A bit of CONTROVERSY for Parents

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I resemble that observer....

44

Parent claims--The video tells all
Son--Great athlete but gets a 6 on the Wonderlic
Casual Observer--A QB needs a good head on his shoulders.
Agent--He's a Big Game Player
Truth--Dan Marino bombed the idiot test, too.

Nice PG

In politcal terms they call it "SPIN". Spinning the facts as they suit your position or circumstance. Partially true but conveniently leaving out the other half of the facts.

That Casual guy seems pretty smart doesn't he. Whoops! That Casual gal seems pretty smart doesn't she.

PGStaff,
Controversial but true! I’m sure you could write a book on parents you have met at your events. Don't write it! Luckily you were (and are) a parent of a player so you know how their thought process works and you know they cannot be blamed for their feelings.... It comes with parenting. Thank goodness there will NEVER be a final solution to this parental “problem”. If parents were totally objective about their son’s talent many boys would be cut from their father’s team? Parents would say: “Why don’t you go play a video game, you’ll never be a baseball player!” Dads and Moms wouldn’t spend years with their sons and daughters trying to help them become a professional athlete. This is an important time of their lives. It's a bonding process and provides memories for a lifetime. While I’m a big proponent of the showcase circuit, I know showcases rely on this parental bias and obsession of promoting their sons. As a parent I have often wondered where I fit in the masses of parents wearing rose colored glasses. I know I have them I just wonder how thick they are.
Good topic!
Fungo

quote:

As a parent I have often wondered where I fit in the masses of parents wearing rose colored glasses.

We're still here, Fungo.

No attack here PG. I think you're right on! I've worn rose colored glasses as Fungo says - I'm sure I have some on now.

When you think about it though - would many of our kids have made it as far as they did without the support that came from us? The support in the form of finances, time, effort, and emotional rah rahs!! Much of that support came because we believed our sons could do it! Isn't it nice to have someone that believes in you no matter what! Isn't it nice to have someone to believe in no matter what!

This site is about high school players and I think the spin helps keep young players from being to discouraged.
When reading some of our posts it could be very easy for a young player to get a false impression of what his skill level should be in high school. How many really throw 90+ run 6.8,and have sub 2 pop times in high school?
You dont need to be a five tool player to play at the next level,there are many levels. The spin encourages a kid that there is a level for the crafty pitcher, heads up runner, and the catcher who can block.

PG.
Yes I would like to read that Book.
Just give me a few Years, I'm still in the process with my Child.
As a parent and a protecture of the meek.
We just can't help are self's.
The sooner the parent can cut the strings the Better.
Lucky for me, my son cut them for me.
He put's me in my place, and i,m happy to be there. The EH

NIce post Lafmom

PG Staff, I know you usually deal with parents of high school age players. But does the subjectivity of the parents increase or decrease with age? Is it in inverse proportion to the players talent?

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
As a parent I have often wondered where I fit in the masses of parents wearing rose colored glasses. I know I have them I just wonder how thick they are.
Good topic!
Fungo

Fungo, the first step to recovery is acknowledging that you own rose colored glasses.

The good news is, unlike my reading glasses which get thicker every year, the rose colored ones seem to get thinner each year.

Missouri-BB-Dad is right...it is spin.

PGStaff, I don't think you are being controversal at all...spin is essential to raising kids. You can't crush their self esteem and sometimes you can't directly answer them when they ask about their abilities. So you highlight what they are truly good at and you spin the other parts.

Of course, I don't need to use spin since my son is a true 5 tool guy...Oh, wait, sorry...I was wearing my old rose colored glasses (with the really thick lenses).

Mike F

Rose colored glasses?

Not me, my son is 10ft tall in my eyes!!!!

My rosies are fogin up here. I thought for a moment that I had things figured out, then along comes another eye-watering burst of bright light. PG, I don't blame you at all for sounding a bit jaded. It's only human to want to kick the jukebox when it keeps playing the same dang song over and over.
I gotta ask one thing here, and pardon me if I quote Socrates, but if the unexamined life is not worth living, then shouldn't all baseball parents have Stalkers?

Does Socrates have an english translation?

Mike F: Excellent post.

PG Staff: If you're sounding a little bit jaded, you are justified. Parents today are different. We expect more. We demand more. Nothing is EVER our fault, or our children's fault--there is always someone to blame... or at least an excuse...

I see it too, and sadly, I don't think things are going to get better any time soon. That is, I don't think we are going to take or accept responsibility any time soon. In fact, with my experiences and observations with the parents of younger children, it is getting worse.....

Great posts....and Lafmom....couldn't agree more.....

Think that high school ball is the most difficult......as are the parents.....but it does just progress.....from Little League on....the only consolation is that come senior year......going on to the next level of college ball.....rose colored glasses don't help anymore....not that they ever did....

Guess the point in bringing this up was to get people to think and hopefully be reasonable. I’ve heard plenty of parents describe their son as a smart base runner, good contact hitter, crafty pitcher with good control, etc. etc.

These are all very good important traits. In fact, when we see these type players they (contrary to popular belief) standout like a sore thumb! I think it’s great if parents feel that way about their sons.

One of my older sons had 3 maybe 4 tools, but I always thought his best attributes were other things. Also thought his biggest weaknesses were other things. There’s a lot that goes into being an outstanding player.

All outstanding players aren’t necessarily outstanding prospects for the highest levels. Nearly everyone (probably everyone) has some weaknesses. Often, if the weaknesses involve all the tools, the final level may have to be adjusted accordingly.

It’s not the way I want it… It’s just the way it is! However, every once in awhile someone breaks all the rules and accomplishes his goals in spite of what people thought. I greatly admire and respect those who accomplish that. Sometimes players simply improve their tools and this should always be the goal.

The thing that I can’t understand, are people who actually convince themselves into thinking that so and so runs a 6.4 60 but my 7.8 60 runner who is a smart base runner is faster on the bases. (It’s possible I guess, but so what) Or, so and so 17 year old is throwing 94 mph, but my guy who throws 78 had a better record last year so why isn’t he considered a better pitching prospect. (guess it’s possible, but why use that comparison)

Point is, instead of just using the rose colored glasses to possibly benefit their son (the “Spin” that Missouri-BB-Dad mentions) and it makes sense… They have BLINDERS on when it comes to the rest of the world.

Bottom line is that no one really makes the "final" decision on there own sons baseball future, if they did we would have millions of Major Leaguers. Unfortunately, it’s always in the hands of others. Right or wrong, that’s the way it is!

Fungo,

Not proud of it, and sure you’ve heard it before regarding my youngest son. I WAS that father that cut his own son! Everything turned out OK; it only took him a few years to prove how stupid I was. How was I supposed to know he was the only one trying out for that team who would play in the Major Leagues?

Nothing wrong with wearing them Rose Colored Glasses, but please (not meant for anyone particular)… take off the BLINDERS when it comes to exceptionally talented others!

quote:

Not proud of it, and sure you’ve heard it before regarding my youngest son. I WAS that father that cut his own son! Everything turned out OK; it only took him a few years to prove

This is sometimes the best motivator in the world to create a paradigm shift in focus of "willingness to pay the price".

This can be a much better option than keeping those blinders on in the long-run and outcome in finished product of a "work in progress".

It's always sweetest when one is motivated by another to overcome preconceived notions and judgements.

Excellent Boss USA/Iowa !

My2Cents,
Shep

I have always taken the tact that the scientific method fails badly in measuring human accomplishment.

In gauging potential of future success in the sport, the five tools or scientific method are the standard.

I taught my sons that these are the goals to strive for. Work on speed and bat control and always catch it before you throw it.

Being the best of the group is not always good enough when the group gets better. I taught them that they had to excell or they were just average ball players. They had to give 110 % and maybe more when the situation called for it.

They were on championship teams at every level.

They had no interest for the baseball lifestyle of living on the road and getting paid little money with no promise of a future in the game.

They opted out of the running but have no regrets.

They still feel that they were good enough to play pro ball if they chose to.

I like this situation better than seeing them travel the buses.

very good observation by PG, but hardly controversial, and it's not surprising that conditioned human nature is also present in the prospect eval process

I (we) see it every day, all day ... "promotion"

beginning with morning cofee someone on TV, radio, in print, or "in person" is trying to promote something I NEED - - attributes are exagerated, and any shortcomings are "insignificant" and should be overlooked


I say to Mom & Dad ... keep hammering your sales job home, IT WORKS!

in a recent BA prospect scouting report (1 paragraph), half the paragraph noted how helpful & forthcoming the prospect's Mom had been to THE AUTHOR over the years, providing personal info, schedules, health, etc. (it got me wondering about that "ect.")

I felt BA owed me a refund for publishing stuff like that, but again


there's your proof it works!
just don't take it to the level that our "polititans" have!

PG, that's true except for my kid.

PG writes

quote:

One of my older sons had 3 maybe 4 tools, but I always thought his best attributes were other things. Also thought his biggest weaknesses were other things. There’s a lot that goes into being an outstanding player.

thank you I think

parents can feel better knowing you "missed"(?) on your own son's eval

some really good replys.i think we have all been the PARENT from hell at one time or another.we catch it and can it eventually.the thing i see in my opinion, most often we have the dream.the varsity as a freshman dream,the big d1 school dream.the truth is the kids know the reality of those dreams.the pecking order is a very real thing and they know where they sit.usually the first showcase helps them with it.most of us see this on smaller scales.i don't know how pg does it with hundreds at a time.
i don't think parents are wrong or being anything more than parents that want the most for their kids.that doesn't make us bad people.but they have to want it more than us.baseball has so many life lessons that kids don't even understand most of the time but they are there.

quote:

I say to Mom & Dad ... keep hammering your sales job home, IT WORKS!

Ah Ha! Herein lies the problem. That's not always true. It ONLY WORKS if the player is talented and if the coach sees him and needs him!

very true fungo ... but, I'm not suggesting a silk purse can be made from a sow's ear

however, if you have bucket of silk purses to sell, the purse on top of the pile that is being displayed/promoted will receive the attention from buyers

(tho my sister in-law would dump the bucket, scatter the purses, still take the top one, but insist on a discount because it was the display model & had been handled)

Originally posted by PGStaff:
_____________________________________________
Nothing wrong with wearing them Rose Colored Glasses, but please (not meant for anyone particular)… take off the BLINDERS when it comes to exceptionally talented others!
_____________________________________________

PG - Very valid point! Being a cheerleader to your own son isn't nearly as effective or enjoyable when jealousy or resentment of his friends, acquaintances, or teammates enters that picture. Celebrating and sharing in other's joys will bring much more happiness to your son and yourself - of that I have no doubt!

This is a great three...PG: you are too nice a guy to be considered too controversial.

I say, it would be a very sad state of being if your own Mom and Dad DIDN'T see the very best in you, totally believe in you and thereby express that to others!
I personally find it more offensive to be around some parents of "4-5-tool" players who look down their noses at those who have yet to "come into their own".
Don't hear it in college much, but heard it all the time in the stands, high school years.
Best advice...just ignore it, to quote my son.."the game has a way of evening things out"

Many of us have been on both sides of this and some parents gave me daily lessons on how not to behave about my kids.
Then as soon as those pesky parents left my sight, I would put back on my rose colored glasses.

PG, you have a PM

PG

Great post and when can you start that book

Call it-- "Looking Thru Rose Colored Glasses for Dummies"

I wonder who the great players thank most for their success ? I believe it is Mom and Dad. Take Tiger, Williams sisters and all the other great athletes and it is their parents. Some were fanatical driving them on to greatness. Some kids have potential and others don't no matter how hard they work but without thye parents many would have never achieved the level of success they do achieve.
Playing a sport is a constant self eveluation. Parents suppoert their kids if they want to strive to higher levels. Yes some parents can be off base in their efforts but atleast they support their childeren as long as they are not forcing them. Even forcing them is sometimes necessary because some kids want to quit things that they ultimately suucceed at.
I have always stayed out of my childrens affairs mostly because I have never had to interfere. I would never coach them or discuss his lack of playing time etc with a coach. My son would kill me if I ever said anything to a coach.
Do I think my kids are wonderfull ? Absolutely. Nothing to do with baseball. If my son quit tomorrow I would be devastated but my feelings would not change one bit.

If the rose colored glasses weren't so important, parents would have done away with them long ago. In order to help motivate a son (who is after all a human being, too) through high school baseball, I think you have to be a little glazed over in the vision department. If a parent took every single falter and bobble in their kid, we wouldn't be here. However, it is hard to admit your child is a human being sometimes. It makes them vulnerable to all the stuff we, as parents, work desperately to stave off for our children: failure, heartbreak, loss, etc...

1. PG,
Good post, you are right.

2. Had a friend who started playing ball at 13yo. Hit .108 that year. Got to play shortstop for the the first time in the last game of the season when it didn't matter. He didn't have the arm to play short. He broke his nose on the catcher's first throw to second. He never got very big. He was never that fast.

He was however a 2nd round pick as a shortstop after 1 year of JC. He was released by the Twins and went to Benny Lefebvre for hitting help and caught on with the Astros and made it as far as AAA and spring training with the big club.

3. Don't worry about what parents, coaches or anyone else has to say. They all make mistakes and have biases, (even CADad) . Some of them were contact hitters who don't care for power hitters and vice versa. Just keep playing as long and as hard as you can and the game will tell you when to stop.

PG

I remember seeing the blinders a few times over the years, and yes, they are quite different than rose colored glasses.

Like the parent who thinks their son is on an even level with another boy because they both hit 78 on the radar gun that day.

The facts: yep they did
It was their sons fastball
It was the other boys curve ball (and later that inning he hit 92 with his fastball)

Both boys are equal hitters, after all they went 2 for 3 that day

The facts: yep they did
Their son just barely made it safely to first after two little hopping bloopers.
The other boy hit two screaming balls out to the middle infielder.

Or the parent that feels they have proof their son is a better pithcer - his ERA is .120 and the other boys is .210.

The facts: yep they have those ERA's correct
Their son is on the freshman team pitching to freshman hitters
The other boy is a sophmore on the varsity pitching to varsity hitters.

There is nothing wrong with thinking your son can walk on water - but it doesn't count if it's frozen.

PG,
Good post!

I strongly beleive that a parent should do whatever they can, within their means to help their son move to the next level (in anything) Never give up, never discourage. Be positive. What they do is their business.
What bothers me is when those parents start to take away from the other players on the team. Try to buy for playing time, give the coach a hard time because son hasn't pitched enough, batted enough, change schools 2,3 times in HS (always coaches fault or the team wasn't good enough). Told their player he was better than anyone else, he was the star, not teach to be a team player. Demands to be scorekeeper. Tells the parents on the team their player was better than anyone else. Gets "hundreds" of letters, same with phone calls.
Maybe that player IS a bit better than all of the others at that particular age, he is very physicaly mature. As a youjg player, he can hit the c**p out of the ball, he can throw the heat. He is just an amazing young player.

Then all of a sudden he is 17, 18 can't throw anymore, can't hit as well facing more mature pitchers. For years these parents have told the other players parents son would be a high round draft choice (not drafted), would get into the BEST D1 (small D1 and a redshirt).

At that point (later in HS) is where the reality of years of listening to parent claims, being a casual observer, gives way to the truth.

It's not always the parents who go around sporting their RCG's either. I've met plenty of players who wore them as well, but it's often hard to tell (with players) if the kid is delusional OR just being that rubber-tree ant.

I'd say Bode Miller was wearing RCG in Turin. Or maybe they were, as school DARE officers call them, "beer goggles".

My rosie shades have been great protection from the sun over the years, but its the muzzle that's kept me out of trouble. My son has rules for my husband and I. We can talk to other parents about the weather, vacation plans, work, the team or individual players in very general terms - nothing negative and nothing that could be construed as "blowing smoke". We are also allowed to talk to coaches. We can say "Hi" or "Great day for a game" or "Good game, Coach" depending on the situation. That's it. No shmoozing and no bragging.

When he first mentioned the subject to us, or more specifically me - I was a single mother at the time - he didn't want me acting like "those other parents" because he felt that bragging, bad mouthing other players and shmoozing coaches was wrong. As he got older, he became even more adamant about his rules because he feels VERY strongly that its his responsibility to prove what he can do - that his actions should do the talking for him - and for us. A couple of weeks ago he tried out for a really good New England based program. He knew from looking at the organization's website that his former AAU coach would probably know some of the coaches in the club and sent him an email to get his thoughts. His coach told him he knew a number of the coaches in question from his playing days, thought it looked like a good fit for my son, and offered to assist with phone calls or a letter of reference. My son said thanks, with an organization of that magnitude a reference couldn't hurt, but "we both know that making the team is up to me."

Happy to say those rules have probably kept me out of a lot of trouble. Wish other parents had to live by the same rules.

quote:

that his actions should do the talking for him - and for us

Excellent post, KmomNH.

All of it is, but I especially like the part in the quote.

great post kmom,looks like you did a nice job with your son.good luck to him this season.

I would say KMom is the bomb, (as my kids tell me all the time)