What separates players who are drafted?

Once you get past the obvious selections, mental approach, baseball savvy and personal conduct (how they carry themselves in pregame and the game) can make the difference. A player should assume he's being watched from the time he gets off the bus and/or comes out of the locker room. A coach may place a positive comment with a scout as to what kind of person the player is in the locker room and the dugout.

The five tools gets you qualified, the projection, attitude, hustle, team work, personal makeup, sometimes parents are dis-qualifiers!

You really need to have the skills to get looked at and drafted, but if you lack the intangibles, scouts will walk away.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Once you get past the obvious selections, mental approach, baseball savvy and personal conduct (how they carry themselves in pregame and the game) can make the difference. A player should assume he's being watched from the time he gets off the bus and/or comes out of the locker room. A coach may place a positive comment with a scout as to what kind of person the player is in the locker room and the dugout.

Hate be cynical, but the importance of off-field personal conduct in the draft actually is in direct proportion to talent level. I won't name names but you don't need to google very much to verify how little conduct or appearance actually matters in the draft. Bad behavior rarely seems to even cost players any money, other than attorney fees.

The upper rounds of fhe draft are liberally sprinkled with felons.

that is a great question. with about 1500 kids drafted every year,you wonder how they do it. not to mention the international kids who sign.

but i agree with dad04 off field things aren't huge if your a player.

At rounds 20-30, I don’t think they will be as forgiving. You are right if you are a total stud, they may tolerate more....but if the talents are the same, who do you think they will take a chance on?

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
I am trying to find out what separates players who get drafted from players who do not.

This is just my opinion, besides having ability and tools, some players are drafted with the team hopes of being future ML players, some players are drafted to fill in the holes for milb and then given an opportunity to prove themselves to do more.
A player I know was drafted in the 45th round a few years back, now I see he was just moved to the 40 man roster. That may not mean he will get to MLB but it does mean the team he is on has future plans for him.

Some players don't get drafted because they can't fully commit, some want more money than they are worth at the time. I don't think it's really anything that is easy to understand, why some get drafted and why some do not.

I do agree with Dad04, talent will prevail over any player that has off the field issues. Tean know that a lot has to do with just being a kid and growing up.

besides talent you need exposure

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Once you get past the obvious selections, mental approach, baseball savvy and personal conduct (how they carry themselves in pregame and the game) can make the difference. A player should assume he's being watched from the time he gets off the bus and/or comes out of the locker room. A coach may place a positive comment with a scout as to what kind of person the player is in the locker room and the dugout.

Hate be cynical, but the importance of off-field personal conduct in the draft actually is in direct proportion to talent level. I won't name names but you don't need to google very much to verify how little conduct or appearance actually matters in the draft. Bad behavior rarely seems to even cost players any money, other than attorney fees.

The upper rounds of fhe draft are liberally sprinkled with felons.

Exactly why I started my response with "Once you get past the obvious selections ...." In rounds 30-50 there's enough gray area on talent/potential to bother with character issues.

Makeup is very important, but to MLB clubs it’s only important when a player has enough talent.

Each year there are thousands of super kids with remarkable work ethic and great character who do not get drafted. A few do get drafted as “organizational” players.

There have been some bad makeup types who have slipped a lot lower than their talent dictated they go in the draft.

The biggest problem is that most people do not understand exactly what championship caliber or plus makeup is. The type of makeup they are looking for is the type that will allow the player to reach and succeed at the major league level. They are not looking for a bunch of nice choir boys.

Another strange thing regarding makeup… One club might think a certain player has makeup problems while another club might think the same player has great makeup. Everyone does not have the same definition as to what great makeup is.

We need to remember who some of the greatest players ever and some of the greatest teams in history were. Lots of players that most people would have a hard time describing that type of makeup in a positive way.

This all led to one of baseball’s most famous sayings, I think by Leo Durocher… “Nice guys finish last” Just for the record, I’ve never believed in that statement even a little bit. Our prisons are full of not so nice guys and that is even worse than being in last place. And of course, we all know, there have been many champions who are also nice guys. Just real talented nice guys!

BTW, usually the "obvious" selections end after about 5 or 10 picks. Every year there are players drafted in the first round that were not so obvious.
When a player is drafted in the later rounds, its still with the hopes that the player ends up helping the Big League club. This has actually happened many times. So they're still looking for talent above all else.

Thanks for all the opinions and info. What I can assume from what has been written so far is that talent is obviously the most important followed by game savvy, attitudeand work ethic.
If a 17 yo can throw 90-95 mph, hit the ball almost 400 ft or run at whatever the magic number is, does this get the attention of the scouts and then they look at the other factors?
Thanks for the feedback. I love this website!!

There are kids who have tools and get drafted. Then, there are kids with tools who don't get drafted. Those who get drafted are those who show the tools at game speed.

Baseball, compared to other sports like football or basketball, requires greater management of adrenaline. A player needs to be quick and explosive, but in a more controlled, managed way.

Great speech in Any Given Sunday by Pacino -Game of Inches. He says "Life's this game of inches...the margin of error is so small...one half a step too late or too early, and you don't quite make it...one half second too slow or too fast and you don't quite catch it...the inches we need are everywhere around us...they're in every break of the game, in every minute and every second...those inches are the difference between winning and losing".

So, those players that have the mental makeup to arrive at speed and on time while maintaining form are those who will perform at the highest level.

So, for me, the player who has the ability to remain calm, confident and be explosive has the mental makeup necessary.

quote:

Thanks for all the opinions and info. What I can assume from what has been written so far is that talent is obviously the most important followed by game savvy, attitudeand work ethic.
If a 17 yo can throw 90-95 mph, hit the ball almost 400 ft or run at whatever the magic number is, does this get the attention of the scouts and then they look at the other factors?
Thanks for the feedback. I love this website!!

fillsfan,

Yes, that will definetly get the attention of scouts and then they will look closer at everything else. Talent and tools are still and have always been #1.

I agree with "cheeseattheknees" when he talks about the tools being usable or shows tools at game speed. For example running speed can be great, but its much better if the speed is usable on the bases. However, if a player has excellent tools and scouts know who he is, he will be a draft prospect. They would rather have the guy with MLB tools and teach him the rest, than have a guy who has everything else except lacks the neccessary tools.

I relate it to a hitter who jumps out because he doesn't have the ability to manage his adrenaline, or, because he doesn't trust how quick he really is. He's the guy who puts on the power display during BP, then struggles at game time.

Or, the pitcher who rushes forward and the arm lags causing him to be out of synch. Yet, in a bullpen session, everything is impressive.

Those with tools and the ability to manage to manage their adrenaline and/or anxiety are the special ones.

Cheese,

Excellent points, to add something else to what you've mentioned...

quote by cheeseattheknees

quote:

Those who get drafted are those who show the tools at game speed.

The game changes speed at every level. You have to "project" or predict if a player has the ability and makeup to make the adjustments all the way to the top. Game speed can be very different and it's always somewhat of a prediction, in most cases, whether or not someone will be able to play at Major League "game speed". That is where the tools are important... in making a good prediction.

Everyone likes to see players compete against the best possible competition. That helps answer a lot of questions. It's also the reason many high school and some college players don't succeed at the professional level. For example, when you see a player hit with wood against good 90+ or quality breaking balls it means much more than hitting against average high school pitching.

BTW, just to be clear... I'm very big on good kids! To me that is much more important than being a good baseball player. Just trying to give an honest opinion to the original question.

Here's another old scouting saying...

"Tools get you drafted, but makeup gets you to the Big Leagues"

Some players even change their makeup (as I relate it) depending on the situation.

How many times do you see a MLB player succeed on a small market team. Then go to NY or Boston, and crumble under the pressure of the big markets. They return to the small market, and BAM, they're good again.

Other players thrive in the big moment. They control the adrenaline....slow the game down.

Yes, it is crazy! Should give people an idea of just how difficult (unscientific) scouting can be sometimes. Finding the raw physical talent is the easiest part. Some just can't make the neccessary adjustments while others can for some reason. Some thrive on the big stage while others don't.

Scott Kazmir always impressed me as a big game kid who would be at his best in the 7th game of a World Series. Hope he gets that chance someday.

Cheese, I've really enjoyed reading your great thoughts on this topic. Hope you stick around for a long time.

Yes, thanks Cheeseattheknees. Your posts are very informative and helpful. Please stay awhile.

a little off topic but cheesesatheknees made me think of an article writen about josh hamilton. it kind of high lighted his rookie season. when he reached either AA or AAA, he was playing in front of 4 or 5 thousand people. and they were ragging on him about his signing bonus and he wasn't worth the money etc.


i don't know how you ready your self for that situation? fans can be brutal, it must be tough for young players to take. along with the fact at some point they are going to struggle at a level. things you can't really practice for but are there. i guess it's all part of the master plan.

Cheeseattheknees and PGStaff make alot of sense. A players has to show his tools in game situations. When top notch tools are shown against top notch competition is when a player is noticed and subsequently drafted. Basically what your saying is playing well under pressure is a huge indicator for scouts.
On the Perfect Game website there is a video clip of Scott Kazmir throwing some nasty fastballs and sliders at a major tournament. Thats what you guys are talking about and thats why he was drafted in the first round. Thanks again.

I was talking to a former ml player last hs season before one of my games. We were talking about players and the whole process of making it to the "show". He said this "Some guys are not sure if they belong in the show or not. The ones that make it know they belong."

Just thought I would throw that out here in this discussion. Ive seen guys that were tremendously talented. But when they were on a big stage they never really performed at the level they were capable of performing at. Then I have seen kids that were talented but not as talented as some other kids. But everytime they were put in a big situation or on a big stage they played their best. Is Pedroia that good? Or is he the kind of guy that plays with a chip on his shoulder and the big stage is where he will shine? I know he is good. But is he even better on the big stage? Just like some guys are day in and day out very good players. But on the big stage do live up to expectations.

Is that also known as the "it Factor"? Some just have what it takes to be successful. I was listening to the XM Rob Dibble show and they were speaking of the "it" factor. I guess we also call it "makeup",a "gamer", the player who always seems to do better in a game then he does during practice. I think cheeseattheknees called it "controled adreneline". But the tools have to be there first as everyone has already said. But once you get the opportunity, the "it factor", the "makeup" or the "gamer" within the player get you to the next level. Joe Dimaggio I believe said: "some people are just born to play baseball".

At some level, they are all talented. Some more than others. But, the 25th player on the MLB roster, his worst day (skillwise) is better than the best day for which some of us could hope.

What sets them apart from the rest of us, is the consistency with which they accomplish their task. Watch them practice. The 25th guy's BP is amazingly consistent. He may not stroke like, say, Bonds. But, within his toolset, it is consistent.

What sets them apart from each other are the level of physical tools and, then, within guys of similar tool sets, the mental makeup. Those with the calm, confident explosiveness (again, comparing within same toolset) will succeed.

The ability to slow the game down, while the other guy's world is swirling around him. To me, that's what separates guys within the same toolset. That's the difference between moving up and be left behind.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Here's another old scouting saying...

"Tools get you drafted, but makeup gets you to the Big Leagues"

On the series The Show** the D'backs GM said with how hard it is to get to the majors, the biggest disappointment are the kids with the tools who blow it with lack of mental makeup.

Casey Daigle has been up and down with the D'backs in 2004 & 2006. Daigle said he wasn't emotionally and mentally mature enough to stick. Anyone who has seen his tools knows he has tools.

** Chronicled six D'backs prospects in 2006 ... Chris Young (D'backs 2007 CF), Casey Daigle (not called up in 2007 ... life isn't all bad: married a decent pitcher), Carlos Quinten (Stanford/had D'backs RF job and lost it), Bill Murphy (CSUN/called up in September 2007), Dustin Nippert (WVU/up and down in 2006 & 2007) and Brian Barden (Oregon State/called up as injury replacement in 2007, sent back and released/finished season at Memphis).

While I realize he had to know he was being filmed, the stunned look on Carlos Quinten's face after being told he was called up was priceless. He thought he was going to get chewed out for getting down on himself again.

The Show was on Mojo Network last showed this past spring and summer. It's a six part series. If it repeats again people might find it interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Is Pedroia that good? Or is he the kind of guy that plays with a chip on his shoulder and the big stage is where he will shine? I know he is good.

Pedroia has talent, a chip on his shoulder and a tremendous amount of confidence he fits in. How many rookies would do a midseason pregame lineup announcing himself as Dustin "I own Mike Lowell in cribbage" Pedroia. He dissed (in fun) an accomplished veteran on national television. He's believes in himself and made himself fit in early. Lowell responded by saying he loves having a 4'8" second baseman for low throws.

I recommend that anyone interested in playing pro ball for a living and their parents to watch that series.

For young players who are goint through the system, they quickly realize how hard it is to even get to where those players are. You will find most milb players goal is to make the 40 man roster, then the 25. Then getting to the Show and sticking there is a whole different animal.

Anyone know if that is able to be purchased anywhere? I just did a search on Amazon and nothing urned up.

The Mojo Network is on extended cable, I saw it through comcast.

Fascinating thread to me.

My observations, so far, include the talent, tools, work ethic too. But I have also noticed that there is some intangibles there, hard to quantify and put into words, but they are there.

I have also learned that talent, tools, work ethic, and even the intangibles are not enough.

The sun, moon, and the stars also have to be in alignment and you have to have some luck.

Part of Coach May's quote jumped out at me.

"The ones that make it know they belong."

I remember when my son was young that it was hard to accept that he was headed on a path to play baseball. It was hard to let yourself think that it might be a possibility. That he might have the talent to make it. It still is.

But there was confirmation from others along the way that said its OK. That's part of what this site is about.

I wondered if he would make it from high school to college. Then I saw an acceleration in him duing college that I did not expect or know was possible.

Near the end of fall instructional league, after they had worked the through out the time on the mental aspects of the game building confidence, etc. one of the coaches pulled my son aside, and said, "You are going to spring training. You might have the opportunity to catch some of the pitchers on the MLB roster in spring training."

"It's OK for you to be there.........."

Thank you for sharing that very touching story, FO.

It is interesting that throughout this thread the "mental aspect" of the game is noted as a key element---we spend more time on this than practicing with our Fall team--we would rather spend an extra 10 minutes on this aspect before a game than take infield/outfield---we feel all our kids have all star talent but they need to hone the mental aspect of the game---that can be the difference at the next level---and I am not sure how much of the mental aspect is taught at the HS level

You can see some guys - and they just have "IT".

Makes no difference what other factors are involved. What school they went to or didnt go to - how big they are - blah blah blah.

You cant really explain it - its very hard to accurately describe it - but you know it when you see it.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Thank you for sharing that very touching story, FO.

quote:

Originally posted by cheeseattheknees:
At some level, they are all talented. Some more than others. But, the 25th player on the MLB roster, his worst day (skillwise) is better than the best day for which some of us could hope.

What sets them apart from the rest of us, is the consistency with which they accomplish their task. Watch them practice. The 25th guy's BP is amazingly consistent. He may not stroke like, say, Bonds. But, within his toolset, it is consistent.

What sets them apart from each other are the level of physical tools and, then, within guys of similar tool sets, the mental makeup. Those with the calm, confident explosiveness (again, comparing within same toolset) will succeed.

The ability to slow the game down, while the other guy's world is swirling around him. To me, that's what separates guys within the same toolset. That's the difference between moving up and be left behind.

I think the above is very accurate.

FO,
Way to go!

Just a recap: Series called "The Show" on Mojo Network which is through extended comcast only?? Just switched to Dish Network (don't ask..huge mistake)..anybody know if Mojo is on Dish??

I found something about Mojo Network and The Show(didn't want you guys to think I don't do my own legwork)...

http://www.mojohd.com/mojoseries/theshow/

quote:

I am trying to find out what separates players who get drafted from players who do not.

Good question filsfan. I think for the most part you can condense it all into one word ---- PROJECTIABILITY! During my son’s senior year of HS he was invited to a pre-draft workout in Bush Stadium along with a few players the Cardinals were looking to draft. In my opinion my son didn’t have the necessary experience or resume to be drafted as a catcher so I asked the scouting director why they wanted to draft my son. His reply was: We want to draft your son because he has the things that cannot be taught and we feel confident we can teach him the things that he needs to learn. He probably had caught less than 100 innings TOTAL in his life when they drafted him in the 5th round as a catcher.
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Newcomer:
Just a recap: Series called "The Show" on Mojo Network which is through extended comcast only?? Just switched to Dish Network (don't ask..huge mistake)..anybody know if Mojo is on Dish??

I don't think it's being broadcast anymore. I'd check again in the spring. I have Mojo on Direct. It's also on our local Comcast cable.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

quote:

I am trying to find out what separates players who get drafted from players who do not.

"We want to draft your son because he has the things that cannot be taught and we feel confident we can teach him the things that he needs to learn."
Fungo

Opposite story a catcher was drafted from Clemson as a pitcher in the 4th round, only 28 innings pitched in college.

He did touch 100mph though and you can't TEACH that!

quote:

Opposite story a catcher was drafted from Clemson as a pitcher in the 4th round, only 28 innings pitched in college.

He did touch 100mph though and you can't TEACH that!

I think the unproven pitcher w/100 mph velo is a great example of drafting on projection rather than experience.
I never felt that all the other intangibles (hustle, desire, commitment, character, yada, yada) were major factors in DRAFTING players however those are the characteristics that commonly determine a successful progression up the ranks of MILB and on into MLB. It's tough to know how a player that has had everything in the past will respond to having to ride a bus all night long and spend a week in a motel with a player that has very little in common with you (other than baseball) ----- while making less money than minimum wage. Some adjust quite well while others struggle with the lifestyle. To some it can be a dream come true while others might see it as a nightmare. I don't know anyone that can predict exactly how they will respond until you put them in that position. I'm sure there have been scout/scouting director conversations that end in: "Let's draft him and see".
Fungo

Thanks for all of the great reponses. It seems to come down to: To be drafted you need projectable tools and talent. To progress once you are drafted a player needs to show alot of inner strenght and toughness to go along with his talent.

ESPN.com had a story last draft day telling some of the stranger ways some very successful players were drafted. Alot were good but the one that caught my attention was Kenny Rodgers. He was a lefthanded infielder and outfielder. A scout went to a game and he was playing RF. He airmailed to throws to 3rd base and on to home. Scout loved his arm strenght and drafted him as a pitcher around the 20th round. Projectability!!

Great story about your son Fungo. I hope he is doing well. Has he made it the majors?

I must say how much of a pleasure it is to communicate on this site. No petty banter or jealousy like a local one I visit. I'm glad I found it.

quote:

Great story about your son Fungo. I hope he is doing well. Has he made it the majors?

He is doing well --- thanks. No MLB. While they all want to play major league baseball he is one that is also enjoying the journey --- (it just happens to be by bus).
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:

While they all want to play major league baseball he is one that is also enjoying the journey --- (it just happens to be by bus).
Fungo

Fungo, I love your sense of humor!

I wouldn't want to pretend I know what it takes to play major league baseball. I don't. But I've noticed a trend each level up my son has taken.

Consistency.

The old saying, "You don't have to be a great player to play MLB, just a good player every day." Now, I don't know if that's true or not but I can see the meaning it's trying to convey. 1) You need to have the physical tools, 2) You need to apply them on a daily, consistent basis. I think the ones that do are the ones with the competitive fire in their belly, the ones that don't fold under pressure, the ones that do not quit, the ones that don't rely on excuses for failure.

quote:

Coach May posted: I was talking to a former ml player last hs season before one of my games. We were talking about players and the whole process of making it to the "show". He said this "Some guys are not sure if they belong in the show or not. The ones that make it know they belong."

My son took a few lessons after a minor injury in high school, to check mechanics. He was dragging his arm. His instructor was an experienced successful Reds Area scout/ former Reds MiBL coach/ former local HS coach. One of his high school players was Joe Oliver, a catcher for the Reds. One time he asked Joe "What was the difference sticking in the Show?" Joe said, "Knowing I belonged."

I mentioned both, consistency and calm confidence.

Although, there are some who make it with confidence that is not so calm. lol. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. Either way, there's a strut.

.

Back to the original question...

quote:

I know there is no science to this but I am curious as to what gets a kid drafted, even in the 20th - 30th rounds.

Am going to take the question to round 30-50...

After years of watching the lower rounds, talking to scouts...I'm gonna tweak you all and add two more factors...

...Quick twitch and "The Look".

44
.

To me, "The Look" is they look like they play at a different speed. They're never overwhelmed. They make it look effortless.

In reading this thread, there seem to be two completely different discussions.
The first is what gets 25th to 50th rounders drafted and what gets those same players beyond the draft.
For the first, I think the answer is truly organizational. What do they need, what skills do you have that meets their needs and how many of those "needs" do they have. If you are a pitcher, there are a lot more needs in those rounds.
Additional factors include organizations that draft college over high school and finally organizations that strictly draft for filler vs those who draft with the view that every player will be give a chance to play or prove they cannot.
Once drafted, there are very critical issues that are yet to be mentioned. Injury is the most important. There are players, I mean "players," who don't make it because of injury. When you start playing 144 games plus Spring training, injury becomes factor of life, an attrition aspect that strikes indiscriminately, but is very, very real and omni presesent.
There are also major organizational differences. A good illustration will come this week with the Rule V draft. There are some terrific player stuck in AA/AAA. Unless they get to a different organization, by the Rule V or trade, the numbers will rarely allow them to get to the next step, even though they are performing better than players in organizations with less depth, who do.
When you get to professional baseball, there are so many factors beyond the players control that impact how far they get, when you are a player in the rounds being discussed.

Excellent post infielddad!

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Excellent post infielddad!

Infielddad,
I was talking about getting drafted in any round, even the lower rounds. What you said, especially about injuries, applies to players drafted in the first or fiftieth.

One word: perserverance.

How quickly fortunes can change:

Carlos Quinten was one of the players chronicled on The Show. He was a first round pick. He finished 2006 as an every day outfielder on the D'backs. He got injured and started slowly in 2007. He was traded yesterday for an A level player.

I think back now to a comment Quinten made about being a "top prospect." He said "It's just a label. A player still has to take the field and get it done."

From azcentral.com (Arizona Republic):

The trade in some ways illustrates how much Quentin's value has changed in the past 12 months. This time last year, he was untouchable, a part of the club's rebuilding process and expected to be a central figure for years to come.

But a shoulder injury that required surgery contributed to a frustrating 2007 season in which he was optioned to the minor leagues in July and ultimately saw his long-term standing in the organization dissolve with phenom Justin Upton's emergence and Eric Byrnes' contract extension.

With the White Sox, he could get a chance to be their everyday left fielder. Quentin is hoping to be fully recovered from the shoulder surgery by Opening Day.

"It's bittersweet for him because he feels like he didn't get a chance to accomplish everything he wanted in Arizona," said Brodie Van Wagenen, Quentin's agent. "So he leaves there with a sense of unfulfillment but at the same point he's appreciative of the Diamondbacks to give him a chance to go play elsewhere."

Does not perserverance pertain to any walk of life where one wants to succeed?

Perserverance might be one of the most important thing in reaching the Major Leagues.

But regarding this topic, talent is #1 when it comes to the draft! Perserverance while a very good trait in baseball and life, by itself, will not get a player drafted.

However, it sometimes is the reason that a player has improved his skills enough to be drafted based on his "talent".

So heck... In the end... Maybe perserverance is the main ingredient!

How about talented players perservering, and LUCKily not getting blocked or hurt?

For those of you who have experience and/or the knowledge, and there seems to be many, what are the "tools or talents" that catches a scouts eye??

Would not the tools be:
1) Hit for power
2) Hit for average
3) Arm strength (throwing)
4) Fielding Ability
5) Speed

quote:

Originally posted by floridafan:
Would not the tools be:
1) Hit for power
2) Hit for average
3) Arm strength (throwing)
4) Fielding Ability
5) Speed

Not for pitchers!

I think that tools vary depending on position. I used to have a chart that gave the tools that scouts look for regarding position. I lost it when I change to W vista.

I don't consider pitchers to be 5 tool players---they are PITCHERS !!!! A skill unto itelf!

Do you have to have more than one of the 5 tools?
I'm sure it really separates a player who has it all but can one of the tools, especially speed or power, get a kid drafted? Non pitchers that is.

pitchers
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/700680.html

position players
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/703196.html

In addition to Perseverance, the following character values will keep a draftee around (even after his primary tools keep improving.)

Respect
Responsibility
Compassion
Sharing
Friendship
Cooperation
Self-discipline
Honesty

TPM,
Great websites. They seem like scouting 101 classes.
I looked up a pitcher from Clemson drafted by the Cardinals in June. Second round pick, very nice. I hope he reaches all his goals.

fillsfan,
Thank you. You asked a question and deserved an answer, it was the best I could come up with as I had lost that other link.
I do beleive that I had originally gotten some great info from the PG website, I'll go back and look when I can.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
pitchers
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/700680.html

position players
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/703196.html

Great articles, TPM.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
In addition to Perseverance, the following character values will keep a draftee around (even after his primary tools keep improving.)

Respect
Responsibility
Compassion
Sharing
Friendship
Cooperation
Self-discipline
Honesty

Bear, I wonder if you could explain this. There isn't a single trait or skill in all of those great values that gets measured by those who run minor league player development, especially when your primary tools aren't improving.
Think of it this way: there are about 650 positions in MLB. In each minor league system there are 140 to 180 players at any given time.
They are competing for 3-4 roster spots that might open each year.
Virtues and values are of little to no value in MLB when your skills have peaked below the level to get beyond AAA, from everything I have heard and seen and discussions I had just last night.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
How about talented players perservering, and LUCKily not getting blocked or hurt?

A friend and former teammate was to be involved in a trade for Rod Carew when the Twins were trying to dump his salary. My friend was told if the deal happened he was to be the Twins leftfielder. The Yankees pulled him out of the trade even though they were loaded in the outfield. The Twins backed off the trade and sent Carew to the Angels. At the end of his second stellar AAA season my friend was hit by a pitch, broke his wrist and never fully recovered. He never saw a day in the majors.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
How about talented players perservering, and LUCKily not getting blocked or hurt?

Dad04, what a great question.
If the club has many dollars invested, your opportunities increase but are not guaranteed, by any means. Like it or not, there are GM's who do not want to rely on a talented minor leaguer if there is a major league veteran available.
When you see 40 year old position players getting 2/3 year guaranteed money, that means talented players will sit at AA/AAA.
These next few days should be of great interest. There will be 2 years of Rule V players eligible to be picked for very small amounts of money. If there isn't a great deal of movement, things will remain status quo with terrific players sitting and waiting, and waiting, and waiting...well you get the idea.
One of our son's teammates in 2004/05, who was a backup both years, got picked in the Dec. 2005 rule V. Expectations are that he will make that MLB team next year in an organization that is very weak in it's minor league system and without adequate resources to compete in the free agent market.
He is also a very good player who spent several years trying to "earn" his rule V status.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
Infielddad,
I was talking about getting drafted in any round, even the lower rounds. What you said, especially about injuries, applies to players drafted in the first or fiftieth.

fillsfan, Either I didn't post what I meant to say and it was misinterpreted.
While it is correct that every player is susceptible to injury, what happens after that can vary greatly depending on the draft round/investment of the club.
Those are things you learn through experience.
If you are drafted in the 50th round and injury affects your production, you are not likely to gt a second chance to prove yourself. If someone in the first round has he same injury and it also impacts production, he will likely get many more chances.
The same injury does not produce necessarily the same result depending on your draft status.

Infielddad,
Agree that a top draft pick and a low draft pick have different standards regarding injuries.
I meant no offense to your original post regarding injuries and opportunity once drafted. My original post was about getting drafted at all.
To be a top 5 round pick a kid has to be an awesome player. To get drafted anywhere there has to be certain things that catches a scouts eye. I was trying to clarify for myself what those things are.
The many great posts in this thread have helped me tremendously.

The reason I started this topic is because I have a 15 yo sophomore who is a good hitter with a lot of power. He is an outfielder with a good arm, good glove but is not the fastest kid in the world. His goal, like a lot of kids, is to be drafted from high school. I do not want to discouage his dream/goal but it is hard for me to see this as a realistic possibility.
He currently plays for a very good travel team that goes to all the age appropriate PG tournaments on the east coast.
He works out at a bb academy every winter and has burnt out yet. I was just wandering how far fetched his dream is.
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
How about talented players perservering, and LUCKily not getting blocked or hurt?

A friend and former teammate was to be involved in a trade for Rod Carew when the Twins were trying to dump his salary. My friend was told if the deal happened he was to be the Twins leftfielder. The Yankees pulled him out of the trade even though they were loaded in the outfield. The Twins backed off the trade and sent Carew to the Angels. At the end of his second stellar AAA season my friend was hit by a pitch, broke his wrist and never fully recovered. He never saw a day in the majors.

Blocked AND hurt. He's not alone, I'm sure.

quote:

posted by filsfan: I do not want to discouage his dream/goal but it is hard for me to see this as a realistic possibility.
He currently plays for a very good travel team that goes to all the age appropriate PG tournaments on the east coast.
He works out at a bb academy every winter and has burnt out yet. I was just wandering how far fetched his dream is.

By definition, getting drafted is far fetched for nearly every single player at 15. The odds get better for a couple dozen kids by 17 or 18. Don't discourage his dream. Why would you or should you? Don't get distracted by something so out of your control, like who he falls for, or if he gets drafted. You have zero control or clervoyance on either topic.

Take care of what you can and enjoy the rest. My $0.02.

fillsfan,
When it comes to the draft and playing professional baseball, it truly is a process over which you and your son do not have control
I would agree with Dad04 that it is your son's dream and it is a dream shared by so many. I would not try and discourage the dream but you can perhaps bring a sense of realism to the discussions when necessary.
With it being your son's dream, the only thing he can control is improving his skills as a player. Even then, he isn't going to be measured by his skills when determining draftability, he is going to be measured by whether those skills project in 3-4 years.
In some organizations, he is also going to be assessed on whether he has the mental makeup to adapt and succeed and, in some places, that can be deciding factor.
I think it is important to encourage and support your son to develop his tools/skills so he can be the best player he can be, so he can dream.
When it comes to the draft, he can dream, but you can also provide some sense of realism to the process. The true objective isn't to get drafted. That is only the start and it isn't anywhere near the finish line.
Last night I was reading a site that did a summary of every minor league position player in the organization.
There are currently 86 players who were included with scouting reports/comments on tools. Every one of those 86 is a very good player.
Even so, of those 86, it is likely that perhaps 5 or 6 will ever put on a uniform in a MLB game. That, for me, is the guidance you can provide your son when/if the draft presents as a possibility when he is a high school senior, assuming the draft is configured then as it is now, which is very questionable.

Good posts here.

Don't ever discourage a young players dream. Focus on what you have control over now as infielddad has expressed.
When the time comes at 17,18 (for some later) and he might have to make a decision, you can discuss the possibilities.
In the meantime, don't forget the importance of school, good grades open many doors and is often overlooked by young players in the scheme of things.

great post by infield dad. and to add to it .most kids have the dream of getting drafted. that can be a great goal, with college bball being a step to reaching that goal.

but what to do after they get drafted? that is something you can both explore.and get a ton of info right here,you've been given some already.

while maybe 10% of the kids drafted have a nice payday,most don't. and it can be a struggle,i'm betting none would give it up without a fight.
it's great to have that dream but take it a step further,lot's to think about. and it will make for some great son/dad conversations.

Has anyone found that Mojo Network on DirecTV? I don't see it.

FWIW...

Never tell a scout that your dream or goal is to get drafted. They want players with much higher goals. I think others here are saying the same thing.

It's kind of like the main objective being to enter the contest rather than winning it.

quote:

Originally posted by YHF:
Has anyone found that Mojo Network on DirecTV? I don't see it.

DirecTV does not carry the Mojo Network.

Figures.

I definitely agree that being drafted, whether from high school or college, is the beginning of the journey not the end.

fillsfan,
I am reading a book that was recommended on this site.
Inside Pitch by George Gmelch, Life in Professional Baseball, a must read, IMO.

I bought it on ebay for 99 cents.

Thanks TPM. I will look for the book today. You, along with many other "regulars" on this site are truly insightful and gracious. It is really apprciated by a novice like me.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
Thanks TPM. I will look for the book today. You, along with many other "regulars" on this site are truly insightful and gracious. It is really apprciated by a novice like me.

Taking ownership of the process is rewarding. You are much less a novice today than yesterday. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
I am trying to find out what separates players who get drafted from players who do not. I know there are tools like pitch speed, running speed and power that can't be taught that stand out when you watch games. Are these the types of things that catch the eyes of scouts.
I know there is no science to this but I am curious as to what gets a kid drafted, even in the 20th - 30th rounds.

That's an easy one. SIZE and SIZE alone.

baseballregie ...

quote:

That's an easy one. SIZE and SIZE alone.

There are many discussions on this site and everywhere else that address the 'does size matter?' question but that is hardly the only factor involved in a player's draft potential.

That statement is far too general !!! And not totally correct by any stretch of the imagination. We know lots of players who are successful and not at the top of the height charts.

quote:

Originally posted by FutureBack.Mom:
baseballregie ...

quote:

That's an easy one. SIZE and SIZE alone.

There are many discussions on this site and everywhere else that address the 'does size matter?' question but that is hardly the only factor involved in a player's draft potential.

That statement is far too general !!! And not totally correct by any stretch of the imagination. We know lots of players who are successful and not at the top of the height charts.

Not to mention the numerous amount of players who aren't/weren't sucessful who are at the top of the height charts.

I read where the goal is to make the 40 man, then the 25 man roster. I believe that the goal should be, at least, to be an above average major league player. Of course, everything inside the minor leagues seems to point to simply "getting to the show." So what separates players who can be above average in the show? Talent, for sure, but talent in the mental game is as important as tools. Tools are easier to see, and therefore draft for. Physical mechanics are easier to teach, perhaps, but winning the mental game is what separates good from great.

I did not mean to say that getting to the show is simple. Of course it's not. Just the concept is simple. Kinda like knowing what to do -- it's pretty simple to know, but really hard to do!

The last player I saw in the minors that had the look was Justin Upton. He never seemed like he was just going thru the emotions of being a baseball player and never seemed rattled. At his age, that stood out. Before that it was Elijah Dukes and Delmon Young, and before them it was Jeff Francoeur. Russell Martin also really looked stood out. I got to attend a interview at the Braves Fanfest with Chipper Jones. He was asked when being a veteran how do you know that a young player will succeed. His response was the player that has the look that he thinks he is the best one on the field but its not cockiness its confidence. The question was in regards to Yunel Escobar.

Also, a lot of times I see minor league players that look like they wish they were elsewhere. The last example of this was Matt Tuiasosopo. I really don't understand how you can have success with that mindset much less force the organization to take you seriously.

Players that had some buzz during their minor league stint that just did not look like they would exceed at the major league level based on their looks were Mark Reynolds and James Loney.

So I would say its a combination of looking like you are interested, your size, realize its a job, and always remembering you are going to fail 70 % of the time.

I would suspect that its a little easier to have that "look" of confidence when you're 18, fresh out of high school, and the best in the country.

It's much harder to keep it day in and day out when dealing with the setbacks, injuries, demotions, slumps, etc. that are sure to come. Any player on any given day can loose the "look" of confidence. The best players are the ones that find it again and again after each obstacle they face, believing they are still doing what they were put on this earth to do.

IMHO the goal isn't to be an above average major leaguer, but rather to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt. Success shouldn't be measured by where you end up, but rather by what you've overcome to get to where you end up.

TX Mom;
This is an interesting discussion. We recently returned from Australia with our 4 teams and the Beijing State Team. Each team played 12 games in 18 days. Several players improved each day.

One player, an outfielder from Los Angeles, played in the California Championship High School game *linebacker] and two days later landed in Adelaide, South Australia, played in the baseball game and hit a triple and double. Later in Perth he hit a "towering" HR off a pro pitcher.

Since 1983, 223 ML players have played in the Goodwill Series events, including Delmon and Dimitri Young, Adam and Andy LaRoche, Bobby Jenks, Aaron Hill, Jerome Bonderman.

Each player presents a story of "perseverance".

Bob Williams

quote:

I would suspect that its a little easier to have that "look" of confidence when you're 18, fresh out of high school, and the best in the country.

It's much harder to keep it day in and day out when dealing with the setbacks, injuries, demotions, slumps, etc. that are sure to come. Any player on any given day can loose the "look" of confidence. The best players are the ones that find it again and again after each obstacle they face, believing they are still doing what they were put on this earth to do.

IMHO the goal isn't to be an above average major leaguer, but rather to do the best you can with the hand you're dealt. Success shouldn't be measured by where you end up, but rather by what you overcame to get to where you end up.

Somehow I'm not a bit surprised that this "great" post came from TXMom. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:


Somehow I'm not a bit surprised that this "great" post came from TXMom. Thanks!

I am not either!

In fact, I even sent her a PM about it.

Thanks TXMom for a great post.

I too thank you TXmom, that was a great post!

According to perhaps the greatest coach ever (John Wooden), "success is the peace of mind that comes from knowing you did your best." Also, "don't measure yourself by what you have accomplished, but by what you should've accomplished with your ability" and "don't compare yourself to others, but never stop comparing yourself to what you can be." So I agree wholeheartedly with TxMom. That said, Nick Bollitieri warns that "Just do your best" can become a copout for many because they start to accept less than their best because they really have no idea what their best is. Therefore, "a" goal (not the goal - my mistake) for minor leaguers should also be to become an above average major leaguer, not just get there. I also think this should be a stated goal of minor league farm directors.

Please someone tell me what IMHO means. I've seen it a couple times, but have no clue. Thanks.

IMHO = in my humble opinion

I would imagine that while trying to get there, most players strive to be above average players. IMHO

Coach, having heard Coach Wooden speak on two occasions, he has a way of making you aspire to utilize every talent you possess, in the best way possible, and then challenge yourself tomorrow to be even better.
When you apply his concepts to life in Milb, I think you end up with a full appreciation for TxMom's post.
From talking with numerous players in Milb you cannot set your goals to be something general and/or ambiguous, like being better than the average major leaguer. That isn't a "goal" that gets you out of bed to take extra BP in late July when you have played 110 games, and it is 97 degrees and 95% humidity.
I would think most of them "aspire" to be a major leaguer who will stick, or they wouldn't do what it takes to play Milb.
What gets you to the cages early and what gets you there to take extra infield is a burning desire, combined with the need to get better than you were yesterday, combined with coaches who create an environment for that to happen, because they are there with you, or there before you and stay when you leave.
Milb isn't very artificial. When you arrive at Spring Training, there are about 120 position players. Every one of them knows that about 60 of them will receive playing assignments when Spring Training ends in 5 weeks. In Milb, many are competing for the opportunity to play tomorrow,and not be released and sent home.
If you pay attention to the major leagues, you are missing the details needed to improve your game, to get your next AB and more after that. When you are in Milb, there aren't many who are dreaming. They work very hard, everyday with the knowledge that if they don't get better tomorrow, they go home.
TxMom, that is a wonderful, thoughtful post and so applicable to this thread. Good luck to your son. Will look forward to watching him at AT&T this beginning in April.

I have just the article to back up what infielddad has posted. The Indians top draft pick from a couple seasons ago - Trevor Crowe - started thinking more about being in the majors after he "arrived" at Double A last year than focusing on the task at hand. In the article below, he clearly describes the pitfall's in that type of thinking - at least as it applies to his situation:

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/01/tribe_prospect_crowe_resets_cl.html

Here is an interesting quote from the article:

quote:

If Crowe hadn't been the Indians' No. 1 pick in 2005, who knows if he would have gotten 518 at-bats and a trip to the Arizona Fall League to find himself. The game not only favors the talented, but those perceived to have talent.

CD,
Whew, thanks for covering my back, or I guess my son's. What I posted is mostly what he taught me.

IFD,
That was a great post and CD thanks for posting that article.

quote:

What gets you to the cages early and what gets you there to take extra infield is a burning desire, combined with the need to get better than you were yesterday, combined with coaches who create an environment for that to happen, because they are there with you, or there before you and stay when you leave.

“He’s a hard worker: he shows up early and leaves late. His baseball IQ has gone up a whole lot.”

Do they measure that at showcases ?

Thanks for the kind words everyone...and for a great post infielddad. You really clarified what I was trying to say.

I pray that God will take good care of all of our guys this season.

Talent separates drafted players from non drafted players.

and Makeup

and Projectable ceilings

and good experienced college players

and instincts

and game awareness

and tools

and bat speed

and arm speed

and foot speed

and being athletic

and believe it or not Looking like a ball player in your uni!

..and heart.

Glad you mentioned "heart"

The toughest thing to evaluate in a player.


HEART

Thats why you better tell someone what your heart WANTS! and not what someone else's heart wants!!

Problem is parents hearts and players hearts don't match. Some hearts want the bonus and don't really want to play. Other hearts want the attention but lack the desire.....

We could get deep into that one word. So let me stop there!

Hello;

The separation begins very early in a baseball player's life. Please read this article which appeared in our local newspaper.

Jonny Gomes was in our Area Code games and played at the local Santa Rosa JC. "Preserving" and practice is this message for young players.

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...2090329/1055/SPORT10

Bob Williams

"Golden" thread here, MN-MOM...........

Mr. Williams - thank you for that article. Here is the money quote from the article imho and I have never seen anyone say this before:

quote:

Do they breathe the sport like it's air?

I agree with FO that this thread should be golden. Also, TxMom's post was a classic as everyone else here has said.

There's a poster here who is very good friends with Hank King, who obviously has a knack for seeing things that others don't.

The bottom line, all you need is one scout to really believe in you, and you have to believe in yourself.

I do believe that Hank King is an agent at this time and his ability to identify talent is one of the important things to consider when seeking an advisor/agent.

TPM - those are good points about Hank King. Notice he said that what caught his eye was the pop-up

His name was Joey Belle at the time and he had a reputation at LSU as a hot-head/unstable and many teams back away from him. The Indians General manager at the time - Joe Klein, took a lot of heat for drating him in the second round given his emotional baggage. On draft day, the GM's main quote was that Belle hit the highest pop-ups he had ever seen in his life. The average fan was left scratching their heads Joe Klein was right about that player. Albert Belle, although never considered a nice guy, was one heck of a player.

quote:

Originally posted by fillsfan:
I am trying to find out what separates players who get drafted from players who do not. I know there are tools like pitch speed, running speed and power that can't be taught that stand out when you watch games. Are these the types of things that catch the eyes of scouts.
I know there is no science to this but I am curious as to what gets a kid drafted, even in the 20th - 30th rounds.

This is the original post question.

Another answer...........an agreement between the two parties that match

In regards to drafting players:

A) Be very skeptical about players that play dual sports splited with baseball
B) Injuries kill pitchers
C) Talent can come from anywhere.
D) Some tools guys pan out, others don't. Some sluggers pan out, others don't.

If I was a scouting director, I want my position players to be from the college ranks and my pitchers to be drafted out of high school. Unless its a talent like Justin Upton who will be considered a success if he only reaches half of his potential.

One important thing you didnt think about Mr. Scouting Director. You have a 2 year contract, guess those HS pitchers you draft will be credited to the next SD after you!!

quote:

If I was a scouting director, I want my position players to be from the college ranks and my pitchers to be drafted out of high school.

William77,

Sure you don't mean the other way around?

You can take your pick of the college position players and I will take my pick of the high school draft picks. Of course neither of us can use players from the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Japan, etc. who are not elegible to be drafted.

You mentioned Justin Upton, so I won't include him. There are probably a lopt more, but here are some of the position players I get at each position...

INF - Alex Rodriguez
INF - Derek Jeter
INF - David Wright
INF - Jimmy Rollins
INF - Chipper Jones
INF - Scott Rolen
INF - JJ Hardy
INF - Eric Chavez
INF - Marcus Giles
INF - Brandon Phillips
OF - Ken Griffey Jr
OF - Manny Ramirez
OF - Matt Holliday
OF - Carl Crawford
OF - Torii Hunter
OF - Gary Sheffield
OF - Jermaine Dye
OF - Grady Sizemore
OF - Jeff Francouer
OF - Jeremy Hermida
OF - Gary Matthews
OF - BJ Upton
OF - Cliff Floyd
OF - Adam Dunn
OF - Vernon Wells
OF - Delmon Young
1B - Prince Fielder
1B - Adrian Gonzalez
1B - Derrek Lee
1B - Jim Thome
1B - Justin Morneau
1B - Casey Kotchman
C - Joe Mauer
C - Ivan Rodriguez
C - Yadier Molina
C - Russell Martin
C - Jorge Posada
C - Brian McCann

Note: Looking over that list, I just realized something. There might be more than one future
Hall-of-Famer at every position.

Well, all you said is true but:

Todd Helton 1B- College
Ryan Howard- College
Chase Utley- College
Aaron Rowand- College
Garrett Atkins-College
Dan Uggla- College
Barry Bonds- College
Khalil Greene- College
Jason Bay- College
Eric Byrnes-College
Mike Lowell- College
Travis Hafner- JC
Frank Thomas- College
Nick Swisher- College
Curtis Granderson- College
Jermaine Dye- College
Ryan Braun- College
Troy Tulowiski- College
Stephen Drew- College
Rickie Weeks-College
Mark Teixera- College
Hunter Pense-College
Ryan Zimmerman- College
Jacob Ellsbury-College
Mark Reynolds- College


I will not lie and say your list of position players will produce more HOF's but my list helped their teams quicker.

Added to Golden Threads by request ... some very good reading here!

With regard to high school vs college, position players vs pitchers, so much depends on the MLB club's approach to their own farm system that I think it is difficult to balance the discussion. Some teams prefer the young ones, to groom on their own, while others prefer the college players to utilize some of their maturity and experience.

So many factors in all of this ... that's why they pay those GM's etc the big bucks !!! And some of them still don't get it right

Going back to the original question on the thread and some of the comments about intangibles. Interestingly, we have a local kid that just got drafted. Granted he was way down the list but he got drafted. His only tool really is he hits for power. He is a SS that runs a 7.3. IF throw is 86. He strikes out a lot and when he does he goes in the dug-out and throws a hissy fit. Just this week he got kicked out of the state Legion tournament b/c he threw a bat in the dug out after striking out and injured one of his teammates. He makes a lot of errors in the field, as well. When he is hot he can flat out hit the ball - but that is it. Makes you go back to the original question - why do some get drafted and some not. I think he got hot at the right place at the right time. He got lucky and got seen one of his good games. And, the scouts weren't there at the games where he had 2 errors and struck out twice, yelled at the ump and then threw his helmet across the field to his dugout.

Hit,

I'm guessing that if he is still playing legion ball someone hasn't signed for him to play pro ball. Maybe the MBL team had second thoughts. If he's holding out for $$$, I wish him luck. Hope he has a back-up plan.

Initially I was thinking that they saw a diamond in the rough. Maybe upon closer examination they saw the flaws.

quote:

Originally posted by HitaHomer1:
Going back to the original question on the thread

How about being in the right place, at the right time, and in front of the right eyes?

Sounds like the right eyes liked the HS prospect more than you did!

I like the kid. And, as a little boy he loved baseball more than any kid out there. He just isn't better (IMO and others O)than a lot of the other talented kids in the area. Lots of errors, lots of strike outs. No control over temper - gets kicked out of a lot of games etc. I would love for him to make it as a pro - even in the minors. It is really his only hope. I'm just going back to the original thread question as I just don't get it.

He didn't get drafted very high, so he is going to go JUCO.

Hit,
Your example hit right on the head of my original post. From what I've read on this thread, on other threads, and websites it seems that having at least one "plus tool" can get a player noticed and possibly drafted. Your guy has plus power. He wasn't drafted high but he was drafted and that was exactly the point of the question.
No doubt that having two or more pluses will get a player drafted much higher.

This is a great thread and I have been following it.
No one knows all what a scout looks for but from from what I have experienced I know that if a player has extremely good bat speed and can hit for power at an early age he is going to get some looks. Hitting a baseball 400 feet off a guy throwing high 80s low ninetys and doing it more than once is not something all players can do.most above avg players can get better at grounders and even improve quickness and speed to some degree, but the ability to HIT be a pure hitter is what starts to separate out at the higher levels.A perfect example is Manny Ramirez. Talked about before . Not a great defender but one of the purest hitters in the game and hes there.IS he fast? he jogs to first LOL,is he quick, is his arm a cannon?No but he can hit. Another example Jeff Franceur (I love Jeff and we are Brave fans). jeff is a superior athlete, strong arm, all the tools but He struggles with pitch selection, he is struggling with hitting. He is a good player but if he continues to struggle hitting it will become a problem. Thats my viewpoint on some of this.

It seems to me that as a position player Hitting is the tool that will get you drafted. Other tools are good, but hitting is king. A position player that can not hit for average and/or power unless he runs 6.3 and has an additional tool, will probably get passed on.

For pitchers, it is obvious that velocity will get you there, even with minimal control or additional pitches. I guess that the belief is that the rest can be taught, But hitting (batspeed), running, and armstrength, seem to be God given skills that otherwise are not easy to develop.

If a kid can drive a ball out of a park with wood against decent pitching at 18, even if he does not do it consistantly, shows a skill that is not easily (or possible to be) taught. Temper flare ups because of unmet expectations may infer desire and an unwillingness to accept mediocrity. Some maturity may help with these mental lapses. The ability to hit consistantly can be developed by a player who already has the gift and the skill to hit.

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
besides talent you need exposure

You hit the nail on th head there my friend!!
EXPOSURE!!!!!