Where's the humility?

fills

Just try and ignore them

fillsfan,
You have brought up a good point that also has been bothering me lately.

In all of the years that I have been here, have never seen so much stuff of daily recounts, complaints, etc. from parents of pre HS players. BTW, many years ago the pre HS thread was created and CD had an excellent idea about HS and college reporting and pro baseball has it's own place.

Maybe it is the sign of our times. Maybe people don't realize that in this game, you do pay your dues, and if you haven't, you don't learn from anything.

I look at it this way, it takes years to raise a child, any child, and it isn't easy raising those that have passion and goals at a very early age, that includes other interests just not sports (though a good problem to have). The biggest thing is keeping it all in perspective, which isn't really hard to do. Worrying about where your child will end up in 5-6 years in baseball makes no sense to me. It's a long journey, it does go by quickly, but many bumps along the way, good times and bad ones, literally a roller coaster ride. I also believe many of todays parents don't take enough time to enjoy what their kids are doing right at that moment. If they made the team, as a freshman, they are stressing they aren't playing enough, or they made JV and should be on Varsity, etc. Or the coach is an idiot because he is playing the senior when their sophmore is better. HS baseball is just ONE avenue, don't rely on that alone to get to Big State U.
As I posted once before, I think as a pitcher, my son sat more on the HS bench for 3 years than most of you would be happy with. I'll bet many of you would be asking coach, WHY, he is THE best, why do you make him sit the bench? We never worried about it, we just made sure that was not his only option to show off his skills and he never asked for more time until he was a senior. Was he happy, no, but he paid his dues.

Looking back now, I understand the reasons.

For us, middle school and early HS years were the just for fun years (actually it gets more fun as it goes along), yes, our kid had the dream planted in his brain early, just like everyone elses who was playing LL. But we kept it in perspective and kept the kid focused on being a good kid first, student second, baseball player last. My son thanks us for that now, for not placing any pressure on him during those early years, because those years are for enjoyment, there is enough pressure that comes later down the road. Trsut me.

The think I hear usually is, oh no, I am not pressuring him, this is something that HE really wants. Yeah right, they ALL want it. How you handle going about achieving that goal with him, beleive it or not, will determine if he stays in the game.

I'll bet there are a lot of folks here who tell their young kids everyday, they are better than any other player on his team. Bad stuff folks, the object is, they HAVE to figure that out for themselves and it takes years to do so. Even when you do think that you have arrived (high school team, college team, milb, MLB, etc) you are still trying to figure it out. It never stops.

JMO.

fillsfan - I agree with you.

TPM - good post.

All I know is my son had to pay his dues and fight for his spots year in and year out until he got to sniff the varsity level in the middle of his junior year. He did become an impact player his senior year, but he was more than ready to step in and be one of the leaders on varsity. While he would've like to have made varsity and start from day one junior year, he just kept playing where ever he was told to and not get caught up in all that stuff and have fun. In his four years in the system, varsity carried 8-10 seniors every year until this year when the well ran dry and are rebuilding with youth.

There's a team in our area who's a perennial powerhouse that have seven or eight varsity newcomers who are all seniors. This is a program that relies on older players to carry the load and apparently, it works. Knowing this program, these seniors will be impact players and even though they were playing only jv ball as juniors.

TPM ....really well put.

And perhaps they should start a "Highlight Reel" forum so those who want to can ignore it. It's OK to brag but IMO it's better to be humble.

Since my son has retired from professional baseball, I now have a better understanding of what professional baseball is all about. While my son was playing pro ball, his 3 years as a college player suddenly came into focus. While he was playing college baseball, I understood what his four years as a high school player was all about. If we are to enjoy the moment as we all profess when it comes to sports then it makes little difference what 8th grade or HS baseball REALLY is. It is what YOU want it to be ---- not what I can tell you it REALLY is.

I have a saying over my computer that may help describe how I feel about this:
The philosophies of one age have become the absurdities of the next, and the foolishness of yesterday has become the wisdom of tomorrow.
Mark Twain

In the end, sometinmes it's better to just let the peeps just go thru it and find out thru experience. Anybody can be told how this or that should work but you really don't get it until you go thru it.

quote:

The philosophies of one age have become the absurdities of the next, and the foolishness of yesterday has become the wisdom of tomorrow.
Mark Twain

Very nice Fungo.

I also want to say that I really admire recent posts by FrankF, Orlando, 20dad and luvbb.

These posts open up their hearts at a time of disappointment and reflection. Most posters go away, silently, when their son's baseball days come to a close. These parents have let you peak into the heartbreak at the closing moment, let you see some reflections on it all and talk about the times that follow.

Does anyone else here remember Bob Howdesheshell's post when he described the disappointment when his son wasn't drafted? I sure do...and it must've been 5 years ago. THAT was one big-time KEEPER of a post.

I thank them for having the "humility" to share what I imagine are pretty personal moments with the rest of us.

quote:

I also want to say that I really admire recent posts by FrankF, Orlando, 20dad and luvbb.

I do too, justbaseball.............

Thanks for posting that.

Well said TPM.

Fungo, I agree that each step up the ladder puts the past step into perspective. Great advice.

It is hard to see this when we are in the middle of the early steps, but a little humility along the way isn't much to ask.

Bragging or 'tootintg one's own horn' should be taken as someone sharing their pride and joy at a player's success. There is never anything wrong with sharing joy.

The complaining parents are the victims of coaches not explaining their programs. In the first meeting with parents and players, the coach should lay out his program. The understanding that the young players have to work their way into that program. The ethic of loyalty to the upper-classplayers who know the program and have paid their dues.

It's all a matter of perception.

Humility should always be a personal pursuit and never a standard of judgement of others.

Wow, what spin.

I don't mind parents bragging about how their sons are doing in baseball....Just don't think because they are great now that it will be an easy ride.

Some absolutely great posts here. This thread needed to happen and just like that it happened. That's part of the beauty of this place.

The tension between the experienced and inexperienced, the coaches and parents, the organizations and players, will never go away entirely. Funny thing is most end up switching sides eventually. Live and learn. Perhaps understanding and acknowledging the tension is the best way to deal with it. Compassion and education, these are two of the primary tenets of this site.

It's so easy, almost guaranteed, that we get caught up in junior's early success. As parents we love to capitalize on that success and deny the little setbacks. Those rose colored glasses go on early for most parents, along with the seductive Sirens for Success soundtrack. But those little setbacks are usually there for a reason, a reason unbeknownst until much later in life. Baseball, in all of it's celebration of greatness, is all about learning how to fail with grace and dignity. These are hard lessons.

Hey, I'm as guilty as the next person for bragging on my own and cheerleading others here. But thanks to some sage advice I've learned that a little goes a long way. Sit back and enjoy the ride folks. As FO is known to say, "fun, ain't it?"

Well written, thoughtful posts by very experienced parents/posters that we should all take note of. Babeball as we have all learned will eventually humble all of us at one time or another.

Spizzlepop, justbaseball, and Obs 44 are some of the nicest, most knowledgabel people I've ever met. When they speak, people listen. I just think some posters need to learn some bumility as there is a fine line between bragging and being proud. Some of the best players I've ever met had the most humble parents.

At the risk of sounding like I am tooting, that is a good post spizzlepop............

quote:

The tension between the experienced and inexperienced, the coaches and parents, the organizations and players, will never go away entirely.

I've been on the ride for a long time now, and, even as this is written, am about an hour away from knowing whether my son is at the top or the bottom of the coaster.

quote:

I've learned that a little goes a long way. Sit back and enjoy the ride folks. As FO is known to say, "fun, ain't it?"

Thanks for the reminder spizzlepop.

A little advice for parents of younger kids when someone more experienced attempts to provide advice: Rather than fight it, print out your post, put away somewhere and read it in five years. Chances are you'll have a good laugh at yourself.

Enjoy the moment. There are plenty of can't miss prospects who missed. A high draft pick from our high school was released after two years hitting sub .200. A kid who had a career .500+ batting average is now hitting .210 at a D2 after two unsuccessful years at a D1. Do you think their dads saw this in their future upon graduation from high school.

quote:

Originally posted by Ozone:
TPM ....really well put.

And perhaps they should start a "Highlight Reel" forum so those who want to can ignore it. It's OK to brag but IMO it's better to be humble.

It was a very good post. Most don't need to worry about being humble. The game usually takes care of that for you.

quote:

What makes this site great is the humble advice we all get from the families who've already gone through what we are presently going through. Very valuable stuff. That is what got me addicted to this site.

quote:

fills

Just try and ignore them

TRhit

Yes, this is valuable stuff.

How's this-

Son was a decent player, no stud, just an average player. I was happy and proud.

Son played varsity baseball and was the ace his senior year. I was surprised, happy and proud.

Son made (second) team all district. I was surprised, happy and proud.

Son was asked to pitch on a top select program. I was surprised, happy and proud.

Son was recruited and signed by a mid-level D1. I was surprised, happy and proud.

Son was able to contribute his freshman year and I was surprised, happy and proud.

Son is contributing this his sophomore year. I'm surprised, happy and proud.

If son continues his journey after college, you got it, I will be surprised, happy and proud.

If son is done, I will be very, very proud!

That's the last you will here about my son.
I really am very humble.

Danny,
I hope JMoff does not mind my taking this post and pasting it here:
"Freshman son's first varsity loss on Friday night. 4 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 K. Fell behind hitters all night and had the 3 BB's. You can't fall behind hitters and expect to win.

<Now the dad rationalizations>
Wind was blowing out at 35 mph. Several balls hit to the OF (deep) dropped in the wind. He actually was helped by a runner stretching a double to a triple and getting thrown out.

The big play was in the fourth where he got a dribbler to SS with 2 outs, but there was no play. Made a great pitch, just didn't work out. Next hitter hit a deep fly to left center and scored the 2 ER's, another ball that gets caught on a 'normal' night. He left after getting the next hitter. Lost 4-2.

Other pitcher threw a flat out gem, had us off balance all night and we'd prepared for him. Did a great job."

For me, that is just a wonderfully informative post.
I understand and can read the pride about the freshman son. I can read it in the context of a game and, for me at least, it is all about baseball because it reflects that someone else on the field also did their job.
I am not sure whether we call it humility or accuracy.
It just seems to reflect baseball, pride in JMoff's son and a night/game when the other pitcher did his job, too.
Most of our son's don't win or lose games by themselves.
One reason I always loved reading and listening to interviews done by justbb's son Erik: within the first 2 sentences he was talking about the other guys on the field and how they made the win possible.
If he suffered a L, it was him.
W's were/are shared with a team.
L's: I didn't do my job.
Maybe our son's reflect their parents.
Maybe our posts reflect our sons, maybe they don't.
I know for justbb, his posts truly are reflective of his sons.
I am not sure if this is humility or just the way the game is played. For me, at least, it is a good fit.

Hey y'all have to check out FO's new avatar. Hella cool baby!!

In the beginning of the year I was bummed that I didn't make varsity, but I have gotten so much better being the ace on JV this year. Being a mop up guy on varsity would do nothing for me, and I am much more prepared for varsity by playing JV as a Sophomore.

Playing varsity as early as you can is not always a good thing. Compare it to major leaguers who get brought up too early.

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:

quote:

The philosophies of one age have become the absurdities of the next, and the foolishness of yesterday has become the wisdom of tomorrow.
Mark Twain

FO, ok I have been wondering all day what the word was, you sly guy!

Marlins

You have the picture in focus---better to play than to be getting spinters--especially as a sophomore

There are all types of baseball folks on this site. There are the people that have kids just breaking into the middle school age ranks. People who have kids that are just breaking into the hs baseball ranks. People who have kids that are in the midst of their hs baseball careers. People who have kids just entering college baseball. People who have kids that are in the midst of their college baseball careers. People who have kids that are just entering pro ball. People that have kids that are in the midst of their pro career. People thats kids are out of the game. Coaches that coach at all levels of play or used to coach at all levels of play. And I am sure I missed some folks along the way.

So what you have are a bunch of people with all types of different perspectives and different experiences in the game at all different levels of the game. I do not expect anyone to have the same thinking process about baseball or the same outlook on things that I do. I understand that until you get there and have done that you really just dont know. You think you know , but you really dont know.

I have coached for a long time and I have had many players go on to play at the college level and several players go on to play pro ball even play in the show. But they were not my kids. I loved them , I cared for them , but they still were not my kids. At each level my son reached I sought out advice from those that had been there and done that. I wanted to hear what they had to say and I wanted to hear what their experience was. It has been a very valuable soure of information over the years.

There is one thing I think that people really do not understand and have a hard time understanding when it comes to this great game. Hard times and tough breaks only make a player a better player , a more humble person , a tougher player and a better man. No matter how long you play no matter how far this game takes you , you will have to overcome obstacles and you will have to learn how to be a man in the game. There is nothing more fullfilling as as parent than to see your child struggle and claw and have to fight to overcome adversity - and then do it.

Why? Because you know that they will be able to stand on their own and face these same type of tough situations on their own when you are no longer around to assist them. Having to fight for something you really want is a wonderful and beautiful thing. It makes you appreciate it , it makes you love it even more and it gives you a feeling inside that money can not buy.

For those people that have not been through those struggles , those situations that many here have been through you will understand these posts much better in a few years.

There are some outstanding posts in this thread. Here are a few personal anecdotes that speak to the benefits of struggling....

Growing up, my son always played shortstop -- every inning, every game. During his 16U summer, he was moved to 2B when the 2nd baseman was injured, and he struggled adjusting to the position. He began making errors and started imploding. It was a horrible summer. The next summer, we requested that his select director not play him at all at 2B. The director refused our request, saying our son needed to become a more versatile infielder. Lo and behold, son mastered the position during that summer. This came in very handy a few weeks ago, when the starting 2nd baseman of his college team got injured and son filled in for him.

When my son transferred to a public school his junior year of high school, he sat for the first time in his life. We hated it! He hated it! And guess what -- he grew from the experience. He learned how to persevere in the midst of adversity. He learned patience. These lessons have helped him be content in the dugout during his college games, whereas certain freshman players (and their parents) that I know are REALLY struggling with sitting.

During son's senior year of high school, the coach started him at 3B. He had never played an inning of 3B in his life! What was the coach thinking? Why didn't our son get to start at the se-xy positon when he was the best fielder, in our minds at least? Looking back, it was a building block to success, allowing him to master yet another infield position. When the starting 3rd baseman of his college team got injured, son was called to fill in for him.

Speaking from experience, the struggles of today form the backbone of tomorrow's success.

Nice post Coach. Most is very true about life as well as baseball. Being a relativly newbee one big thing I've learned is to watch how you phrase things in your post--there are a couple of posters that like to judge other posters and critisize more than answer a simple question. But the majority are trying to help guys like me with a high school freshman to make the right decisions and point out other points of view without being critical.

To brag about your son in front of a very tough crowd is a very very very tough job, in my opinion you have to be a MLB level prospect at pre-HS age to have that bragging right. It's not easy, can't be accomplished this year, I will try harder next year.

Great post Coach May. Part of the weeding out process that happens with every sport from level to level is a players ability to handle adversity. Whether it is an injury, slumping play, or not making a team when you think you should.

These types of things can make or break a player. It is a weird thought but maybe it is better to have some struggles at a younger age so a kid going into HS will not meltdown if he doesn't achieve his goal as to what team he makes or what position he plays.

When everything comes easy we never have to, or learn to, handle hard times. I believe that in sports, especially baseball, that we learn more from negative situations than positive ones. When smacked in the face with the reality that you failed or are failing you either sulk and sink further or you address the problem and work harder to correct it. Better to learn that sooner than later.

quote:

FO, ok I have been wondering all day what the word was, you sly guy!

Subtle bragging...........

Oh, and, that's Fungo's quote from Mark Twain, but I liked it.

Coach May - great post. Our son now a Junior on V played all his middle school and younger years as SS or 3rd. Freshman year is on the freshman team and in the infield. Sophomore year on JV and coach puts him in the outfield - never played outfield before -this with his 11 1/2 inch glove and also did not play every game. But... it was humbling and made his arm stronger actually all those outfield throws - almost like long toss. Junior year - after a just a great summer both defensively and offensively - he goes to talk to V coach about playing V and possibly playing 3rd base. Coach listens and really not very encouraging. Son does all the off season condition stuff, and low and behold makes V and starts 3rd. The kids hung in there - showed a good work ethic - overcame adversity and HE did the talking to the coach. It was a great lesson for him. And actally us a parents too.

I really like this website - it has lots of great info and appreciate wisdom in some of the posts.

fillsfan,
My sentiments exactly but the very patience displayed so far makes the journey sweeter. I'm reminded of the recent question in the Texas forum where a parent wanted to know who the starting freshmen in the Dallas area where. The veterans were classic by naming all the college players they could think of knowing full well the poster was fishing for their hsfreshmen child's praise. In a case of one upsmanship another poster started asking about 2011 players. I suspect in this era of select teams true humility which is required in life and the baseball journey can be avoided by many until the Varsity level in highschool or beyond. I appreciate the Little League and Pony system with the two year age grouping. As an example a 13 yr old had to work his tail off to compete with 14 yr olds. Everyone gets playing time but the best players get more at each level from age 5-6 to 13-14. Part-time players were respected and an intergral part of the team in order to win the league. The leagues were filled with the future drafted kid, D1, D2, NAIA, Junior college, Varsity starter only, and non- high school players. Just an observation where the law of un-intended consequences might be at work.

I really didnt think that I would want to post anything here - it has been quite awhile - but I when I read Coach May's words - quite frankly - its impossible for me not to throw my two cents in.

I would advise every new member of this site to read this man's posts. And take them to heart.

In my book - he is one of the most sincere and knowledgable baseball people I have ever met.

FO

A+

Great posts. We do have the privelage of having many educated, experienced parents and coaches with much wisdom. I know I have been helped immensely from these people. I think that all of us have worried a time or two in our lives about our boys. I certainly have.I never worried when he was in middle school, we dont have Middle school kids play HS baseball in this neck of the woods.
I think as we age and some of us have older boys, maybe in college we look back and realize that it all went so fast and people need to enjoy it.
I persoanlly do not like coach bashing on the site at all, too personal and their are two sides to all stories. basically for a lot of people if their kids do not play every inning the coach is a bum.
Sometimes as parents maybe we over estimate our sons abilities and its hard to see the truth.
I am amazed that it is April and my own and only son is almost finished with a year of college. That makes me sad at times to see him so grown up, and proud to watch him grow into a good man.
Baseball is such a captivating, almost addicting sport at times and very easy to get caught up in and it can become unhealthy.I just want to enjoy each game, each at bat, the fun of it all becasue as we have read for many it has just ended.
I do hope when I have persoanlly posted about some of my sons accomplishments, that posters who have injured boys, or boys who have been let go from Pros, etc,or boys who might be struggling , that you know that all of your boys are in my prayers.
I think baseball is the starting point not the ending point for our young men. They have lots of other wonderful things to experience in life, careers, marriages, birth of children some day, love, all those life experiences that they will enjoy and they will all move on and be better people for hav played such a great game.God Bless