What is a reasonable time to evaluate an offer? What if an offer comes after a camp or showcase but without an "official" visit? Is it reasonable to request an official visit? What is the role of parent here? Should all contact be through HS/Club coach and son or is it appropriate for me to want to meet the coach and ask questions about the program myself directly before accepting an offer?
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lhiob posted:What is a reasonable time to evaluate an offer? What if an offer comes after a camp or showcase but without an "official" visit? Is it reasonable to request an official visit? What is the role of parent here? Should all contact be through HS/Club coach and son or is it appropriate for me to want to meet the coach and ask questions about the program myself directly before accepting an offer?
It is appropriate for you to want to meet the coach and ask questions...to an extent. The baseball related questions and questions about the program should be asked by your son. It would be appropriate for you to sit in on this discussion and ask any questions not answered. It is 100% acceptable for you to ask questions related directly to the offer and the financial side of the offer as you are paying for school.
IMO no offer should be accepted without a visit to the school. Official or Unofficial. The kid should make sure the school is right for him.
lhiob posted:What is a reasonable time to evaluate an offer? What if an offer comes after a camp or showcase but without an "official" visit? Is it reasonable to request an official visit? What is the role of parent here? Should all contact be through HS/Club coach and son or is it appropriate for me to want to meet the coach and ask questions about the program myself directly before accepting an offer?
If you ignore the baseball part, how would you handle your kid saying I want to go to school X? You'd probably want to be ok with that decision - academics, social, financial, etc. So I would certainly want to visit with son and make sure it was the right place for him.
Regarding the baseball side, once my son established a relationship with the coach he handled all communication and kept us and his travel & HS coaches informed. When things looked like an offer was coming from a school on his short list, we visited the schools and met with coaches. We never asked for an OV and later learned that OVs are used to bring the recruiting class together for a group visit during senior year.
Regarding timing... I'm sure it's all over the map. One coach who told son to take whatever time he needed to get comfortable with things (several months it turned out). Another coach told him during rising senior summer that time is pressing and he needs to move on if son didn't want to accept so please let him know within a week. Since this was late in the process and he knew what he wanted this was not unreasonable.
I was in the meetings with son when offers were presented (really glad I was since they aren't always straight forward). The only questions I asked related to admissions support (what does "support" really mean at an Ivy and how rock solid is his track record), and at a non-P5 D1 what happens to the scholarship offer after year one. I was glad I asked because the coach not only promised to at least match the first year offer in subsequent years, he offered a 5th year if my son needed it.
What is a reasonable time to evaluate an offer? - Reasonable should be spelled out by the offeror. I've seen offers with no time limit, and I've seen 72 hour offers. It depends.
What if an offer comes after a camp or showcase but without an "official" visit? Is it reasonable to request an official visit? - It is more than reasonable to request an official or unofficial visit depending on the date, time line, and availability of official visit slots. Unofficial visits are more likely since most offers happen before the NCAA imposed official visit dates.
What is the role of parent here? Should all contact be through HS/Club coach and son or is it appropriate for me to want to meet the coach and ask questions about the program myself directly before accepting an offer - Honestly, I think the parent becomes the "backseat voice of reason". I listened to my son make his business case for his selection among some really good schools. Since some of it was family money with two younger brothers behind him, I wanted to be sure it was the best choice based on his logic and reasoning. I also wanted to be sure he would be able to pay off his student loan in a short period of time. It is appropriate for the parent to meet with Financial Aid and/or to talk to the Coach about scholarship dollars. Let your son handle everything else baseball related, because in a few months he will be doing exactly that.
JMO, and good luck!
I think it is very reasonable to talk to the coach. It is also reasonable to have a visit. The tricky part is age. If your son is young, it may not be an athletic visit, but your son should see the school. A lot of programs have developed work around a so you can see the facilities as well. Two of the coaches that offered my son over the phone asked to set up a call to talk to us. I think it makes everyone more comfortable to know you are all on the same page.
Thank you. It was the schools own camp so he has met the whole staff including head coach, and he did a self tour of the campus as there were no official tours being held. Any financial offer would be academic as we were informed prior to attending camp that all 2019 scholarship money has been allocated but it is a school he would like to play at and would be happy to attend even if he didn't get to play ball. Just wasn't sure what my role was in the process. Don't want to over step and give the coach a bad impression but also think I should be involved in the final decision as its my money paying for the rest.
My middle son committed to a school he had never attended. (I don't recommend it) It was a military school and he had no clue what he was committing to but was positive that was where he wanted to be. His travel catcher was going there and the coaches recruited him hard and heavy. He did tell my youngest that he would not let him go there under any circumstances and that had nothing to do with baseball and all to do with the way the school was run and his bad experience.
With my youngest son, we had known the HC for several years because he had recruited him for another school where he was RC. He invited us for a visit to campus and then the new PC came and watched him pitch at 1 in the morning at WWBA. The offer was presented over the phone and I was in the car with the phone on speaker through the radio. I actually was videoing the offer to use as a teaching tool for my son on talking to coaches when it came, we did not know it was a call for an offer. So we have it on video. I will definitely be the one dealing with financial aid and have been working on admissions. Coach was very unfront on offer and what it included and didn't include. His is an amount and not a percentage, even though I reckon it is some percent.
Fenway, I love the "backseat voice of reason." - that is perfect.
Reasonable time to evaluate offer? Easy one, if it's where he wants to go to school and play ball, a quick answer is fine. If you need to mull it over or are making a decision on multiple offers, my opinion is 30 days is reasonable because those coaches are going to need to fill that slot with a guy as high as they can get on their board. Time is money...and it also depends on where you are in the recruiting cycle. D1s want to have their classes locked up late summer/early fall of that class' senior year in HS typically. There are always late adds, but that is the exception usually. If your kid is not a rising senior when they get their offer, they may and probably will give them more time to make that decision.
As a voice of reason, you need to keep the kid focused on the goal. If it's a college education, then make sure the school is going to meet their wants and needs. If it is to continue developing for a draft possibility out of college, same applies. But most of all, make sure the kid is going to a school where they are going to have a reasonable assurance of success. That doesn't mean they shouldn't challenge themselves, but they should be recruited at the right school, in the right conference that their skillset mirrors. I know a kid that (and who knows, they may get there and finally figure it out) is a P5 commit that nobody sees ever getting on the field. Probably a walk-on offer and no scholarship dollars at risk. If he pans out in his freshman fall, it will defy the odds in most opinions. That is likely not what you want for your kid.
My son received his offer after an unofficial visit. Hopefully they bring their rather small recruiting class in for an official visit this fall, would be nice, but certainly not a requirement for us or them. I think most D1 schools do bring their recruiting class in for a fall official visit.
I have only spoken to my son's college coaching staff on our unofficial visit, and I was mostly listening and trying to do a Vulcan Mind Meld to determine if these guys were going to be the guys to help shape my son over the next few years. My son does all the communication with coaches, has the entire recruiting process and is very comfortable doing so. As parents, we sometimes think our boys aren't capable of doing it, or asking the right questions. Arm them with a list of questions YOU want answers to in order to help them, but let them ask those of the staff.
My next evolution as a baseball dad is to write more tuition checks and to enjoy the games. This process is frustrating beyond belief if you aren't a blue chip player...but once you get that commitment (and NLI) and they end up on campus, you can breathe a little easier.
PitchingFan posted:Coach was very unfront on offer and what it included and didn't include. His is an amount and not a percentage, even though I reckon it is some percent.
There was a discussion about this a while back. Most offers are made in dollar amounts not percentages. I know when I ran track in college back in the 80s/90s everything was discussed in terms of dollars, I don't ever recall talking to a coach, or a teammate about percentages. I think most folks convert dollars to percentages just to make the conversations to others easier as well as mask the actual amount
My 2 cents, what I did. Look at the financial side of the offer, look at the financial risk* of the offer, look for red flags. Then tell son the school qualifies with me or not. Then talk son through the decision making process. Pro's / con's of this school, P / C of accepting offer, countering offer, waiting for other offers, possibly going to a JUCO or just waiting. Talk through the whole list of things I learned from this board, reading other materials and talking to others. Coaching changes, rosters, weather, distance, on and on.
Then, if he decides he will accept the offer, go through the process of communication. ie, accept. Call coaches from other schools that offered right away so they hear it from him and not twitter. Call VIP travel coaches, etc and thank them personally. Then post on twitter/social media "Blessed to ...."
In our case, I have a budget that I would spend for four years of college. So if he wanted to go out of state, he needed to hit a pretty high percentage scholarship. Or if he went to one year of JUCO and transferred, a little less. Or two years, even less.
*Financial risk. A nearby state has a program where if you have a certain HS GPA and SAT test score, out of state tuition is greatly reduced. Sounds great. It could be. However, if you don't maintain a B average once you get to the school, you lose the waiver. So the financial risk could be $16K if son doesn't hold his college GPA to a certain level. Academic monies, etc.
We both knew at the end of the day, there is only so much information that is known about the future. A big decision will be made with imperfect information. Just like the rest of life.
To answer the original questions.
Yes. You should meet with the coach and go on the school tours. Let son arrange the visit itself but once you're there feel free to ask questions about the school and the program. But try to let the kid do the talking. See if the school is fully funded and see what the scholarship covers. Is it tuition, tuition/board, tuition/board/books/etc? I also wouldn't ask for an official visit as they are reserved for committed seniors right before signing day
As for the time. I would say a week is fair. If it takes more than a week to decide, how interested were you in the school in the first place? Research the school and the program beforehand. Ask questions once you get there. And make sure it is a school your son would want to go to before the visit. No need to visit a school you have no interest in just for an offer. "Thank you for the offer, if it is okay with you I would like to take a week or so to go over the decision with my family." 30 days or more just shows the coach you're not crazy about the school and looking for a better offer.
Hs and travel coaches are great but they're just a foot in the door. Once they've created interest and helped arrange contact they've done their job. Good luck
joes87 posted:PitchingFan posted:Coach was very unfront on offer and what it included and didn't include. His is an amount and not a percentage, even though I reckon it is some percent.
There was a discussion about this a while back. Most offers are made in dollar amounts not percentages. I know when I ran track in college back in the 80s/90s everything was discussed in terms of dollars, I don't ever recall talking to a coach, or a teammate about percentages. I think most folks convert dollars to percentages just to make the conversations to others easier as well as mask the actual amount
My son's offers were all percentages. One coach even mentioned that the cost goes up almost every year and guessed what tuition might be when my son got there, and he told us what percentage they would pay.
I'm also surprised that a week seems reasonable to some. Unless it was your dream school, it is a big decision. A week is pretty fast and I wouldn't think a school would ask a kid to decide that quickly, but maybe I'm wrong.
I was talking about it from the coach's perspective. A week or two is more than reasonable. If they told us we needed an answer right then we would've walked. If it takes longer than a couple weeks they can probably assume you're still hunting for a better offer.
In 2019s case the schools that knew they were reaching in terms of the talent gave him all the time he needed. But the higher profile schools said 7-10 days or we're going to offer the next in line. Wanted him sure, but they could find somebody else just as good in one hour at lake point.
Middle son got 24 hours at his #1. Couldn't afford it. They told him they had 5 guys for one spot left and he was #1 but there were 4 others. Hardest thing to say no to. Youngest son had no pressure until the end of the summer and coach just asked how much more time he needed. Was given 2 months. I had a friend's son who was at WWBA and his #1 school, P5, made him offer and gave him until the end of the day. RC said you were our #3 guy before that outing and now we want to make you X offer. Let me know by midnight, I'm watching #1 guy tomorrow morning and if I don't hear from you we will probably offer that spot to him. Lot of pressure on teenage kids (and parents). I tell everybody you need to know what it will take when you go to a school or begin conversation. You never know when they will offer and what expiration they will put on it. it's like going to buy a car. You need to know what you want and what you are willing to pay.
So my 2020 just received an offer from a school on his short list. We plan on accepting. I know that this is non-binding until he can sign an NLI, so will anything be put into writing before that?
Would it be appropriate for me to send an email summarizing my understanding? (I've found that applying common business practices to the baseball world doesn't always work.)
I don’t know that you will get that, I think it is appropriate to ask for a phone call with the coach to go over things but I don’t know that you’ll get anything in writing. We never saw anything in writing
With my daughter's volleyball offer we did not put anything in writing before the NLI arrived. I would have liked to of course, but it didn't "feel" right - if you know what I mean? So we just waited in good faith for the NLI, and it was consistent with the verbal offer. An email may not be perceived in the way intended and probably is out of the ordinary. On its face it seems very legitimate, fair and reasonable, but it just may not be received well by the Coach b/c it is out of the ordinary? Until someone wiser advises that it is acceptable practice, I would not do it - instead, have your son keep in touch and wait for that NLI. Maybe that is too passive but I think it is the norm?
It is my understanding that nothing gets put in writing until NLI and the financial agreement. Email is in writing and most likely will result in nothing written. If a coach offers, and all things stay the same, most follow through for the NLI & FA.
GaryMe posted:Fenway, I love the "backseat voice of reason." - that is perfect.
Reasonable time to evaluate offer? Easy one, if it's where he wants to go to school and play ball, a quick answer is fine. If you need to mull it over or are making a decision on multiple offers, my opinion is 30 days is reasonable because those coaches are going to need to fill that slot with a guy as high as they can get on their board. Time is money...and it also depends on where you are in the recruiting cycle. D1s want to have their classes locked up late summer/early fall of that class' senior year in HS typically. There are always late adds, but that is the exception usually. If your kid is not a rising senior when they get their offer, they may and probably will give them more time to make that decision.
As a voice of reason, you need to keep the kid focused on the goal. If it's a college education, then make sure the school is going to meet their wants and needs. If it is to continue developing for a draft possibility out of college, same applies. But most of all, make sure the kid is going to a school where they are going to have a reasonable assurance of success. That doesn't mean they shouldn't challenge themselves, but they should be recruited at the right school, in the right conference that their skillset mirrors. I know a kid that (and who knows, they may get there and finally figure it out) is a P5 commit that nobody sees ever getting on the field. Probably a walk-on offer and no scholarship dollars at risk. If he pans out in his freshman fall, it will defy the odds in most opinions. That is likely not what you want for your kid.
My son received his offer after an unofficial visit. Hopefully they bring their rather small recruiting class in for an official visit this fall, would be nice, but certainly not a requirement for us or them. I think most D1 schools do bring their recruiting class in for a fall official visit.
I have only spoken to my son's college coaching staff on our unofficial visit, and I was mostly listening and trying to do a Vulcan Mind Meld to determine if these guys were going to be the guys to help shape my son over the next few years. My son does all the communication with coaches, has the entire recruiting process and is very comfortable doing so. As parents, we sometimes think our boys aren't capable of doing it, or asking the right questions. Arm them with a list of questions YOU want answers to in order to help them, but let them ask those of the staff.
My next evolution as a baseball dad is to write more tuition checks and to enjoy the games. This process is frustrating beyond belief if you aren't a blue chip player...but once you get that commitment (and NLI) and they end up on campus, you can breathe a little easier.
I believe this is where a lot of kids go wrong. Getting an offer and accepting is just an opportunity. The challenge is still on and it gets harder. It’s harder for the player to prove he belongs in the program than it is to get the offer. Half the players each year fail to prove they belong in the program.
Some great responses in my opinion. Love Fenways comments and RJ it the nail on the head in his last post concerning that issue. Every situation is different. A reasonable time frame is what the coaching staff decides is reasonable to them. In some cases you may have a lot of time to decide. In other cases it needs to be made rather quickly. This all depends on what the coaching staff needs to do. If your son is a guy they feel they really have to have that time frame may be extended a great deal. If your son is in the mix with some other guys and they don't want to get left hanging they may give you a short period of time to decide. There are all kinds of reasons and ways this is played on their part.
Once your son signs that NLI or even commits yes you can put that part behind you and breathe a little easier about that part of the process. But believe me that will be short lived. A whole new set of adventures awaits your son and you of course as the parent. Good luck
