Uncommitted 2022 C - Showcase Camp/Recruiting Questions

Seems like something is off for him to not be getting attention with those numbers.

Perhaps.  His numbers have improved annually, but he's been a half-step behind peers until this year.  For instance, he hovered around 2.00 - 2.05 pop last year, this year consistently below 2.00.  Exit velo didn't exceed 90 until this spring.  Many other C's in his class who are committed had these numbers at least a year earlier.

The October camps might not be worth his time unless he has real dialog prior to those camps.  I see he is trying but they will have prospects there that they are likely going to make their last offers too (It's late for 2022 D1 and possibly D2 recruiting at this point).  If his travel program was a very good one he should speak with the head of the program, get his advice, and use him to help open doors.  That's all I got....

Hmmm.  From what little info we have here, I do wonder if we're missing part of the story here.  His measurables and grades look great.  IMO if he doesn't have any serious D1 interest as of today (and wants to play D1 in the future), I'd stop pursuing D1 100% and look to Juco.  While there are still D1 offers left out there for 22s, there are no "love" offers left for position players.  Only "likes."  I, personally, think D1 "like" offers right now - in the current environment - are recipes for disaster.  With all I can see here, I absolutely believe he could find a really nice Juco program, play some right away and work to finish his 4 years at a D1 or D2.

is the camp actually called "College Prospect Camp"?  Through Ryzer?  If so, I believe that is put together by the same people who do the "College Coaches Showcase Camp."  My son did one and we walked away extremely dissatisfied.  PM for details if you're interested.  I'd want to know what those invites he's received look like.  Are they blast emails sent out to everyone but dressed up in hopes of convincing you that they actually want YOU to come?  My son got hundreds of invites that were stock.  They were longer (multiple paragraphs) worded and punctuated perfectly, sounded amazing, etc.  But what they weren't, were legit invites.  All the real interest invites my son got to attend camps/showcases were extremely small.  One or two sentences long.  Clearly sent from a busy coach's phone.  YMMV but when it came to my son, the shorter and crappier the text of the invite, the more serious interest they had in my son.

I would recommend really focusing on the "couple D1s and D2s" that he is talking to now. Forget where he wants to go but can't get a connection. It's probably too late in the game for him and them.

He's got size, grades, metrics and experience all in his favor. Is anyone close to making an offer?

@GSully1 forgot to mention that his son is left handed.

GSully

do you know the Coaches at Mercyhurst College?

Bob

adbono is correct - LH hitter.  He received a D2 offer last week; he is expecting another D2 offer soon, he's early in their cycle.  D1's may offer later this fall.

The other D1 schools he's reached out to haven't done much with their 22 recruiting per PG and PBR.

Thanks for the feedback and advice!

Yes, we do know the coaches at Mercyhurst - a great program and coaches up and down.  Dialogue is open and strong interest.  The PSAC is highly competitive with a lot of talent.

Perhaps a post graduate year at Bishop Sycamore?  

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Perhaps a post graduate year at Bishop Sycamore?  

BTW, GSully, I believe AdBono was making a joke about your son being a lefty thrower.

An extra year at Bishop Sycamore is an interesting thought!  Some exposure on ESPN will do him some good!

@GSully1 posted:

adbono is correct - LH hitter.  He received a D2 offer last week; he is expecting another D2 offer soon, he's early in their cycle.  D1's may offer later this fall.

The other D1 schools he's reached out to haven't done much with their 22 recruiting per PG and PBR.

Thanks for the feedback and advice!

It’s highly unlikely that a D1 offer this fall would be anything other an insurance policy for that school unless there are extenuating circumstances. The C position is one of the first that is filled in every D1 program that is competitive. So a D1 school is not gonna have scholarship money this fall for a 2022 C. Most good D2 programs are in the same boat. They have also already found a C or two for their 2022 class. I’m not saying it’s impossible for something great to present itself this fall but it’s highly unlikely. I expect what you will get is a bunch of flowery walk on offers that sound much better than they actually are. My intuition tells me that the D1/D2 ship has sailed and, if that is your goal, it’s time to implement a new strategy to get you there. Have you looked at good JuCo programs?

You guys, be nice. The Bishop Sycamore players have moms.

@IAmThatGuy posted:

Perhaps a post graduate year at Bishop Sycamore?  

And……..he’s back!!!!

@smokeminside posted:

You guys, be nice. The Bishop Sycamore players have moms.

The moms of the Bishop Sycamore players are the people that should be the most concerned and/or embarrassed! What a joke !

To get back to the question in the OP, I remember that my son sometimes got what seemed like personal emails from coaches at specific schools, inviting him to multi-school showcases run by a particular organization, I think it was mostly "College Coaches Skills Camp".  He never went to any of these camps, and I don't think the emails or letters were anything more than coming out of a database.  But, since he didn't go, I guess we'll never know.

I wouldn't hold out for a D1 school. If they were interested, your son would be committed there already or at the very least have an offer from them. Even if they were interested, do they love your kid? If they loved him - why aren't they showing it?

You know what's worse than the D1 not offering? The D1 offering and finding out they don't like him after burning eligibility and wasting tuition money. If your son is not a top priority of theirs, they are hoping he turns into something he will likely never become - and if he doesn't, he's gone.

Mine had offers from P5 schools and good mid major programs. Guess what? They also didn't respond to all his texts. Went weeks without getting back to him and his coaches. Told him to call at a certain time and didn't answer. And when they finally did return calls and get him on campus, the offers were more indicative of a 16-30 players more than it was for one of "their guys". So he "settled" on a school that did the exact opposite of all that and proved they didn't want him there, but needed him.

Forget the D1s. Jump on the D2s if they're the right fit. And if they're not he should be more than comfortable betting on himself and heading to a juco which, quite frankly there are so many benefits to.

Thanks, again, for all the ideas.  JUCO is an option, but that's on the back burner for now.

@GSully1 - my 2022 is a catcher so I sorta/kinda pay attention to other 22 C's in our area (PA/NJ/NY). And, I can tell you that there are many who don't have your son's size and numbers who are already committed to D1s and D2s already.

Don't get caught without a chair when the music stops. If he has an offer and it checks most of the important boxes, don't wait for something better because it might not be coming.

Best of luck.

@GSully1 posted:

The other D1 schools he's reached out to haven't done much with their 22 recruiting per PG and PBR.

I had a quick look on PG, it's true that there are some D1 schools who don't list many 2022 recruits (4 or fewer) right now.  E.g. Hofstra, Georgetown, Binghamton, Albany, Merrimack, Miami OH, etc.  Can those who know suggest whether this means they are still recruiting, or whether there are other reasons why schools like that might not have many recruits listed?

He doesn’t need to be standing when the music stops for sure.  He’s sent info to Georgetown and GW, no replies. Miami OH has 5 commits, 2 Cs in his class per PBR. He was talking to them, but went with different C in the fall. Was told he was late in getting on their radar. None of the other schools anotherparent lists have contacted him.

I didn't mean to suggest anything specific about those schools for your son, GSully1.  I just was asking, for general information, what it means when a D1 school doesn't list many commitments at this time of year.  I would hope that that doesn't lead people to think there might still be spots, when there are not.

Ok thanks for the clarification.

You have to understand that with the 3000+ transfer portal, Juco transfers, extra years of eligibility (1 for NCAA, 2 for Juco), etc, most programs could actually afford to take the entire 2022 recruiting class off.  Now, are programs doing that?  Not likely.  But just about every program could afford to without suffering and many are bringing in very few 2022s.  I would not look at any program who only shows like 3-4 2022 commits on PG or PBR and think "they've got lots more offers coming!"

Transfer and extra eligibility rules are definitely part of the equation, thanks for mentioning them.

@anotherparent posted:

I had a quick look on PG, it's true that there are some D1 schools who don't list many 2022 recruits (4 or fewer) right now.  E.g. Hofstra, Georgetown, Binghamton, Albany, Merrimack, Miami OH, etc.  Can those who know suggest whether this means they are still recruiting, or whether there are other reasons why schools like that might not have many recruits listed?

Some commits don't list themselves until they have the acceptance letter from the school. Others may not do PG events. I guess now in addition to PG, you can gain some more data points with the Transfer Portal.

You never know what’s going on with transfers. My son won his position mid season freshman year. He played well. When he returned in the fall he discovered a JuCo All American at his position.

At the first practice he was moved around to various positions. He went from starter to “who the hell knows.” When the season started he rotated between two positions before winning one of them. You hit, you play.

Coaches pay the bills by winning and keeping their jobs. With extended Covid eligibility and no sit transfers if I’m a coach I go with as many older players @as I can than eighteen, nineteen year old freshmen.

I agree with those who say forget the D1s.  What jumps out at me in your original post was the comments that his HS and travel coaches make - "...he does his job well and is a great teammate"... sorry, but that's the baseball equivalent of "she's got a great personality".  With his grades at a solid prep school he could do well to find an HA D3.

Denzel Washington in Fences, some times you have to take a straight line crooked.

IMHO, look into JUCOs  there are many schools with successful pipelines.

In 2021, Iowa Western had 43 former players at 4 year schools of which 28 were listed on D1 rosters

Wabash Valley had 32 alumni at D1 schools

Note, everybody understands covid has created supply on human capital at every level.

Due to the limited # of seats at all levels, you will need to make quicker decision before the music stops.

Our son is a 2022. He just started thinking JUCO a few weeks ago. Maybe a month now. He now has 3 offers. Two are Division 2 one is JUCO. One other JUCO is in the talking stage. He still has some more camps and showcases to go this month.   Good thing with JUCO is even if he loses the baseball money part of it he can still get the academic and it be affordable. So we are letting him take his time. For now. None of the schools are pressuring him either. They said they will let him know if it gets to a point where they have to know.

The one thing with Juco is that you want to check the roster. I've heard a lot of stories about some Jucos bringing in 60 kids in the fall and then 25 of them never see the field in the spring.

@Francis7 posted:

The one thing with Juco is that you want to check the roster. I've heard a lot of stories about some Jucos bringing in 60 kids in the fall and then 25 of them never see the field in the spring.

@francis7

I'm assuming that you are referring to looking the spring rosters as for many jucos don't provide fall rosters, and if they do provide fall rosters (then it should be treated like a tryout, where majority of schools will cast a wide net).

IHMO, the stakeholder should look at the fall roster like a travel ball tryout process, the issue is the stakeholder might have more upfront (cost) for a tryout with no guarantees.

Please note, I'm not factoring in expected playing time.

Although there is no clear path, coaches are creatures of habit that are looking for predictable outcomes.

Stakeholders (families) should:

1 - Assume you will not know what the coach is thinking.

2 - Look at previous year's spring roster(s) - for Juco (3 or 4 years). (There are patterns)

3 - Does team have a JV team?   Add (+20) to the player count

Note, there are a couple of items that will be impossible to determine

1 - Number of non-rostered redshirts

2 - How many transfers the coach brings in after the fall season.

Assume you will not know what the coach is thinking.

Note: Ranger college varsity roster list 88,  In 2021, they didn't post a JV roster, but one can deduce more than half are playing JV.

Note: Due to covid reclassification, JUCO Roster sizes increased significantly in some places.

@CollegebaseballInsights is correct about the JV situation at Ranger College. Half the 88 players are on JV and while it’s possible for a player to elevate himself to Varsity it doesn’t happen with regularity. Any JuCo with a JV team is something to look at closely. You better know which squad you are being earmarked for. If a JuCo is fully funded, and you aren’t receiving any baseball money, and that program has a JV…….you best be careful.

Reviewing the team's website, only provides one dimension of the varsity roster size.  This is not always the most accurate for JUCO programs.

Also there is a fair number of teams that don't keep archives of their rosters.

One way to figure out how many players actually participate annually is to look at the team's EADA Report.

EADA must be submitted annually for financial aid compliance.

Teams must report how many players participate at the varsity level.

If you see significant differences, then the stakeholders should do some more research and ask some detailed questions.

Note:

2020 Roster vs EADA Compliance

2019 Roster

Note, currently their 2018 roster (website) only list 19 players, meaning they deleted players from the website. Thus if you were to only use their website to understand their roster history without looking at the EADA number, it would be hard to determine the number of players on the varsity.

https://www.rangersports.net/s...s/bsb/2017-18/roster

@Francis7 posted:

The one thing with Juco is that you want to check the roster. I've heard a lot of stories about some Jucos bringing in 60 kids in the fall and then 25 of them never see the field in the spring.

It’s more like forty of the sixty never see much of the field. It only takes about twenty players to play the season.

@Smitty28 posted:

I agree with those who say forget the D1s.  What jumps out at me in your original post was the comments that his HS and travel coaches make - "...he does his job well and is a great teammate"... sorry, but that's the baseball equivalent of "she's got a great personality".  With his grades at a solid prep school he could do well to find an HA D3.

I'm struggling to understand why nobody but Smitty28 suggested D3 HAs given the young man is at a prep school with great academics listed and we're right in the middle of that recruiting time frame?

GSully1 - was D3 HAs ever a consideration?  Did your son's travel coach provide any guidance or willingness to reach out to college programs on your behalf?

To all, thank you for the observations and suggestions.

Fenwaysouth: his travel coach has offered, but we get the impression his contacts have their C needs covered.  As noted, D3 has been recommended and with good justification.  He has some D3 schools interested, but for a variety of reasons, including non-baseball, those are not under consideration.

If you are in PA and solid player with good grades but can’t find a good fit in D3 baseball you aren’t trying very hard, IMO. There are literally a hundred or so within hours of you. Ok back to the vodka….

@GSully1- as mentioned earlier...I wish you and your son the best of luck. And, I admire your patience and calmness. (I would be freaking out right now.)

There's a lot to consider:

+ The roster saturation due to the NCAA's pandemic reaction.

+ Just two months until NLI day.

+ Just about 9 months left until HS graduation.

Don't discount the marketplace. I have lost count on how many 2020s, 2021s and 2022s we know personally who waited too long and then had to pivot to a Plan B that was way below their expectations (including not having a landing spot at all).

The pandemic has really impacted the landscape in so many ways. There's less spots, talent is cascading downward in divisions making spots harder to get, the way coaches scout and recruit has changed, schools lost money and have less money to give. It's a perfect storm scenario and these poor kids are caught in it.

Strategies that may have worked in 2019 may be obsolete in 2021. Today, it's a bird in the hand more than ever before...

For a point of reference, NJ dot com just did a report on who is committed in NJ.

They had twenty 2022 catchers on their committed list - 14 D1, two D2, two D3 and two JUCO. (Some of the D1s were really low ranking D1s...like UMBC, etc.)

Good to know.  FDU was looking at my son but told him about a month ago they were not going to offer any $$ to a 2022 C.  A young man committed there shortly after my son was informed of the decision.  Assume the player is going without baseball $$ but don't know for sure.

@GSully1 posted:

Good to know.  FDU was looking at my son but told him about a month ago they were not going to offer any $$ to a 2022 C.  A young man committed there shortly after my son was informed of the decision.  Assume the player is going without baseball $$ but don't know for sure.

I would be very surprised if they were funded in any capacity to begin with

@GSully1 posted:

Good to know.  FDU was looking at my son but told him about a month ago they were not going to offer any $$ to a 2022 C.  A young man committed there shortly after my son was informed of the decision.  Assume the player is going without baseball $$ but don't know for sure.

FDU will be very interesting. Looks like the coach is modifying their recruiting strategy

"The newcomers consist of 13 freshmen and ten transfer students featuring three catchers, three outfielders, six infielders and 11 pitchers."

Speaking to somebody in the know, the coach is a very good recruiter, thus you might see more sourced from JUCOs vs High School.

Remember he can pick from Rowan of South Jersey,Rowan of SJ-Cumberland

, Mercer Community or Lackawanna, just to name a few.

Will need to see how many freshman in the 2021 class are redshirted.

@Francis7 posted:

For a point of reference, NJ dot com just did a report on who is committed in NJ.

They had twenty 2022 catchers on their committed list - 14 D1, two D2, two D3 and two JUCO. (Some of the D1s were really low ranking D1s...like UMBC, etc.)

Update on the NJ 2022 Catchers.

24 are committed

I got 7 more that I know of that are not committed yet but consider themselves college prospects.

3 others have reclassed to 2023.

Of the 24:

14 are D1

3 are D2

5 are D3

2 are Juco

Update: after receiving offers from a couple of top D2 programs, one of which went to the CWS recently, son committed this week to another top D2 school, also went to the CWS recently. It’s been a long and winding road. He’s happy, will get a shot at playing right away, and receive a solid education.

Congrats @GSully1!  Glad to hear it.   The easy part is behind you.   Now comes the fun!

Congratulations @GSully1!

Awesome news!

Post script: son reached out to coaches he’s been talking to including the coach at the other highly successful D2 program. The coach informed him they didn’t have a spot for him anymore and good luck. They never provided a deadline nor contacted son to inform him the offer was pulled.

@GSully1 I am so very sorry to hear this. Unscrupulous to say the least.

@GSully1 posted:

Post script: son reached out to coaches he’s been talking to including the coach at the other highly successful D2 program. The coach informed him they didn’t have a spot for him anymore and good luck. They never provided a deadline nor contacted son to inform him the offer was pulled.

Apologies, I am confused. Your son verbally committed, right? What is the mention of deadline regarding?

I’m very sorry the offer was pulled, I’m just curious as to what the deadline issue was.

Sons in great shape with the school he committed to. The HC has watched him play since he was 12. Verbally committed, all is good. This other school pulled he offer without telling him. Never told son they had a deadline either. Unscrupulous for sure.

@GSully1 posted:

Sons in great shape with the school he committed to. The HC has watched him play since he was 12. Verbally committed, all is good. This other school pulled he offer without telling him. Never told son they had a deadline either. Unscrupulous for sure.

I wonder whether the "other" school got wind he took the offer and just pulled theirs afterwards to save face?

@GSully1 - as it's a D2 and your son is a 2022, why is he committed but not yet signed?  NLI day was 8 days ago. Are you waiting to sign it or have they not yet provided the NLI? If it's the latter, has the school provided an explanation on the delay?

(I know you still have many months left before you have to sign. Just wondering why anyone would wait in today's climate.)

It’s possible but unlikely given the timing of their offer v. The one he accepted.  It all has worked out just fine for my son.

He committed 2 days after November NLI day. The school he’s going to has been slow to work out their 2022 scholarships due to COVID red shirts per the HC. We are not concerned as this program typically is active now through the start of the spring season recruiting HS seniors. Plus we have an excellent long term relationship with the HC and staff.

That's good @GSully1

Again...congratulations and good luck!

How much time passed between the verbal offer (the one he didn't take and the school pulled) and when your son reached out to them and found out the offer had been pulled.  I have no desire to condone that coach's behavior, but the timeline is a key component of the equation.  A good buddy of mine has a 2022 that just committed 2 weeks ago.  He's had half a dozen offers since June but he dragged his feet with little to no active intention behind it.  I advised against the approach.  Just because a coach doesn't put a kid on a defined clock, doesn't mean he's not on a clock.  If a kid is taking an active approach to deciding, that's great.  But if the delay is solely because the kid is hoping a better looking girl asks him to the prom, you've lost me.  To me that's a symptom of the entitlement this generation feels is due to them.

The Juco my son committed to gave my son 30 days.  Coach said he didn't want to pressure my son and would give him the space to think about it, but that if my son didn't really want to go there, that he needed to move on and build his recruiting class with players who really wanted to play THERE.  I thought that was completely fair, but most parents I've talked to about it say they're glad their kids' offers didn't come with clocks.

Just for the benefit of others reading this, once a player accepts an offer and commits to a school, it is always considered a good practice to notify other schools who are recruiting him.

I know that personally my son called all the coaches he was communicating with before he even told his friends or posted anything. He received many thanks and well-wishes from these coaches.  It's always smart to try to stay on good terms with everyone you meet along the journey, because chances are very high that if you stay in the game you will cross paths again.

Question for others reading/involved in this thread. Once one commits to a JUCO are there the same "rules" or terms as committing to a D1 (or other level school)? Is the NLI binding in the same way?

If feels as if I have heard something about opting out of a JUCO commitment for D1 but I am unsure on where or who I may have heard this from.

Completely agree about communicating with schools @T_Thomas. I misread the original post and thought that the school he committed to pulled the offer without communication.

Re: Danj post, my son told the coach he planned to make a decision the week of NLI; the coach said that works for him. My son got back to him within the timeframe agreed to and found out they didn’t have a spot. Good that he chose the other school, which has been to the CWS 2 out of the last 3 years it’s been held. Reasons for sharing are twofold: golden rule, he wanted to let the coaches with whom he had developed relationships know he made a decision (to TThomas’s point), and to not burn any bridges. Interestingly, a D1 coach that he started speaking with 2 years ago but had not talked with for over a year took my sons call and said he would follow sons career. If he does well perhaps he could be a grad transfer. That is the longest of long shots but is testament to that coach’s professionalism and my son’s approach, which has not been close to an entitlement mentality.

My son has not yet posted on SM nor said anything to anyone other than his HS and travel coaches. His HS requested they be first to announce, should be any day now.