My apologies everyone if this has been addressed a million times before, but I can't seem to find a simple explanation of the 25% rule I have heard about. My son is a 2020 grad and received a verbal 20% offer from a D1. Does this mean the school should actually be offering 5% more????

And how is this percentage applied? Off of total cost to attend or final cost after financial aid is taken into consideration?

Original Post

Yes, 25% (of tuition, room, board, fees, and books) is the minimum and I can't think of a reason that the D1 coach would tell you 20%. I believe that D1 schools have the option of including personal expenses (transportation, meals, etc) in the total athletic scholarship number, which amounts to something like $3,000/yr. Below is a pretty thorough discussion on scholarship dollars.

https://community.hsbaseballwe...25#35225222602586925

It's a 25% minimum IF the program is fully funded.  That is the rub - many DI programs aren't fully funded and often it is not public information how many baseball scholarships a particular program has.  Most State universaries are fully funded, but not privates by any stretch - for the privates, it can depend on .  I'm let more knowledgeable folks weigh in...

I have a question about room & board. In two instances so far an RC has told my son that they couldn't cover room & board or room & board wasn't part of the calculation.

Is this just a matter of semantics if in each case the dollar amount was 25% or more of the total cost (tuition, room & board, books)?

I think the 25% minimum holds whether the program is fully funded or not. If a program is not fully funded, it will offer fewer than 11.7 scholarships (for instance, instead of spreading 11.7 scholarships out, with a minimum of 25% they would spread out 8 scholarships with a minimum of 25%.

Interesting question on room and board. We were never told that, just that school would cover tuition, which came out to a little over 25%.

 

nycdad posted:

I have a question about room & board. In two instances so far an RC has told my son that they couldn't cover room & board or room & board wasn't part of the calculation.

Is this just a matter of semantics if in each case the dollar amount was 25% or more of the total cost (tuition, room & board, books)?

Probably just semantics. Some coaches will say the opposite... "full scholarship"... when they're really talking about covering full tuition. Minimum is still 25%, regardless of how many scholarships are funded.

The 25% is a hard and fast rule. If the program isn't fully funded, that doesn't mean the coach can offer 10% or 20%. One school my son talked with was funded to 4.8 scholarships, total -- still, the offer must be at least 25% to an incoming student.

Here is the NCAA rule:

15.5.4 Baseball Limitations. There shall be an annual limit of 11.7 on the value of financial aid awards (equivalencies) to counters and an annual limit of 27 on the total number of counters in baseball at each institution. 

15.5.4.1 Minimum Equivalency Value. An institution shall provide each counter athletically related and other countable financial aid that is equal to or greater than 25 percent of an equivalency. 

15.5.4.1.1 Exception -- Need-Based Athletics Aid Only. In baseball, an institution that awards athletically related financial aid based solely on demonstrated financial need, as determined for all students by the institution's financial aid office using methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines (including institutional financial aid that is considered athletically related financial aid based on the intervention of athletics department staff), is not subject to the 25 percent minimum equivalency value per counter. 

15.5.4.1.2 Exception -- Final Year of Eligibility and Not Previously Aided. An institution may provide less than 25 percent of an equivalency to a student-athlete, provided the student-athlete is in the final year of eligibility and has not previously received athletically related financial aid in baseball at any collegiate institution. 

Okay, I was mistaken...they offered 20k, not 20%. So, help me out here...the school's total cost of attendance is 75K (ouch). You take 20k off of that = 55k. I do the Net Price Calculator and let's say it says I have to pay 25K. I then apply for financial aid and hope for the best? Is that how this works? 

LetItGo posted:

Okay, I was mistaken...they offered 20k, not 20%. So, help me out here...the school's total cost of attendance is 75K (ouch). You take 20k off of that = 55k. I do the Net Price Calculator and let's say it says I have to pay 25K. I then apply for financial aid and hope for the best? Is that how this works? 

Better than that. If NPC says you will likely owe 25K, and his baseball scholarship is 20K, you will owe 5K for the year. That's assuming that the coach was specifically referring to a 20K athletic scholarship, and not some other type of aid. If your son is serious about this school, you should run the NPC then schedule time to talk details with the coach and with Financial Aid. The NPC is just an estimate.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
LetItGo posted:

Okay, I was mistaken...they offered 20k, not 20%. So, help me out here...the school's total cost of attendance is 75K (ouch). You take 20k off of that = 55k. I do the Net Price Calculator and let's say it says I have to pay 25K. I then apply for financial aid and hope for the best? Is that how this works? 

Better than that. If NPC says you will likely owe 25K, and his baseball scholarship is 20K, you will owe 5K for the year. That's assuming that the coach was specifically referring to a 20K athletic scholarship, and not some other type of aid. If your son is serious about this school, you should run the NPC then schedule time to talk details with the coach and with Financial Aid. The NPC is just an estimate.

I'm not sure this is how it works at all schools. My son was informed by one school he was talking to that need-based financial aid (loan free) and an athletic scholarship could not be combined. So I would clarify with the school.

BBMomAZ posted:
MidAtlanticDad posted:
LetItGo posted:

Okay, I was mistaken...they offered 20k, not 20%. So, help me out here...the school's total cost of attendance is 75K (ouch). You take 20k off of that = 55k. I do the Net Price Calculator and let's say it says I have to pay 25K. I then apply for financial aid and hope for the best? Is that how this works? 

Better than that. If NPC says you will likely owe 25K, and his baseball scholarship is 20K, you will owe 5K for the year. That's assuming that the coach was specifically referring to a 20K athletic scholarship, and not some other type of aid. If your son is serious about this school, you should run the NPC then schedule time to talk details with the coach and with Financial Aid. The NPC is just an estimate.

I'm not sure this is how it works at all schools. My son was informed by one school he was talking to that need-based financial aid (loan free) and an athletic scholarship could not be combined. So I would clarify with the school.

Correct. It's one or the other. Academic scholarships and athletic scholarships, however, can be combined, per this NCAA rule:

15.5.3.2.4.1 Academic Honor Awards -- Based on High School Record. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computations, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math) for SAT tests taken before March 1, 2016; or a minimum SAT score of 1270 (critical reading and math) for tests taken on or after March 1, 2016, based on the concordance determined by the College Board. 

15.5.3.2.4.1.1 Additional Requirements. The following additional requirements shall be met:

(a) The awards may include additional, nonacademic criteria (e.g., interviews, essays, need analysis), provided the additional criteria are not based on athletics ability, participation or interests, and the awards are consistent with the pattern of all such awards provided to all students;

(b) No quota of awards shall be designated for student-athletes;

(c) Athletics participation shall not be required before or after collegiate enrollment;

(d) No athletics department staff member shall be involved in designating the recipients of such awards; and

(e) Any additional criteria shall not include athletics ability, participation or interests.

15.5.3.2.4.1.2 Renewals. The renewal of an academic honor award (per Bylaw 15.5.3.2.4.1) may be exempted from an institution’s equivalency computation regardless of whether the recipient qualified for exemption in his or her initial academic year enrollment, provided:

(a) The recipient achieves a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.000 (based on a maximum of 4.000) at the certifying institution; and

(b) The recipient meets all NCAA, conference and institutional progress-toward-degree requirements.

BBMomAZ posted:
MidAtlanticDad posted:
LetItGo posted:

Okay, I was mistaken...they offered 20k, not 20%. So, help me out here...the school's total cost of attendance is 75K (ouch). You take 20k off of that = 55k. I do the Net Price Calculator and let's say it says I have to pay 25K. I then apply for financial aid and hope for the best? Is that how this works? 

Better than that. If NPC says you will likely owe 25K, and his baseball scholarship is 20K, you will owe 5K for the year. That's assuming that the coach was specifically referring to a 20K athletic scholarship, and not some other type of aid. If your son is serious about this school, you should run the NPC then schedule time to talk details with the coach and with Financial Aid. The NPC is just an estimate.

I'm not sure this is how it works at all schools. My son was informed by one school he was talking to that need-based financial aid (loan free) and an athletic scholarship could not be combined. So I would clarify with the school.

Yes thanks, I neglected the equivalency part of this. Big miss on my part.

LetItGo, this is why you really need to get details from the school. The main issue is that the need-based aid will likely count against the baseball team's 11.7 limit. So if the school is fully funded for baseball, they can't "stack" the two scholarships for your son without going over the limit. However, if they don't fully fund baseball, they might have room for the need-based aid. You're really going to have to get them to bottom-line it for you before you'll know the out-of-pocket dollar amount.

Don't guess.  You should be able to get the financial aide department involved and they can give you a view of the whole package, before you commit.  Call the financial aid office and let the coach know you are before you want to say yes.  The FA office would then reach out to the coach send you the details in writing.

Regardless, congratulations to you and your son.

My son's school made their offer on paper, which I assume originated in the financial dept, it was broken down line item by item into a bottom line number, pre any kind of financial aid that he could possibly qualify for. I much appreciated the straightforward approach and lack of confusion vs the clear as mud approach others were. If there's no bottom line number on the offer, by all means contact the financial dept so that they can work with the coach to get it in writing.       

I've heard of D2 and JUCO offers in dollar figures but never a D1 offer. Every offer I have ever heard was given in percentages. I know the way the schools break it up varies; tuition + room+meals, tuition and books, flat out tuition, etc, but make sure what you know what you're getting into. An unexpected 13k room and board fee is never fun. 

I know the kids are supposed to be the ones interacting with the coaches and asking the questions, but when it comes to financial stuff you should really have your son ask the coach if you can ask a few questions or at the very least join in on speaker. He'll let you. And if he doesn't, then you're in the wrong place to begin with. 

PABaseball posted:

I've heard of D2 and JUCO offers in dollar figures but never a D1 offer. Every offer I have ever heard was given in percentages.

Not true.  Son's D1 scholly was given in dollar amounts (easier for the coach, he said).  

This came to sort of bite us in the rear when tuition rose in the two years from offer to receiving the bill. 

You want a percentage, per the reason the above.

nycdad posted:

I have a question about room & board. In two instances so far an RC has told my son that they couldn't cover room & board or room & board wasn't part of the calculation.

Is this just a matter of semantics if in each case the dollar amount was 25% or more of the total cost (tuition, room & board, books)?

For us, the scholarship amount came off the bill.  Tuition + room + board + fees  -  less scholarship.  

You all have made some great, great points! Thank you so, so much. Not to be greedy, but has anyone compiled a list of questions to ask the coach about the scholarship offered? Because it certainly sounds like the next step for me. And yes, one of my questions was if it is okay for Mom to talk to the coach about all this. Sounds like it may be time.

Sorry for wrong info re: DI 25% rule - it applies even if the program is not fully funded.  In DII baseball the athletic scholarships can be cut up however the coach desires.

Good luck and yes it is appropriate for a parent to discuss athletic and financial aid with the coach.

LetItGo posted:

You all have made some great, great points! Thank you so, so much. Not to be greedy, but has anyone compiled a list of questions to ask the coach about the scholarship offered? Because it certainly sounds like the next step for me. And yes, one of my questions was if it is okay for Mom to talk to the coach about all this. Sounds like it may be time.

Completely OK for the person/s responsible for paying to be directly involved in the conversation clarifying what/how much will be paid !!  This is the #1 line item where parents can and should chime in.

nycdad posted:

Just to clarify; regardless of whether amount is communicated in percentage or dollars, the calculation is based on COA (tuition, R&B, AND books) and not just tuition correct?

Yes, tuition+room+board+books+fees. Percentage really comes into play with regard to the 25% minimum. They have to offer a baseball player at least 25% of that number. For public schools, obviously the in-state number would be less than the out-of-state number.

Schools offer $ as opposed to % because cost of attendance (COA) changes (increases).  They have to report % to NCAA.  And let's assume they promise you that dollar amount for all four years.  The % of COA will decrease for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years due to COA increases.  That leave more % for incoming players for those other three years.

And perhaps they only offer it for one year.  Then I would imagine the coach would offer the same number in subsequent years (unless he lowers the amount or takes it away based on performance) because he can say he's sticking to the original offer--but of course the % is less--which is all that matters to the NCAA.

ABSORBER posted:

Schools offer $ as opposed to % because cost of attendance (COA) changes (increases).  They have to report % to NCAA.  And let's assume they promise you that dollar amount for all four years.  The % of COA will decrease for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years due to COA increases.  That leave more % for incoming players for those other three years.

And perhaps they only offer it for one year.  Then I would imagine the coach would offer the same number in subsequent years (unless he lowers the amount or takes it away based on performance) because he can say he's sticking to the original offer--but of course the % is less--which is all that matters to the NCAA.

I think this is a big part of it.  In my son's case, the school was combining academic dollars and athletic dollars, so it seemed logical to come out as a dollar figure, but it also benefits the school for the reasons you mention.  We just factored that in to the decision.

ABSORBER posted:

Schools offer $ as opposed to % because cost of attendance (COA) changes (increases).  They have to report % to NCAA.  And let's assume they promise you that dollar amount for all four years.  The % of COA will decrease for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th years due to COA increases.  That leave more % for incoming players for those other three years.

And perhaps they only offer it for one year.  Then I would imagine the coach would offer the same number in subsequent years (unless he lowers the amount or takes it away based on performance) because he can say he's sticking to the original offer--but of course the % is less--which is all that matters to the NCAA.

Unless you go to a P5. The percentage cannot decrease for the 4/5 years you're there so even if COA goes up the dollar value of the percentage will increase as well. 

Qhead posted:

It's a 25% minimum IF the program is fully funded.  That is the rub - many DI programs aren't fully funded and often it is not public information how many baseball scholarships a particular program has.  Most State universaries are fully funded, but not privates by any stretch - for the privates, it can depend on .  I'm let more knowledgeable folks weigh in...

Per the NCAA 2015 less than 15% of the 300 D1 baseball programs are fully funded. With fully funded being 11.5 scholarships, most are around 7 . Some close to 9. But most schools are NOT fully funded

StrainedOblique posted:
Qhead posted:

It's a 25% minimum IF the program is fully funded.  That is the rub - many DI programs aren't fully funded and often it is not public information how many baseball scholarships a particular program has.  Most State universaries are fully funded, but not privates by any stretch - for the privates, it can depend on .  I'm let more knowledgeable folks weigh in...

Per the NCAA 2015 less than 15% of the 300 D1 baseball programs are fully funded. With fully funded being 11.5 scholarships, most are around 7 . Some close to 9. But most schools are NOT fully funded

Isn’t it 11.7?

If a school has "guaranteed" academic money, meaning you get it based on your HS grades/test scores.  Son's offer when the coach called was $5,000 for baseball, $5,000 for academic.  The cost of attendance was $20k, so he was at 25% for baseball.  If I remember right, his NLI did list his offer at $5,000....not as a percentage. 

Iowamom23 posted:
StrainedOblique posted:

Per the NCAA 2015 less than 15% of the 300 D1 baseball programs are fully funded. With fully funded being 11.5 scholarships, most are around 7 . Some close to 9. But most schools are NOT fully funded

Isn’t it 11.7?

Yes, 11.7.  It stems from a reduction made in the 90s, when D1 reduced the number of baseball scholarships by 10%, from 13 to 11.7.

I think the numbers are a little better than what is being discussed here. 

From the ABCA, the average number of scholarships is 10.58 -- half the programs have maximum 11.7 and the other half average about 9.5 scholarships. 

FWIW: https://d1baseball.com/news/ab...mer-2019-hot-topics/

Excerpts:

"First, some data provided by the ABCA:

Total Division I baseball programs in 2018: 297

Limit of scholarship equivalencies: 11.7

Number of programs offering 11.7 scholarships: 149 (50 percent)

Average number of equivalencies awarded: 10.58

Average number of student-athletes receiving aid: 24 (out of a maximum 27)"

"But in order to make any kind of serious push to increase the scholarship limit, baseball needs to present a more unified front — which has long proven difficult because only half of Division I programs are fully funded at 11.7 scholarships."

Keep in mind a school has two scholarship budgets for baseball. One is the equivalents reported to the NCAA that sum up to no more than 11.7. The other is a dollar budget given to them by the University. 

The point here is a D1 in the Southland conference like Abilene Christian may fund the full 11.7 but not have the dollar budget for out of state players, while University of Texas doesn't worry about the dollar amount of the scholarship, just the equivalent reported to the NCAA overlords. 

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