http://www.yardbarker.com/all_...s/7123075/?gt1=39002
Now we're punishing kids for being good instead of teaching the rest to get better.
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Reminds me of our s****r league (yes, our kids played - briefly). First they instituted Silent Saturday - no cheering or even talking allowed by parents on the sidelines. As if that wasn't bad enough, they devised a rule whereby if your team won by six or more goals, it counted as a loss. So #2 quickly realized the way to combat the rule was to score against your own team. Of course the strategy spread like wildfire, making a mockery of the stupid league officials who thought it was a good idea in the first place. Did I mention the boy was seven years old? Smarter than the so called adults.
That was the last year of s****r for our family.
That was the last year of s****r for our family.
What a great kid, and WOW can he run. Saw a comment on this that seems to clarify the situation. Might make you think differently:
"Ridiculous internet storm over a two minute blurb that doesn't give all the facts. I KNOW THIS KID - he is a fine kid and an exceptional athlete. Nothing I say here changes that - I just get sick of people jumping to conclusions. This "league" is 4 teams all from the same intermediate school. The 5th and 6th graders that want to play football are divided up into 4 teams and taught to play football. When they get to 7th grade, they all play on the same team. This "league" is purely developmental ball so the kids are a little more prepared before 7th grade. DON'T YOU THINK DEMIAS IS GOING TO NEED SOME TEAMMATES IN THE FUTURE!!! The Madre rule hasn't been invoked over the years (although there's been a few kids every year that dominate) because the coaches before now have realized that this is developmental ball and didn't give the ball to the same kid over and over and over. THE GOAL IS TO DEVELOP ALL THE KIDS FOR JUNIOR HIGH AND LATER! And why hasn't anyone commented on the fact that 16 didn't mention anyone else on D's team? A lot of D's teammates are upset because he doesn't play this game by himself. theer's a lot of good athletes out there BLOCKING for him. Anyone actually watching these games could tell that 2 of the 4 teams dominate (there should probably be a better draft - there's teh real STORY). D's team is unbeaten, but the second place team has only been beaten once - they lost 14 0 to D's team. Guess what? There was no need for the Madre rule - Demias was held to only 2 TDs. There are great athletes on that team, too, but 16 makes it sound like D is unstoppable. SO, all o fyou complaining that Demais is being held back, GROW A BRAIN and realize that you don't always get all the facts in a 2 minute TV Blurb. Take it for what it is - D is a fine kid and great athlete - watch for him in the future - but don't accuse anyone of holding him back when you don't know all the facts."
I wonder what the coaches at the jr/sr high think about this.
"Ridiculous internet storm over a two minute blurb that doesn't give all the facts. I KNOW THIS KID - he is a fine kid and an exceptional athlete. Nothing I say here changes that - I just get sick of people jumping to conclusions. This "league" is 4 teams all from the same intermediate school. The 5th and 6th graders that want to play football are divided up into 4 teams and taught to play football. When they get to 7th grade, they all play on the same team. This "league" is purely developmental ball so the kids are a little more prepared before 7th grade. DON'T YOU THINK DEMIAS IS GOING TO NEED SOME TEAMMATES IN THE FUTURE!!! The Madre rule hasn't been invoked over the years (although there's been a few kids every year that dominate) because the coaches before now have realized that this is developmental ball and didn't give the ball to the same kid over and over and over. THE GOAL IS TO DEVELOP ALL THE KIDS FOR JUNIOR HIGH AND LATER! And why hasn't anyone commented on the fact that 16 didn't mention anyone else on D's team? A lot of D's teammates are upset because he doesn't play this game by himself. theer's a lot of good athletes out there BLOCKING for him. Anyone actually watching these games could tell that 2 of the 4 teams dominate (there should probably be a better draft - there's teh real STORY). D's team is unbeaten, but the second place team has only been beaten once - they lost 14 0 to D's team. Guess what? There was no need for the Madre rule - Demias was held to only 2 TDs. There are great athletes on that team, too, but 16 makes it sound like D is unstoppable. SO, all o fyou complaining that Demais is being held back, GROW A BRAIN and realize that you don't always get all the facts in a 2 minute TV Blurb. Take it for what it is - D is a fine kid and great athlete - watch for him in the future - but don't accuse anyone of holding him back when you don't know all the facts."
I wonder what the coaches at the jr/sr high think about this.
quote:What a great kid, and WOW can he run. Saw a comment on this that seems to clarify the situation. Might make you think differently:
Nope..Rules like this enhance the wussification of today's kids and that everybody should get a participation trophy and there are no wins and losses, only ties.
quote:devised a rule whereby if your team won by six or more goals, it counted as a loss
Baseball umpires often comment that local rules seldom work, mostly because the local rule hasn't been fully thought out.
However, the basic idea of penalizing teams that run up the score is common in s****r. Here in California, both AYSO (roughly speaking rec teams) and CYSA (roughly speaking travel teams) have the following tournament rule in effect for pool play. Teams earn pool play points for winning the game, less for tieing the game, and get a point for shutting out the other team while winning. They can also lose a point for unsportsmanslike behavior.
Winning by more than 5 triggers the loss of a point for USB. I've never seen it, but scoring an own goal in an effort to reduce the winning margin surely would also trigger the loss of a point. Frequently that loss of a point would be enough to knock a team out of the playoffs, and so winning margins almost never exceed 5.
Those who consider this a wussification rule presumably haven't much experience with s****r matches between two teams who don't speak the same language, and who have different cultural expectations of behaviors and manners.
I've never liked balancing the playing field rules. I hate the baseball mercy rule. While there's no need to intentionally run up the score, there's a lesson to be learned in getting your tail kicked: It's not fun. If you want to compete, practice harder and improve.
Yes, I've been on the short end of blowouts. It stinks. There's nothing wrong with getting upset about getting slaughtered. It's a life lesson.
Yes, I've been on the short end of blowouts. It stinks. There's nothing wrong with getting upset about getting slaughtered. It's a life lesson.
Let's be clear, these rules are not about protecting our little ones from life's cruel lessons. I've never been more amazed than talking with kids after they've been beaten pretty bad by another team and how resilient and unaffected they are by the loss. While not liking it at the time, later will often laugh it off. Getting destroyed is part of the game and inherant to getting better in fact.
These rules are put in place for moms and dads to protect their fragile sense of self.
These rules are put in place for moms and dads to protect their fragile sense of self.
Nobody likes being on the receiving end of a blowout but they are going to happen when you keep score. Not everyone is of equal talent and sometimes you just have a bad day but in the interest of "protecting" the feelings of the losers are we not creating feelings of frustration in the winners? Being told to stop competing because you're better through some arbitrary rule that isn't part of the overall rule set the sport is played under is an insult. Plus, the reality of the situation is the team being blownout knows it should be worse and some BS rule is trying to "protect" their feelings is insulting as well.
I realize we need to develop kids and that's what this league is designed for. The sad thing is when coaches don't use this time to prepare other kids. When a contest is in hand it's the duty of the coach to empty his bench and play the other kids. It might be because some kids never see the field or it's a way to develop younger talent. But to hold a team back because the losing team "feels bad" is ridiculous.
Once you empty the bench and play everyone then you keep executing the style of play that is the signature of your team. If the other team cannot stop it then that's their fault. I have never seen the point of holding back the second and third stringers from playing all out when they get a chance just because it hurts the other teams feelings. Why can't those kids get a chance to play the way the first stringers get to? If you don't want to get blown out then learn how to compete or accept the fact you're just not as good.
Friday night we played the best team in our conference in football. The final score was 47 - 7 and our starters scored on their backups on a fluke play. To say they are better than us is an understatement. The fourth quarter was played with their second and third stringers and our second stringers (because we're not deep enough to have a third string). They scored three TDs on our backups with their backups using their typical offense. That shows we have a lot of work to do and we're going to get back at it tomorrow. After the game I was talking to their headcoach and he said their third string QB got to put up some rushing yards against us. He hasn't taken a snap the whole season in a varsity game and probably won't anymore as a junior. He runs the scout offense in practice and gets lit up by the starting defense everyday in practice. Why tell this kid not to play just to keep my guys feelings from being hurt? It's my job to spin the game to get something positive out of this - not some stupid arbitrary rule or the other team. I told my guys after the game that if they want to stop getting the snot beat out of them by this team they need to get in the weightroom all year and come to summer workouts. This staff has been together for four years and we took over one of the worst football teams in the state of North Carolina. We have made significant strides but still have to make a bunch more. But if the state starts throwing around rules to "protect our feelings" I think our job would be even harder to do because nobody likes to be pitied which would drive kids away from our sport. I don't know when it will be or how long it will take but we will end up competing with that team from Friday night. But we (coaches and players) don't want it to be because somebody pulls them down to our level - we want to work hard and get to their level.
I realize we need to develop kids and that's what this league is designed for. The sad thing is when coaches don't use this time to prepare other kids. When a contest is in hand it's the duty of the coach to empty his bench and play the other kids. It might be because some kids never see the field or it's a way to develop younger talent. But to hold a team back because the losing team "feels bad" is ridiculous.
Once you empty the bench and play everyone then you keep executing the style of play that is the signature of your team. If the other team cannot stop it then that's their fault. I have never seen the point of holding back the second and third stringers from playing all out when they get a chance just because it hurts the other teams feelings. Why can't those kids get a chance to play the way the first stringers get to? If you don't want to get blown out then learn how to compete or accept the fact you're just not as good.
Friday night we played the best team in our conference in football. The final score was 47 - 7 and our starters scored on their backups on a fluke play. To say they are better than us is an understatement. The fourth quarter was played with their second and third stringers and our second stringers (because we're not deep enough to have a third string). They scored three TDs on our backups with their backups using their typical offense. That shows we have a lot of work to do and we're going to get back at it tomorrow. After the game I was talking to their headcoach and he said their third string QB got to put up some rushing yards against us. He hasn't taken a snap the whole season in a varsity game and probably won't anymore as a junior. He runs the scout offense in practice and gets lit up by the starting defense everyday in practice. Why tell this kid not to play just to keep my guys feelings from being hurt? It's my job to spin the game to get something positive out of this - not some stupid arbitrary rule or the other team. I told my guys after the game that if they want to stop getting the snot beat out of them by this team they need to get in the weightroom all year and come to summer workouts. This staff has been together for four years and we took over one of the worst football teams in the state of North Carolina. We have made significant strides but still have to make a bunch more. But if the state starts throwing around rules to "protect our feelings" I think our job would be even harder to do because nobody likes to be pitied which would drive kids away from our sport. I don't know when it will be or how long it will take but we will end up competing with that team from Friday night. But we (coaches and players) don't want it to be because somebody pulls them down to our level - we want to work hard and get to their level.
The mercy rule in baseball is necessary in the younger levels.... You may never get to the bottom of the first with some teams. (been on both sides, not fun for either)
And while we've come a long way from enlisting our 3 year olds in shooing away critters in the vegetable patch or digging out pebbles for filling in the chinks in the log cabin, I don't have a problem with letting all kids play in a REC league. After all, the parents have to pay for little Matty to play. In baseball, if you think your little Andy is better than my little Billy, then go to travel. (There was a huge discussion about that earlier) Then one will see how good little Johnny really is. Unless the coaches are playing daddy ball.....
And while we've come a long way from enlisting our 3 year olds in shooing away critters in the vegetable patch or digging out pebbles for filling in the chinks in the log cabin, I don't have a problem with letting all kids play in a REC league. After all, the parents have to pay for little Matty to play. In baseball, if you think your little Andy is better than my little Billy, then go to travel. (There was a huge discussion about that earlier) Then one will see how good little Johnny really is. Unless the coaches are playing daddy ball.....
3FG - any "sport" that requires a team to stop playing to "reduce the chance of real violence" is NO LONGER A REAL SPORT. Making a rule that penalizes a team for doing the very thing that determines the winner - ie., scoring goals or runs or touchdowns or whatever - is plain dumb.
You might as well take out the goal completely and call it figure skating and have a panel of judges decide which team is the best at kicking the ball around. Cultural differences? My sons have played against baseball teams from Japan and Latin America - never had to change the rules to keep anyone from beating anybody up. The rules are universal.
You might as well take out the goal completely and call it figure skating and have a panel of judges decide which team is the best at kicking the ball around. Cultural differences? My sons have played against baseball teams from Japan and Latin America - never had to change the rules to keep anyone from beating anybody up. The rules are universal.
mythreesons,
"NO LONGER A REAL SPORT"-- any rationale for that apparently strongly held opinion?
I doubt that any of the sports mentioned here will be confused with figure skating. A mercy rule or score differential rule in no way lessens the stark nature of which team won.
Regarding the rules being universal, my son has played in Latin America, and I attended those games. Believe me, not only were there differences in the baseball playing rules, and further in the umpire interpretations of those rules, but the ancillary "rules" were very different. Here in America, we don't play baseball with an armed guard on the field, but they did in Guatemala. In America, I've never seen police cars drive onto the field to break up an altercation between two teams and their coaches, but it happened in Puerto Rico. (Fortunately, the US team wasn't involved.) That latter incident probably wouldn't have reached that point if the game had been played under the collison rules used in HS/college ball in America.
"NO LONGER A REAL SPORT"-- any rationale for that apparently strongly held opinion?
I doubt that any of the sports mentioned here will be confused with figure skating. A mercy rule or score differential rule in no way lessens the stark nature of which team won.
Regarding the rules being universal, my son has played in Latin America, and I attended those games. Believe me, not only were there differences in the baseball playing rules, and further in the umpire interpretations of those rules, but the ancillary "rules" were very different. Here in America, we don't play baseball with an armed guard on the field, but they did in Guatemala. In America, I've never seen police cars drive onto the field to break up an altercation between two teams and their coaches, but it happened in Puerto Rico. (Fortunately, the US team wasn't involved.) That latter incident probably wouldn't have reached that point if the game had been played under the collison rules used in HS/college ball in America.
In a sport like baseball - no time limit - a mercy rule is necessary. I have seen mismatches so great that emptying the bench did not help. The top of the first inning went on for 50 minutes and only one out was recorded.
With regarding the other rules - I say let the kids play. My son has been told "don't throw so hard - you will hurt someone" since he was 6. Thats crazy.
In early rec basketball the rule was "no fast break - you need to let the other team set up" and "no stealing the ball - it is not fair". We changed leagues the following year.
I do see the need to have developmental time - it is usually called "practice".
With regarding the other rules - I say let the kids play. My son has been told "don't throw so hard - you will hurt someone" since he was 6. Thats crazy.
In early rec basketball the rule was "no fast break - you need to let the other team set up" and "no stealing the ball - it is not fair". We changed leagues the following year.
I do see the need to have developmental time - it is usually called "practice".
3Finger I think we're comparing apples to oranges. If you have to have rules such as this to keep violence from happening then that is totally different than having rules just to keep kids from feeling bad because they got beat. In your situations it's sad that people, fans and countries lack the ability to enjoy sports for what they are - an escape from the events of real life. Sports are not life and there are many other things that are way more important to focus on.
Kids growing up will face things much tougher than getting beat 47 - 7. Maybe getting their rearend handed to them will help them learn how to deal with adversity later in life. Maybe them being able to beat other teams will help them learn how to become a winner later in life. Nobody truly knows if these cliches are true or not. But to say you have to have rules to enforce "fairness" or "equality" just to keep feelings from being hurt is an insult. There are things way more important in life and if people think that getting beat in a blowout will destroy them emotionally need to get a reality check.
I take baseball and football serious and I expect my players to take them serious as well. But I also know that there are other things out there as well way more important. This past week I had a player tell me that the greatest year of his life was the year when his dad was deployed overseas. He wasn't home to get drunk and beat on him. I had another player find out his mom has breast cancer and before I found out I was ripping him daily in practice for missing a block or two. Obviously I felt like the biggest horses rear end for getting onto him when he had this going on. I took him aside and told him I had his back and if he needed to talk I was there because my dad died from cancer. Knowing this really makes me realized that if he misses a block or two it's not the end of the world and he has more important things on his mind. It's going to totally change the way I coach him. This is real life and this is how you learn how to handle real life situations. Not by passing some stupid rule that penalizes success or is trying to "help" kids not get their feelings hurt because they got beat bad.
I hope all this rambling makes sense but it just infuriates me that there are those who make these decisions that have no grasp of reality.
Kids growing up will face things much tougher than getting beat 47 - 7. Maybe getting their rearend handed to them will help them learn how to deal with adversity later in life. Maybe them being able to beat other teams will help them learn how to become a winner later in life. Nobody truly knows if these cliches are true or not. But to say you have to have rules to enforce "fairness" or "equality" just to keep feelings from being hurt is an insult. There are things way more important in life and if people think that getting beat in a blowout will destroy them emotionally need to get a reality check.
I take baseball and football serious and I expect my players to take them serious as well. But I also know that there are other things out there as well way more important. This past week I had a player tell me that the greatest year of his life was the year when his dad was deployed overseas. He wasn't home to get drunk and beat on him. I had another player find out his mom has breast cancer and before I found out I was ripping him daily in practice for missing a block or two. Obviously I felt like the biggest horses rear end for getting onto him when he had this going on. I took him aside and told him I had his back and if he needed to talk I was there because my dad died from cancer. Knowing this really makes me realized that if he misses a block or two it's not the end of the world and he has more important things on his mind. It's going to totally change the way I coach him. This is real life and this is how you learn how to handle real life situations. Not by passing some stupid rule that penalizes success or is trying to "help" kids not get their feelings hurt because they got beat bad.
I hope all this rambling makes sense but it just infuriates me that there are those who make these decisions that have no grasp of reality.
I have to agree with "fast" and some of the other posts above...
It sounds like this rule was implemented more to ensure that other players have a chance to develop, than to keep a winner from putting up big numbers. This star player isn't being benched... he can stay on the field, but if he already scored 3 TDs, another player on his team will get the ball the next time and will have a chance to develop (unless the game is still close--under 14-point spread).
That seems sensible in a developmental league. I hate it when youth coaches are so busy winning that they forget to develop as many players as they can. (And I'm talking about just a few coaches I have seen, not the majority of coaches who post here who seem very devoted to helping their players get better.)
Julie
It sounds like this rule was implemented more to ensure that other players have a chance to develop, than to keep a winner from putting up big numbers. This star player isn't being benched... he can stay on the field, but if he already scored 3 TDs, another player on his team will get the ball the next time and will have a chance to develop (unless the game is still close--under 14-point spread).
That seems sensible in a developmental league. I hate it when youth coaches are so busy winning that they forget to develop as many players as they can. (And I'm talking about just a few coaches I have seen, not the majority of coaches who post here who seem very devoted to helping their players get better.)
Julie
What happened to the good old days of going to the source of the problem? The kids aren't the ones who are the problem - it's the coaches who are trying to win the Super Bowl, World Series and NBA Championship. If you have a coach who's running up the score then he's the problem and whoever is in charge of the league needs to have a sit down with him. I just don't see the point in having a rule such as this when it can very simply be handled by talking to the coach.
Let me relay a conversation I had.
I was talking to a parent whose kid was playing little league about 9 years old. He was telling me that the umpiring duties was done by parents who volunteered. They were instructed when a kid struck out they were to say on a strike 3 not your out but your time at bat is over. I asked "if he was kidding" he said no . They were told something about "self esteem" issues.
I was talking to a parent whose kid was playing little league about 9 years old. He was telling me that the umpiring duties was done by parents who volunteered. They were instructed when a kid struck out they were to say on a strike 3 not your out but your time at bat is over. I asked "if he was kidding" he said no . They were told something about "self esteem" issues.
That's pathetic Will.
The only purpose for a mercy rule should be to speed up games so other teams can take the same field or where time limits are needed. Mercy rule should heve nothing to do with how the teams play or use it as some ethics code for winning and losing.
Can't ever remember such touchy feely considerations in local youth football. 1st son through, we had a few parents & league official that were worried their 85lb 5th grader would get hurt by an opposing 210lb 5th grade lineman. Being slow & soft (at the time), the big kid never hurt anyone. Great kid.
fast, hats off to the way this school split up the players into 4 teams & played league. My youngest played 3 seasons on a phenom youth football team. Multiple speed threats like D & unreal execution both sides of the ball. It was very exciting for my boy to play & us as Dads to work with the boys being just a school team, not a recruited bunch.
fast, hats off to the way this school split up the players into 4 teams & played league. My youngest played 3 seasons on a phenom youth football team. Multiple speed threats like D & unreal execution both sides of the ball. It was very exciting for my boy to play & us as Dads to work with the boys being just a school team, not a recruited bunch.
Don't remember a mercy rule ever being used in youth football. Many times, our youth starters would put up 5 touchdowns before half & they scored with multiple backs. Speed, strong fundamentals & execution is what put the points up on the board & shut it down on defense.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
The only purpose for a mercy rule should be to speed up games so other teams can take the same field or where time limits are needed. Mercy rule should heve nothing to do with how the teams play or use it as some ethics code for winning and losing.
This was always my thinking on why they have the mercy rules.The mercy games that go five innnings usually take as long as the regular type seven inning games. You had to get the next game in. Now in high school, lots of fields dont have lights so you have to squeeze the game in before it gets too dark.
And I really believe that the mercy rule is used for this and not to have the losing team feel better about the game. I dont think players feel better about themselves losing 14-1 in five innings then they do losing 8-1 in seven innings.
Worst mercy game I ever saw was in a tournament game before ours about 6 years ago. Team won the toss and picked to be home. Went out and the pitcher struck out the side. They went on to score 20 runs in the bottom of the first inning without one out being recorded. Ump called game, didnt know they had a 20 run first inning mercy rule. We were just happy that the good team won the toss and was home, or we may still be out there waiting for the game to end.
journey 2
pathetic? there are other words to describe it but pathetic is a start.
pathetic? there are other words to describe it but pathetic is a start.
Will, agree with your comment "if he was kidding" .