2024 RHP from CA not playing much. Possible D1/P5 recruit. What to do?

What is his current height, weight and confirmed fastball velocity?

As a PO, time is on his side.  The best thing he can do is work on strength and athleticism.  Go play when it opens up and when he starts touching 90 regularly the P5 schools will be ready and willing to talk.  

If he is a P5 prospect, he will have no problem getting on a top travel team that has the contacts and credibility to call any college coach on your son’s  behalf.

***(Been spending lots of time in the gym and at lessons with occasional team practice, so not all is lost.)***

Keep doing what your doing!   One thing at a time.  If he really develops the velo needed for d1 pitching things will sort themselves out. No doubt Covid throws a wrinkle in the mix, but if Cali always HS baseball this spring I would recommend focusing on making the team. Depending on the talent level/depth, doing this as a freshman is not an easy accomplishment.

Get him to some showcases (if his FB veto is in the top percentage range).  Otherwise, get stronger, work on control and then go to showcases.

He's 6 ft, 165 or so. Tall and thin.

Honestly don't know his velo, and yes, we own a pocket radar. Stupid, I know. (We've been focused on getting his older siblings into college. Need some slack here!)

Coach consensus is low-mid 80s (last confirmed during a game from a year ago was 78mph), but the main thing is he has good command (FB, change, curve, slider) and it all seems effortless for him. In a recent local scrimmage he struck out nearly the entire JV team from his HS (7 Ks). But his HS mandates that freshman play only on the frosh team. So while we don't expect he'll have any problem making the team, short term goal is to be more than a PO the first year.

Thank you for the advice. It's very reassuring!

The lack of time on the mound in the last year might be a huge blessing for him going forwards.  The game is riddled with young pitchers who have Tommy John scars.

Give him time to develop.  He’s not truly a P5 guy until he’s throwing in the 90’s.  Have him work with a credible throwing/pitching coach to teach him not only proper mechanics but proper arm care, and get him with a strength coach who can help him build his lower half, which will help his velocity

Best of luck to him and you!

@DD 2024 posted:

Son is a 2024 RHP/CIF. Been told several times he is likely a high level D1 recruit as a PO.

Who told you?  Are they knowledgable about recruiting?  If so, ask them what you should do.  Ask them very specifically what his timetable is, and how they can help him.

I'm a bit cynical; "could be D1 if he develops" is a good way to keep you hooked on doing showcases and travel teams that might ultimately not be the most appropriate.  At least, go into those things with your eyes open.

P5s and other top D1s recruit from freshman year forward.  Most everyone else recruits summer after junior year of HS.

Got it. Thanks for the heads up.

The feedback came from 3 different coaches on 2 different clubs.

Former MiLB player, drafted in the 14th round: "He's a D1 pitcher."

Former MiLB player, drafted in the 2nd round: "He's a high level D1 pitcher."

Former MLB catcher and professional agent: "He's the real deal. Sky's the limit."

Was thinking of asking the agent what the next steps might be.

I would say, you can't control it.  The only thing you can control is development. Keep working hard.  There are a million variables.  We didn't know my son was a D1 pitcher until a lot of D1 schools started calling him.

Hesitated asking because we're changing clubs (going to a bigger, Nationally-known program), but haven't told the old club yet. So the timing is awkward...do we ask advice from people we know now, or wait a few months and ask the new coaches, who've placed dozens of players into college and the minor leagues.

https://community.hsbaseballwe...34#68176099168033334

Yes, this is similar to the mindset we have.

@22and25 posted:

.......................................

  The best thing he can do is work on strength and athleticism.

If he is a P5 prospect, he will have no problem getting on a top travel team that has the contacts and credibility to call any college coach on your son’s  behalf.

Bingo, yatzee!  You need to put this in the hands of the travel team organization whom you will be paying (probably through the nose) to do all the things you are worried about.   Sit down with the travel coach and map out a strategy for his target schools, exposure and development.  This is what they do, and this is what you are paying them to do.   

Monitor your son's progress and the travel teams action items.  Follow up as needed, and begin learning as much as you possibly can about college baseball recruiting.   In the mean time, your son needs to focus on athleticism, strength and (drum roll....please) academics.

Also, don't believe the hype that these former MiLB/MLB players are throwing his way.  He is a high school freshmen.   If you are hearing that fine, but don't pass it on to him.   You don't want him thinking at a very young age that he can get by on his baseball talent alone.  There is so much more to it.  Talented players gets outworked every day by hungrier less talented players.   Just my two cents....

Good luck!

@DD 2024 posted:

Hesitated asking because we're changing clubs (going to a bigger, Nationally-known program), but haven't told the old club yet. So the timing is awkward...do we ask advice from people we know now, or wait a few months and ask the new coaches, who've placed dozens of players into college and the minor leagues.

My opinion, don't worry about it. Keep doing what he is doing, hopefully he will be playing soon. Time is on his side for the moment.  Perhaps a PG showcase will open the door.  Forget about what others say, you want that rating, eventually.

Your son can begin to do research on where he may want to play and the cost of those universities. You can help him with this task. By next summer he should have sent coaches a letter of introduction (email) and his schedule. Don't forget to ask about camps.

A 6f RHP is not necessarily a P5 recruit to me, because you left out the velo part.

Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate all the input.

Our first concern was, and always will be, academics. He's a stellar student and a great test taker, so we have high expectations in that department, baseball or no baseball.

Our next concern, about this time last year, was: does he want it? After pounding through lessons and a year of 5 days/week in the gym with very little playing time (1 tournament since the shutdown last March), the answer is clearly yes.

Next concern was: is he getting good instruction? Took a while, but we found someone to teach him how to pitch: spin, pitch sequence, and arm care. One of his coaches offered input wrt to speed, which in his case translates to using his legs more. Have made significant progress on both of these.

Next, and most recent concern, is: how to market his abilities, esp given California and covid? Lack of playing time and even scrimmage time means we don't have any recent velo readings. Again, the coaches are saying low-mid 80s right now, but I really have no idea. It could be 80, could be 90. No one has gunned him.

Seems most of the positive/D1-type comments we've gotten to date reflect his projectability...pitching is just so easy for him. Throws are accurate and look effortless. His command is stellar.

Again, I will come back with a velo reading ASAP. Thanks all. So helpful.

2024;

since you live 15 miles from Stanford, why not enroll in one of the Stanford's camp at at San Mateo JC?

Do you watch the JC games?

Bob

@DD 2025

You don't have to rush with the  gun reading. Your son is young. Again he has time.  I dont believe in putting the gun on pitchers too soon. He  probably is projectable due to height. Velocity and 3,4 offerings (pitches) for P5 coaches will come.

FWIW, at your sons age, my pitcher was same height and the first time they put the radar gun on him he was low 80s. Three years later he was at 90. 

So sit back at relax and enjoy!

@Consultant posted:

2024;

since you live 15 miles from Stanford, why not enroll in one of the Stanford's camp at at San Mateo JC?

Do you watch the JC games?

Bob

Bob,

Great idea for next summer!

Low-mid 80's RHP = keep grinding.  by waiting you can pick from the schools that align best with his final ability.  A bubble guy that reaches up For a better school Sits on the bench for 4 years   if the velo climbs as your sources predict, there will still be spots made available.  And if those guys are wrong and he's stays in the low 80s He's gonna be miserable at the kind of schools that would offer him as a 2024.

Are you confusing “potential to be a D1 prospect” with “he’s a D1 prospect?” I’ve never heard of anyone throwing 80 being a D1 prospect.

There are also various levels of D1 prospect. A major conference/other top competitive programs are looking for a pitcher who will touch 90. A bottom 100 (there are 300 D1’s) D1 may be looking for 85 who can throw strikes.

Hitting 80 heading into freshman year is promising. But he has to improve his velocity consistently over the next two years. He also has room to fill out. How much more is he expected to grow?

The way to know a player is a D1 prospect is travel teams with reputations for placing most or all of their players in D1 ball are recruiting him. Other teams will ask him to guest when available.

@RJM posted:

Are you confusing “potential to be a D1 prospect” with “he’s a D1 prospect?” I’ve never heard of anyone throwing 80 being a D1 prospect.

There are also various levels of D1 prospect. A major conference/other top competitive programs are looking for a pitcher who will touch 90. A bottom 100 (there are 300 D1’s) D1 may be looking for 85 who can throw strikes.

Hitting 80 heading into freshman year is promising. But he has to improve his velocity consistently over the next two years. He also has room to fill out. How much more is he expected to grow?

The way to know a player is a D1 prospect is travel teams with reputations for placing most or all of their players in D1 ball are recruiting him. Other teams will ask him to guest when available.

Good question. I don't fully know.

One of his coaches suggested he start to target the Ivy League. Another suggested Stanford, which, yes, is close by.

His projection is 6'2" maybe 6'3".

Thanks re: travel ball recruiting. I'll keep that in mind. Great advice. Right now, there are 3 clubs asking about his availability for summer. 2 of them are national-level.

@bandera posted:

Low-mid 80's RHP = keep grinding.  by waiting you can pick from the schools that align best with his final ability.  A bubble guy that reaches up For a better school Sits on the bench for 4 years   if the velo climbs as your sources predict, there will still be spots made available.  And if those guys are wrong and he's stays in the low 80s He's gonna be miserable at the kind of schools that would offer him as a 2024.

100%. My daughter is also a RHP/1B who can smack it. She's headed to a D3 school this fall. Somewhere where she will play every inning of every game. Playing time is everything.

@Consultant posted:

2024;

since you live 15 miles from Stanford, why not enroll in one of the Stanford's camp at at San Mateo JC?

Do you watch the JC games?

Bob

Are those camps happening? So far I don't see anything.

We've been to several games at Stanford. Never to a JC game. Great suggestion!!

@TPM posted:

@DD 2025

You don't have to rush with the  gun reading. Your son is young. Again he has time.  I dont believe in putting the gun on pitchers too soon. He  probably is projectable due to height. Velocity and 3,4 offerings (pitches) for P5 coaches will come.

FWIW, at your sons age, my pitcher was same height and the first time they put the radar gun on him he was low 80s. Three years later he was at 90.

So sit back at relax and enjoy!

Thanks. That's exactly what I was thinking!  How many 15 year olds throw 90mph??  I'm sure there are a few, but probably only a few. Most of the 100mph guys probably aren't even at 90mph yet at that age.

As for projectability, we've been told he has "arm talent", i.e. his mechanics from the waist up are nearly perfect. This has been a recurring comment since Little League.

@DD 2024 posted:

Good question. I don't fully know.

One of his coaches suggested he start to target the Ivy League. Another suggested Stanford, which, yes, is close by.

His projection is 6'2" maybe 6'3".

Thanks re: travel ball recruiting. I'll keep that in mind. Great advice. Right now, there are 3 clubs asking about his availability for summer. 2 of them are national-level.

There are active posters with kids who pitched at Ivies. I believe they will tell you it’s a little early to show to Ivies. It’s a little early to show anywhere unless the player is close to the metrics they’re looking for, These posters can really help you with the Ivy angle.

DD 2024 - I sent you a PM in response to RJM's comment above.  PMs are found in the top right corner.  Click on your Avatar, and you should see it.

My son was in the mid/upper 70's as a HS freshman....and was 5'6 and maybe 110 at the time.  Ended up 6', 170 and was upper 80's to 90 the summer after his junior year.  At that size, he was on the radar of mid-majors....but nothing higher.  a 6' - 6'2 RHP is going to need to be 90 to play for a mid-major and even higher to be at a top level D1.   The 2024's that are being recruited/offered by top level D1's are throwing mid-upper 80's in most cases.   At this point, until you have a verified velo sending emails/videos to coaches is probably not going to get you much interest.  Moving to a top level travel org will be a huge help.  Once they see your son and know what he has to offer, getting his name in front of schools will be much easier.  My son played for a top level org his junior summer and there were 50+ coaches at every game he threw that season.

@Buckeye 2015 posted:

My son was in the mid/upper 70's as a HS freshman....and was 5'6 and maybe 110 at the time.  Ended up 6', 170 and was upper 80's to 90 the summer after his junior year.  At that size, he was on the radar of mid-majors....but nothing higher.  a 6' - 6'2 RHP is going to need to be 90 to play for a mid-major and even higher to be at a top level D1.   The 2024's that are being recruited/offered by top level D1's are throwing mid-upper 80's in most cases.   At this point, until you have a verified velo sending emails/videos to coaches is probably not going to get you much interest.  Moving to a top level travel org will be a huge help.  Once they see your son and know what he has to offer, getting his name in front of schools will be much easier.  My son played for a top level org his junior summer and there were 50+ coaches at every game he threw that season.

Hey thanks. This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

So 90 is the magic over/under.

The more you're over it - less need to market or worry about recruiting.

The more you are under it - have to work harder to get a spot.

Buckeye - where did your son go after HS?

@DD 2024 posted:

Hey thanks. This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

So 90 is the magic over/under.

The more you're over it - less need to market or worry about recruiting.

The more you are under it - have to work harder to get a spot.

Buckeye - where did you son go after HS?

90 is a pretty common measuring stick but it is all relative to where you want to play and your expectations of playing time.  90 will be a Friday starter at many levels and a 4 year bench warmer at higher levels.

A top 25 ACC coach told my son very directly that to expect to play in the ACC, as a right handed pitcher, you need to be 92 plus with good stuff.  The key word there is “expect” to play.  Doesn’t mean they don’t take kids who haven’t touched 92 but the bulk of their innings are pitched by guys who at least touch that number.  He also told my son to be sure he chooses a school at a level where he can reasonably expect to play based on his stuff.  No competitor wants to sit on the bench.

to my line of thinking, if you are a mid-80's freshman you can find and accept a top tier school offer.  it's possible with the right connections.  if you DO get to the metrics they need, it works out great for the player and the school.  But if you don't develop into 90+, they turn you lose (either before the NLI or in December of your freshman year of college).  zero risk for them.  the player however has lost 3~4 years of developing relationships with other schools/coaches and has to find a new school in a very short time frame when most schools already have their recruiting class figured out.  this is a huge disadvantage for the player.

orgs want to push players to elite schools.  it's great marketing for them to get the next crop of players to join the organization.  that works out fine for pro prospects.  but when the player is a bubble player at that school, he is going to have a disappointing time there.  much better for the player to find the RIGHT fit.  a place where his talent gets him on the field in a reasonable amount of time ('reasonable' depends on your personal views).  a place where he gets a good education.  a place that develops and grows the player to the right path of adulthood.   JMHO.

@DD 2024 posted:

Hey thanks. This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

So 90 is the magic over/under.

The more you're over it - less need to market or worry about recruiting.

The more you are under it - have to work harder to get a spot.

Buckeye - where did your son go after HS?

Bowling Green State University.  He was a reliever to start his freshman year....then moved to Saturday starter.  Started most of his sophomore year then was the closer his junior year....they only won 10 games....so not much "closing" was needed lol.  DH/1B his senior year.   Most of the starters in the MAC were 90-ish....with a few lefties that were 85-86.  Closers were 90+ in most cases.  We played a few P5's over the 4 years, but normally didn't see their top guys...but even the guys we saw were normally right around 90 if not more.  If your son ends up 6'5 or 6'6 it will be a completely recruiting scenario than if he is 6'1 or 6'2.  For whatever reason 6'6 and 90mph is a much bigger draw than 6' throwing the same lol

The height thing for pitchers was pretty remarkable when I started looking at “early commits.” With very few exceptions, there appears to be a bright line test right at 6’2”.

2024

Do you attend Serra or San Mateo HS? When our 16-18 year old Santa Rosa Team played San Mateo, it was a "war'!

Many games were decided by our pitchers, who had "accidental" control and "movement" on the fast ball. San Mateo Summer Team in one year had 4 players who played later in the MLB.

Bob

Things get tougher every year. More kids throw 90, more kids throw 95.  At my son’s D1 this fall, every freshman pitcher (9 of them) threw at least 94.  There are 24 pitchers on the roster, so  a good portion of them aren’t going to play.   You need velo but have to have more than that.

@bandera posted:

to my line of thinking, if you are a mid-80's freshman you can find and accept a top tier school offer.  it's possible with the right connections.  if you DO get to the metrics they need, it works out great for the player and the school.  But if you don't develop into 90+, they turn you lose (either before the NLI or in December of your freshman year of college).  zero risk for them.  the player however has lost 3~4 years of developing relationships with other schools/coaches and has to find a new school in a very short time frame when most schools already have their recruiting class figured out.  this is a huge disadvantage for the player.

orgs want to push players to elite schools.  it's great marketing for them to get the next crop of players to join the organization.  that works out fine for pro prospects.  but when the player is a bubble player at that school, he is going to have a disappointing time there.  much better for the player to find the RIGHT fit.  a place where his talent gets him on the field in a reasonable amount of time ('reasonable' depends on your personal views).  a place where he gets a good education.  a place that develops and grows the player to the right path of adulthood.   JMHO.

Great insight. Thank you.

So when do most D1 players commit? So much focus on the freshman and sophomore verbals, one would think there's nothing else.

@baseballhs posted:

Things get tougher every year. More kids throw 90, more kids throw 95.  At my son’s D1 this fall, every freshman pitcher (9 of them) threw at least 94.  There are 24 pitchers on the roster, so  a good portion of them aren’t going to play.   You need velo but have to have more than that.

Wow. Crap.

How much more?

Is this a P5 or mid-major?

You need command, movement, good breaking balls.  Two of the freshmen hit 97 in the fall.  It’s a tough landscape. It’s an upper level P5.

There might some value in polling the HSBBW population here.  A) did your kid ever garner comments like "He'll be D1" or "He's a D1 talent"?  B) did he end up going D1?

My kid sure got comments like that.  By just about every coach he played for.  One spent several years in the minors, is still a stud athlete and is quite possibly the smartest baseball mind I've ever come across.  So multiple people with resumes sent comments just like that our way and from a very young age on.  Just last November, my son signed his LOI to go play JUCO ball this fall.  He still has a shot at playing D1 ball after JUCO, but that's still TBD.  He did get some good interest from a couple D1 schools, but obviously it wasn't good enough.  In my mind, those comments you're hearing are cancerous.  Or at least CAN be.  When taken with some humility and humbleness, they can give you warm fuzzies.  And who doesn't like that?  But take them seriously and they'll have you straddling the fine line between optimism and entitlement.  My son ran in to at least some struggle with letting go of the bright lights of D1.  Thankfully, he was able do so and see the incredible opportunity that he DID have. 

One thing I don't see talked about much are grades.  Not specifics, anyway.  One of the biggest cliches (that is true) we all get early in the recruiting process is "grades are REALLY important."  Most parents I see respond by saying something like "oh, that's not a problem.  My son does really well in school. He's serious about his education."  But specifics seem to be something almost no one gets into.  My 2021 son's high school GPA is a 3.1 (out of 4.0), so a B/B+.  Guess what?  His grades were a concern for some - including the JUCO coach he's now set to play for.  I am by no means an expert, but from all I've gathered and experienced, you REALLY want to be 3.5 or higher (out of 4).  A 3.1 GPA will likely be more than enough to play D1 football, but baseball is a very different deal.  I'd argue that good grades handcuff a player.  They need to be GREAT or pretty close.  At least for position players.

@DD 2024 posted:

Great insight. Thank you.

So when do most D1 players commit? So much focus on the freshman and sophomore verbals, one would think there's nothing else.

Most of the D1 players(P5) that went to surrounding HS near me or I know committed in the Fall/Winter of their sophomore year. Keep in mind, they committed to schools like USC, Stanford, Vanderbilt. From what your describing your son like, these guys were like him. There are some exceptions. Couple players committed to P5 summer after junior year. Another Player near me was committed to USC and switched his commitment to Texas in fall of senior year. Another player was committed to UCLA and switched to Vanderbilt after the NLI signing. I also know of one similar to what your describing your son like who was committed to Stanford as a Sophmore and never signed any NLI. I’m assuming his grades went down. He’s a 2021 RHP 89-90 on the mound. Uncommitted now.

@DanJ posted:

There might some value in polling the HSBBW population here.  A) did your kid ever garner comments like "He'll be D1" or "He's a D1 talent"?  B) did he end up going D1?

My kid sure got comments like that.  By just about every coach he played for.  One spent several years in the minors, is still a stud athlete and is quite possibly the smartest baseball mind I've ever come across.  So multiple people with resumes sent comments just like that our way and from a very young age on.  Just last November, my son signed his LOI to go play JUCO ball this fall.  He still has a shot at playing D1 ball after JUCO, but that's still TBD.  He did get some good interest from a couple D1 schools, but obviously it wasn't good enough.  In my mind, those comments you're hearing are cancerous.  Or at least CAN be.  When taken with some humility and humbleness, they can give you warm fuzzies.  And who doesn't like that?  But take them seriously and they'll have you straddling the fine line between optimism and entitlement.  My son ran in to at least some struggle with letting go of the bright lights of D1.  Thankfully, he was able do so and see the incredible opportunity that he DID have.

Hey now that's great insight.

I have older kids who will play college sports. One of them dominated in 10U-12U and will go on to play D3 in college. It was very hard for us to scale down our expectations. Took years, but reality is here. And it's 100% fine. More than fine.

So maybe the question should be - what makes a D3 vs mid D1 vs high D1 vs pro player? One amazing pitch that can fool batters and a couple mediocre ones? Ability to mix pitches that all look the same at delivery? Change of speed? Two sets of pitches? Overpowering speed? Lots of height? Seems like someone should be able to draw up a matrix with probabilities.