35 man college roster info

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I understand they also took some financial aid off the list of those that constitute counters. not sure of any details.
Things may be ammended as and if problems arise.

putting another monkey-wrench into the mix??LOL

Just some good reading:

http://www.ballparkdigest.com/news/2007/ncaa_rule_changes.html

This is a good one prior to the 33/25 change plus mixed monies

http://www.newsobserver.com/734/v-print/story/576915.html

Just before the 33 to 25 mixed:

Polk is a general?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=...bach_mark&id=2895944

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/baseball/2007-06-15-polk-ncaa_N.htm


**** now we can see how the rule changed from 33 to 25% with mixed monies...........

They didn't tell me about the grandfather part, someone else mentioned it here and I think I heard it from someone else.

If anyone has a player in school and knows any different, please let us know.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
They didn't tell me about the grandfather part, someone else mentioned it here and I think I heard it from someone else.

If amyone has a player in school and knows any different, please let us know.

****all roads lead one to believe each player, new or old on scholarship of some sort must be at 25% and will most likely be on the Fall roster as a counter in the Fall of 2008.

With all the debate over valid rosters, I agree the upcoming Fall rosters in 2008 will hold true into Spring, and the wiggle room will be there for the coaches to add non-counters as they feel the need.

Some of the article links mentioned these changes will prohibit a D1 coach from adding a JUCO transfer between semesters because of the Fall qualification portion of the rules.

IMO, these NCAA guys and the group of coaches on the commitee know lots more than we do because they have daily experience.

I suppose we can be passive and somewhat naive' to take what they say as gospel, but I like the Polk quotes because he is a ball'o'fire.

Another thing to remember is 11.7 for a FF program still doesn't go to far, and college baseball at the D1 level is treated as the red-headed stepchild.

Where does all that $$$$ from the ESPN CWS go to??

How about the bat companies and their profits based on effectively college players using this stuff and getting this metal junk on national TV.

30 full rides to our young men ottadoit!!!!

I am not sure if the NCAA passes any $$ from CWS to teams that participate or win. I am not sure about basketball either.

I do know that schools get $$ for winning their football bowl games.

I never believed in full scholarships for baseball. The more and more I see how the NCAA works the more I believe they should.

Interesting, one article talks about NCAA not liking their student athletes for baseball being drafted, yet schools spend tons of money on making football players and basketball players future pro stars.

I think it all a shame because we loved the college baseball experience and so did son. Considering the odds of getting to the show, college is the more sensible of the two. New rules will push more players who used to want to go to school first into pro ball after HS. That's good for the ones who get very good money, I am not so sure that is good for the ones who don't. I just told one poster here, my son gave up his turf shoes to someone who couldn't afford them and was going to be fined for not having the right color. You don't get that free stuff from the coach like you do in college. And you can't afford it on 5500 for 6 months.

When I sent mine off to college, in the fall there were 35 and the same 35 played in the spring. I thought there was a max roster limit. Then I began hearing stories of recruits showing up and so were 45 others. It really got to me.

If anything, I do hope that the new rules will eliminate poor recruiting in college baseball, coaches will do the right thing and players and their families will do lots of homework before making choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

If anything, I do hope that the new rules will eliminate poor recruiting in college baseball, coaches will do the right thing and players and their families will do lots of homework before making choices.

So asking a coach while being recruited something like, "hey coach, am I your guy, do you need me to win" is not so out of line. Why not get things straight from the beginning!!

Since we all now know the rules for spring how about "how many do you ask to come in the fall"?

OS, you asked a question but delted but here is my answer:
As far as pro ball, that was very much in the discussion. Also, my son was considered one on the "three year plan". Most don't discuss that with you until your draft year, but I know many who were called in their junior year and told if you get drafted, you got to go because your money is spent. We appreciated the honesty and everything was up front.

TPM,

How did you and/or your son handle discussing that with the scouts who would inquire about signability? Did they (scouts) know his money was already spent prior to this years draft?.......just curious......

That was between his coaches and him. He got a lot to get him out of state, and most likley to forgo the draft in HS, more than most get and schools can can afford to give. Most schools who spoke to him told him they only expected him to stay 3 years. Most coaches work their budgets and 11.7 on those who will most likely be 3 or 4 or 5 year players.

As far as this years draft, my son made it known he was ready to go pro. He never played the, if you don't give me enough I am staying, routine, making him more signable than in HS. What I have learned is that you have that option in HS, but by your junior year, you should know whether it's time to move on or stay put. He also got a lot of good advise.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I am not sure if the NCAA passes any $$ from CWS to teams that participate or win. I am not sure about basketball either. I do know that schools get $$ for winning their football bowl games.

In football the teams get a share. So do their conference. When the bowl games are listed in December they often have a dollar amount posted. That's the payout to the school. It's the same win or lose. When schools go to the 750K and less bowls they lose money. It's costly to take a team and equipment on the road to a bowl. It's more than the regular season weekend commitment.

The big BCS money has generated so much money for a select number of conferences athletic departments, more BCS football powers have become basketball powers since the origin on the BCS. I believe in basketball all tournament money is shared by the conference.

While I was a graduate of a major conference school, I believe the BCS has been such a screwing for so many non BCS D1 athletic departments it pushes me to root for the underdog (except when we play them). It's not something I did in the past. I always enjoyed a good. clean surgery. But that was when the playing field was level. I loved watching Boise State beat Oklahoma.

The reason college presidents are against a football playoff system is they don't want to lose the dollars from their major bowl tie ins. That's guaranteed money. A playoff could open up the door ($$$) to those teams from the other side of the track.

OK, off my soapbox and back to baseball. Yes, baseball should be better funded. NCAA, you have four years to do something about it before my son gets to college. You're already screwing me in softball with my daughter. For those who don't know NCAA softball and baseball rules are much the same.

I remember about 4 years ago before DK went to Clemson they had won the peach bowl. The money from that win, helped to build new locker rooms for football, dramatic improvements to the athletic center and new locker rooms for baseball. It is probably at a schools expense to go to a bowl game and I know they do get moeny win or lose.

I am pretty sure that the NCAA pays for most of the bill for the NCAA road to Omaha, and for Omaha. So if anyone is wondering where profits go, besides in their pockets, that's it, but no school that I know of profits from baseball post season. Players get gifts from the NCAA for participation.

My sons team had the talk about the 35 man roster and the coach is going to get down to the 35 this year. He wants to give the boys time to figure out alternatives if they are not one of the 35. Can they cut scholarship players before the spring or is the NLI for the entire year or how does that work? The talk was they would keep the scholarship kids and cut the rest but a few of the recruited walkons are better than the scholarship kids, they just had well to do parents.

The new rule goes into effect Aug. 1, 2007. To me that means if one transfers to another D1 after that date you sit out.
Remember you have to ask for and be granted a release before you can speak to another coach.
I hope that coaches deciding to cut down their rosters will give everyone time to prepare.

On a 35 man roster how many pitchers, catchers, infielder, and outfielders would a typical college team have at each position? If I understand correctly it will then be 27 players, how many then?

Only 27 max can be players on any type of athletic scholarship, 35 man roster is the max.

All programs have different needs but you will find rosters usually will have 12-16 pithers. Usually half of the roster is made up of pitchers.

Good question will be, will coaches now recruit more position players that can also help eat up innings and recruit less pure pitchers.

If the new rule goes into affect August 2007, then kids have to sit out if they transfer after 1st semester? My sons coach told the kids this would be the last opportunity not to have to sit out for a year and that is why he is cutting it down to 35 now. Is this incorrect? Many of the boys are scrambling to figure out what other options they have for the spring if they get cut because he is dropping his roster to 35 now.

The date, as I understand it , is August 1,2008.Not 2007.

quote:

Originally posted by 3up-3down:
The date, as I understand it , is August 1,2008.Not 2007.

Correct.

This is a good question for the NCAA. I don't know when transfers have to be completed.

quote:

If the new rule goes into affect August 2007, then kids have to sit out if they transfer after 1st semester? My sons coach told the kids this would be the last opportunity not to have to sit out for a year and that is why he is cutting it down to 35 now. Is this incorrect? Many of the boys are scrambling to figure out what other options they have for the spring if they get cut because he is dropping his roster to 35 now.

The coach has the best interests of the players who are not going to make roster. He is letting them know early so they can transfer and I assume he will give releases wher appropriate.
transferring means a student to find a place to transfer to. Other schools will have most players in place by late fall so it is better to do it now. Most if not all the scholarship money will be in place which makes it hard to transfer.
The new rules do not apply for the 07-08 roster but a lot of coaches are makink changes early.

But can coaches cut scholarship players now, some with books only, because they are getting to that magic number of 35 now? Or is the NLI binding to the coach to keep those kids for the year?

When the new rules kick in in Aug 1 08 I understand that if they cut a guy with BB scholarship they lose a spring Roster spot. out of the 35 allowed.
If you get BB scholarship it would not make sense to cut that player in the 08-09 tryouts. The scholarship money is locked in for the year once BB money is given. now and in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by livingbaseball:
But can coaches cut scholarship players now, some with books only, because they are getting to that magic number of 35 now? Or is the NLI binding to the coach to keep those kids for the year?

A coach can cut a player now to downsize the roster but is still obligated to pay the scholly as per the NLI for this year. Basically the option being offered by coaches to their players that they are cutting is to look for another school now before the sit-out transfer rule takes effect next August.

Worst case scenario is that if a scholarship player is cut now and decide to stay at present school than next summer he would have to sit out a year no matter where he goes to (unless of course JUCO, NAIA, NCAA D2).

quote:

can coaches cut scholarship players now, some with books only, because they are getting to that magic number of 35 now? Or is the NLI binding

NLI IS BINDING

NLI is binding as far as financial dollars are concern but is not a guarantee of a spot on the roster. Player can be cut from roster and still keep his scholly for the one year.

If these big schools gave out minimal schollys, will they let them go over a better non scholly player? Most of the upperclassmen have the larger dollars and the freshmen have the small dollar money. Even if kids leave after 1st semester, will there be any place for them to play? I guess the only good thing would be that they don't have to sit out next year. And I thought just the 08's were the ones with tough choices!

The one aspect of the changes that may prove the most interesting when the rules are in full-effect is the coaches management of their players/roster that are classified as "non-counters".

Living freshmen get big scholarships and if expressed in dollars that is what you will probably get for the 4 years.
You can only go now without sitting if the school gives you a release. the change is that after the new rules the school release doesn't make a difference.

OS that will be interesting and was always what I was concerned about because of the transfer rules changing.

Now that it is clarified that a D1 program will be limited to 27 counters when in full effect, what would warrant a coach to have as little counters as possible, more non-counters, and remain competitive?

What if a coach has 27 counters, only a few seniors, and wants to recruit heavy because he did a poor job in prior recruit classes?

Will we see counter designations changing year-to-year with players ? What if a counter with primary 25% funds coming from exempted academic monies has a couple rough semesters and loses the exemption and the academic money changes classification as countable toward the team equivalency?

If that kid is a player/major contributor, the coach would have to bob'n'weave somehow. If he was role player, he would be shifted in classification?

My intial guess is that until these changes are fully comprehended, you won't see teams worry about carrying the max 35. The coach is gonna need a cushion, or a "reserve for roster contingency".

I would bet 30 overall will be the average size.

Our school is at 29 now and he cut guys in their 3rd year. I assume it was to give them a chance to find another school. He may be adjusting now for various reasons not known to me.

I just read a report by a top college coach who won their conference last season. He said he was having a terrible time getting recruits. I was very surprised by this and they were 39-15 last season. Won their confirence and were ranked very high. he lost a couple to the draft but said he is having a tough time ????

OK, here's another question to ponder as I throw it into the mix. With the mandatory one year sit that has been adopted for transfers, does the player still need to ask for his release if he wants to leave. Or can he just up and transfer without saying anything to the coach?
I'm sure there still has to be some red tape against the player before he can talk to another school but?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I just read a report by a top college coach who won their conference last season. He said he was having a terrible time getting recruits. I was very surprised by this and they were 39-15 last season. Won their confirence and were ranked very high. he lost a couple to the draft but said he is having a tough time ????

Does not make any sense to me.

Coach you never had to get a release before if you were willing to sit a year.

How were your games on the weekend ?

Triple that was why I posted the info. This is a ranked team in a great city and lots of ML prospects. Some great hitters and pitchers. Not sure what to think.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I just read a report by a top college coach who won their conference last season. He said he was having a terrible time getting recruits. I was very surprised by this and they were 39-15 last season. Won their confirence and were ranked very high. he lost a couple to the draft but said he is having a tough time ????

Is he having a tough time because he is looking for the right player and has not been able to find the talent he needs for his program?
Clemson got r*ped by the draft. They expected most to go, but what hit them hard was the many in coming recruits that signed. The senior catcher had one more year left and decided not to go pro. The other catchers waiting didn't want to wait another year for their chance to start and be able to transfer before they couldn't.

The program is at an all time low for roster, but I do believe they will just wait it out for next year rather than take on a player that may not fit the program.

The above statement is correct, in the past, no release you sat. If you have to sit now, why get a release. You would need a release before the rule goes into effect.

TPM I think those are some valid reasons. I just thought they would be swamped with great players wanting to go there.

I know of at least 1 that would be interested!

The reason I wrote my question is that the player transfering would have problems communicating with another school/coach without the release. I understand that you could have left at any time, transfered to another school and sat a year. With the release it gives any other school who may be interested freedom to talk/negotiate. Without the release it is illeagle to communicate (I think).

Just keeping the discussion rolling.

BBHD, the weekend went well. The team went 3-0 and my son was 6-11 on the weekend and was errorless at short. ALl good. Now it's up to Maine this weekend where the Black Bears will play 2 games vs Acadamy of Baseball-Canada, Fri and Sat. New beginnings

TPM, next edition of Collegiate baseball will have a friendly debate on the NCAA rule changes featuring Coach Leggett. It's supposed to be great.

Coach Merc,
Let us know about the article. The last time I read something, Jack wasn't too keen on the scholarship $$ part. I also think he feels the way many other coaches feel, just make tougher penalties for low APR scores.

Baseball America had an article about transfers activity. Some coaches opinions.

What I find interesting is that this was all created to help in the APR, students not on countable scholarship have not, will not, never will be counted in the APR.

So if those students are not part of the "problem", IMO, they should be allowed to transfer?

Coach M I assume that acadamy is the one in Quebec. I have seen them afew times in tournaments last year. They were a decent team.

Along with floridafan, I have a second