What would you do at this point?

Too many pitches. Reduce to three for control.

do u know the word "control"

 

Bob

Off the top of my head.....just a few questions

 

1) What is your exposure strategy to get in front of the right college coaches?  If team showcasing isn't working have you thought about individual showcasing or camps for targeted schools?

2) Is your travel coach, Legion coach or high school coach involved in your process?

3) Have you followed up with the 8 schools that called him

4) Have you extended your geography for possible additional college program interest?

 

 

Bob,

Did you read what he has done his last 3 starts part? He has command and control of all 5 of his pitches...the issue is his Velo...he said his latest start he was hitting spots all day...he could hit a dime if the catcher asked him. He threw a 1 hit shut out...does it get any better for command? LOL thanks for the response.

 

What his stats are for the last 3 outings are really meaningless because none of us know the competition he is pitching against. An 85 mph RHP is nothing special in the big scheme of things. Yes, there is potential to get more velocity since he is 6'5" tall, but quite frankly with his grades and ACT score, he's going to have a tough time with a D1 school. I'd get him some pitching lessons to work on his velocity and get him some tutoring to get his ACT scores up. If he does that, many more doors will be open to him.

Good luck!!

Its not his pitching, its his GPA and ACT.

You are worrying about the wrong things.

Get a commitment to a JUCO.

JMO

Yeah we are planning on redoing the ACT for sure. That was his first attempt and the practice tests he was taking he scored 28s...but he said the timing on those practice tests was done differently from the real deal. He isn't worried says he will do much better the second time...Thanks guys for the responses I really appreciate it! Have a great night.

We are just starting this process as my son is a couple years behind yours. However, every scout and college coach that has talked to him has stressed the importance of grades and test scores. In the most recent example, the scout specifically said that a kid with a 3.5 gpa will almost always get recruited over the kid with the 2.8 gpa, given equal talent. There is concern about keeping kids academically eligible in college, so the better the high school grades the more confident a coach is. Is there any way he can retake the ACT and try to get that score up? Sometimes that can offset a lower gpa.

Also, taking some time to increase velocity might pay off. Velocity is king. It seems like control should be worth something, but it's not as important as velo. He definitely sounds like he has the size to throw hard. You didn't say (or I didn't see) if your son is a RHP or LHP. Lefties seem to have a little more leeway in the velocity department, but not much.

Good luck!

He will not get a D1 offer at 85MPH as a RHP.  No one cares about stats and pitches, college coaches can teach pitching, they can't teach velocity. (actually not 100% true, but D1's don't have the time)

 

He fits the physical profile for a good D3, but does not really have the academics for them. (to get academic $$)

 

I agree with TPM, start looking for a good JC that can develop pitchers. 

 

2016 Dad,

I think there is a fundamental disconnect between a parent looking at their son pitching and a college recruiting coach looking at the exact same pitcher in the exact same game.

Clearly, your son appears to be doing well against the level of HS/travel competition, probably better than well.

However, that type of success will  be, largely, irrelevant for any college coach watching him.

The college coach is watching the same thing but could care less about 99% of the hitters. What that college coach is visualizing is whether what they are seeing will improve and progress enough to get out college hitters starting in about 13 months.

The college coaches are also comparing what they are seeing with your son with 20, 30, 40, 50 other pitchers they might be watching.

In essence, those who have their livelihood depending on what they are seeing seem to be saying, with the silence or other messages, that what you are seeing does not translate in the college game they coach, especially when contrasted with many other pitchers they see and you don't.

To be honest, you cannot take this personally and cannot build how much you have spent or are spending into the process.  I would bet your son may be feeling incredible pressure which is only going to increase if there are no offers  as November approaches.

Perhaps it is time to rethink the approach for the next 4-5 months in light of the GPA and ACT scores, the comments of  experienced and very reliable posters and some realization that what have posted does not translate all that well to being successful in D1 college baseball, when measured by how much better good D1 college hitters are than those you have seen over the last 3 games or this Summer..

 

 

 

 

Hi 2016 Dad, welcome to the site.  You are getting some excellent advice from some very well-qualified folks.  In case you aren't aware, most of those replying have kids who have completed very successful college and/or professional baseball playing careers and have been through the process as well as been instrumental in guiding others thru it.  I only point this out so that you may be more inclined to take their words to heart.  You sort of laughed off "Bob"'s suggestion about too many pitches.  Well, Bob is, for all intents, the founder of the area code games.  I have been around organized ball for over forty years and I have never seen a HS pitcher with the degree of command of five pitches that you suggest your son has.  So, I am in the same camp as Bob.  Your son may be the exception and exactly as you describe (BTW, 1-hit shutout does not definitively verify - could be low competition, free-swinging team who hit balls right at, etc, etc.).  Don't know - never saw him.  If he does, in fact, have that much control and is still lacking serious attention from schools, that would point to what others have stated.  Grade issues or non-performance related concerns, perhaps not the right approach to recruiting, not the right follow-up, doesn't present himself well when talking to coaches, not the appropriate target level.  There is tons to be learned here.  Hope you can stick around and benefit fully.

Hey I hear you guys. I appreciate the comments and the insight. Yes I agree there are plenty of other kids out there they are watching. I guess when I have several college coaches say "If I get my hands on your kid he will be throwing 90 in no time." Then you don't hear from them again...its kind of odd...but like you said they might have found someone they don't have to do anything with. SO I agree with you all. He needs to get grades and yes I have already scheduled him to retake his ACT...I have confidence in that he will be at least at a 25 26 in ACT score by the end of this year. I will also get that Velo stuff going after this weekend. The quality of the teams he has pitched against has been very good actually. It should translate into some points in his favor but like you guys said...grades are a factor. If he can bust that GPA to 3.0 and maybe break the 25 26 mark bring the speed to plus 88 up...then we have a different scenario entirely LOL OK OK I Know...He has work to do and I am sure he is up to the challenge Thanks again guys I really appreciate it! Have a great night!

2016 Dad,

 

So, TPM went where I was going next (ACT scores) but I see that has been covered.  Why not sit down with his travel coach and review your son's and the travel coaches network of college coaches.  I suggest this because you have to identify if the travel is going to help him in the long run.  My son ended up pulling out of travel baseball in the middle of the summer as a rising senior.  We had offers but it wasn't the right offers, so we started focusing on individual showcases and camps where he would stand out.  This was vastly more effective use of money, time and focus for us.  I think you need to look at this differently....where can your son go to stand out and seperate himself?  I can't answer it but maybe you can or at least think about it.

 

Also, have him call those other 8 coaches that have been "watching" to see where they are in the process AND if they suggest other programs that might be a fit.  We had some very frank discussions with some recruiting coaches who were very helpful in pointing us to other programs that were a better fit either intentionally or unintentionally.  The point is you (and your son) are out there talking to coaches...networking, marketing and making contacts.  Yes, it is a lot of hard work.  Make sure your son is following up with any coaching contact.  

 

As a parent, we are programmed to think like a parent....think like a college recruiting coach and make their job easier.  Market and communicate to them in a way they understand.  They have a tough job.  Make their job easier.

 

I agree with the JUCO suggestion.  Yes, got to look at every option including D2, D3 and NAIA.   You've only mentioned D1 and that does not seem to be sticking.  Consider other levels and geographies.  Broaden the search to find the best fit.  Trust me, I know all about this one.  For the longest time my son was only considering schools in his home state.  He ended up 8 hours away.  Truth is he was willing to change his mind for what he really wanted  I realize people have budgets, but you only get one shot at this.  Task your son with finding the money to do it.  As always, JMO.

 

Good luck and keep the information flowing.  You're getting a lot of help from people that have been in your shoes and want to see your son get the right opportunity.

 

2016 Dad,

 

I think your son's college search will proceed more smoothly if you focus more on where he is now, both athletically and academically, and if you temper your expectations about how much he can improve in a short time.

 

Right now, your son's 19 on the ACT places him at the 42nd percentile. For him to score the 25 or 26 you expect on his re-test, which would place him at or above the 80th percentile, would be astonishing.  Most people who improve on a re-test after scoring a 19 on their first test score a 20 or a 21 the second time around. Test prep courses can help, but you are expecting a miracle.

 

Same story with the velo. The woods are full of RHPs who throw 85 and think the right injection of coaching or conditioning will get them to 90. Being 6'5" may increase your son's chances of being one of the few who make that jump. But it's not the sure thing you make it out to be.

 

Forget for a few minutes where your son might be if he makes low probability overnight leaps as a pitcher and a student.  Consider where he is right now. Right now your son throws 85 and has academic credentials that make him an academic risk at the D1 schools that would consider admitting him.  

 

A young man in his position with potential to improve in the classroom and on the mound is just about the textbook profile of a JUCO player.  If he hits the books and gets good coaching, he could be an outstanding D1 prospect in a couple years.  

 

I recommend looking in that direction until the expected improvements become actual.

 

Best wishes,

 

Hey thanks for the candid information I appreciate it. I think as a parent sometimes you get caught up in the moment and you need outside eyes to help refocus the facts. He has been contacted by about 20 D2/D3/NAIA schools. I don't know about JUCOs. We live in the Chicagoland area and do not know what would be considered a great JUCO or NAIA school that would be great at helping him in his VELO as well as helping him with getting better with his grades. I honestly don't mind if he moves away if it will help him get better. My expectations on the ACT were because in his practice tests he was hitting 28s. When he took the test for real he came home and said he didn't think the proctors of the practice tests were implementing them with the proper time frame...he said he ran out of time on the real one. Kind of frustrating because I paid for that class to help him with it. The Velo I have suggested, I again am only going by what D1 recruiters have said to us about getting their hands on him and being able to get him High 80s and maybe into the low 90s...I am only going with the information I am being supplied by those who I would expect to know what they are talking about. I do appreciate the advice to look at different phases now...my son has his dreams of playing for a D1 school...but maybe a JUCO is the best place for him. The question is...What is considered the best JUCOs to go play for in the country? I am in the Midwest but...what are the top programs in the country who have success with pitchers? Again I am thankful to everyone who has posted on this thing with advice it is very appreciated.

Lots of great advice here.  JUCO is certainly a good option.  Keep in mind, in two years, you will be going thru all this recruiting stuff again with that route.  Given that, make sure when you are looking into JUCO's, you look into their track record of placing players in 4 year schools.  Talk to the coaches about what they do and the relationships they have with 4 year schools.  Look on their websites to see if they list past players and where they went on to play.  It is very important that you get support with that from the program because it will not be much different than what you are doing now without that support.  Hope that makes sense.

 

The other option is a D2 school.  There are MANY top D2 schools that could play with almost any D1 school.  They could certainly play with a lot of mid level D1 schools.  They are generally much easier to get in and are always looking for good pitchers.  If you can get hooked up with a top D2 program, you may have the opportunity to get to Regionals and possibly the World Series every year if you get on a good one.  Playing on a mid level D1, that opportunity is hard to come by.  

 

Here is a link to the NCAA D2 Rankings page for the end of the year last year.  You can look thru that and see if there are any schools near you that you may be interested in.  Start contacting and see if there is any interest, providing you are interested in that option.

 

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/baseball/d2

 

2016 Dad,

 

Read carefully what Infieldad and fenwayshouth have posted. Lots of experience there.

 

I am going to give you an almost parallel story to your son. His name is Ben Klimesh, he is about as close a story as you can get to your boy. He is from the Chicago area, was a big kid with not a lot of D1 attention coming out of HS, as he was throwing in the 85 range also. He ended up going to Trinity University in TX, and with the help of their pitching coach developed into one of the top D3 pitchers in the country, had a very successful career there, and was drafted a couple of years ago and is a rising prospect in the Reds organization.  Go look him up in the archives at Trinity you will be surprised how parallel his story is to your situation.

 

The point is that there are options but as fenway pointed out you will have to change directions some to find him a spot. Just so you know there are tons of high quality D3 programs not far from you, Marietta, (OH) has historically one of the top D3 programs in the country, and there are others. You can find all you need at www.d3baseball.com , they have message boards there with some additional information on programs if you dig around. 

 

The point is to change your perspective and approach and with some work there is no question in my mind that he can find a place to play, have a great college career and get a good education.

 

Good luck.

 

PS: My son was also very similar to yours coming out of HS, he was mostly an 85er, but jumped up to 87-89 late in HS and got some D1 attention, went to a D3 and had a nice career.  

 

 

I'm going to try to rein you in again. The "best JUCOs" are getting 90+ guys, too. Partly because they get guys who are looking to get drafted after one year and also some guys with academic issues.

 

Great advice from bballman above... and others. First, figure out which is the best choice for your son, JuCo or a 4-year college. Lots of JuCo guys transfer to DII/DIII colleges after they graduate. If your son already has interest from DII/DIII, he may be better off skipping JuCo.

 

If he does choose JuCo, you don't have to search the country for the best program. You probably have lots of options within a 2 hour drive. Set up visits, and go throw for them. Look for a connection with the pitching coach. Are they using some kind of velocity program that makes sense to you?

 

Lots a quality JUCOs in the Chicagoland area.  One in southern IL that I would look at is John Logan.  My understanding is they have a pretty good baseball program.  Good luck.  http://www.jalc.edu/

I don't want to pile on, but scoring a 19 and thinking he is going to vastly improve his score the next time, is probably not going to happen.  He may improve a few points, but I am not sure it will be enough to move the needle.

 

As a 2.8 GPA student with a low 20's ACT, he should probably consider the JC route as suggested by several posters in this thread.  Going the JC route could help him both athletically and academically. 

 

Good Luck!

Great post!  I think you pretty much covered everything!

While I can't personally say who's running the pitching part of the program.JJC ( Joiliet Jr. College) in Joliet.Il. along with KCC (Kankakee community College) Are Continually either in the JC world series or a win or two away.May be worth looking into.

I'm re-reading the posts here....  Like many others, my first thought was JUCO.  However...

 

This may be a longshot but it occurs to me that, with a relatively low GPA and a low ACT but a good ACT practice performance, maybe your son is one of those who are smart but don't test well.  If so, someone like this can really flourish in a small (usually private) school setting where there is a high teacher/student ratio and plenty of academic guidance along the way.  There are plenty of those schools which also have good baseball programs, usually D3 or NAIA. 

 

If this is, in fact, the type of student your son is, this can be a huge difference-maker for him in ways far beyond baseball and far beyond his college days.  At the same time, he can have a great college baseball career along the way. 

 

These schools often have plenty of financial aid options that bring their total costs close to what you would pay for Big State U.  Even more so for good pitchers.   

i know a kid who got a 19 on his first ACT and a 30 on his second.  A plethora of doors opened after that second ACT score according to his dad.   Was headed for JC at one point.  Got into some very good schools in the end. (He's a lacrosse player, not a baseball player though.)   Don't decide anything definite until the kid re-takes the ACT.

This is a great thread.  Thanks for starting it, 2016 Dad, and thanks to everyone else for their thoughtful responses.

I would think this example is the exception and not the rule.  That fact that his GPA is relatively average, makes me believe a miracle is not going to happen here, but who knows...

Here's where you stand, as I see it (reading between the lines). He's being followed by D1 programs, but not offered or shown the kind of interest that would indicate an offer is coming. Why? Well, he's not a high choice from them because he throws 85 and the academic numbers are troubling. However, he hasn't been shown the door because , well, he's 6' 5". What he is, for these schools, is a last resort. If they don't fill the class as hoped and he's still around, someone may be willing to take a flyer. But you won't see that until very late in the game. He also couldn't expect to get many opportunities if he is picked up late. You've been offered the best advice already - JC. At a JC, you're more likely to find a PC that gives him some attention, he basically gets to reset the grade situation (a 2.8 ain't going up appreciably in his senior year), and after a year or two at a JC, the low ACT score is irrelevant. Spend a year or two in an environment where he will actually get the chance to develop in a competitive atmosphere and, if he improves, the D1 opportunities will be a lot better than if he goes to one now, gets little chance for development, and sits the bench unnoticed.

definitely the exception rather than the rule. 

Although the overall GPA isn't going up appreciably in the senior year, if he shows by his first semester senior year grades that he has turned over a new leaf academically, that can go some way to getting him over the hump -- especially at PRIVATE colleges and Universities.  Perhaps not at the most selective schools.  But there are many strong though not top schools that will take a flier on a kid that shows significant improvement 7th semester after a mediocre start.   I know this first hand from my own kid's case, by the way. Probably wouldn't have gotten into most of the schools he got into without significantly better 7th semester grades.

 

 Of course, for a D1 school and scholarship money banking on that approach is probably not a high yield strategy at all.  You'd be very, very late to the game.   So if he is dead SET on trying to compete at a D1, then two years at a  JC is probably the best route.  But if he's open to a highly competitive D3 baseball wise, and can get his senior grades up and improve his ACT there are still other options than the JC route.

 

Depends on what he wants.

 

 

 

He has a 2.8 GPA. In what honors classes, advance placement? That won't cut it for most D1 programs.

Not on its own, not by a long shot.  But if a school does holistic evaluation for admissions some kids with substandard GPA's can get in.  the rest of it has to be strong, including letters of recommendation, personal essays, extra-curricular's,etc. Plus the kid has to show improvement and self-understanding.   Why is the GPA so low?  Why should the school except you to do better in the future?  Does your 7th semester show significant improvement over previous semesters? 

 

Because many D1's are large state universities those questions won't even get asked at those sort of schools.  But some private D1's will do holistic admissions.  Those tend to be highly selective though.  So it's a rough slog.   But it's not impossible. 

 

Even the UC system here in California admits up to 6% of kids who don't meet the official admission criteria.  But a kid has to make a case.   Many athletes and many with special talents -- like artistic talents -- get in this way.

This may be a longshot but it occurs to me that, with a relatively low GPA and a low ACT but a good ACT practice performance, maybe your son is one of those who are smart but don't test well.

I didn't used to believe these scenarios - but I do believe these things occur now.  My daughter is one of those...not the best test scores...however, she works her a$$ off and she is blowing it away in a big State U. engineering program.  Very high GPA in HS and now in college.  Test scores not that good - basically got admitted on probation to prove she could do it.  She has...in spades.

 

But there's a difference here - this kid's GPA isn't very high (2.8) suggesting either he has some maturing to do or it would be awfully tough to cut it academically in college baseball at this time.  What would give a coach confidence he can cut it?  He may indeed be very smart, but he hasn't really applied himself yet.  Lots of people are late bloomers academically.  Heck, I was probably one of those.  But he's gotta prove it first.

 

Do whats best for your kid - find the best JC or 4-year school for HIM that gives him a chance to develop in academics, baseball (if you wish)...and life.   You'll be glad you did down the road.

It's true...True hard to raise a 2.8 much at this point, but a good first semester can show something to schools. Late in the game, but I was waiting for someone to suggest taking the SAT. Most schools accept either test score. Some students do better on one than the other. Not saying poster's son will score 90th percentile, but would put him on a different scale, perhaps slightly more favorable.  East/West coast used to be SAT dominated, whereas ACT was a midwest requirement. Knew son of our former realtor that pitched for school in the Lisle area--can't recall its name.

Hey thanks again guys for the posts! I have been reading every one of them and in fact I read them to my son. Yes his GPA is not the best. I am sure its a bit of everything. He has not applied himself in the books like he should...he would and I would be the first to admit this. He isn't a dumb kid nor is he bad at school...he just didn't apply himself like he should have and I hate to say it...but I told him when he started High school to work hard...as hard as he does in sports but...I don't think it hit home like it should have. He works his tail off in sports...there is no one that works harder on his teams...he just started working out with the football team and he made it a point to beat the running back on the team who is the fastest guy 13 times in a row LOL The coach laughed but my kid wants to be the QB...coach said hardest working athlete on the team and most competitive is usually the QB...my kid took that as the path to being the QB...beating the RB LOL The fact is he doesn't really know what he wants to be when he grows up...he just knows right now he isn't done with trying to keep going in baseball...he really feels like he can make the next jump with the right help with coaching on his mechanics.  Guys I really appreciate all the words of experience and the words of direction. I have really appreciated them. We just got called by a D2 school tonight...my son will call the coach back. I think he now realizes what he has to do to move to the next step and he will do his best to do that. I also called and spoke with a very good JUCO coach tonight in the Midwest area...it looks good he has seen my kid pitch...seems interested...so we will see. Thanks again for the posting and I will keep reading everyone that puts one up! Its greatly appreciated!

 

PS You know 2.8 is almost a B Average? I mean is every D1 D2 D3 student athlete pulling 4.0s? I mean you cant tell me that all D1 schools that are athletic competitive are just touting 4.0 athletes...that's seems to be a bit of a stretch.

 

That's good 2016.  But, your son should be making the calls.  Time for him to step up for what he wants, not just with the on-field efforts.  He needs to realize that the "school" part of playing baseball in school is a pretty big deal.  No, he doesn't have to have a 4.0 but there is a huge gap between 4.0 and 2.8.  The college coaches see a 2.8 and wonder how the heck he is going to stay eligible when he has the significant added burdens of heavy time commitments to baseball, being on his own for the first time with school work and possibly living on his own.  If he is borderline getting by while living in the comforts of home and with the guidance of parents and HS teachers, that is a potential red flag to coaches.  The last thing they want to worry about is if the player can remain academically eligible. 

 

It may also be a red flag that dad is making the calls for him with his college recruiting efforts.  Now that we have the added info, I think it's best to give it to you straight.  In regards to school and driving his recruiting, you need to let go a bit and he needs to pick it up a lot.  Yes, be there to advise, guide and parent but it's time for him to step it up and take care of the business end if he really wants it.

 

If it makes you feel better I was about a 3.5 gpa in high school in the early 80's and made an 18 on my ACT.  The first semester of college I almost flunked out.  My second year I buckled down and started studying my azz off.  My third year I transferred to an engineering school where I finished with a 2.9 GPA.  

Now I'm not sure I could have done any of that while trying to play a sport. 

Cabbagedad...not sure what gave you the idea I was making the calls for my son with regards to recruiting or talking to scouts...I haven't talked to a one of them...he has been the one to talk to each of them when they call...I give him the phone and he does the talking...not sure what else I can do. I don't see anywhere in any of my posts where I have said I am the one doing the calling or doing the talking...he has done all of that. Seems you are a bit confused on this point. Also it all in my kids hands when it comes to making decisions I merely let him bounce his thinking off me and I give him the scenarios he has to choose from. Is this not what a parent does??? LOL

This is the quote I was referring to.   Glad to hear I am at least somewhat wrong on that.

Yeah that is a spellchecker mytype. He contacted us today and we age our
son the info. Sorry to jump on you. We have made very sure he is the one to
do the talking to the coaches...our travel team explained this is how
things are done 2 years ago.