnt think their kids should lose playing time. The coaches "Dads of legion players" said no thanks are rosters are full. So these two boys were asked to play for a legion program in Rocky Mount 1 hour from home. They were very excited about getting the opportunity to play and attended a practice. The coaches of these other Legion programs would not release them and complained and protested and Bi*ched to the point they both said the heck with it.
Legion is dead in our area. It is dead because the serious ball players dont want to play daddy ball and politics. It might be great in your neck of the woods and if so fine enjoy. Around here its a joke and not an option for those wanting to play baseball where the best play the others play somewhere else. Legion is its own enemy.
So what happened? My son and his best friend wanted to play legion the summer before heading off to college so they wouldnt have to travel before going off to college. The local legion teams parents were upset because they didnt think their kids should lose playing time. The coaches "Dads of legion players" said no thanks are rosters are full. So these two boys were asked to play for a legion program in Rocky Mount 1 hour from home. They were very excited about getting the opportunity to play and attended a practice. The coaches of these other Legion programs would not release them and complained and protested and Bi*ched to the point they both said the heck with it.
Legion is dead in our area. It is dead because the serious ball players dont want to play daddy ball and politics. It might be great in your neck of the woods and if so fine enjoy. Around here its a joke and not an option for those wanting to play baseball where the best play the others play somewhere else. Legion is its own enemy.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Lets see:
On one hand - I have my first hand personal experiences - years of it - dealing with TRHit and PGStaff.
They spend all of their time helping young players reach their potential. I doubt either of these guys will be challenging Warren Buffett for world's richest man anytime soon. The mere mention of these individuals names associated with "profit" makes me want to puke.
On the other hand - I have a cyber poster named Coach Milburn. Ranting and raving about some very obvious facts - and also slinging some cyber-mud as an additional treat for us all to partake in.
Bo - with a capital B - gus. Bogus.
Here's my assessment - Legion has been slowly dying in most parts of the country - and for good reasons. Coach Milburn doesnt like that.
So - instead of talking objectively about why that has been happening for the past 20 years - he prefers to attack the organizations that have displaced Legion - and the people that run them.
Why?
Because they have provided a better alternative than Legion ball for youth players to be recognized.
Simple as that.
Typical Legion mentality - and one of the reasons why it has been dying - or in some regions of the country - now officially dead.
All IMO.
Sorry, but your perception is wrong.
I have not made any personal remarks regarding anyone organization.
I for one, am not affiliated with American Legion Baseball nor I am an legionnaire.
Furthermore, some of those State Commissioners got a little upset that I was offering suggestions to make ALB more attractive by expanding the rosters.
To close, No I am not mad.
That is my statement!
Coach May,
It died in the Northeast about 20 years ago. A shame.
We were fortunate in some ways. K played Legion ball 2 summers ago.
Not only did he enjoy it - but my wife and I and many of our neighbors enjoyed it as well. Legion the way I remembered it. A barbeque grill - and alot of really nice people from the Legion that made every game just fun to be at. And some excellent local players as well.
I think the other reason it was so enjoyable was that we didnt have to deal with people badmouthing other alternatives - like PG or Impact.
We just went to the games - and enjoyed them with people who wanted to carry on a true local experience - and who volunteered their time to provide a fun and healthy environment for baseball players.
I really enjoyed the experience - and feel bad about what I have seen happening to Legion Ball elsewhere over the past 20 years or so.
It died in the Northeast about 20 years ago. A shame.
We were fortunate in some ways. K played Legion ball 2 summers ago.
Not only did he enjoy it - but my wife and I and many of our neighbors enjoyed it as well. Legion the way I remembered it. A barbeque grill - and alot of really nice people from the Legion that made every game just fun to be at. And some excellent local players as well.
I think the other reason it was so enjoyable was that we didnt have to deal with people badmouthing other alternatives - like PG or Impact.
We just went to the games - and enjoyed them with people who wanted to carry on a true local experience - and who volunteered their time to provide a fun and healthy environment for baseball players.
I really enjoyed the experience - and feel bad about what I have seen happening to Legion Ball elsewhere over the past 20 years or so.
Coach Milburn,
IMO
There is no justification - whatsoever - regardless of the argument you are having - to imply - directly or indirectly - that the pursuit of profit and TR/PG are somehow linked.
To people like me - it completely discredits anything you have to say.
Throwing that garbage into your discussions/arguments pretty much zeroes you out.
And that is that IMO.
IMO
There is no justification - whatsoever - regardless of the argument you are having - to imply - directly or indirectly - that the pursuit of profit and TR/PG are somehow linked.
To people like me - it completely discredits anything you have to say.
Throwing that garbage into your discussions/arguments pretty much zeroes you out.
And that is that IMO.