What Was McNamee Up To?

quote:

If my intuition is right about this, it would suggest that the prosecutors and McNamee genuinely maintain the truth of McNamee's charges, and that they were hoping to snare Clemens in an ancillary offense, just as they did with Bonds (charged not with steroids offenses, but with perjury and obstruction).

You very well could be correct.

The Andy Pettite admission has really hurt Clemens. At worst we know for a fact that McNamee has already partially told the truth as Pettite was named which confirmed McNamee's testimony as truthful. The relationship between the two players also hurts Clemens. Why would McNamee (under the threat of imprisonment) tell the truth about Pettite yet lie about Clemens

Clemens own words have hurt him. By bringing up the Vioxx issue for example, it appears he had no qualms with doing to his body whatever was necessary. The only difference between McNamee's story and Clemens is what chemicals were being injected. If you believe Pettite, it is difficult (beyond a reasonable doubt imho) to believe Clemens.

CD,

I'm sorry....I still don't see how one has anything to do with the other. sure, they worked out with one another from time to time and sure, they used the same trainer, but does that automatically make them all guilty because the used the same trainer....I think not ! What a trainer may recommend for one player will not necessarily mean the same for another. I mean you can tie it together all you want but in the end the bottom line is until there is more proof than one persons word, in order to get out of jail.....I need more ! Innocent til proven guilty......remember?

In every sport that I know players shoot themselves w/ pain killers or other things so that they may continue to go on and play in the game and help their teammates get another "W" in the column. The fact that he used vioxx like skittles, so what? That apparently was his choice of medicine that worked for him and made him able to continue to do his job that he's so generously paid. RC easily could have chose to not start in any of those games and then people would still be all over him call him old, soft, etc.

The fact is the damage is done, whether RC is innocent or guilty does it really matter now? In everyone's eyes there will always be a question mark and what a shame if this man was innocent all along. for the life of me I can't understand why our society has become so quick to pull the trigger on assuming everyone's guilt before you've even heard the facts. If I remember correctly, there are always two sides to a story and I'm one who prefers to hear it all before I make a decision.

Midlo, interesting twist on things.....I never thought of that but boy now that you mention I can absolutely see where you might be on to something there !

I feel horrible for everyone involved and their families.

An injection of Lidocane in the rear end would only numb the rear end - nothing else.

Next time you go to the Dentist, take your Novacane shot in the rear and see if it works on your teeth.

LIDOCAINE IS often injected with other meds that are irritating or painful, to decrease local discomfort.
It is also injected into joints or soft tissues, either alone, for pain relief, or with a steroid (for anti-inflammatory use)
Taking vioxx is the same as taking motrin

quote:

Originally posted by j2h6:
CD,

I'm sorry....I still don't see how one has anything to do with the other. sure, they worked out with one another from time to time and sure, they used the same trainer, but does that automatically make them all guilty because the used the same trainer....I think not !

That's not what was said. McNamee has gained credibility because Pettite corroberated McNamee's TESTIMONY. Combined with the FACT that McNamee risks jail time if found to lie about said testimony, and the scale tips dramatically.

As to your statement, In everyone's eyes there will always be a question mark , nope. No question in my mind.

The "phone call" was a chirade, shabbily scripted and poorly acted by two guys. Why is Rog 10 times more irate at some faceless reporter at his presser, than the guy who senselessly ruined his life, made his wife a mess and Koby get crushed? I saw better acting at The Music Man in high school.
McNamee is not backing off his story.McNamee watches the Interview

I thought the Clemens interview on 60 Minutes was pretty convincing. Then I turned around and heard the coverage of the phone call by McNamee. I didn't know what to make of the phone call. I didn't think either one of them said the things that I would have expected them to say.

I find it odd that Clemens never accused McNamee of lying. Also, I ain't taking injections from anyone but a Dr., or nurse.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
I saw better acting at The Music Man in high school.

I agree Dad04...some of those high school renditions of the Music Man are quite impressive!

Let me ask you all this----your very best friend---do you know everything he or she does---I know that I don't and I am sure he doesn't know everything about me either

Andy and Rocket may be best friends but it is very very possible for either one to do things without the other one knowing

I many cases in a marriage a spouse, as close as the two may be, they will not know know everything about each other and their activities---think about this hypothetical situation--your wife leaves and tells you she is going shopping--she returns 5 hours later with no purchaces telling you she couldn't find anything she liked-- OK--where was she? If you are the jealous untrusting type you can suspect funny stuff---if you have trust you think nothing of it


Sit back and think folks--keep your minds open

I dunno' TR...I had a good friend years ago, Robbie, and I pretty much knew what he was up to. I'm pretty certain he was a soul singer. Rumor had it that he may have also played some baseball too, but that's tough to tell. We always wondered about Robbie.

Keep your minds open and have a listen to Robbie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPTCVWAvJTk&eurl=http://...rdpress.com/2007/02/


.

TR, good point, and I agree that in a domestic situation, our closest friends are capable of behavior we could never imagine. Through this little old country lawyer's eyes, I see this:

-Whatever e-mail Roger got from McNamee, which was sent after Roger's "investigators' visited him, it's downright odd to call a guy you're suing for millions the next day, for any reason. It's weirder yet to record the phone call. It's downright sneaky/classless to record the call if you don't tell the other party you're recording it.

-Roger's use of B-12, Lidocaine, and other pain medications through injections in his rump or elsewhere will not be helpful in his attempt to convince a jury that he didn't inject other things.

-Roger has a tough sell when he's asking a jury to not trust a guy Roger trusted enough to bare his bottom to, and allowed him to inject drugs therein.

-Roger's obviously spending his fortune on the legal version of a full court press,as now we see allegations about McNamee popping up in Florida from several years ago. How does that become public now? Coincidence?

Roger may well be innocent of using illegal drugs. He might be guilty. He might have convinced McNamee he was going to make his life miserable, which is one of many possible explanations for "What do you want me to do? "I'll go to jail", etc. (which is why he should have never made that phone call).

I've tried a case where a party recorded a conversation without the other's knowledge, and then tried to use it against them, and the reaction of the trial judge was pure unadulterated anger at the guy that tried to be such a sneak.

Let's send all these guys away somewhere to an island and let them throw mud at each other, and leave our game alone.

tr, Maybe it was an extreme makeover and not a shopping trip at all?



Clemens logic is so convoluted now, his explanations get wackier every time he opens his mouth. By the time Congress is done with him it will all be over.

"Steriods don't help" They don't?

"I popped Vioxx like Skittles"

"I would never jeopardize my health"

"Where did I get them?" as if drug dealers are going to go on Oprah to claim they sold to him. They hand out jail time for that.

I don't tell my friend if I have done something that I know they would not approve of, because I am ashamed of what I have done.

Hold your head up and fight, Roger.

Let me say this-I am not a Clemens fan---he can be as snotty as Bonds---BUT I still say I will and cannot convict the man without solid proof---and when you factor in the people he is dealing with there are one zillion questions to be resolved


We all have made a load of posts on here but what do we know about any of the posters other than what we have deciphered or assumed from the profiles and posts unless of course you have met the poster face to face

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, you only need a believeable eye witness..
Clemens is getting beat up pretty bad here.
Taping a converstaion without the knowledge of the other part is illegal in Texas. Clemens comes on trying to show how concerned he is about the guy and launches a lawsuit the next day. Not a nice guy.

Bobble

Correct me if I am wrong but did not Clemens lawyer state that it was legal in NY and Texas?

If Roger wouldn't use illegal drugs to enhance his performance, then where did he get b-12 and lidocane from? Those are prescription meds to be administered by MD's in the MD's office. By definition, without a prescription, those are then illegal drugs.

So now he has essentially admitted that he has no problem aquiring and using drugs he deems he needs by any means neccesary rather than by lawful means.

SHOCKER!!!

TR all the sports writers are saying it is illegal and it is also necessary to have beeps every few seconds to alert the other party that the converastion is being taped.

Texas and taping
Click on state-by-state guide and then Texas.

It is legal to tape in some state, illegal in others. Where I live, it is illegal. I was once taped without consent by a publishing company trying to collect on a book I didn't order. When they played a tape of it for me, I contacted a lawyer friend who wrote them one of the nastiest letters I have ever read. I would have been terrified to get that letter. I never heard from them again.

I would be pretty darn sure Clemens lawyer had that issue well in hand before allowing it.

Bobblehead

No disprespect to sports writers but they are not lawyers

Did you not hear Hardin say it was legal in TX and NY?


Do you really think a lawyer in this situation would do what was done if it were not legal?

Provided by 3finger

Texas Penal Code § 16.02: So long as a wire, **** or electronic communication — including the radio portion of any cordless telephone call — is not recorded for a criminal or tortious purpose, anyone who is a party to the communication, or who has the consent of a party, can lawfully record the communication and disclose its contents.

Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "**** communication," Texas Code Crim. Pro. Art. 18.20.

Unlawful recording of a conversation, or disclosure of its contents with reason to know of the illegal interception, is a felony punishable by two to 20 years in prison and a fine not to exceed $10,000. Texas Penal Code § 12.33. A civil cause of action is expressly authorized for unlawful interception or disclosure. Texas Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code § 123.002. The plaintiff may be entitled to $10,000 for each occurrence, actual damages in excess of $10,000, punitive damages and attorney fees and costs. Texas Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code § 123.004.

The U.S. Court of Appeals in New Orleans (5th Cir.) held in 2000 that a television station and reporter who had been given illegally obtained tapes of telephone conversations, but who had not participated in the illegal recording, could nonetheless be held civilly liable under the federal and Texas wiretapping statutes. Peavy v. WFAA-TV, Inc., 221 F.3d 158 (5th Cir. 2000). The case was appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court along with two other cases raising similar issues. The Supreme Court refused to hear the Texas case but decided in one of the other cases, Bartnicki v. Vopper, that media defendants could not be held liable for publishing information of public concern that was obtained unlawfully by a source where the media were blameless in the illegal interception. Following the Bartnicki decision, the parties in the Peavy case settled out of court.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports&id=5878931

This puts another slant on McNamee's credibility to me~

quote:

Originally posted by curveball07:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports&id=5878931

This puts another slant on McNamee's credibility to me~

McNamee is obviously of extremely questionable character. However, he acurately implicated Pettite. Why would anybody in baseball associate with such a low life for so long, and even bring him around their family? I would even never tell him where I lived.

Clemens cited the incident as an example of McNamee's dishonesty in a defamation lawsuit filed Sunday in Texas

Sounds like character *** in the press. He might have lied but Roger kept letting him stick needles in his butt.
Detectives don't believe anyone to start with and to publish his beliefs is very interesting and not substatiated in court.
A trainer who injects roids is just as bad as the injectee.

So the Florida case was enough to get McNamee fired from the Yankees, but Clemens then hired him? Clemens is using the case to defame McNamee's character which would mean he knew/thought the guy did it and lied....so why did he hire him? Rehab???

Clemens has an interesting take on that whole 'logic' concept.

Should this whole thing ever go before a jury (not that I believe it would), I could see it being one of those you're-both-crazy-somebody-gets-awarded-$1 outcomes.

All I can say is ICK!
In the taped conversation it was mentioned that McNamee's son was dying. Anyone know anything about this?

Hey Bobblehead-

Wasn't Conseco on the same team up in Toronto when Clemens was there?

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
So the Florida case was enough to get McNamee fired from the Yankees, but Clemens then hired him? Clemens is using the case to defame McNamee's character which would mean he knew/thought the guy did it and lied....so why did he hire him? Rehab???

Clemens has an interesting take on that whole 'logic' concept.

O - that is a great observation IMO.

At this point - and given what we already know (from Pettitte and from Roger's own admission that he was a walking talking drug machine) - all Clemens can do at this point is attack McNamee's credibility.

So we put our helmets on - and get ready for some truly sickening legal stuff.

I do believe - that ultimately - Roger being the insatiable guy that he is - is going to lose. And lose big.

I am also hoping that they - the lawyers - the trainers and the Fehrs/Bonds/etc... go away real soon.