Way to go Coach!

Amazing. My own son threw a 150 pitch game last year, and I didn't realize it until after the game when I counted the pitches. Fortunately, my son does tons of long-toss and he was fine, but it's reckless behavior by a coach, especially early in the season.

thats 161 counted pitches.warmups, pregame.etc how many pitches now? over 200?iron man.

Now the PCP(Pitch Count Police) forum can officially begin.

I believe there talking about this in the next post named OUCH!
Not Knowing the Young Man, Do not Know his Make up.
It still Sounds like way to many Pitches this early in the Season.
Even Later in the Season, It's to many.
The Coach should Have a certain pitch count, That all Pitcher's know when reached they will be pulled.
Nothing personel just the way it has to be.
If I was that Players Parent, Wait a minute thats right i'm not supposed to talk to the Coach. The EH

IMHO 161 pitches is dangerous and abusive.

I implore you to do you own research. Places to start may be the ASMI (American Sports Medicine Institution), ABF (American Baseball Foundation), USA Baseball Medical & Safety Advisory Committee, and Baseball Prospectus (an egghead baseball think tank). Read about the epidemiology and biomechanics of pitching, and kinematics studies on proper baseball delivery. “Google” rotator cuff & labrum tears, medial collateral ligament, soft-tissue structure of the shoulder joint, and Tommy John surgery. Read the step by step biomechanics of the stress put on a pitcher’s elbow while throwing. It’s like reading a train wreck in slow motion, microscopic tears and in some cases acute ruptures. OUCH! This is the normal occurrence when not fatigued.

Given my research and direct dialogue with doctors, physical therapists, and trainers, who are all specialists in baseball sports medicine, the risk of injury increases exponentially with each additional pitch beyond the “fatigue point”. Statistical research on baseball is relatively young 20 to 25 years. The study of pitcher abuse (i.e. PAP) is only about 5 to7 years old. There are a lot of variables that go into determining pitcher overuse; frequency of play, type of pitches thrown, velocity of pitches, throwing mechanics, pitchers age & physical development, pitch count, and recovery regiment. The current understanding puts this fatigue point for high school and college age pitchers between 80 to 100 pitches with 115 considered “red-line”. Mature professionals may reach the fatigue point around 130. This isn’t about “workhorse” professional pitchers like Ryan and Johnson, both of whom did not start carrying large number of innings (130 average) until after 30 (mostly because of control issues). The key here is the fatigue point. BB Prospectus eggheads are currently trying to quantify if the number of pitches in an inning reduces the total number pitches before reaching this fatigue point.

“Once you fatigue, it affects your mechanics and you can’t pitch with the precise timing required for a smooth, compact motion.” ~ Nolan Ryan

Quote from the Jaspars web site:
“He's our No. 1 guy and we were going to ride him until he couldn't go any more,” Manhattan head coach (name deleted) said following the win in his head coaching debut. “His pitch count got a little up there, but he kept wanting to go back out.”

If the coach in his debut does that, he won't last very long.

Smokey -


I've read most of the sources you mentioned, and will soon look at the others. I just recently heard Dr. Joe Chandler (Atlanta Braves team orthopedist) talk about this subject, which he has been studying for years. He reported a significant correlation to high pitch counts (both pitches per game and pitches per season) at young age to the incidence of serious arm injuries.

Given all the evidence that's available it seems that the pitch count police might be on to something.