Velocity

Don't worry about the velocity right now, he should be learning how to pitch.

It's actually great to be pitching - at any velocity - heading into 8th grade.  Why? Because baseball is the best sport on the planet and (IMO) there is no more fun position than pitcher.  So, there you go! Enjoy it and work hard.  Best of luck.  Oh, and you've come to the right place to ask any and all questions you and your parents may have in the coming years.

For 8th grade its good.  Like TPM has said, I would worry more about learning to be a pitcher and less about velocity at this time.  As you mature you velocity will naturally increase.  Some kids increase to the point where they can pitch in the majors, others do increase their velocity all that much.  

 

While there are things you can work on to help you increase your velocity a lot of the growth is dependent upon your body and in the 8th grade you still do not know what is going to happen.  

 

I have seen studs mowing kids down in the 8th grade who only gained a few MPH and were Ok in HS.  I have seen kids throwing in the 60's in the 8th grade who went on to be complete studs in HS.

Yes its very good.  Don't agree with the others.  Most pitching experts will agree you work on velocity first and control second.  Besides the mechanics you need to increase velocity will also help control.  Velocity is and always has been king.  Without it no college will even bother looking at you.  Good luck.

Very good.

Velo is king... work on velo..... now one wants a 80 RHP with great location...

Tell that to someone like Sergio Romo.  

My 2016 RHP,  best PG has recorded is 84 and he is going to a really nice southern D1 program and a great scholarship too. He gets outs, swing and miss stuff, rarely misses his spots, 1st pitch strikes, above 700% strike to ball ratio, efficient. At least 10 in state/neighboring states schools interested and several D1. 

He will be the ace his Sr. Year of HS in a southern AAAAAA HS

I think he has hit 87

Great Grades certainly were a factor too. 

Get outs, it works.

Congrats on your son furthering his career . There a few RHP that can throw mid 80s in a D1 program my 2013 Being one of them. He's at a mid level D1. However if he had more velo he would be high D1 in order for them to continue playing you must have velo. V lo is like being 7 foot tall. If you have what they cannot teach you , then they can teach you to pitch

> On Aug 29, 2015, at 12:09 AM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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Keep in mind we are talking about mid 80's or 87 as if it is some easily attainable number and mediocre in nature.  Not all D1 guys even at.the highest levels are 90+ guys.  87 is still real darn fast.  As bacdor said try getting that scholarship throwing 80.  Whether folks want to accept it or not velocity is a pre -requisite.   Without it nobody even looks or cares.

I'm sure that I have used the phrase "Velocity is King" at some point.  As usual I change my mind a lot.

 

What hasn't changed is the fact that the fastball is king.  However, over the past decade or two, something has changed.  There are a very large number of high velocity guys these days.   Hitters have the biggest problem with unusual pitches.  So the unusual velocity these days is upper 90s to 100 or more.

 

When there is an over abundance of low 90s type pitchers you need something to separate them.  Most often that is movement, command or deception. So all 92 mph fastballs are far from the same.  Same goes for all fastballs, some 87 mph fastballs are much better than others. In fact, some 87 mph fastballs are better than some 90 mph fastballs. 

 

Still, velocity does draw interest.  Just for the record, I don't think young pitchers should ever ignore working on control just to gain velocity.  It takes both and often the same things that help improve velocity will also help improve control.  I do think all young pitchers should work on developing a good fastball, before all other pitches. 

 

The age old debate about when to first start throwing breaking pitches really is a mute point IMO.  But when I see 12-13 year old kids throwing 50% or more curve balls it makes me wonder if they will ever develop a good enough fastball.  We all know the curve can win lots of games, especially at the younger ages.  But does it also get in the way of developing the fastball?  And for the vast majority of highest level pitchers... The "Fastball is King" Not just velocity, but what it does and how a pitcher commands it is also important.

 

I would never get too caught up in what kids are throwing at a young age, 16 or under, because we have seen too many cases of big increases after those ages. Trevor Rosenthal is a very hard throwing pitcher for the St Louis Cardinals. He topped out at 85 mph for us as a junior in high school in 2007. We have seen low to mid 80s turn into low to mid 90s too many times to just ignore it. Sometimes you can actually see it might be in there when they were younger and sometimes it's a total surprise.

From what I have seen with mine for instance , 2013 was 6"3 beanpole at 84 as a sr. No D1 interest and went juco. Two year s later he's mid lev l D1 at 87-88 , he does had mad movement and control. But 2018 at 6"3 beanpole is 88-89 and has SEC/ACC I interest all ready , that's what makes me think the velo is the key



> On Aug 29, 2015, at 12:21 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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Conversely, it seems to me that more hitters these days are comfortable facing and hitting low 90s pitches. The game has sped up for both sides.

 

To that end, I agree that the differentiator is movement on the FB, especially when looking to get those hitters to swing and miss (or ground out). Low 90s opens the door, but movement as well as complimentary off-speed gets you through the door.

I am not sure I agree.  Depending on the division and particular conference and program it might, but you dont have to hit 90s to get a college scholarhip.

PG has it right, the fastball is king. You can have a lower velocity and have great movement and command and you will pitch in college.

 

JMO

 

Just to clarify I did say that mid 80's is faster than people think and 87 is good.  I agree you don't need to be 90's and thats what I said.  However if you are 86 lets say you have to be special in other ways to pitch D1.  And if you are say 80mph it doesn't matter how special you are in other ways they don't care.  Please don't site some example of one or two guys nationwide that may throw low 80's and pitch D1.  Velocity IS king but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be 90+.  And just a side not even in the mlb offensive numbers drop precipitously at 95mph and above.

I went to several D1 games at my local D1 last season.  The home team (a mid D1 that was ranked in the top 35 for a bit this year) had several guys that were sitting 84-85 from the right side.  The teams they were playing (SFU and Fresno St) both had guys that were sitting 84-86.  Out of the 4 or so games I went to (saw 12 pitchers or so) there was one guy sitting 90+, there were 3 or so other guys that touched 90.  Everyone else was mid 80s.  

Ask Ted Williams what he thought of the soft throwing Lhp. They drove him crazy.

if you know how to pitch, you can win!

 

Bob

There is no doubt about this statement. However, I think we're talking more here about the recruiting/scouting culture. How many soft throwing lefties were taken in last year's draft?

Watched the Canada vs Korea game last night for World Cup 18U. Canadian relief pitcher that shut down Korea is a mid D1 commit. If you believe the velocity shown on the web feed, he was sitting 79-81. So it is possible to be a right hander, low 80s pitcher and get D1 interest I guess.

Not sure what you're getting at here. Romo's fastball sits 87-89.

This was what I was talking about. They may not come from a power conference but there are opportunities and I dont believe that this was about professional ball but rather an opportunity  to play in college.

 

 

I agree you can throw 83-85 and pitch low to mid D1 if you have a few pitches, spot well and have control... 2013 can throw 90.... but it's flat, cannot control it as well , so he throws 87 with movement and location... using secondary pitches to set up the fast ball will make it appear faster. 

BUT  if your at vandy.... the mid week guys are 93+  

I know what you are saying but......Ryan Johnson got some mid week starts for Vandy this year and had some good success.  Sits 78-79 and touches 80. He's a lefty. 

Lefty is a bit different .... And always an exception to the rule



> On Aug 30, 2015, at 3:21 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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I agreye and I agree with everything that you and others posted. 

 

i guess we will see if my son continues to get outs at collegiate level with what is considered outlier velocity but there are some who do so don't want someone to think they have zero chance at a certain level based on what the radar gun says.  

Heart means a lot too



> On Aug 30, 2015, at 3:40 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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I'd say that range is high for where Romo "sits".   The main thing I was getting at is that if one does not have a 90+ fastball doesn't mean they can't be a great pitcher and one of interest.  Whatever the velocity, a pitcher needs to be able to pitch with command and be able to do it with more than just one pitch.

I get your point, but Romo's average fastball this season has been 88.4mph. His top FB was 95.2mph. The quote was that "no one wants a 80 RHP with great location." Certainly a pitcher with lower velocity can have success. However, some of this has to do with what gets you the opportunity in the first place. That's velocity much more than control. Also, the definition of high velocity somehow got defined as 90mph. I don't believe that to be true. Once you get outside of the Fri-Sunday High D1 starters in college, you'll find 90+ guys not nearly as easy to find as many would believe. So, when it comes to scouting/recruiting, a lot depends on the level you're talking about. I've seen many pitchers at low D1 and below schools throwing low 80's. Very few will get recruited to high level D1 programs throwing 80-83, but some will get a look at 85+ with the hopes that they will develop into something. You'll also see top D1's get excited about that high school sop throwing 85, but not so excited about that RHP senior throwing 85.

 

As for pro scouts, forget it if you're throwing under 90 even with outstanding stuff and great control.

 

Sorry. Those Romo numbers were career. This season, he's averaging 87.4mph.

I agree with roothogs post.
The statement made that no one wants you in low 80s is incorrect.

Thats pretty discouraging.

So what I have gathered is that velo will get you noticed to your corresponding level also in relation to if you are  a RHP , LHP , side arm etc.

 

I think I saw this on the site before... for a RHP the top level D1's wanted 88+  mid-level 86+ low level 84+  something like that... and there was some over lap with JUCO, D2 and low D1

 

LHP were a couple miles lower, 

 

But at any level you have to HIT the velo mark for that level and whether you are a LHP or RHP...

 

example, if you want to play ACC/SEC as a RHP you need to throw at least 88+ or you will not get the initial interest. That's not to say that 86+ would not get you mid level D1 interest.

 

 

I think there are all different level to this equation....

A mid D1 may have great interest in a guy who sits 84-85.  A top level D1 maybe not....unless he offers something else, quirky delivery, side arm guy ect.  

A good D2 may have great need for a guy in that level.  Some coaches recruit command some want velocity.  Most programs and coaches are not very good at improving ability levels, so, they recruit for what they see now and how that projects in their program....just speaking in general terms.  

The pro thing is totally different.  The minor leagues are full of guys who were good enough to get drafted but the organization doesn't care about them.  They are guys to fill rosters and help develop the guys they gave the huge signing bonuses too.  So it goes.  There are always exceptions.  No matter the level the onus has to be on the player and those trying to help him (parents, scout, agent, trainer etc) to develop his ability level.  

Organizations....be it colleges or pro teams, generally, are not all that interested in it.  

Depends a lot on whether you build your roster on offense or defense.
Good example is FSU.  With smaller field dimensions, theybuilt on offense.
Its a hitters park.
And their pitching staff has all different velos and looks.
People have to stop assuming too much.

I agree with you TPM . A good reason TTU took 2013 was due to his style. Not a 90+ guy , but for their field a low ball pitcher, sinker guy that gets a ton of ground balls .



> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:55 AM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Even at the high D1 level, you'll find less than half their recruiters are 90+ guys. there really aren't as many of those around as you'd gather from this board and many end up going in the draft and skipping college anyway. It's also now more and more common for schools to try and lock up the Freshmen and sophs throwing mid-80's. But again, we need a more universal idea of what we mean by high velocity. Just saying "90+" doesn't have areal-world application for college recruits. You have to admit, though, that for the professional ranks, it's a different story. MLB teams, because they're picking kids for their potential in four or five years more so than for what they can do right now, tend to have more of a universal idea of what they want in terms of raw velocity numbers and body types. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

I also agree with this , 2018 6'3 170. is topping out at 89 and while some schools are interested, we have heard that some will not even bother as they think he will go in draft . The scouts feel with his body type and arm action he will , however that is three years out and I would like for him to go to college .

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:08 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>

Sounds like a good problem to have, bacdor!

I'm shedding tears for you, man!

...also...everyone has made great points here, and all are legit.  We could bat this ball back and forth all day long, but there just are no absolutes on this point.  There will always be guys on both far ends of the Bell Curve:

1. guys who throw 92-94 but have no off speed and lack command (but coaches assume they can teach the latter), and

2. guys who are below the line on velo who have terrific secondary stuff, pound the zone, throw down hill, get ground balls and...despite lack of size and velo...just seem to know how to get guys out.  Any good coach would take a guy or two like this on his roster all day long.

 

There are always outliers, but we all know that when these D1 college coaches show up at Ft. Myers, LakePoint, Jupiter, etc., the first thing they look for is velo, velo, velo.  If an athletic kid with good make up who falls under point "2." above appears, then they will probably follow him.