Young and Naive

Arod came to the bigs in 1994---this supposedly happened in 2001 onward---7 years in the Bigs does not make a young and naive player


I can believe nothing he says

Had Arod just admitted to what was proven and leave it at that, he'd have been better off. In the interview with the old wooded tooth fossil, he started off the just fine but once he ran his mouth, added the two years of cheating for good measure, then the inconsistancies and holes in his story grew and made him look less than on the level about his cheating. And after all that, Gammons was easy and tossed softballs at him during that interview. Today, the New York press got him. It'll be interesting to see what he said to the New York media.

Nothing personal but baseball players who have done little else but played baseball all their life and go straight out of high school to the pros aren't always the sharpest and are far from being savvy enough to know what to say in a situation like that and going into that interview, I predicted he'd screw it up and he did big time. He's a 30+ year old man who sounded like a little kid who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Had he been a little smarter, he doesn't interview with Katie Couric and deny it to her. Couric has no pull over Arod and Arod owed her no explanation but now that it's on video that he flat out lied to her, it also makes him look stupid.

Young and naive?. No way. He knew what he was doing. What I do buy is that he got caught up in with the others were doing so he can keep his skill level that much more distant than everybody else that was cheating. He just isn't sharp enough and savvy to handle the interview that would've made him look better than he did.

It sure would be a good time for Bud and Fehr to come out and Apologize to the Public, to the Many MLB fans, To the clean Players that they did not Protect from cheater's.

It would be a good time for the cheater's to come out and take it on the chin like a Man.

Do it, do it now??
It's the most perfect time for them all to put this ( "it" ) behind us.

EH

The players union and MLB have handled this about as bad as they possibly can. Now that Arod's name is out, those on that list of 103 have to come out too. The league has no other choice if they want to get past this.

If I were Arod, I'd look into a possible privacy protection lawsuit on this since those names were supposed to be sealed.

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If I were Arod, I'd look into a possible privacy protection lawsuit on this since those names were supposed to be sealed.

That may work for the 103, but not for ARod. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. His name cannot be cleared through the courts, after all he's already admitted to being young and stupid. He's now at the mercy of the fans, and the only ally he has is time.

Is there an excuse for what he did?

What if he said "yes I did and I'm now apologizing to baseball, my teammates, and fans for what I did and I'm not saying anything more".

Would the media find that acceptable?

Isn't an admission of guilt enough in this world without turning the event inside out ?

Will the other 100+ players have to go through the same scrutiny?

While I find A-Rods action appalling, I find this another event that makes the media the lowest form of life on this Earth.

And like he so elegantly said " I laid my bed, now I've got to sit on it".

quote:

It sure would be a good time for Bud and Fehr to come out and Apologize to the Public

Fehr is probably busy today chasing down and reprimanding David Ortiz for his "test 'em and toss 'em" comments. It was very anti players union.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Fehr is probably busy today chasing down and reprimanding David Ortiz for his "test 'em and toss 'em" comments. It was very anti players union.

With a hint of anti Yankee. I sure hope when the 100+ other names are released there are no Red Sox or personal friends of Ortiz's on that list or he may be chewing on one of those cleated shoes he wears.

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Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Fehr is probably busy today chasing down and reprimanding David Ortiz for his "test 'em and toss 'em" comments. It was very anti players union.

With a hint of anti Yankee. I sure hope when the 100+ other names are released there are no Red Sox or personal friends of Ortiz's on that list or he may be chewing on one of those cleated shoes he wears.

Chewing cleats or drinking more champagne?

What A-Rod did was stupid and he got caught. It was a total no-win situation. If he says "I am sorry, I am guilty" and then shuts up... He will be accused of not saying enough. If he tells his story, he is a liar and not serious. Only talking because he got caught. He can't win.

The scumbag press needs a story to feed on, the self-righteous need a target, the commissioner needs someone to blame to take the heat off of his Sgt. Schultz routine. Fehr needs the 3 monkeys. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. They are all just glad to focus attention somewhere other than themselves for allowing it to happen. There is enough blame to go around. Many can poo-poo the notion that it was the culture. My god, 104 names out of all the teams. That is 3 or 4 from every team. Not included the ones they didn't catch. The culture was there. Put up an astrisk for the era and move on with better testing and more ownership, mlb, union and press accountability for turning a blinde eye. jmo

The hardest part for me to believe is that he suddenly STOPPED when he bacame a Yankee????

He'd been putting up great numbers and so with the added spotlight he decides he'll stop using?

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

With a hint of anti Yankee. I sure hope when the 100+ other names are released there are no Red Sox or personal friends of Ortiz's on that list or he may be chewing on one of those cleated shoes he wears.

LOL..If that list comes out and Red Sox are on it, Yankee fans will be killing them up there. Yankee fans have to take it until they expose those names and when they do, as a Red Sox fan, you gotta hope they're not on it. You'll see on the Masslive boards. It'll all go back to Mitchell and where he's from and why so many Yankees are on the list. I'm sure many Yankee fans are foaming at the mouth waiting for that list......ahahahahaha

This would just be pouring even more gasoline on the fire.

Not that I care about ARod, but I would have liked him to say, " My feelings and comments are as confidential as that report was intended to be," then walk away.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
The hardest part for me to believe is that he suddenly STOPPED when he bacame a Yankee????

He'd been putting up great numbers and so with the added spotlight he decides he'll stop using?

As far as I'm concerned, the whole league is dirty and everybody is possibly doing roids until those names are released, baseball hires a real commissioner and not a puppet for the owners and the MLBPA agrees to allow all testing for steroids and any other PEDs HGH and whatever other alphabets that make them into cyborgs.

I'm calling...


...on A-Rod's story.

rz,

I would rather him just say, "Hey! I did it because it made me run faster, hit farther and recoup quicker! It's my body and it wasn't against MLB rules, even if it was illegal. Come to think of it, I got paid a whole lot more money because of it too!" Then just laugh and walk off. You know that's what these guys want to say! If you were duped into doing it, then you were young and naive. He knew exactly what he was doing, they all did! They need to quit saying they are sorry! The only reason they are sorry is because they got caught! The media needs to quit reporting it! Nothing is going to happen and all they can do is move forward and write new rules to cover any unapproved substances, period and make it a ZERO tolerance policy. If you do it, you are history!

Opportunities come and go

And I believe that this would be a goodtime to take advantage of the timing ( Before the season ) and arguebly your best ( Highest Profile Player ) being outed to come out and ride ARod's shirttales and come clean.
That mean's everybody including the owner's on down thru the rank's to once and for all address the problem and get rid of it in baseball.

EH

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
rz,

I would rather him just say, "Hey! I did it because it made me run faster, hit farther and recoup quicker! It's my body and it wasn't against MLB rules, even if it was illegal. Come to think of it, I got paid a whole lot more money because of it too!" Then just laugh and walk off. You know that's what these guys want to say! If you were duped into doing it, then you were young and naive. He knew exactly what he was doing, they all did! They need to quit saying they are sorry! The only reason they are sorry is because they got caught! The media needs to quit reporting it! Nothing is going to happen and all they can do is move forward and write new rules to cover any unapproved substances, period and make it a ZERO tolerance policy. If you do it, you are history!

You couldn't have said it any better.

Arod admitted it. he just should stop making up these wild stories about his cousin giving him stuff for the years in Texas and not knowing what they were as he claimed in the press conference today with the NY media....then saying he quit them when baseball was starting to focus on steroid use. If he didn't know what he was taking and didn't think they were roids, why did he stop. He's not convincing anybody that as a world class athlete, he don't know what he's shooting in his body. That's just so far out there. I was right in an earlier post that he would continue to stick his foot in his mouth the more he says.

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"Hey! I did it because it made me run faster, hit farther and recoup quicker! It's my body and it wasn't against MLB rules, even if it was illegal.

Power2, that could be a response many baseball people could have accepted and then drawn their own conclusion.

IMHO you have a bright future as a players publicist. , if I was your audience.

However, John Q Public wouldn't have a clue with those remarks, and papers are sold to Mr Public. The media has always followed the old motto goes "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS".

SVP or one of the other ESPN guys said he would call for Starting Today...if you did it before, I don't want to know or hear about it. Tomorrow, if you do it, you face the music. All testing will be random and public and can be conducted anywhere at any time. Those tested and the results will be an open book. No excuses, no questions, just penalties for those going forward. I kind of like where he's coming from. What they did before cannot be controlled or reconciled. (For the record, I don't believe a word that rolls off ARod's tongue.)

It seems reasonable to ask ARod to explain exactly what he took. But....


There is a real downside to doing that, and the recent situation involving Michael Phelps illustrates it. Phelps apologized, but didn't say what he apologized for. Apparently, if he had, he would have been charged in South Carolina. As it is, a picture of him with a bong and no admission of any defined activity left the local authorities with no case.

So ARod, who presumbably has the benefit of professional advice, has avoided saying anything that would incriminate himself legally. Note that his positive test probably wouldn't stand legally by itself, because there likely wasn't a clear chain of custody established all the way from his providing the sample to the eventual test and the recording of the data.

Giambi did the same thing-- he apologized, but never actually specified what he was apologizing for. He had Federal immunity for his Balco testimony, but not in other jurisdictions.


Stolen off the web: 'A South Carolina sheriff said Monday there wasn't enough physical evidence to bring charges against Phelps, according to The Associated Press. Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said holding a bong is not a crime, and Phelps never admitted using it. "He never said, 'I smoked marijuana.' He never confessed that," Lott said.'

Powertoallfields touched on the real reason Alex did the steroids. GREED! He was a millionaire and wanted more money, and that was to put up bigger numbers to get bigger contracts, pure and simple. The more money he made, the more he wanted.

I find it disturbing that he was injecting himself and.....

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-didn't know exactly what he was injecting

-didn't know how often he was "supposed" to be injecting the drug or how to properly use it

-didn't know exactly how the drug was affecting him, if at all
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.......yet he continued to do it over and over again for 3 years!

I understand that he has to be careful what he says for legal reasons, but come on!

While eating a doughnut, the devils advocate popped his head out and reminded me that most situations have different angles.

Maybe......just maybe, A-Rod turning to steroids was due to the pressures of baseball, media, and the fans who were expecting him to live up to the hype and money he was receiving. There came a time when he knew that he could not live up to those expectations and thought the only way he could reach that level was by taking the PED route. I can't say that was his mind-set but then again I can't say it wasn't. Putting yourself in his shoes, with his competitive attitude, those expectations he faced, you might wonder if it was better to try and beat the system rather than facing the media and fans as a failure and not reaching the goals set by others.

We can all sit in hindsight and criticize, but at the same time I'll bet no one here can say that they never took a shortcut in their lives that in many others eyes, was viewed as "unethical". I don't care if its speeding down the road to beat someone to a location, "bumping" in line to get to the front sooner, plagiarizing a term paper, or whatever else you want to come up with, it was cheating, and at the time you blew it off as "the better option". Down the road if someone called you on it, you'd probably deny it. Do think maybe A-Rod was was in the same mind-set on a scale we would never be able to comprehend?

This line of thinking goes for any other player accused of PED use. When a person approaches a dream, obstacles are just that, something to overcome, regardless.......

As rz dives for cover

To me AROD is nothing but an out and out liar---now he talks about college--now he talks about naive and immature---please stop AROD--YOU ARE A LOSER !!!!Nothing more nothing less

rz1,

WOW! You can't be serious with this, can you? Have you really thought this through? I have a lot of bills to pay, I have to figure out how to pay for both kids' college, I may lose my job at anytime, my Wife may lose her's. These are real pressures. ARod has none of those concerns. Yeah, he may lose his job, but he will still get paid millions of dollars for doing nothing. Real people don't have those options. I had dreams too and if I had taken steroids, sold drugs, robbed a few banks, my dreams might have come true also, but I would be a pathetic human being.

The only thing I can say about ARod, is to repeat what he said in his press conference, "all I can ask for is for people to judge me from this day forward". I will do that. But, he needs to STOP making excuses and just play baseball.

BTW, I think he started using steroids in 95 or 96, but that's just my opinion. All I know is that he went from a $3 million dollar a year player to a $22 million dollar player in one year and no one will ever know how much of that money was because of steroids. It is a very sad situation.

It really isn't much different than a CEO of a company (ENRON, Worldcom, etc.) doing whatever he can to make more money and to hell with laws, rules and morals.

The big difference between your analogies and ARod's story is that the people wronged in your analogy eventually got to where they were going. How many players were denied a living playing baseball because others were cheating? How much did ticket prices go up because these cheaters were making so much money?

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:
rz1,
WOW! You can't be serious with this, can you? Have you really thought this through?

If you read the preface it was the thought of the "devils advocate". I facilitate and negotiate as a career, I'm forced to live outside the box and look at all angles, from all sides.

I have previously stated my opinion on the subject, and it wasn't pro A-Rod.

I am a proponent of free thought, and in fairness, all possibilities should be thrown on the table and let the public shake it out as "far out" as those thoughts may be. Whats so wrong about thinking outside the box before drawing conclusions?

IMHO blinders and hindsight are societies worse handicap.

quote:

How many players were denied a living playing baseball because others were cheating? How much did ticket prices go up because these cheaters were making so much money?

Who knows how many players were cheated? IMHO, not that many because many of those using may have been at that level regardless, and those held back Ill bet made it eventually anyway. Who really knows, you can only guess.

Wasn't the roids the reason baseball became popular again? ie Sosa vs McGuirre?

RZ, I agree that we do need to look at all angles. One thing that I am starting to see is that ARod's handlers are not very good.He's says "Young and Naive" well the young part is gone.Naive is still showing. I think he has pretty much come clean but the people who handle him are having him tiptoe around so much that it comes off wrong. I know that he has to watch what he says also or he will be sitting next to Clemens.He is in an tough position BUT he created it himself

Just goes to show, you can't trust your "cousins"!

I've heard of kissing cousins,
But this takes it to a new level.

Did not tell you that the cousin was breaking the law transporting Illegal drugs into the country.
Oh but they were over the counter.
Yes in a different country you moron.

EH

quote:

If you read the preface it was the thought of the "devils advocate". I facilitate and negotiate as a career, I'm forced to live outside the box and look at all angles, from all sides.

Yeah, I caught that, but as I stated, those arguements/excuses are bogus. I don't dought for a moment that ARod may have justified his actions in his own mind in that way, but it's still bogus. If he started using when I think he did, then the "young and naive" statement might be true and I would be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I do agree that the McGwire vs. Sosa battle helped baseball in a big way, but baseball was hurting ONLY because of the last strike. People were tired of guys that make millions wanting more, more, more when the fans are the ones that make it possible for them to be paid to play baseball at all. That goes for owners and players alike too, without the fans there is no MLB. I believe Ken Griffey, Jr. was headed for the record when the strike happened, I wonder if he was using as well??? I don't think he is one that has been accused so far, so I hope not. If he wasn't using that could have had the same effect on baseball
as the McGwire vs Sosa battle, IMO.

My feeling is that PED's were in baseball earlier then the 90's.
Say late 80's are more like it.

And just became a run away train in the mid 90's on.
It's just the way the players developed and the big dude's started poping up.
More HR's in the early 90's.
With Sosa and McGwire in 98, either they were heavy into it.
Or the Ball was juiced.
I don't believe the ball was juiced.
It's the Owner's and the Players fault for allowing this to take place.
Fix it.

EH

It was the present 'culture'.... We've all seen changes in whatever industry we are in.

We all wish now it would have been looked at differently but it wasn't .... and now we have this mess.

I don't doubt for one minute that ARod felt peer pressure.
In Seattle as well as Texas and NY.
He looked up to his senior players that he was around that used something to give them an edge.
And said to himself, well they're getting away with it.
Why not me.

EH

I've lost all respect for A-Rod regardless of his stats or accomplishments.Call me old school but I've allways felt that if I have to lie,cheat or steal to be successful then I don't want to be successful.How can you count any of his acomplishments thus far for the record books?Was Mantle,Ruth,Marris,etc... on PEDs?Comparing anybody statistics to someone who was on PEDs to someone who wasn't is apples and oranges.IMO anybody who test positive for any illegal PEDs should not be considered for any MLB records period.

It doesn't matter how much money he was making or how much pressure he felt.At the end of the day,he cheated!