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103 replies

2012 ALL SED PREDICTIONS

EG El gato500+ posts
The WBC and WWF are pleased to sponsor this year's thread regarding the 2012 all SED predictions. In the far corner from Chesapeake, Virginia via Hickory High School wearing blue trucks, we have Matt Campbell and Tyler Best sponsored by Diamond Stalker and Matthews41. In the near corner from Suffolk, Virginia via Nansemond River High School wearing red trunks, we have Brandon Lowe and Tyler Brown sponsored by Go Dawgs.

There will be no low blows, head butts or cuffing.
Combatants will go to a neutral corner during any standing eight counts or when told by the referee.
Begin boxing or should I say campaigning?

Almost forgot, who gets POY?
Original Post

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mathews41mathews41100+ posts
Classic!!!

But just to defend myself... I only said that I thought the double play tandem of Campbell and Best was the best in the SED.

I did not go out and say who was the better players at the SS and 2b positions. I will quote Redbird: "I don't think you can go wrong with either SS. They are both studs."

I also believe that the same applies to/ with each 2d basemen.
Last edited by mathews41
N nrbb07100+ posts
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!
N nrbb07100+ posts
Go Dawgs, I agree with you. The sad that is, that one of these kids will get hung out to dry. There is just way to much talent in the District this year. I sure would like to be in that meeting. I know there as been a lot of talent come through the SED, but I'd have to say this years group may be the most consistent as far as numbers go.

Vann C, Cody 3B, Brooks OF, Moore OF, Blake 1B, Lowe SS, Campbell 2B, Brown U.... I don't know it's complicated! Does anyone think Bennett could get it for pitching 6-1 record, not sure about the ERA!
EG El gato500+ posts
nrbb07, and that is the problem you encounter when picking by position. It makes no sense. I am aware that the regional and state teams are also picked by position, but that does not make it right. People once thought that the world was flat. A very deserving player who is among the top ten or twelve players (and, in this case, among the top five or six players) will be relegated to the second teams simply because he is not the best at a particular position. Of course, we can always shuffle him to another position as was done two years ago!
Last edited by El gato
N nrbb07100+ posts
I'll never get bent outta shape. I was just trying to give both 1st Team props because they both deserve them. I could see some of the coaches doing it that way. It honestly may not make much sense, but they are both really good!
quote:
Originally posted by playright:
Cambell at 2B just doesn't sound right. Cambell 1st team SS, Lowe 2nd Team SS. just my opinion so dont get bent out of shape
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
Sounds like only players from NR, WB, GB and Hickory should be considered.


Sounds just like every year huh? There are other good players from other teams in the SED, they just don't get mentioned, and that's a fact.


Why don't you participate constructively and start mentioning them?
Last edited by Go Dawgs
S SEDbaseball10+ posts
Roger Hall from IR comes to mind immediately, maybe even the kid Milvo, Stephen L. from OS also comes to mind, the kid Lilley (I think) from Lakeland, he had a great year from what I have read and is only a Sophmore I believe. My point was that some of the "lesser" programs have players worthy of 1st or 2nd team all district selection but the only ones mentioned on here are from the "top 4 teams" based on record, I suppose it is an unfortunate byproduct of not being a winning program. I don't dedicate my life to memorizing stats of 17 year old kids but the conversation seems pretty narrow and exclusive to WB, GB, NR and Hickory, just trying to prod some expansion and discussion to other teams by the commentors on here, no one needs to get butt hurt by it.
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
When someone starts a conversation or comment with "wasn't trying to start anything" its usually a dead give away. However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Having said that, the 2nd baseman for OS and catcher for Grassfield have been mentioned. So if you have anybody else name them.
S SEDbaseball10+ posts
However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Thanks for the obvious rebuttal....
I didn't say anything about Ellis from GF, I don't know alot about him but he played well when I did see him play. Again, Roger Hall from IR and maybe Milvo come right to mind, Lilley from Lakeland, they played well all year. As I was TRYING to say, alot of commentators on here went to alot of games and watched alot of kids and I was trying to prod some opinions on some different kids on different teams is all.....I figured someone would get defensive of the status quo.
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Thanks for the obvious rebuttal....
I didn't say anything about Ellis from GF, I don't know alot about him but he played well when I did see him play. Again, Roger Hall from IR and maybe Milvo come right to mind, Lilley from Lakeland, they played well all year. As I was TRYING to say, alot of commentators on here went to alot of games and watched alot of kids and I was trying to prod some opinions on some different kids on different teams is all.....I figured someone would get defensive of the status quo.


Not defensive at all. Rather than whine that others aren't being mentioned as you did in your first post, just make a case for them like you have done in your last post.
B BigPapi7610+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
Sounds like only players from NR, WB, GB and Hickory should be considered.


Sounds just like every year huh? There are other good players from other teams in the SED, they just don't get mentioned, and that's a fact.


Such as?


Nick Milvo, catcher for Indian River...
'59Tiger'59Tiger10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!


Whoa...

I'm pretty sure that those who can READ saw the statement "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize" and thought:

A) They mean SECOND BASEMEN (Lowe & Campbell do NOT play 2B).
B) That it means of all of the 2B in the district who no one has mentioned, he is clearly the best.

Now... Obviously you are drunk with bias and are completely ignorant to facts needed to make a sensible argument. It makes very little sense for a biased-person like you to call out a player as being “clearly inferior”!

The facts are:
* Lorkiewicz was 2nd Team All-District 2B, as a sophomore, in 2010 behind Justin Lee (batted .396).
* He missed his junior year after separating his shoulder in game 4 of 2011... at the time he had already scored 5 runs, had 4 RBI, a .563 OBP, .500 SLG, 1.063 OPS... AND would be a more "known name" without that injury.
* Lorkiewicz’s season ended yesterday: .404 AVG (23-57), 17 runs, 4 doubles, 4 triples, 1 HR, 21 RBI (top 3 in the area according to the Pilot), 8 stolen bases, .471 OBP, .649 SLG, 1.121 OPS... and this is with missing the first 2 games due to the lingering shoulder injury.
* The young man did all of this wearing a shoulder brace for this entire season & has a slightly torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder.
* He had a clutch 2-run single in the 7th inning of the upset over GB.
* In the "head-to-head" matchup with Brown this past Tuesday... Lorkiewicz drove in the tying & winning runs with a 2-run double in the big upset over #1 NR... while Brown went 0-4 from the leadoff spot.

Needless to say, we are all biased to the players we see regularly... but to say that Stephen Lorkiewicz isn't even in the same class as Tyler Best & Tyler Brown is absolutely senseless. Anyone, with knowledge of the facts in the argument, should be able to develop a broader scope of understanding about Oscar Smith senior Stephen Lorkiewicz… "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize".
C Cool,Calm,CollectedMember
Campbell and Lowe are both very deserving of a first team award. One particular coach is no longer in the district so shuffling of positions as previously mentioned might not be in the minds of the coaches. Also, when selecting a player for first and second teams, I think the main goal should be to reward the player who had the best year, not simply award a player because he is the best player. It does seem like GB, H, NR, and WB players are always mentioned because these teams are at the top of the district year in and year out. Most often, the best players and players that play the best are on the teams that win the most.
Last edited by Cool,Calm,Collected
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by '59Tiger:
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!


Whoa...

I'm pretty sure that those who can READ saw the statement "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize" and thought:

A) They mean SECOND BASEMEN (Lowe & Campbell do NOT play 2B).
B) That it means of all of the 2B in the district who no one has mentioned, he is clearly the best.

Now... Obviously you are drunk with bias and are completely ignorant to facts needed to make a sensible argument. It makes very little sense for a biased-person like you to call out a player as being “clearly inferior”!

The facts are:
* Lorkiewicz was 2nd Team All-District 2B, as a sophomore, in 2010 behind Justin Lee (batted .396).
* He missed his junior year after separating his shoulder in game 4 of 2011... at the time he had already scored 5 runs, had 4 RBI, a .563 OBP, .500 SLG, 1.063 OPS... AND would be a more "known name" without that injury.
* Lorkiewicz’s season ended yesterday: .404 AVG (23-57), 17 runs, 4 doubles, 4 triples, 1 HR, 21 RBI (top 3 in the area according to the Pilot), 8 stolen bases, .471 OBP, .649 SLG, 1.121 OPS... and this is with missing the first 2 games due to the lingering shoulder injury.
* The young man did all of this wearing a shoulder brace for this entire season & has a slightly torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder.
* He had a clutch 2-run single in the 7th inning of the upset over GB.
* In the "head-to-head" matchup with Brown this past Tuesday... Lorkiewicz drove in the tying & winning runs with a 2-run double in the big upset over #1 NR... while Brown went 0-4 from the leadoff spot.

Needless to say, we are all biased to the players we see regularly... but to say that Stephen Lorkiewicz isn't even in the same class as Tyler Best & Tyler Brown is absolutely senseless. Anyone, with knowledge of the facts in the argument, should be able to develop a broader scope of understanding about Oscar Smith senior Stephen Lorkiewicz… "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize".


Now that is how you make a case, but I would point out Brown was 2-3 with an RBI while Lorkiewicz was 0-3 from the leadoff spot in the first head-to-head matchup won by NR.
Last edited by Go Dawgs
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
Are you really trying to compare head-to-head games?


Agreed!

Not to take anything away from Lorkiewicz, he looks to have had a fine season. BUT, I think if one would like to utilize stats as the basis of an argument, then I will utilize the "what pitching did he hit" argument.

Clearly, a player, playing for one of the Top 4 teams, (at least this particular year), saw a steady diet of C. Jones, Blake, Rice, Brown, Bennett, etc. Which is to say that a Tyler Best or TY Brown having comparable offensive stats, to go along with stellar defensive play, puts them in a different category vs. a player who consistently saw the No. 3 or 4 every game.

That would also go for some of the other "less mentioned" names, for lower tier teams.

Some combination of the pitchers mentioned above will certainly occupy the 1st and 2nd team spots. If a position player didn't face a steady diet of that, then its difficult to give that player much consideration, when compared to other equally talented (or more so) players, who constantly faced it, and performed.

Lets be honest, NR, WB, Hickory, and GB saw their opponents best each and every game.
Last edited by GoHeels
mathews41mathews41100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by GoHeels:

Agreed!

Not to take anything away from Lorkiewicz, he looks to have had a fine season. BUT, I think if one would like to utilize stats as the basis of an argument, then I will utilize the "what pitching did he hit" argument.

Clearly, a player, playing for one of the Top 4 teams, (at least this particular year), saw a steady diet of C. Jones, Blake, Rice, Brown, Bennett, etc. Which is to say that a Tyler Best or TY Brown having comparable offensive stats, to go along with stellar defensive play, puts them in a different category vs. a player who consistently saw the No. 3 or 4 every game.

That would also go for some of the other "less mentioned" names, for lower tier teams.

Some combination of the pitchers mentioned above will certainly occupy the 1st and 2nd team spots. If a position player didn't face a steady diet of that, then its difficult to give that player much consideration, when compared to other equally talented (or more so) players, who constantly faced it, and performed.

Lets be honest, NR, WB, Hickory, and GB saw their opponents best each and every game.


Without trying to step on any toes...that is probably a very accurate assessment.
Last edited by mathews41
'59Tiger'59Tiger10+ posts
REPONSE TO GoHeels (& mathews41):


To clear something up...


Oscar Smith:


... faced Ryan Blake & Spenser Carter (Hickory's #1 AND #2) in their 2 meetings.


... faced Troy Jones, Brian Beard, and Cooper Jones vs GB (Although not Conner Jones... it's DEFINITELY their 2, & 3) and scored 9 in the 2nd game. As a matter of fact, GB has 6 runs or less in every game this season except the 7 & 9 they allowed to NR & the Oscar Smith game. OS scored 7 earned runs in one inning with Cooper Jones starting that inning on the mound (I think some would agree that Cooper pitched in and won some pretty big postseason games for GB last year).


... faced Zach Rice & Kyle Moore vs NR (Their 1a & 2.. Again, Kyle Moore would be a clear #1 or #2 for most). This past Tuesday, before the game vs OS, the Pilot listed Moore as having the lowest Public School ERA at 0.79. Smith scored 6 earned in 4.1 IP vs Moore that night.


... faced Rutherford (twice) & Bennett vs WB (their #1 & #3)... Rutherford will be their #1 in 2013.


... faced Roger Hall & Robert White each TWICE vs IR (their #1 & #2).


... faced Robert Fitzwater TWICE vs Lakeland (their #1).


... faced Seth Winslow TWICE vs DC (their #1).


And let's be perfectly clear... in the games between the "big guns" Hickory, WB, GB, NR and Oscar Smith, who was facing "better pitching" in those 8 games in your opinion?


So weren't the "lower teir" teams at a "disadvantage" because they didn't face their own team's "sub-par" pitching, while for example, no NR batters had to face Rice, Brown, or Moore? (There are 2 sides to the coin)


Honestly, the whole All-District argument by biased parents/fans is silly in the first place... But all I would ask is that if you are going to try and diminish Lorkiewicz's or Oscar Smith's talent & accomplishments, back it with REAL FACTS, not misguided assumptions.


In all honesty though, it'd be great if you could "back your guy" without trying to knock down another player in the first place!
Last edited by '59Tiger
N nrbb07100+ posts
The fact of the matter is that WB,NR,HH,GB all have the best players. I mean you people that post have a case of A$$. Do you see the results year in, year out? Or are you just a bunch of morons that don't know the game. It's like someone post something then it gets blown up. Why can't their be 2 first team SS for (Lowe and Campbell) then Best is still in the equation. The kid from OS is an above average player at best. Their may be good players that go unnamed but thats what happens when you don't win. I'm sorry would you like a pat on the back for not making it. Man up, get the job done and win some baseball games and then you can talk about where you think your kids belong!!!
H hellosir10+ posts
We do not base awards off of how good a player is. WE BASE IT OFF THE SEASON THEY ARE HAVING. And when you look at the statistics , this year Lorkewiez is having type of season to garnish 1st team honors. You don't move someone out of position just to satisfy the politics that go into all of this nonsense. Lorkewiez should be first team. And unless you can find a second basemen that has had a better season , then he should be first team. the same goes for the rest of the positions . Just because there are many high quality players at the same position , only one can be chosen, tough luck to the ones that didn't win , but at the end of the day, they're going to play baseball at the next level.
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by '59Tiger:
REPONSE TO GoHeels (& mathews41):


To clear something up...


Oscar Smith:


... faced Ryan Blake & Spenser Carter (Hickory's #1 AND #2) in their 2 meetings.


... faced Troy Jones, Brian Beard, and Cooper Jones vs GB (Although not Conner Jones... it's DEFINITELY their 2, & 3) and scored 9 in the 2nd game. As a matter of fact, GB has 6 runs or less in every game this season except the 7 & 9 they allowed to NR & the Oscar Smith game. OS scored 7 earned runs in one inning with Cooper Jones starting that inning on the mound (I think some would agree that Cooper pitched in and one some pretty big postseason games for GB last year).


... faced Zach Rice & Kyle Moore vs NR (Their 1a & 2.. Again, Kyle Moore would be a clear #1 or #2 for most). This past Tuesday, before the game vs OS, the Pilot listed Moore as the lowest Public School ERA at 0.79. Smith scored 6 earned in 4.1 IP vs Moore that night.


... faced Rutherford (twice) & Bennett vs WB (their #1 & #3)... Rutherford will be the #1 in 2013.


... faced Roger Hall & Robert White each TWICE vs IR (their #1 & #2).


... faced Robert Fitzwater TWICE vs Lakeland (their #1).


... faced Seth Winslow TWICE vs DC (their #1).


And let's be perfectly clear... in the games between the "big guns" Hickory, WB, GB, NR and Oscar Smith, who was facing "better pitching" in those 8 games in your opinion?


So weren't the "lower teir" teams at a "disadvantage" because they didn't face their own team's "sub-par" pitching, while for example, no NR batters had to face Rice, Brown, or Moore? (There are 2 sides to the coin)


Honestly, the whole All-District argument by biased parents/fans is silly in the first place... But all I would ask is that if you are going to try and diminish Lorkiewicz's or Oscar Smith's talent & accomplishments, back it with REAL FACTS, not misguided assumptions.


In all honesty though, it'd be great if you could "back your guy" without trying to knock down another player in the first place!


I genuinely respect your opinion, but the argument was lost on me, as soon as you point out that:

* player "will be" no. 1 "next year"
* player was no. 1 pitcher for ______ (team who won 3 games)
* player "would be a no. 1 on another team"

amongst others.

I mean, c'mon! Somebody has to throw in the game! I'm not arguing for or against anyone. My entire point was that using statistics as the sole basis of the argument is foolish. There are other things that should be taken into consideration.

Finally, if your final comment is directed at me, I'm pretty sure I started my previous comment with "not to take anything away from Lorkiewicz, he looks to have had a fine season."

If you could help me better construct an argument, utilizing kinder and more respectful verbage, please do! I do apologize if the above statement was too harsh.
Last edited by GoHeels
'59Tiger'59Tiger10+ posts
RESPONSE ... this will be my FINAL one! That way this board can refocus on all the other positions up for debate.


Let me try to clarify my previous post ... ESPECIALLY to GoHeels:


The bottom line is this... who were the top 10 pitchers in the district this year, speaking results/performance-wise? (Coincidentally, this list just happens to be from the top 5 teams in the district!)


Conner Jones, GB

Troy Jones, GB

Zach Rice, NR

Tyler Brown, NR

Kyle Moore, NR

Ryan Bennett, WB

Shane Johnsonbaugh, WB

Ryan Blake, H

Spenser Carter, H

Roger Hall/Robert White, IR


Oscar Smith faced ALL but 3 on that list... Conner Jones, Tyler Brown, & Shane Johnsonbaugh.


BUT.... Nansemond River did not face 6 guys from that list... Zach Rice, Tyler Brown, Kyle Moore, Troy Jones, Shane Johnsonbaugh, or Robert White.


Obviously, GB did not face the Jones boys, WB did not face Bennett/Johnsonbaugh, & Hickory did not face Blake/Carter... instead they faced Oscar Smith pitchers (those inferior "bottom tier" fellas) in their games. So, factually, each of those "top teir" teams did NOT face ALL of the "top teir" pitchers; but, Oscar Smith faced as much, or more, tough pitching as anyone else in the SED.


Also:

* (Note to Go Dawgs: You are absolutely CORRECT about OS's 1st game against NR!)

* To answer the question asked by CARDS FAN ... Troy Jones started on the mound against Oscar Smith the first time they played. He was a monster for the first 5, but couldn't get out if the 6th (Lorkiewicz tripled & scored a run).


* Seth Winslow from Deep Creek, from what I understand, is possibly going to the College of Albemarle to pitch (pretty sure CoA was there to watch him when OS played DC... someone correct me if I'm wrong?) and according to MaxPreps struck out 63 batters in 36 innings pitched this year. Can he help that his team averaged around 2 runs per game and played suspect defense behind him? Sure some of his numbers came against "bottom tier" teams, but 63 Ks in 36 IP? I don't care about the competition, that IS NOT garbage pitching!

(Note to nrbb07: My counter-point to you is... talented players don't have to play on just the top 4 teams in the SED; they can play for the LOWER tier teams because the SED is so very much more competitive (UPPER & LOWER tiers), without a doubt, than ANY other district in this area! This year's Beach Blast results (6-0) are a testament to that. The lower tier teams that don't match up to your competition criteria (with all their "unworthy of consideration" players, as deemed by YOU) evidently DO have talent worthy of consideration by coaches from higher institutions ... as per the example above! Be proud of yours and respect/acknowledge the talent of others ... I know I do!!!)


* GoHeels, my previous post was a broad statement directed at anyone trying to discredit accomplishments of players & teams using just what they assume, not just you. I will say this... to say, "not to take anything away from..." and then you directly make a case to take away from his season by saying he faced inferior pitching, is contradictory... it's definitely not a matter of you hurting my feelings!

Obviously, we can go around and around on this & already have! Let's agree to disagree... with no hard feelings.


Now, how about those outfield positions, Diamond Stalker?
Last edited by '59Tiger
SED_PlayerSED_PlayerMember
As a SED player that is not going to reveal his name... i will tell you every high school baseball player checks this site to see how people react to games. Its a topic we even talk about on the field. As a player we just want to play the game thats why we work hard everyday. To be honest...being 1st team or 2nd team is nice and a great accomplishment but at the end of the day what does it mean? Its upsetting to see adults argue over first and second team predictions when it doesnt even really matter to us. All we want to do is play the game.
T triplem71Member
quote:
Originally posted by SED_Player:
As a SED player that is not going to reveal his name... i will tell you every high school baseball player checks this site to see how people react to games. Its a topic we even talk about on the field. As a player we just want to play the game thats why we work hard everyday. To be honest...being 1st team or 2nd team is nice and a great accomplishment but at the end of the day what does it mean? Its upsetting to see adults argue over first and second team predictions when it doesnt even really matter to us. All we want to do is play the game.


That is the smartest comment I've read in this thread! Well said SED_Player!
EG El gato500+ posts
I presume the coaches will not hold their post season meeting until WB and NR have played their one game playoff. Anyone care to confirm that?

Second, WBC and WWF are threatening to withdraw their sponsorship of the all district team. Apparently, the commentators and spokesmen have limited their disagreements and opinions to the middle infielders and, to a lesser degree, outfielders and pitchers.

Third, is it too late to simply nominate and select the top players (as at least one conference has done and the Virginia Pilot will do when they announce the all Tidewater Team)?
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
TY Brown would be a great fit as Utility, Blake should be district mvp.


I generally agree, but will throw a couple of other considerations. I start with the fact that I have not seen all of the statistical data. Having said that and using the "eye test" for POY, I think there are four kids that are deserving of serious consideration. Blake is one of them. The other three are Lowe (SS) and Vann (C)from NR, to go along with Cody from GB. A wildcard could be a Zach Rice nomination. All he has done is beat the best teams in the district, in the middle of a district race, and has to be near or at the top in every meaningful statistical category for pitchers. And again, having done that against the districts best clubs.

Just sayin...
Last edited by GoHeels
N nrbb07100+ posts
Agreed
quote:
Originally posted by GoHeels:
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
TY Brown would be a great fit as Utility, Blake should be district mvp.


I generally agree, but will throw a couple of other considerations. I start with the fact that I have not seen all of the statistical data. Having said that and using the "eye test" for POY, I think there are four kids that are deserving of serious consideration. Blake is one of them. The other three are Lowe (SS) and Vann (C)from NR, to go along with Cody from GB. A wildcard could be a Zach Rice nomination. All he has done is beat the best teams in the district, in the middle of a district race, and has to be near or at the top in every meaningful statistical category for pitchers. And again, having done that against the districts best clubs.

Just sayin...
B Bubba1210+ posts
Vann from NR has been the ace behind the plate, I've seen him numerous times, plus he's one of the leaders in RBI's and Batting average in the SED. He hits the ball in the big games!
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapi76:
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
Sounds like only players from NR, WB, GB and Hickory should be considered.


Sounds just like every year huh? There are other good players from other teams in the SED, they just don't get mentioned, and that's a fact.


Such as?


Nick Milvo, catcher for Indian River...
B Bubba1210+ posts
Moron, NR could not face Moore, Rice, and Brown because they are on the NR team! NR did face Johnsonbaugh and took the win for the district title. So that only leaves Troy Jones and Robert White that NR hasn't seen.
quote:
Originally posted by '59Tiger:
RESPONSE ... this will be my FINAL one! That way this board can refocus on all the other positions up for debate.


Let me try to clarify my previous post ... ESPECIALLY to GoHeels:


The bottom line is this... who were the top 10 pitchers in the district this year, speaking results/performance-wise? (Coincidentally, this list just happens to be from the top 5 teams in the district!)


Conner Jones, GB

Troy Jones, GB

Zach Rice, NR

Tyler Brown, NR

Kyle Moore, NR

Ryan Bennett, WB

Shane Johnsonbaugh, WB

Ryan Blake, H

Spenser Carter, H

Roger Hall/Robert White, IR


Oscar Smith faced ALL but 3 on that list... Conner Jones, Tyler Brown, & Shane Johnsonbaugh.


BUT.... Nansemond River did not face 6 guys from that list... Zach Rice, Tyler Brown, Kyle Moore, Troy Jones, Shane Johnsonbaugh, or Robert White.


Obviously, GB did not face the Jones boys, WB did not face Bennett/Johnsonbaugh, & Hickory did not face Blake/Carter... instead they faced Oscar Smith pitchers (those inferior "bottom tier" fellas) in their games. So, factually, each of those "top teir" teams did NOT face ALL of the "top teir" pitchers; but, Oscar Smith faced as much, or more, tough pitching as anyone else in the SED.


Also:

* (Note to Go Dawgs: You are absolutely CORRECT about OS's 1st game against NR!)

* To answer the question asked by CARDS FAN ... Troy Jones started on the mound against Oscar Smith the first time they played. He was a monster for the first 5, but couldn't get out if the 6th (Lorkiewicz tripled & scored a run).


* Seth Winslow from Deep Creek, from what I understand, is possibly going to the College of Albemarle to pitch (pretty sure CoA was there to watch him when OS played DC... someone correct me if I'm wrong?) and according to MaxPreps struck out 63 batters in 36 innings pitched this year. Can he help that his team averaged around 2 runs per game and played suspect defense behind him? Sure some of his numbers came against "bottom tier" teams, but 63 Ks in 36 IP? I don't care about the competition, that IS NOT garbage pitching!

(Note to nrbb02: My counter-point to you is... talented players don't have to play on just the top 4 teams in the SED; they can play for the LOWER tier teams because the SED is so very much more competitive (UPPER & LOWER tiers), without a doubt, than ANY other district in this area! This year's Beach Blast results (6-0) are a testament to that. The lower tier teams that don't match up to your competition criteria (with all their "unworthy of consideration" players, as deemed by YOU) evidently DO have talent worthy of consideration by coaches from higher institutions ... as per the example above! Be proud of yours and respect/acknowledge the talent of others ... I know I do!!!)


* GoHeels, my previous post was a broad statement directed at anyone trying to discredit accomplishments of players & teams using just what they assume, not just you. I will say this... to say, "not to take anything away from..." and then you directly make a case to take away from his season by saying he faced inferior pitching, is contradictory... it's definitely not a matter of you hurting my feelings!

Obviously, we can go around and around on this & already have! Let's agree to disagree... with no hard feelings.


Now, how about those outfield positions, Diamond Stalker?
WR WB Reporter1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
Moron, NR could not face Moore, Rice, and Brown because they are on the NR team!


Whoa, Bub, I realize that you are new to the board, at least to posting. Perhaps you should reread, or read if you have not done so, the etiquette rules.

And, in fact, you have reiterated the point which Tiger was making. The batters on the teams with the top flight pitching do not have to face that top flight pitching, they are facing lesser pitching and thus can achieve, arguably, higher batting averages.

Now, as for POY, each person has to decide what characteristics that player is comprised of. Is it the very best player in the district or is it the player who meant the most to his team, the player without whom the team would have finished with a much lesser record?

Nansemond River is a strong team, with hitting from top to bottom of the lineup. They have very strong pitching. Remove one player from their lineup and, in most instances, they have another who can step up. On the other hand (and I am sure I will get slammed for making a left-handed compliment), without Blake as a pitcher for Hickory, I don't see Hickory finishing 3rd or anywhere close. Blake provided Hickory with their top pitching (yes, I realize he did not come through in the Western Branch game but, in my humble opinion, he looked pitching tired from throwing, probably, too many pitches, such as against Nansemond River at Harbor Park). Blake also batted in the 3-hole in most of the games I saw (five with Hickory as a team playing) and provided a lot of pop with that bat. So I would have to lean towards Blake for POY.
Last edited by WB Reporter
mathews41mathews41100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by WB Reporter:
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
Moron, NR could not face Moore, Rice, and Brown because they are on the NR team!


Whoa, Bub, I realize that you are new to the board, at least to posting. Perhaps you should reread, or read if you have not done so, the etiquette rules.

And, in fact, you have reiterated the point which Tiger was making. The batters on the teams with the top flight pitching do not have to face that top flight pitching, they are facing lesser pitching and thus can achieve, arguably, higher batting averages.

Now, as for POY, each person has to decide what characteristics that player is comprised of. Is it the very best player in the district or is it the player who meant the most to his team, the player without whom the team would have finished with a much lesser record?

Nansemond River is a strong team, with hitting from top to bottom of the lineup. They have very strong pitching. Remove one player from their lineup and, in most instances, they have another who can step up. On the other hand (and I am sure I will get slammed for making a left-handed compliment), without Blake as a pitcher for Hickory, I don't see Hickory finishing 3rd or anywhere close. Blake provided Hickory with their top pitching (yes, I realize he did not come through in the Western Branch game but, in my humble opinion, he looked pitching tired from throwing, probably, too many pitches, such as against Nansemond River at Harbor Park). Blake also batted in the 3-hole in most of the games I saw (five with Hickory as a team playing) and provided a lot of pop with that bat. So I would have to lean towards Blake for POY.


Nicely done.
B Bubba1210+ posts
I would have to agree on Ryan Blake being the SED POY
quote:
Originally posted by WB Reporter:
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
Moron, NR could not face Moore, Rice, and Brown because they are on the NR team!


Whoa, Bub, I realize that you are new to the board, at least to posting. Perhaps you should reread, or read if you have not done so, the etiquette rules.

And, in fact, you have reiterated the point which Tiger was making. The batters on the teams with the top flight pitching do not have to face that top flight pitching, they are facing lesser pitching and thus can achieve, arguably, higher batting averages.

Now, as for POY, each person has to decide what characteristics that player is comprised of. Is it the very best player in the district or is it the player who meant the most to his team, the player without whom the team would have finished with a much lesser record?

Nansemond River is a strong team, with hitting from top to bottom of the lineup. They have very strong pitching. Remove one player from their lineup and, in most instances, they have another who can step up. On the other hand (and I am sure I will get slammed for making a left-handed compliment), without Blake as a pitcher for Hickory, I don't see Hickory finishing 3rd or anywhere close. Blake provided Hickory with their top pitching (yes, I realize he did not come through in the Western Branch game but, in my humble opinion, he looked pitching tired from throwing, probably, too many pitches, such as against Nansemond River at Harbor Park). Blake also batted in the 3-hole in most of the games I saw (five with Hickory as a team playing) and provided a lot of pop with that bat. So I would have to lean towards Blake for POY.
WR WB Reporter1,000+ posts
We should know tonight, barring rain, who are the members of the First and Second All SED District Teams. Information is leaking out, however, and it is my understanding that the players from Western Branch making the teams are:

Bobby Barefoot, 1st Team DH
Shane Johnsonbaugh, 1st Team Utility
Garrett Brooks, 1st team Outfield
Ryan Bennett, 2nd team Pitcher
Alex Hunt, 2nd team Outfield
N nrbb07100+ posts
With the addition of kids from both Great Bridge and Hickory High School on the All-District list. The best players were selected in this years All-District voting selection. I said it a couple weeks ago when the topic got started. "You win, you get rewarded". SED continues to put out the best overall talent across the state. They continue to produce big-time talent across the board.
EG El gato500+ posts
If I am correctly putting the various entries together, the first and second teams are:

First team SED:

P - Zach Rice (NR)
P - Conner Jones (GB)
C - Zach Vann (NR)
1st - Ryan Blake (H)
2nd - Tyler Best (H)
SS - Brandon Lowe (NR)
3rd - Charlie Cody (GB)
OF - Garrett Brooks (WB)
OF - Kyle Moore (NR)
OF - Brian Beard (GB)
DH - Bobby Barefoot (WB)
Utl - Ty Brown (NR)
Utl - Shane Johnsonbaugh (WB)
POY - Brandon Lowe (NR)

Second team SED:

P - Ryan Bennett (WB)
P - Ryan Blake (H)
C - Nick Milvo (IR)
1st - Travis Johnson (NR)
2nd - Stephen Lorkiewicz (OS)
SS - Matt Campbell (H)
SS - Roger Hall (IR)
3rd - AJ Hunt (IR)
OF - Max Burcham (GF)
OF - Kyle Matthews (GB)
OF - Shane Johnsonbaugh (WB)
DH - Dane Smith (GB)
Utl - Spencer Carter (H)

Congrats to all.
Last edited by El gato
WR WB Reporter1,000+ posts
Southeastern District Teams as announced at the tournament:

First Team:
Pitchers: Zach Rice (NR)
Connor Jones (GB)
Catcher: Zach Vann (NR)
First Base: Ryan Blake (Hickory)
Second Base: Tyler Best (Hickory)
Third Base: Charlie Cody (GB)
SS: Brandon Lowe (NR)
OF: Kyle Moore (NR)
OF: Garrett Brooks (WB)
OF: Brian Beard (GB)
DH: Bobby Barefoot (WB)
Utility: Tyler Brown (NR)
Utility: Shane Johnsonbaugh (WB)

POY: Brandon Lowe

Second Team:
Pitchers: Ryan Blake (Hickory) and Ryan Bennett (WB)
Catcher: Nick Milvo (Indian River)
First Base: Travis Johnson (NR)
Second Base: Stephen Lorkiwietz (Oscar Smith)
Third Base: AJ Hunt (IR)
SS: Matt Campbell (Hickory)/ Roger Hall (IR)
OF: Shane Johnsonbaugh (WB)
OF: Kyle Matthews (GB)
OF: Max Burcham (GF)
DH: Dane Smith (GB)
UT: Spencer Carter (Hickory)

Congratulations.
B bleedingblue10+ posts
I am going to say my piece and be done with it. All this talk about being from a winning team or program to recieve district honors is unfair. Those kids from your lower tier programs work just as hard as those from the upper tier. It should come down to the statistics of that player. A true utility player does more then pitch and play a couple outfield positions. Congratulations to all those who were honored. I'm taking nothing away from them, but a .439 BA .589 OBP and .659 SLG deserves some recognition. This player also caught, pitched, played first, right and left field. ESPN says it right "COME ON MAN"
S SEDbaseball10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bleedingblue:
I am going to say my piece and be done with it. All this talk about being from a winning team or program to recieve district honors is unfair. Those kids from your lower tier programs work just as hard as those from the upper tier. It should come down to the statistics of that player. ESPN says it right "COME ON MAN"


No question, it should come down to statistics, but unfortunately it appears that that is not always the case. I am curious though, how does one player make 1st team position play and 2nd team Pitcher?? I mean isn't 1st team enough? If there was a 3rd team would he make that as well in a different slot? I could't agree more with bleedingblue in regards to nrrb07's brilliant insight, you win you get rewarded?? I thought for all district selection it was....you produce the stats that beats all the other players, in THAT position....you get rewarded... I didn't realize it was a selection based on your TEAM'S performance, maybe I just don't get it.
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by bleedingblue:
I am going to say my piece and be done with it. All this talk about being from a winning team or program to recieve district honors is unfair. Those kids from your lower tier programs work just as hard as those from the upper tier. It should come down to the statistics of that player. ESPN says it right "COME ON MAN"


No question, it should come down to statistics, but unfortunately it appears that that is not always the case. I am curious though, how does one player make 1st team position play and 2nd team Pitcher?? I mean isn't 1st team enough? If there was a 3rd team would he make that as well in a different slot? I could't agree more with bleedingblue in regards to nrrb07's brilliant insight, you win you get rewarded?? I thought for all district selection it was....you produce the stats that beats all the other players, in THAT position....you get rewarded... I didn't realize it was a selection based on your TEAM'S performance, maybe I just don't get it.


I agree with some of your sentiment, but have you considered the following: What if the players that were nominated actually had better statistics? I'm going to suggest that, by and large, they did! Also, a parent, or casual follower, might see a player just a couple times a season. Collectively, the coaches see them all the time.

On the other hand, to support nrrb07 at least a little bit, he is also right in this regard...the best TEAMS do, in fact, have the best PLAYERS! That is why they are better!

I don't think the coaches could have done a better job. The couple of players that were also deserving of recognition simply played at a position where the talent pool was very deep. There are a couple of kids, had they played in any other district, could have been a 1st or 2nd team selection. There is no doubt in my mind. Tough sledding in the SED though, where the top 4 teams were consistently ranked in the Top 5 in Hampton Roads, and Top 10 in the state. And they were regarded as such, because of the very deep talent pool.

It is what it is!
Last edited by GoHeels
N nrbb07100+ posts
All the correct kids got selected. Yea I'm sorry that some above average kids play on god awful teams! Let's look at the College's these kids are going too: Rice (UNC), Jones (UVA), Cody (Vandy), Lowe (Maryland), Moore (Maryland), Brooks (ECU), Beard (ODU),Barefoot(NSU), Brown (Wingate), Johnsonbaugh (RU), Vann (Junior College), Campbell (UNC)...He should have been honored has well! And, Why no college has picked up Blake is stupid the kid is a bulldog! Honestly, without him Hickory may not have made the tourney! So don't tell me that winning doesn't play into this as well. ALL THESE KIDS HAVE HUGE NUMBERS!!! So I guess the proof is in the pudding. I guess I don't watch the same game as everyone else.
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
All the correct kids got selected. Yea I'm sorry that some above average kids play on god awful teams! Let's look at the College's these kids are going too: Rice (UNC), Jones (UVA), Cody (Vandy), Lowe (Maryland), Moore (Maryland), Brooks (ECU), Beard (ODU),Barefoot(NSU), Brown (Wingate), Johnsonbaugh (RU), Vann (Junior College), Campbell (UNC)...He should have been honored has well! And, Why no college has picked up Blake is stupid the kid is a bulldog! Honestly, without him Hickory may not have made the tourney! So don't tell me that winning doesn't play into this as well. ALL THESE KIDS HAVE HUGE NUMBERS!!! So I guess the proof is in the pudding. I guess I don't watch the same game as everyone else.


Could maybe work on the 'ol "bedside manner" a little bit, but otherwise, you are spot on!
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by GoHeels:
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
All the correct kids got selected. Yea I'm sorry that some above average kids play on god awful teams! Let's look at the College's these kids are going too: Rice (UNC), Jones (UVA), Cody (Vandy), Lowe (Maryland), Moore (Maryland), Brooks (ECU), Beard (ODU),Barefoot(NSU), Brown (Wingate), Johnsonbaugh (RU), Vann (Junior College), Campbell (UNC)...He should have been honored has well! And, Why no college has picked up Blake is stupid the kid is a bulldog! Honestly, without him Hickory may not have made the tourney! So don't tell me that winning doesn't play into this as well. ALL THESE KIDS HAVE HUGE NUMBERS!!! So I guess the proof is in the pudding. I guess I don't watch the same game as everyone else.


Could maybe work on the 'ol "bedside manner" a little bit, but otherwise, you are spot on!


Deserving players always get left off when you attempt to honor one kid at every position. Remember that the coaches from all 10 teams vote. That means that the coaches from Lakeland, Kings Fork, Oscar Smith, Indian River, Grassfield and Deep Creek had to vote in a similar fashion as the coaches from the top 4 finishing schools.

There were some really talented players that were just in the wrong District at the wrong time due to the level of talent in the SED. I saw every Nansemond River game this year. Very good players off the top of my head were Robert Fitzwater and Tyler Lilley of Lakeland, Austin Owens, Troy Jones and Dane Smith of Great Bridge, Nick Milvo, Roger Hall, AJ Hunt and Robert White of Indian River, Spenser Carter and Matt Campbell (UNC commit and deserving of 1st team!) of Hickory just to name a few. Based on voting from all 10 teams, the coaches felt somebody else was better for 1st team over the course of the year and cast their votes accordingly. Not perfect, but pretty accurate.
Last edited by Go Dawgs
N nrbb07100+ posts
Your right about the manner. I just can't stand excuses man. Understand some kids should get a shout out, but others are just better in my book!
quote:
Originally posted by GoHeels:
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
All the correct kids got selected. Yea I'm sorry that some above average kids play on god awful teams! Let's look at the College's these kids are going too: Rice (UNC), Jones (UVA), Cody (Vandy), Lowe (Maryland), Moore (Maryland), Brooks (ECU), Beard (ODU),Barefoot(NSU), Brown (Wingate), Johnsonbaugh (RU), Vann (Junior College), Campbell (UNC)...He should have been honored has well! And, Why no college has picked up Blake is stupid the kid is a bulldog! Honestly, without him Hickory may not have made the tourney! So don't tell me that winning doesn't play into this as well. ALL THESE KIDS HAVE HUGE NUMBERS!!! So I guess the proof is in the pudding. I guess I don't watch the same game as everyone else.


Could maybe work on the 'ol "bedside manner" a little bit, but otherwise, you are spot on!
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
And what college will he be representing? ACC school like 1/3 of the line-up? He is not by far the best catcher in the district! I'm not saying he was not the right pick, because his numbers are probably at the top, but would they be at the top if he played for another team...where the whole line up is not going to college.


He was by far the best hitting catcher in the district this year and had to be among the best hitters in the district overall. I'm sure that carried significant weight in the voting.
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
And what college will he be representing? ACC school like 1/3 of the line-up? He is not by far the best catcher in the district! I'm not saying he was not the right pick, because his numbers are probably at the top, but would they be at the top if he played for another team...where the whole line up is not going to college.


I'm curious as to who you think is better? I suspect I know who you are referring to, and again...not close. If I'm right, I wish the young man all the best, playing for an excellent coach, who I consider a friend. He will also enjoy the surroundings in the New River Valley.

Otherwise, Vann was not only the leading hitter on that team, but is easily one of the top few bats in the entire district, much less at his position.

Your view is that "his numbers are probably at the top" of the district, hitting fourth "where the whole line up is going to college". Having re-read that, your argument is lost on me. I'm sure we'll agree to disagree, and that's ok! But, I have to assume that you didn't see many games this year.

Regarding college, let's just say that there are plenty of D1 schools that would love to have a Zach Vann on their roster.
Last edited by GoHeels
G GoHeels1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
Like I said, I'm not questioning his numbers, or his selection. I'm just saying he is not by far the "best." 1st team and 2nd team selections are only worth about 5 cents in college and maybe a little bragging rights.


There are plenty of kids, every year, who bypass college to play professional baseball. There are also tons of kids that choose, for reasons of their own, to go JUCO! Suggesting that he is not the best, because he has not signed a D1 letter of intent, suggests a complete lack of understanding.
Last edited by GoHeels
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
Like I said, I'm not questioning his numbers, or his selection. I'm just saying he is not by far the "best." 1st team and 2nd team selections are only worth about 5 cents in college and maybe a little bragging rights.


Originally you said "the best catcher in the district is not even mentioned", therefore reasonable people can infer that you were questioning his selection before you started backtracking.
S saipanwarrior100+ posts
We can go back and forth all night. You have your opinion of who you think is the best and I have mine. But in the end that's all it is, an opinion.

If numbers really mean anything, then why is Troy Jones not listed on either list? Who else had 8 wins in the District? And really could have been 9-0 if not for two unearned runs in the game he lost 2-1.
B Bubba1210+ posts
There is no doubt who the 1st team catcher should be....Zach Vann, guess no one saw him go 4 for 4 on Tues night with 2 RBI's and one run scored. He always and I mean always steps up in the big games.Anyone remember the 3 run homer and grand slam at state last year.
quote:
Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
I'm not back tracking at all! And just because you are voted on first team, doesn't mean you are the best!


Well then please educate us on your criteria for why your unnamed player was the best catcher in the district this year.
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CARDS FAN:
what up dog, good talking 2 you the other night.How about this situation if you looked at stats led the district in wins, led the district in k;s and led the district in era and only walked 11 guys in 52 innings but got penalized by who he pitched against only to make honorable mention.


I think he was overlooked and as I said before the voting took place, I feared he would be penalized for not getting a start against the best teams in the district. Unfortunately that was out of his control. But that is very different than the catcher selection though. The best catcher was voted 1st team.
B Bubba1210+ posts
Because his fastball barely reaches 80mph on a good day. Just the facts man.
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
We can go back and forth all night. You have your opinion of who you think is the best and I have mine. But in the end that's all it is, an opinion.

If numbers really mean anything, then why is Troy Jones not listed on either list? Who else had 8 wins in the District? And really could have been 9-0 if not for two unearned runs in the game he lost 2-1.
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
We can go back and forth all night. You have your opinion of who you think is the best and I have mine. But in the end that's all it is, an opinion.


Actually we can't go back and forth because you haven't offered up a) the name of the catcher you think was the best in the SED and b) anything to support your claim. Instead you evade and move on to another topic. I think that speaks volumes.
Last edited by Go Dawgs
GD Go Dawgs500+ posts
Ah I see....so somebody from Va Beach with no interest in any team probably watched every single game in the SED to assess who was the best catcher in the district in 2012 and be able to judge better than the 10 coaches of the district who they felt was the best catcher this year.

And we absolutely shouldn't name players we think are the best in the district in fears they may read that somebody thinks they're the best. Confused
B Bubba1210+ posts
Sounds like someone needs some tissues, I have watched players at all positions this year and Vann is one of the best catchers to paly in our entire region in quite a while.
quote:
Originally posted by saipanwarrior:
Like I said, I'm not questioning his numbers, or his selection. I'm just saying he is not by far the "best." 1st team and 2nd team selections are only worth about 5 cents in college and maybe a little bragging rights.
B BLue2610+ posts
I won't disagree that Vann is a good catcher but I don't know if I would be able to say in quite a while in the entire region. I know Saipan has his eyes on the fields all over the place and has a very good eye for talent. Also take into consideration if you have a team full of college players it is easier to get pitches to hit, whereas a player on a young team that is carrying that team will likely be pressing in order to keep his team afloat!
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bubba12:
Sounds like someone needs some tissues, I have watched players at all positions this year and Vann is one of the best catchers to paly in our entire region in quite a while.


Let's not get carried away. He swings it well for a HS hitter. He has quite a way to go to be a top level catch and throw guy.

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