At least 2 colleges now in PA have canceled their 2021 season after having their 2020 season wiped out by the pandemic.
What's the impact on a program not playing baseball for 2 straight seasons?
And is this just a Pennsylvania thing?
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Chances are the college is losing money on baseball. It made a safe, cowering, early decision. The next step will be dropping the program.
If I’m a coach at a college that decided not to play for two years I wouldn’t feel very secure about my job. I would be looking for a new one. Once the program doesn’t have a coach and can only hire an inexperienced, risky choice dumping the program is an easy next decision.
I’ll bet across the various levels there will be at least one hundred less college baseball programs by 2023.
Wow, that's dire. What is going to happen to these players and the incoming recruiting class? When did flattening the curve become ZERO risk tolerance at all? Do these schools know something we don't?
A huge loss in the number of programs has been widely predicted by many that are involved in operating college baseball. If I was looking for a place to play anytime from now going forward I would want to give careful consideration (at any school) to the financial stability of both the athletic department and the school in general. If a school shows a hard trend towards virtual learning I would see that as a red flag. If student enrollment were to drop sharply (resulting in loss of tuition) I would view that as a warning sign as well. Proven, stable coaches leaving a program without incident would be another cause for concern. So IMO the recruiting road has gotten much trickier to navigate. If I was presented with an acceptable option I would not hesitate to accept quickly, assuming the school passes muster. Only the top stud recruits will have the kind of options people are accustomed to seeing. Everyone else will not be so fortunate. I talked to coaches at 3 different schools last night and ALL 3 said they don’t need any more players and can’t even imagine bringing in another recruiting class - they can’t manage the number of players they already have.
Bloomsburg 2019
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California (PA) 2019
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Francis, have you read the news the last eight months? 
Colleges across the country (and beyond) are taking a huge hit with Covid. Pressure to reduce tuition due to less in-person classes, further lack of differentiation from competitors, diminished "experience" for students, added costs to implement Covid guidelines, related issues and concerns with employees, inability to roll out sports and other extracurricular programs and on and on.
I don't think there is any university in the country that isn't feeling the financial pain and looking to evaluate how to address the shortcomings. There will be casualties. Some colleges and universities will close all together. Some will drop some sports programs (and/or other extracurriculars). Some schools will look further out than just the next few months, knowing they will have to have answers for their nervous board members. Some are more financially set to weather the storm more than others. Many were in tenuous positions before Covid.
An added element to the recruiting process will now be evaluation of the financial viability of the college as well as analysis of the likelihood of continuation of the sport one participates in. You will hate this part - it won't be easy to determine and even if you do thorough research, there will be surprises.
Clarion 2019
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East Stroudsburg 2019
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Gannon 2019
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Indiana (PA)
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Kutztown 2019
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Lock Haven 2019
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Mansfield 2019
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Mercyhurst 2019
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Millersville 2019
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Pitt-Johnstown 2019
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@cabbagedad posted:Francis, have you read the news the last eight months?
I don't think there is any university in the country that isn't feeling the financial pain and looking to evaluate how to address the shortcomings. There will be casualties. Some colleges and universities will close all together. Some will drop some sports programs (and/or other extracurriculars). Some schools will look further out than just the next few months, knowing they will have to have answers for their nervous board members. Some are more financially set to weather the storm more than others. Many were in tenuous positions before Covid.
An added element to the recruiting process will now be evaluation of the financial viability of the college as well as analysis of the likelihood of continuation of the sport one participates in. You will hate this part - it won't be easy to determine and even if you do thorough research, there will be surprises.
I agree with your points, there will be surprises, which IMHO is like finding out about somebody getting a surprise birthday party.
You know your DOB, you know every year that you have a birthday, the decision to provide you a surprise birthday party is to hold back pertinent information about the party.
With respects to financial viability, it depends on what is considered thorough research, what is available to the public vs what is agreed upon in private.
As we always say "Follow the Money".
Seton Hill 2019
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Shepherd 2019
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Shippenburg 2019
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Slippery Rock 2019
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West Chester 2019
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Absolutely cowering, gutless decision to be cancelling spring sports right now, or any sports in general. Find a way to make it happen. Education and collegiate athletics is supposed to be doing what is best for the kids right? If I'm at those schools then I'm looking to get out ASAP.
This past spring I posted about potential recruits needing to discuss with schools about their plans for this year and next, and was laughed at. This is why. You're going to have cowards and leaders now who are either going to bail because of political and financial decisions, or ones that step up and do what is best for kids.
@Francis7 posted:At least 2 colleges now in PA have canceled their 2021 season after having their 2020 season wiped out by the pandemic.
What's the impact on a program not playing baseball for 2 straight seasons?
And is this just a Pennsylvania thing?
@Francis7 A lot of graphs, Too many PSAC schools. We might be able to figure out how the dominoes will fall for 2021.
Maybe information at the conference level will help.
@James G posted:Absolutely cowering, gutless decision to be cancelling spring sports right now, or any sports in general. Find a way to make it happen. Education and collegiate athletics is supposed to be doing what is best for the kids right? If I'm at those schools then I'm looking to get out ASAP.
This past spring I posted about potential recruits needing to discuss with schools about their plans for this year and next, and was laughed at. This is why. You're going to have cowards and leaders now who are either going to bail because of political and financial decisions, or ones that step up and do what is best for kids.
@James G IMHO, you answered your own question, they are not kids anymore. They are transitioning to adulthood.
@cabbagedad posted:Francis, have you read the news the last eight months?
I don't think there is any university in the country that isn't feeling the financial pain and looking to evaluate how to address the shortcomings. There will be casualties. Some colleges and universities will close all together. Some will drop some sports programs (and/or other extracurriculars). Some schools will look further out than just the next few months, knowing they will have to have answers for their nervous board members. Some are more financially set to weather the storm more than others. Many were in tenuous positions before Covid.
An added element to the recruiting process will now be evaluation of the financial viability of the college as well as analysis of the likelihood of continuation of the sport one participates in. You will hate this part - it won't be easy to determine and even if you do thorough research, there will be surprises.
Occidental in the SCIAC just dropped their football program yesterday. Not entirely surprising as the football program there was having issues as it was. Supposedly no other varsity sports will be effected.
@CollegebaseballInsights yes they are transitioning to adulthood. Maybe calling kids isn't correct. I guess my belief is that whether you're a kid or an 18-22 year old, if you're a student then the goal of educational institutions (and athletics) is to provide opportunities for kids in their best interest, period. Bailing on them and cowering to fear by cancelling seasons months ahead is doing the opposite of what many of their mission statements say.
What is going on? At smaller schools, athletes make up a large percentage of the student body, often in the 20-25% range. These schools don't make any money off these programs. So why even have them? Because they bring 40-50 bodies of private school tuition to the school, where all the students are often required to live on campus for four year and get meal plans as well. Do the math.
So rather than cancelling sports, they decided to bring all the athletes back under the idea that once Covid blew over they would resume. And rather than bringing it back they said why create expenses, the students are already here and paid in full.
I was talking to a coach who told me he only had one assistant coach. I asked how he made that work, he said it didn't, but he wasn't there to win a championship, he was there to make sure the roster stayed above 40 every year and if by some miracle he could make it work with two coaches he could easily get a promotion elsewhere. His goal wasn't to win games, it was to bring in 1.5 million in tuition against a 200k dollar budget.
Want to feel sick to your stomach? I see people feeling bad for colleges because of the financial hit they're taking. It makes you think, sure enrollment is down a bit, but these colleges don't have to provide anything either. Don't have to pay non-faculty, don't have to provide anything to students. So how are they losing money? They can't charge 15k for students to eat and live in the dorms. They're losing money because they can't rip people off. It's all a joke.
I've tried to stay out of these types of threads ever since getting dragged down a rabbit hole back in March.
The answer is easy = MONEY
Just ask someone in the general population to name a college athletic program that plays in PA. Guarantee you'll get Penn State Football program as the number 1 answer (close 2nd is Villanova Basketball program with it's recent success). My point is, when the program is costing the University money it's not hard to understand why it is cut. Take a bunch of administrators (and bean counters) who have no real vested interest in a sport costing them money, and then mix in financial uncertainty with a dash of heated politics and you get the headline
La Salle is cutting seven sports to better align with comparable athletic programs
My wife works in the college arena, on the business side supporting students. They are predicting the potential 25%-30% of colleges going bankrupt. This is absolutely about money, no matter what their endowment looks like. They are businesses run like a business and if income goes down, which has happened, schools will close down.
More and more students are choosing to go online for their education. The largest college, with a student population of over 130,000 is an online school. Students can learn at their own pace, when they want. They can binge learn just like they binge watch. It is no longer going to be a 4 year degree, but a degree. The days of expensive 4 year liberal arts schools are feeling the effect and a large percentage will go away.
Not saying that the big guys(Stanford, Harvard, Yale ,etc) will go away. There will always be room for the elite to still educate that way. However, the days where kids go to a 4 year school at very high costs, incur large debut from loans and come out with an unmarketable degree are coming to an end.
Yes, this will have an effect on sports programs. That's what your seeing in PA right now. Think about all the HS programs that cut programs like Music, Arts & other programs due to cost cutting. The same thing is going to happen at the college level, especially state schools. It may not happen all at once, but it's coming. Most in the academic world really dislike sports programs. They love the money some sports bring in, but overall they dislike that student athletes, whom they feel get favoritism over others. I remember when a professor told my student athlete son, that he has never had one of athlete students pass his class and that he should consider transferring. True story.
Anyway, big changes coming and Covid seems to be the trigger for this happening. College has become a booming business and the bubble had to break sometime.
JMO
I am so sorry that this is happening. They predicted a 3rd wave and it's happening right now and it's not good in some states. They even have people that had been over the virus, now sic again. Could be that it's mutated? Or they never got over it, which seems to be an issue for a lot of people.
And I don't want to hear about fear mongering. It is what it is right now and different for everyone depending on who you are and where you live.
It is absolutely about money. ABSOLUTELY. The biggest profits for many schools come from room and board and food services such as meal plans and vendors who pay millions for their logo and product to be in the student unions. Tuition is minimal in some state universities. Online classes and staying at home is really hurting so many schools.
Trying to run athletic programs and keeping staff and students safe is a very difficult task. It's just not about following CDC guidelines.
I know some folks who will not like what I am going to say. Don't ever compromise an education for playing a sport.
Transfering really is not a great option right now, even with an unlimited roster at D1 programs, players are being cut.
Sorry, but that's my opinion. I understand that you all are mad, I would be too. But that will not change anything at this point in time. The biggest concern should be keeping your family safe.
@Picked Off posted:My wife works in the college arena, on the business side supporting students....
Not saying that the big guys(Stanford, Harvard, Yale ,etc) will go away. There will always be room for the elite to still educate that way. ...
Wait 'til I tell Nancy you didn't include USC in your examples of "the big guys/the elite" 
There are some spikes in cases, but there is not a spike in deaths. The same thing has happened in countries that are farther along. It is a casedemic, but looking at a graph, with the new spikes in cases, the deaths are stable. In the college community, the statistics are great. That is what they should be looking at if they want to stay in business. If they don't, they brought it on themselves.
@baseballhs posted:There are some spikes in cases, but there is not a spike in deaths. The same thing has happened in countries that are farther along. It is a casedemic, but looking at a graph, with the new spikes in cases, the deaths are stable. In the college community, the statistics are great. That is what they should be looking at if they want to stay in business. If they don't, they brought it on themselves.
DING DING DING
@baseballhs posted:There are some spikes in cases, but there is not a spike in deaths. The same thing has happened in countries that are farther along. It is a casedemic, but looking at a graph, with the new spikes in cases, the deaths are stable. In the college community, the statistics are great. That is what they should be looking at if they want to stay in business. If they don't, they brought it on themselves.
Your last 2 sentences are right on. If they had let teams at least practice, they would have worked out the kinks for next spring.
You also have to have the capability to test on a regular basis. One positive can make every player sick.
Deaths will be down because they now know who is most vulnerable.
But that's water under the bridge right now.
@James G posted:@CollegebaseballInsights yes they are transitioning to adulthood. Maybe calling kids isn't correct. I guess my belief is that whether you're a kid or an 18-22 year old, if you're a student then the goal of educational institutions (and athletics) is to provide opportunities for kids in their best interest, period. Bailing on them and cowering to fear by cancelling seasons months ahead is doing the opposite of what many of their mission statements say.
@James G As you understand, it is all about budgets and financial planning. As stated throughout the thread, follow the money or lack thereof.
State schools would need some relief from the state government, the state government needs relief from federal government
Note, I have not read the details of the bill passed by the House of Reps 4 months ago, but we understand, currently the bill is going nowhere.
Note, the Senate does not want to provide relief to Democratic run states.
Currently, PA has a Democratic governor.
@TPM posted:Your last 2 sentences are right on. If they had let teams at least practice, they would have worked out the kinks for next spring.
You also have to have the capability to test on a regular basis. One positive can make every player sick.
Deaths will be down because they now know who is most vulnerable.
But that's water under the bridge right now.
@tpm In a subtle way, the United States is executing Herd Immunity. Watch out for the person who currently has the ear of POTUS.
Many of the smaller D3 in PA will close the doors without athletes, for them cancel seasonS is close to suicidal IMO
@PABaseball posted:What is going on? At smaller schools, athletes make up a large percentage of the student body, often in the 20-25% range. These schools don't make any money off these programs. So why even have them? Because they bring 40-50 bodies of private school tuition to the school, where all the students are often required to live on campus for four year and get meal plans as well. Do the math.
So rather than cancelling sports, they decided to bring all the athletes back under the idea that once Covid blew over they would resume. And rather than bringing it back they said why create expenses, the students are already here and paid in full.
I was talking to a coach who told me he only had one assistant coach. I asked how he made that work, he said it didn't, but he wasn't there to win a championship, he was there to make sure the roster stayed above 40 every year and if by some miracle he could make it work with two coaches he could easily get a promotion elsewhere. His goal wasn't to win games, it was to bring in 1.5 million in tuition against a 200k dollar budget.
Want to feel sick to your stomach? I see people feeling bad for colleges because of the financial hit they're taking. It makes you think, sure enrollment is down a bit, but these colleges don't have to provide anything either. Don't have to pay non-faculty, don't have to provide anything to students. So how are they losing money? They can't charge 15k for students to eat and live in the dorms. They're losing money because they can't rip people off. It's all a joke.
@PABaseball thanks for your insight.
Simply stated, there are different strategic objectives for private vs public institutions
In the PSAC, 3 out of 17 are Private non profit.
Gannon
Mercyhurst
Seton Hill
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