.

The elephant returns to the room.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

D3 HA Middlebury returns to distance learning.  The school is 99% vaccinated. The risk of COVID student death is negligible.  On the other hand, the risk that parents won't be willing to send their kids to a NESCAC school like this is quite high.   

Is this just for the end of this semester, finals at home?  I know that's how it starts though.....

Was this due to faculty pressure or just an admin decision? So all these kids get vaccinated to return to school and then get sent home again?

Thru end of semester.  But stuff like this is absolutely a factor when people like me consider colleges for my kids.  When you combine this with the decrease in college age kids over the next decade, the reduction in foreign (full pay) students, upcoming inflation/recession, increased availability of quality online education...  These schools need to watch out because it might hurt on the way down.   (Just trying to spice it up here. We were starting to only get a couple posts per day for awhile. Lol)

Where's Franny

https://www.middleburycampus.c...2021/12/covid-update

Found the article. 

Tbpt.  Who knows.  Im sure more info will come out when parents balk.  Not to wade too far into vaccines but clearly they do not immunize in the classic sense but rather just mitigate the infection to prevent serious illness. They do not alter carrier status or transmission.  When we accept that as THE reality, we should move on as a society and not do s#@& like this.

"son.  Its a really pretty campus with a lot of smart kids. Yes... You might only play 3 games this season but thats almost as much as they played in the previous 2 seasons".  🍿

During recruiting years ago my oldest son visited - my wife notes to me that it's really good that he slept most of the way there because if he'd been awake she never would have got him out of the car due to how "remote" it was - kind of a definition of middle of nowhere.  Beautiful campus, smart people, etc.  Without "piling on" - makes me wonder at times how smart people play follow the "leader" too quickly... <shrug>

Complete lack of leadership there. Hopefully other schools use common sense rather than following them

One Friday of classes online is not exactly "moves back to online instruction".  It would be interesting to see if any faculty complain about online exams.  They are "encouraging" students to leave before exams, but my guess is that with a national student body, many have plane tickets and won't be able to leave before that.  They say they expect to be back in the spring.  So, I'd say, not much to see here.

What does this have to do with baseball?  The only thing I noticed was that Middlebury was not testing all students weekly, but they were testing in-season athletes.

What is the purpose of sending them back to online classes for one Friday and online exams?

@anotherparent posted

So, I'd say, not much to see here.

What does this have to do with baseball? 

middlebury was 1-3 in 2020 and 2-6 in 2021... With no conference games played in either 2 years.  My 2025 played more games in 3 weeks of summer ball.  Now they just cancelled the semester.  Id say the baseball players at the school likely think this has some relevance to baseball.  When do you think theyll get back to normal?  What will satisfy them?  1 more percentage piint of vaccination?  Everyone getting another booster?  It is complete lunacy.

I don't disagree about the cancelled seasons; it's entirely legit to factor that into a baseball recruiting decision.  If they start cancelling spring sports seasons again, that would be news.  If they tell spring athletes not to come back early for pre-semester practices, that would be news.

But, right now they have cancelled ONE DAY of classes - the last Friday of the semester.  And they have said that exams have to be online - I wonder how many classes at a small school like this have in-class exams at all?  The point is presumably to keep people who might be contagious from gathering in groups for long periods of time; personally, if vaccinated and masked, I don't see the point.  But, there are bigger things to look at than this.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

Tbpt.  Who knows.  Im sure more info will come out when parents balk.  Not to wade too far into vaccines but clearly they do not immunize in the classic sense but rather just mitigate the infection to prevent serious illness. They do not alter carrier status or transmission.  When we accept that as THE reality, we should move on as a society and not do s#@& like this.

I am currently recovering from a pretty bad case of Covid. And yes, I was fully vaccinated. Back in April I believed that was the responsible thing to do. During the course of dealing with this virus I have learned a lot. I pretty much have the playbook of what to do (and not do) if anyone ever needs it. In my case the Pfizer vaccine didn’t provide me with much (if any) protection. That fact was determined by measuring the amount of antibodies that were in my bloodstream before I contracted the virus. Now that I have somewhat recovered (and tested negative after 14 days) my antibody count is very high - achieved thru natural immunity. But even a high antibody count in my bloodstream will not prevent an airborne particle from entering my airways. So I’m as likely to contract the disease again as anyone else - regardless of vaccination status. As a result of my experience I now have different beliefs based on the FACTS of how I have personally been affected. It’s high time for all the “follow the science” proponents to do exactly that.

adbono.  Im sry you were so sick.  I know the playbook. There is a reason why the death rates in the US are higher than almost every other country in the world. Including third world countries with single digit vaccination rates. Fauci has some splaining to do.   So many other countries used hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, zinc, zthromax or doxy EARLY in the course.  You know what they call Fauci's Remdesavir in the icu?  "Rundeathisnear".  Why?  Because it doesnt work.... Except to increase big pharmas profits.  Ask yourselves, why did cdc and niadh lock up all the hcq and ivm and engage a media war when country after country was reporting success?  History will judge so many people as evil. 

@smokeminside posted:

The elephant returns to the room.

And it needs to. People need to hear about real life examples of what’s happening.

My wife developed a neuropathy 1 week after her first mRNA vaccine.  Took her 5 months to recover.  And a couple bucks in tests and specialists. Bless her heart, she wanted to get the second dose regardless.  I wouldnt let her.   Ive met 3 other women with a similar facial neuropathy after mRNA vaccines.  And we're going to vaccinate 2 year olds?   I didnt report it to VAERS because im afraid of being of our current govt.  Lets stop being sheep and stand up. 

A couple *thousand* bucks

@smokeminside posted:

The elephant returns to the room.

@JohnF posted:

During recruiting years ago my oldest son visited - my wife notes to me that it's really good that he slept most of the way there because if he'd been awake she never would have got him out of the car due to how "remote" it was - kind of a definition of middle of nowhere.  Beautiful campus, smart people, etc.  Without "piling on" - makes me wonder at times how smart people play follow the "leader" too quickly... <shrug>

Just by being in the neighborhood and checking out baseball fields my son got turned off to a couple of schools. My son looked at Bowdoin’s field and commented, “Our high school field is a thousand times nicer,” Then at Boston College he was appalled football tailgate parties (parked cars) were held in the outfield. He commented, “The athletic department doesn’t respect the program.”

I think it was his way of saying no way he was playing in that weather. I was shocked as a major city, suburban kid he chose a college in the cornfields  220 miles from a top twenty population city.

@anotherparent wrote “But there are bigger things to look at than this.”

There certainly are. Starting with the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.

(tiptoeing into Covid conversation attempting to keep grenades out of the room)

I’m starting to believe these vaccinations don’t work other than to maybe prevent serious Covid. But how do we know if someone would have had more serious Covid than they got? On a personal level the only person I know who got Covid is twenty-five. She was fine in a week.

My daughter and her husband are/were considered first responders (she recently changed jobs). They know plenty of people who got Covid. None of them were serious whether vaccinated or not. Most of the people they work with are under fifty.

I don’t know or am connected to anyone who k ons if anyone who died from Covid. This isn’t a denial people have died. I’ll refrain from my next comment which might be pulling the pin on the grenade. I’ll just say despite getting vaccinated I’m getting very skeptical about the vaccine.

I just got off the paddle courts (the second-best sport behind baseball) and played with a Dad with a Middlebury senior daughter (volleyball player) and they really are only being sent home two days early.  All the athletes party together and they are the ones that passed it around apparently...

Following on Adbono about his Pfizer experience.  My daughter is Moderna and she got a breakthrough case.  Her entire suite caught it and the other girls were all Pfizer.   She lost taste and smell but outside of that it was relatively minor.   I do think the vaccines help with the severity of the illness.  Me personally, I got a booster, my son has to get a booster to return to college, my daughter does not and we would have an issue if they wouldn't consider her additional natural immunity.   I really believe two things - natural immunity from having the virus needs to be STRONGLY considered in our policies and vaccinations should be a personal choice (my wife disagrees with the later). 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I just got off the paddle courts (the second-best sport behind baseball) and played with a Dad with a Middlebury senior daughter (volleyball player) and they really are only being sent home two days early.  All the athletes party together and they are the ones that passed it around apparently...

Following on Adbono about his Pfizer experience.  My daughter is Moderna and she got a breakthrough case.  Her entire suite caught it and the other girls were all Pfizer.   She lost taste and smell but outside of that it was relatively minor.   I do think the vaccines help with the severity of the illness.  Me personally, I got a booster, my son has to get a booster to return to college, my daughter does not and we would have an issue if they wouldn't consider her additional natural immunity.   I really believe two things - natural immunity from having the virus needs to be STRONGLY considered in our policies and vaccinations should be a personal choice (my wife disagrees with the later).

The loudest voices are the “mandate vaccines” and “anti vaxxers.” I’m a right leaning libertarian.** I believe it’s each person’s choice. Especially since getting vaccinated doesn’t mean another person won’t get Covid or won’t transmit Covid.

** I believe in unicorns/small government

@RJM posted:

The loudest voices are the “mandate vaccines” and “anti vaxxers.” I’m a right leaning libertarian.** I believe it’s each person’s choice. Especially since getting vaccinated doesn’t mean another person won’t get Covid or won’t transmit Covid.

** I believe in unicorns/small government

It’s absolutely a personal choice. But it’s a choice that should be made after receiving honest, accurate, and complete information. Evidence is mounting that indicates that has not been the case.

I'm 51. Pfizer vaccinated. Diagnosed with covid October 2nd.  Did Regeneron same night felt good 2 days later for a week.  Violently ill again diagnosed covid positive approximately October 25th. Tested negative about 10 days later.  Diagnosed with acute sinusitis with migraines the past month or longer.  Have been on numerous steroids (dexamethasone worked best) and antibiotics for this entire time. My steroid is running out and can feel faint migraines again.  I've never had migraines in my life.  I dont know what to think of any of this anymore.  Son has chosen not to be vaccinated as has wife and I'm not arguing with them....plus...knock on wood neither of them have tested positive despite frequent testing

@adbono posted:

It’s absolutely a personal choice. But it’s a choice that should be made after receiving honest, accurate, and complete information. Evidence is mounting that indicates that has not been the case.

What I believe happened is there wasn’t honesty about how much the experts were guessing from the start. The mantra has been “follow the science.” But it didn’t happen. It turned into “follow the politics.” Science evolves. But the leaders with the voices didn’t roll with the evolution. Plus they were close minded to any alternatives to their mantra.

Only .002% (2/10th of 1%) have died from Covid. There wasn’t a lot of openness on who they were. We were fear mongered instead.

Before the end of openness the paper in Portland ME was providing details. Up until the point they stopped providing details every death was an elderly person or a person with co-morbidities. Only one person under fifty had died. This was in the first 500 of 1350 (current number) deaths before they shut down information. In Boston the paper stopped providing details early in the game.

Whether we get vaccinated or not we can contract or transmit Covid. This should end any thought of mandates.  We don’t even know if the vaccine works. How do we know being vaccinated means a less severe case of Covid? Many people may just be more resistant to severe Covid.

I got vaccinated for international travel. Being vaccinated makes it less of a hassle. I might have thought twice if not for anticipated trips. A cousin, a PharmD and drug researcher at one of the top heart hospitals in the world told me if issues crop up with vaccines it’s always in the first two, three months. I tuned out another cousin, an immunologist who signed a national petition of immunologists requesting lockdown and vaccine mandates from the beginning.

If I was obese and not healthy I wouldn’t have thought twice about getting vaccinated. Based on what we were told it wouldn’t have been worthy the risk. At 66, very fit and healthy 6’1 175 (ten pounds less than college ball) I don’t even think about getting Covid.

Shall we get into masking? 😁

Wow RJM,

Seems to me lots of misinformation.

But to share a personal experience:

  On March 12, 2020 I was interacting with a person who was incredibly fit-did the 2019 Ironman in Hawaii. We talked for 10-15 minutes

One week later he was in intensive care. He then spent 100 days in ICU in a coma and on a ventilator.

Tom survived but he will never work again. As opposed to an Ironman, he is now lucky to walk a mile- with walking assistance

Does not even consider the emotional impact!

Think about getting it

Think more about not getting it and doing 1000% in making sure no one else is infected

@infielddad posted:

Wow RJM,

Seems to me lots of misinformation.

But to share a personal experience:

  On March 12, 2020 I was interacting with a person who was incredibly fit-did the 2019 Ironman in Hawaii. We talked for 10-15 minutes

One week later he was in intensive care. He then spent 100 days in ICU in a coma and on a ventilator.

Tom survived but he will never work again. As opposed to an Ironman, he is now lucky to walk a mile- with walking assistance

Does not even consider the emotional impact!

Think about getting it

Think more about not getting it and doing 1000% in making sure no one else is infected

There is ZERO misinformation in my post. It’s 100% observation of what I’ve seen. There’s no doubt our leaders have played follow the politics. COVID HAS BECOME VERY POLITICAL. Fauci HAS NOT been honest. He was telling people don’t wear a mask, then wear a mask. He tried to control holidays. He LIED about being associated with funding gain of function. He seems to like his celebrity. Posing poolside like a rock star for a non medical magazine BLEW HIS CREDIBILITY with me and many other people. Do the MATH on my percentage. It’s just the approximate death count divided by the population. That the local papers stopped giving the ages and health of people dying in my area is FACT.

Getting vaccinated HAS NOT stopped contracting or transmitting Covid. How do we know the vaccine works? I asked a question. I didn’t state it doesn’t work. I BELIEVE it’s a legitimate question given it hasn’t stopped Covid. I HAVE a cousin who is a PharmD and does  pharmaceutical research. I posted what he TOLD me which I’ve searched and seen other places online. Obese people ARE more susceptible to Covid. SO JUST WHAT IN MY POST IS MISINFORMATION? Don’t make an accusatory post and walk away without backing up your statement. Or apologize.

The misinformation has been horrible. Then you have people doubling down to avoid admitting they were wrong.

I don’t care if you get the vax or not, but to force kids to get it to return to school and then send them home early is BS to me.

The beauty of relating personal accounts is that it eliminates the “disinformation” narrative. For years many of us on this board have shared very personal stories about ourselves and our families. Stories of triumph and heartbreak and everything in between. In the process of doing that a level of trust has been built among the members. At least it has for me.  I don’t doubt personal info posted on here by a trusted member and I don’t know why anyone else would either -  unless you want to push a political narrative. The reality is that we have all been lied to - by Fauci, our government, the WHO, the CDC, big pharma, big tech, the media……. the list is endless. Comparing real life experiences is the best way to expose the truth about  what’s really happening.

50% of big D1 baseball players don't make it to junior year at their original school.  Everyone who goes in thinks it won't be them.  We don't get the 50% number from personal anecdote, even though there are plenty of anecdotes on this site.  Where do we get it?  It's called large-scale data.

I'm glad that you who have recently had covid have recovered.

Of course there will always be some that will continue to push an agenda in spite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary. But the rest of us can continue to share our truths in hopes that someone will be helped by doing so.

I got vaccinated and I’m questioning the results of vaccination. I’m wondering how much it helps people who aren’t elderly or have co-morbitities. I’m wondering if it actually is preventing generally healthy people from getting a worse case of Covid. Based on how poorly the messaging has been handled by the government we should be asking questions. Why is Pfizer trying to protect having to disclose extensive vaccine data for 55 years?

I’m not trying to be political. I’m not anti vax. I’m not concerned I’ve poisoned my body. I’m questioning the effectiveness of the vaccines. Aren’t we sheep if we just obey and don’t ask questions?

@RJM posted:

I got vaccinated and I’m questioning the results of vaccination. I’m wondering how much it helps people who aren’t elderly or have co-morbitities. I’m wondering if it actually is preventing generally healthy people from getting a worse case of Covid. Based on how poorly the messaging has been handled by the government we should be asking questions. Why is Pfizer trying to protect having to disclose extensive vaccine data for 55 years?

Im not trying to be political. I’m not anti vax. But aren’t we sheep if we don’t ask questions?

Exactly!  These are the questions everyone should be asking. Along with many other questions about Fauci’s engineering of the virus in order to make it more transmissible to human beings.

@adbono posted:

The beauty of relating personal accounts is that it eliminates the “disinformation” narrative. For years many of us on this board have shared very personal stories about ourselves and our families. Stories of triumph and heartbreak and everything in between. In the process of doing that a level of trust has been built among the members. At least it has for me.  I don’t doubt personal info posted on here by a trusted member and I don’t know why anyone else would either -  unless you want to push a political narrative. The reality is that we have all been lied to - by Fauci, our government, the WHO, the CDC, big pharma, big tech, the media……. the list is endless. Comparing real life experiences is the best way to expose the truth about  what’s really happening.

In real life info people get sick and die every day from day 1 and till forever, nobody ever dreamed of stopping the world and living like exiles out of fear of a death rate that is way under 1% even with all the crazy inflated math to count the deaths. More people will die from the cure then then the virus if honest math is used.

That being said i am getting a booster today because to me it makes sense...and then i am going to continue living.

People, everyone on both sides, need to get the hell out of other peoples lives. Take your science, your opinions, your personal experiences and do what you want with them but leave me and everyone else alone.

@old_school posted:

In real life info people get sick and die every day from day 1 and till forever, nobody ever dreamed of stopping the world and living like exiles out of fear of a death rate that is way under 1% even with all the crazy inflated math to count the deaths. More people will die from the cure then then the virus if honest math is used.

That being said i am getting a booster today because to me it makes sense...and then i am going to continue living.

People, everyone on both sides, need to get the hell out of other peoples lives. Take your science, your opinions, your personal experiences and do what you want with them but leave me and everyone else alone.

If you don’t like what I have to say don’t read it.

@infielddad posted:

Wow RJM,

Seems to me lots of misinformation.

But to share a personal experience:

  On March 12, 2020 I was interacting with a person who was incredibly fit-did the 2019 Ironman in Hawaii. We talked for 10-15 minutes

One week later he was in intensive care. He then spent 100 days in ICU in a coma and on a ventilator.

Tom survived but he will never work again. As opposed to an Ironman, he is now lucky to walk a mile- with walking assistance

Does not even consider the emotional impact!

Think about getting it

Think more about not getting it and doing 1000% in making sure no one else is infected

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree with the idea that RJM or anyone thus far has spread "misinformation".  That term is kind of a loose blanket deflection isn't it?  Who gets to determine what is misinformation?  The ministry of truth?  There are anecdotes here but they have value also.  Any stats he presented are actually spot on.

I happen to be a physician.  I'm fully vaccinated and boostered, in large part because I'm in my 50's and have well... a large dad belly.  But also I have to be vaccinated or I will lose my job. And I can't do that, I have a family to feed (and hundreds of thousands of dollars of baseball and college to pay for).  During 2020, before vaccines, I went to work everyday scared out of my mind.  The idea that we are now firing frontline workers who object to vaccination when well over a third of them will have natural immunity from past exposure is completely nuts.  What?  The crisis is not improving but we don't need them now?  They're expendable?  Doesn't it strike you as a bit weird that there is not a mass program to see who has antibodies and natural immunity?  That is contrary to everything I've ever learned in my career about risk/benefit.  To force someone to get vaccinated, with a minimal experience product which pharma is completely indemnified for, and risk an adverse reaction, however small, when they are actually immune is unethical.   

I'm curious about the guy you talked to for 10-15 minutes.  What was the age of Tom and what underlying medical conditions did he have.  I know many people who have died of COVID.  Almost all of them were older.  A couple of them in their 40's.  While they appeared healthy and fit, they both had diabetes and a couple other comorbidities.

And I disagree with your last sentence.  My wife getting her 2nd vaccine dose is not going to prevent, and has little to do with, someone else from getting infected.   The 50 breakthrough cases at Middlebury of vaccinated students is a prime example.   I'm sorry if you consider this opinion as misinformation.