Well, this isn't good for this young man

Highly unfortunate...we'll have to see what comes of it. His father is already taking the stance that anyone can accuse anyone of anything, it means nothing. It seems the girls portrayed themselves as U of Arkansas students, so the deceptions started early on in this saga. We'll have to see how it unravels.

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and guess that he didn't know he was playing a "game" with, underaged participants, and a parent found out???

Either way, some athletes just aren't very bright!

a) This was in the bahamas where the legal age of consent is 16.
b) They met in a casino and the girls purportedly claimed the were college students.
c) There were 4 girls and 3 guys. Doesn't make sense to me.

Let's let the facts present themselves before we rush to judgement.

quote:

Originally posted by redbird5:

c) There were 4 girls and 3 guys. Doesn't make sense to me.

Not that it makes a difference, but the article above and others that I have read indicate 5 guys and 2 girls.....

P.S. I found the article from the Miami Herald particularly troubling....not rushing to judgement but the information in the Miami Herald article did not make things look very good for the young men involved. The College Baseball Daily also has some interesting articles and analysis, including quotes from the FIU student code of conduct. For the sake of all the parties involved I hope these allegations are not true and I hope that the FIU player is not involved.

Always remember the Duke Lacrosse team. Anything can happen and it's best to wait for the facts. Obviously we're not dealing with choir boys but facts are facts.

This is why you never tell strangers that you are involved in college or professional athletics.

Not that they did, but just a good example of why you don't.

I understand why son was not allowed to wear team gear off the college field and same in professional sports as well.

I grew up in Durham. I live just outside Durham now. The media, school administrators and just about everyone in the community had those guys convicted day one. Before any of the actual facts could come out they were tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Then a crazy thing happened. The facts came out.

We have no idea what really happened in this case. But it can happen to anyone. Yes it can happen to anyone. Your out on the town with your boys having a good time. You meet these nice looking young ladies. One thing leads to another. Daddy finds out something went down. Now someone has to cover up. Guess what?

Again I have no idea what happened. I hope the accusations are false. I hope its all a big misunderstanding. I hope all of our kids read this and follow this and learn from this. Dont put yourself in situations that can go sour on you in a heartbeat. Be smart and understand that there are many twists and turns something like this can take.

I am not going to take a stand either way because the real facts will not come out right now. And if your looking for facts the media is the last place to go looking for them. They are in the business of selling newspapers. And good stories are not part of that. When was the last time the headlines in any paper were about something positive?

I agree that we should not prematurely judge the young men but we should also
not prematurely pass judgement on the young ladies.

I agree with that cheapseats and I hope my post did not come across like I was.

Coach May - I understand your post and agree with it, my comment is in general. Since we don't have all the facts we should not assume either party is guilty.

Miami Herald story

http://www.miamiherald.com/201...garrett-wittels.html

Spot on coach May. Like my dad used to tell me. "if you play with matches sometimes you get burned"

Great post cheapseats

Absolutely innocent until proven guilty...but as I preached countless times to my sons: if you stay away from bars, you'll never be in a bar fight. If you stay away from places where trouble can happen, you greatly increase your chances of staying away from trouble.

I've heard coaches preach this in some version to their players for years.

I hope the media doesn't convict the kid before a trial. All we have now is allegations...and anybody can allege pretty much anything...about anyone.

.

"If you stay away from places where trouble can happen, you greatly increase your chances of staying away from trouble."

Generally I agree with that advice hokieone, but there are always exceptions. For example, I've never been in an IRS office yet they managed to cause all sorts of trouble for me and my little business.

IRS->... my business->...





.

Gotwood,

Having survived one audit in my life, I'd have to agree as the good people from the IRS were nice enough to visit on site...for three days....and then asked for a little fee for a "negligence penalty" over a point so obscure, the agent had to call back twice for assistance. When I oh-so-gently-asked "How was I negligent if even YOU didn't understand it", I got "the look"...and pulled out my checkbook.

H-1

.

We were visited at our place of business...my basement office just beyond the litter boxes. The agent was deathly afraid of cats. Since our audit took well over a year to complete this phobia of hers actually became a point of entertainment for us. Our cats seemed to get some satisfaction out of the whole ordeal too. I don't know what they were saying to each other, but whatever they concocted it had that agent always looking over her shoulder instead of my files!

Bless those cats...

Her phobia comes
on little cat feet.

They sit looking
over ledger, no pity,
with silent taunts
and they move on.

Our business was small. Think of those little Yukon Gold© potatoes sliced into quarters. My business was even smaller than those starchy wedges. Talk about small potatoes! Even a famished leprechaun would be asking for more.

I think when the agent realized how pint-sized my business was there wasn't going to be a big payoff for her and our audit kept getting shuffled to the bottom of the deck. I think it took close to a year and a half for them to bring it to a close.

They didn't find much in the end, unless you count the recycling bin full of empties...




.

I got audited by the small business section (He told me the definition for small biz is under 10M annual income, I barely came in under that threshold ). After the audit, they found the obligatory small thing to whack me with. The guy told me it was going to take 6 man days to complete what he had done in 4 hours in my office. He shook my hand and told me, "You'll never see the IRS again, you're not worth it". When they audited me again two years later, the auditor couldn't believe they said that.

.

You hooked into a second audit?

Time to put that snagger back in the bottom of your tackle box CPLZ!



.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
Absolutely innocent until proven guilty...

I hope the media doesn't convict the kid before a trial.

As far as baseball is concerned, the young man's hitting streak and spring season could hinge on how the university decides to proceed with the allegation....the preliminary hearing in the Bahamas is scheduled for April 18th which is well into the season. If the university suspends the player pending the outcome of the trial the timing of the trial/final outcome could prevent the player from attempting to break Ventura's collegiate hitting streak.

It will be very interesting to see how the university evaluates the situation.

I agree cheapseats. Unfortunately, the path of least resistance is to suspend the kid. The university can always claim that the rape of a young women supercedes any athletic endeavor and in the name of good judgement we've elected too...

Political correctness is the belief that you can pick up a turd by the clean end.

One way or another, the entire story will come out.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s...o-drugs-found-122910

This young man has some immorality issues to change, that's for sure....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
This young man has some immorality issues to change, that's for sure....

Ahhh, a stone thrower.

I've always found the baseline for morality, just as it is for ethics, to be just where the issuer wants it to be so that they are shown in the best light and the person they are vilifying is beneath the sliding threshold. Sliding scale arguments, especially those fraught with interpretive value, like the bible, rarely have any basis in true societal issues, only in the arguers puritanical and accusatory mind.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
This young man has some immorality issues to change, that's for sure....

Ahhh, a stone thrower.

I've always found the baseline for morality, just as it is for ethics, to be just where the issuer wants it to be so that they are shown in the best light and the person they are vilifying is beneath the sliding threshold. Sliding scale arguments, especially those fraught with interpretive value, like the bible, rarely have any basis in true societal issues, only in the arguers puritanical and accusatory mind.

Amen.

Amen, CPLZ.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:

If you stay away from places where trouble can happen, you greatly increase your chances of staying away from trouble.

A sports talk radio guy used to remark from time to time that you never hear about athletes getting shot, robbed, arrested, or in fights in the parking lot at closing time at the library.

Dwight Eisenhower once said, "When you put on a uniform, there are certain inhibitions you accept."

I don't accept CPLZ's assertion that only self righteous puritans could find moral implications to 5 guys having *** with two girls (or whatever happened), but perhaps we can agree that baseball players, like members of the armed forces, accept certain inhibitions along with their uniforms.

quote:

I don't accept CPLZ's assertion that only self righteous puritans could find moral implications to 5 guys having *** with two girls

I'll give you an AMEN on that...and if that makes me a self righteous puritan, I'll guess I'm right there with 90% of the country.

This is a horrible situation. I feel confident typing that everyone of the 7 individuals involved feels remorse about some part of the situation.

All 7 share responsibility for the awfulness of it.

quote:

Originally posted by playfair:
All 7 share responsibility for the awfulness of it.

Bull****. If there were rapes involved, that falls on the rapists alone.

.

"A sports talk radio guy used to remark from time to time that you never hear about athletes getting shot, robbed, arrested, or in fights in the parking lot at closing time at the library."

Although I was not an athlete, for the most part I stayed out of trouble. How? Around the corner were one of these...








.

This is a little like car accidents. Sometimes its clearly "not your fault"....and yet it was plenty avoidable. Perhaps this situation might fall into that category.

I'm not sure about the parents of 20 years olds or 17 year olds allowing them to go off to the Bahamas unchaperoned. Apparently for seven sets of parents, it was a particularly bad idea.

I hated my post. I cast a judgement that I should not have. Total edit.

I will stand by: A lot of regret and remorse to be shared by all.

Pedropere - Based on articles I have read, both the boys and girls were traveling with family with at least one set of parents. The boys were traveling with the Shapiro family. Also, I have read that 2 of the boys (Shapiro and Tromberg) did not approach the girls in the bar and remained in the casino when the alleged event took place. They have been questioned but have not been charged with anything.

I see there are plenty ready to cast the first stone.

I'll wait for the result of the investigation. So far the available and public factsare less than sufficient to warrant a charge.

As to the issue of morality, I wish I had the concession on stones.

quote:

Ahhh, a stone thrower.

I've always found the baseline for morality, just as it is for ethics, to be just where the issuer wants it to be so that they are shown in the best light and the person they are vilifying is beneath the sliding threshold. Sliding scale arguments, especially those fraught with interpretive value, like the bible, rarely have any basis in true societal issues, only in the arguers puritanical and accusatory mind.

What's peculiar about these kind of false reasonings is that this person attacks the Bible and tries to reason that societal values overrule the Bible in these situations....

Easy to see this issuer is placing the baseline for morality just where he/she wants it to be.....

Also, those who attack the Bible are quick to talk about throwing stones while their Bible illiteracy doesn't allow them the knowledge of the Bible message of throwing stones....

*** outside the confines of marriage is never a good idea. It is often explained away these days, but the outcome of promiscuity is never positive for any involved in the long run.

If we all raised our sons and daughters with this in mind our world would be a much better place. If we just raise our own this way our families will be better off.

The idea of *** outside of marriage is not just a Judeo Christian idea, but was once held up as the ideal across most successful civilizations.

I guess everyone can easilly figure out what "***" is, lol! But these opinions probably do not belong on a HS Baseball Website.

Floridafan, yes they belong here...

Your post has much value here....

When you read about situations like this you can only hope that kids reading it learn a lesson the easy way. Such bad judgement all the way around.Everyone loses in these situations.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

Ahhh, a stone thrower.

I've always found the baseline for morality, just as it is for ethics, to be just where the issuer wants it to be so that they are shown in the best light and the person they are vilifying is beneath the sliding threshold. Sliding scale arguments, especially those fraught with interpretive value, like the bible, rarely have any basis in true societal issues, only in the arguers puritanical and accusatory mind.

What's peculiar about these kind of false reasonings is that this person attacks the Bible and tries to reason that societal values overrule the Bible in these situations....

Easy to see this issuer is placing the baseline for morality just where he/she wants it to be.....

Also, those who attack the Bible are quick to talk about throwing stones while their Bible illiteracy doesn't allow them the knowledge of the Bible message of throwing stones....

I doubt that you will be able to separate an attack on a person interpreting the bible and an attack on the bible. Illiteracy along with selective interpretation and hearing, comes in many forms, as illustrated above.