Advice Needed

You'll get better advice from other people. Here is my $.02

Tell your son to throw strikes & hit his spots. He can't play all 9 defensive positions. Compete and get prepared for this summer, the most important summer of the recruiting timeline.

As the parent you must monitor his health. (I'm not a pitcher's parent.) Count pitches, ice arm, make sure he's not overused or abused on the mound. All the things pitcher parents do.

I think your response so far has been appropriate. Don't draw attention to yourself. It is not about you - but you already know this.

Best of luck to your son.

BBMom34, I can tell you from experience (basketball) that not all HS coaches are there to help all players equally. Son's coach always has his favorite/favorites on team, runs his offense based on the individual star, rather than to encourage a team offense. Needless to say, our school rarely makes it to state and if they do, they go quickly. Coach is clueless.

The problem I see here is even though coach was negative about your son, turning and walking away only made him angrier. I think a straight on "lets set this record straight coach", reminding him of his duties to "encourage" his players, not critizing them in front of his parents works better for motivating a player. IMO he had no business threatening your son's status. The problem with HS is no one going to defend your son, only you. But from all the experience from the HSBBW folks the key here is your son has to work it out with the coach to the best of his ability. I hope your son can resolve this situation, do keep us informed of his progress. My best to you and your son.

#1 Mom/Dad, be a duck and let the comments roll off your back.

#2 Time for son to suck it up. If he has the tools he will play, criticism is part of the game and everyone has a different way of expressing themselves. He's the coach

#3 Baseball is not only things that happen between the lines but is made up of the events and personalities that occur when the game is not played. Situations like these develop "intestinal fortitude" and that is a life lesson that your son should experience without the input of Mom or Dad. Let things roll for now. I agree with teaching kids to "speak up" but sometimes you have to learn when to talk and when to roll with the punches.

#4 You don't leave a team early unless you're on the way to a doc.

JMHO

quote:

Just tough it out and let the coach be a jerk or walk away and just get ready for summer ball?

The only thing he can do is tough it out and play his best. If your son is a college prospect you'll be surprised how quickly the word will spread regarding how much character he has dealing with a difficult situation. People notice when coaches are jerks.

If the threats continue it may be worth taking up with the AD, principal or board. However, if you escalate the situation your son will pay a price. The coach will have his own side to the story no matter have contrived it may be.

For whatever reason, maybe the coach sees upperclassmen as a threat to his authority. By promoting younger players he's molding them to follow him. It's a classic case of insecurity.

There are some facts I don't have to proceed but here goes anyway. Your son started as a freshman. Was he that good as a freshman, or is the school small, or have they had trouble winning over the past few years? If the program hasn't been successful the coach may he trying to run off what he perceives to be, "the losers/returning players." Even if this is the case I would use a successful upperclassman as a leader of younger, less mature players. I would pull him aside and explain the kind of leadership I'm looking for.

One last thing. Has your son in any shape or form, even subconsciously (rolling of eyes, not looking the coach in the eyes when he's talking, strutted his seniority, etc.) dissed the coach because he's new and doesn't care for him?

I remembered my mother telling me this one when I was a kid . " The tall trees catch the wind." What she meant was the ones that have talent and shine over others will get the brunt from those that are looking for a scapegoat. It sounds as if the new coach is very insecure of his new postion so he has to take it out on someone.That someone is your son at least yesterday it was. He doesn't like being 2-4 and he is not about to say he is wrong with his decision making putting freshmen in the outfield behind your son. Your son can only do his job. I would say keep toughing it out knowing that as frustrating as it is, the coach is what he is, not very happy with his team overall and it is not your son's fault. For your son's sake, I would continue to look forward to summer ball, camps, showcases etc. I beleive they are more important anyway in the long run for playing at a higher level. Have your son consider high school ball as practice this year getting ready for summer ball.

We have had our difficulty with coaches over the years and I have tried many approaches of dealing with the c r a p that has been doled out to my younger sons in particular.

I have found that any actions that question the coach or cast them in any negative light have lasting negative repercussions for my sons, both on the field and among his team mates and peers in school.

Your situation is different than ours as your son is known and is already a junior. So he is ahead of the curve.

I still would do everything to keep my son in the game at HS (not playing raises questions that you do not want to discuss, you do not want the term "uncoachable" bantered about by an upset HS coach).

As parents this is especially hard and I find myself struggling with this right now.

It will do you no good to challenge or ignore the coach.

I would have had my son sit the 2 innings and support the JV team though in any case. Taking your kid from the field when everyone else was doing what was required by the coach put you in direct opposition and set your son apart from the team in a way that is not productive.

I have never been to a HS baseball field that did not have ice and a trainer to ensure proper care for a pitchers arm, I suppose they do exist.

I would have sat the 2 innings and then left to ice my sons arm if ice was not available at the field.

Otherwise dbg_fan has it right on, throw strikes and do your job.

Best of luck and I hope your situation improves.

Bring ice and saran wrap to the game for post game icing. I would never let my kid leave one minute earlier than the rest of the team. It just looks bad.

I dont think one minute of that caustic conversation with the coach would have happend had you not asked to leave early.

Being a part of the team is the most important lesson for your son to learn. Dont ask for special exceptions.

you are getting good advice here. You would do well to take heed.

Yes great advice.

Once you drop your son at the ball park the coach owns him until the game is over.
Leaving the game early to ice your son's arm reveals something about you and maybe the coach picked that up.

quote:

Originally posted by playfair:
Bring ice and saran wrap to the game for post game icing. I would never let my kid leave one minute earlier than the rest of the team. It just looks bad.

I dont think one minute of that caustic conversation with the coach would have happend had you not asked to leave early.

Being a part of the team is the most important lesson for your son to learn. Dont ask for special exceptions.

As rz1 (#4) and playfair have pointed out, this could've been why the coach took issue with you.

A move like this reeks of "prima-donna-ism".

Why do you need to ice after an outing of only 3 innings anyways????

Could've just let your son run some poles afterward instead and stay with the team until everyone was done.

Wow Thank you everyone for your advice. I actually feel alot better in advising my son in how to handle this individual. But the coach was not upset with son going home to ice his arm. ( The game was over) His comment to that was OH Yeah he needs to do that. (Personally he should have reminded him to run either that day or next also) He was more upset because 4 other kids had told him off after the game 4 seniors that did not get to play. So we took the brunt of it I think. Also yes I think he is a bit insecure. He has been passed up for 10 years to be a HS coach at this school. He was there last resort has to be a teacher.
Also to Floridafan. We do not have trainers at any games. Its up to the indiviual to take care of them self. To date last month 3 kids have had major injuries. Torn ACL, Broken wrist, Groin Strain. Not much goes into teaching or understanding health/stretching issues.
Just a little more history. My sons has received numerous (45 or more) letters from some top D1 colleges and this coach refuses to do the coach part. So we sent them in as to the advice given here as N/A.
But I do like the advice you have all given just treat this as practise don't worry about stats just keep throwing strikes and be ready for this summer.
Also keep track of son on his pitch count which we always do. He normally averages 10-12 an inning.
And let the coaches words go in one ear and out the other if it nonsense. We need to keep sons esteem okay and his health.
In his 5 inninigs of play he has gone 70 pitches and has thrown 58 strikes. Just keep going with the flow I guess.

quote:

The coach then ran after us (parents) and said we had to change our attitutde or he will have to punish our son.

The most important line in that post was neglected. That is a potential issue with the AD

If your son's arm being iced is that important, bring a cooler and ice and do it at the game. Stop asking for special treatment. It doesn't matter if it is reasonable or not. Why put the coach in that situation. It is a no win scenario. If the coach says no, you're angry and he is wrong. If he lets your son leave, then he is allowing special treatment, perceived or otherwise. Don't put him or your son in that situation. He made have had a resentment that he took out on you as a critique. When you didn't handle that well, he turned into an arse.

His response is both immature and irresponsible. With all due respect, what do you expect from a new coach trying to establish his authority.

I can assure you of one thing. You have no control over his reactions. As a result of his perceived instability, don't put your child, yourself, or the coach in those kind of situations.

We all have egos and want our children to be recognized for their efforts. Consequently, we are sensitive at perceived slights. Try to avoid things you cannot control. Such as his behavior.

Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. He may not be recognized for "toughing it out". I can assure you that if you leave the team, college coaches will wonder if he has an attitude problem. It can hurt him to leave. Just a reality.

This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. I hope that it turns out well. I have been through it and it is tough when a coach is poo head. Grin and bear it. Remember what we all tell our sons. Just smile and nod and say yes coach. I call it humility, not humiliation.

All that being said, threatening to punish your son for not liking YOUR attitude is wrong and immature. Period. I am sure you could go to admin and level your complaint and concerns over fairness. You will surely get some result. Will it be a positive one? You have no control over the outcome. The coach does though. I would think hard and long on this before doing it. I would also ask myself if it is all that bad, or is my ego getting in the way?

JMO

Asking a coach to leave a game early will never sit well with any coach regardless. Among many variables with a "developing" young coach, this looks like a tipping point.

Sound like, on this issue, you threatened his "turf"

Not siding with the coach on any other issue. If things get too bad then school officials may need to be made aware. However, after this is done the toothpaste will be out of the tube and things will never be the same, even if your issues are resolved.

Best of luck

Dumb question: why do school officials need to be made aware?

The kid wanted to leave and go ice---very simple--do it why the coach speaks--ice don't make noise

You seem to want to do your thing---and you blame the coach ---you touched a nerve here


By the way it might help if the boythrew more balls just to keep hitters off balance--if they know he grooves strikes they sit on the pitch

This almost certainly will not be the last time your son has to figure out how to deal with a coach who he doesn't get along with. In my view, this is an important thing to learn.

How to be a great teammate, hustle every day, every play, work hard to get better, and keep a great attitude - even when you feel the coach is treating you unfairly.

Learning how to do this is far, far more important than any single HS baseball season.

It would appear that you have already perhaps reacted to this in a way your son is emulating with the coach. I would stop this immediately.

Turn it into an exercise in overcoming adversity, and it will do you son a heck of a lot of good in the future.

BBMom34,

First of all, congratulations… sounds like you have a very talented son. You also sound like a great parent who loves your son very much, just like most of us here. I hope you can understand that these stories like yours, while being very true to you, are really incomplete without hearing the story from the coaches standpoint. Unless the coach is somehow endangering your son I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. I would move on to something more important regarding your son’s future.

I’ve told this story a few times before, but I’m not sure how many “read between the lines” and think about what it really means. Please read between the lines and think that this could someday be your son… FWIW

Opening day in Milwaukee, our son had made the Brewers roster out of spring training. He had previously had some major league time with the Yankees and Diamondbacks. This was his 11th year in a professional baseball career that included two surgeries, one TJ surgery. The Brewers were playing the Astros and the park was full being opening day. Not sure how many, but 45,000 or so.

My wife, another one of our sons and a few friends were all there. Our son was brought in to pitch with one out and here is how it went (best that I can recall). All parents of pitchers have experienced the first part of this, it's the second part that is unusual.

Hitter 1 – Bloop single
Hitter 2 – Ground ball through opposite side of the infield for a single runners at 1st/3rd
Runner at 1st, steals 2B
Hitter 3 – Intentional walk to set up double play – Bases loaded
Hitter 4 - Squeeze play works, ball late to the plate, and bases still loaded, one run scores
Hitter 5 – Another infield hit, second run scores, bases still loaded

Manager comes out to take him out, and as our son is walking towards the dugout, the entire crowd (minus us ) were booing him at the top of their lunges. Now I have been around this stuff my entire adult life. I spent a lot of time trying to teach our kids how to deal with the many things that can sometimes get in the way of success. But as I sat there watching our son walk off the field and listening to the boo’s get louder and louder… I could only think of one thing… How in the hell do you ever prepare someone for something like this? You just never think about advising someone about how to deal with 45,000 people full of temporary hate directed at one person. First of all, how many actually experience anything like this? I had heard lots of booing in the past, but it sure was a lot different this time around.

Then it hit me… Sometimes there are things you have no control over, things you can’t prepare for, times that you can’t protect someone, or you have any control over. I stood there looking around and wondering what was going through our son’s mind. Thinking, it's just a bunch of crazy baseball fans and hoping that he was strong enough to deal with this. Somehow, I just knew he was as he looked up at the crowd rather than hanging his head as he entered the dugout!

BTW, the next relief pitcher came in and gave up a Grand Slam. Son’s totals on opening day… 0 IP, 5 ERs. Oddly enough, there wasn’t a ball hit well, but that had happened before and he WAS prepared for that.

Anyway, we are in the car after the game and they were interviewing our son Ben on the radio. They actually asked him what he thought about all the booing. His reply… "You can’t let that stuff bother you. I would have booed too, when I do well the same people will be cheering". I was very proud of the fact he actually was prepared for the adversities that come with baseball. Even those things you can’t possibly prepare for.

Some might not understand why this was such a big deal or anything out of the ordinary, but that is only because they haven’t really experienced it in a personal way. It’s one thing to get ridden by the opposing crowd, this was the home team crowd. This wasn’t a few crazy fans yelling negative comments, this was more like 45,000 crazy people wanting to stone your son to death (exageration). My wife had heard bad things said by fans before, but as I looked at her this time she was shaking, her mouth was wide open in awe of this scene. There was nothing normal about this moment! This was something unforgettable, yet a very important experience, maybe even one of those priceless things. It might be hard to understand, but once past the immediate impact I was actually glad that it happened.

BTW, in his next 7 appearances (all one inning) he allowed one base runner. That one baserunner was another strange experience, that was replayed a gizzilion times on ESPN… It was Barry Bonds (historical at the time) 661st HR, which passed Willie Mays on the all time list.

So how does all this relate to younger kids and the adversity that comes with baseball? I will let others figure that out in there own way. But IMO it does have something to do with the mistakes we all have made by being too protective about certain things that are really insignificant in the long run. I think young players have to learn to deal with and solve problems on their own. It’s actually a very important part of the process! If they play long enough, they WILL run into many different coaches. Might as well prepare them early for the inevitable. If they have what it takes and they aren’t being abused, they will overcome the obstacles.

Thank You all but We did not leave the game early. The varsity game was complete we sat for another 30 mins. So that the 4 seniors could have it out with coach. Then the JV team had 45 minutes to warm up and then we were to sit for another 2 innings to support JV teams. It was a rescheduled game change from Tuesday till sat at 3 then sat at 11. Not our home field it was an hour away. Numerous players left (6) total. We support the team but we do have somewhat of a life. Saturday is a busy day in working people's life. Have other children also. But you need to get your children where they need to be. (They are not allowed to drive themselves per coach.) Yes I guess we could be considered selfish but I enjoy weekends with my family. Since in the summer all we do is travel for his baseball. And my sons plays 3 Varsity sports.
The JV game went 4 innings lost by slaughter rule.

Thank YOu very much for that Post PGStaff We will share that with our son and we will keep this story in mind. Will also try to keep this story alive in my sons head when ever he gets down/upset what ever his mood. (Teenagers)

Not that I can top any of the advice given (especially PG's) I do have some questions about some things you said

quote:

Well this year he has another new coach for HS ball

How many coaches has your son played for in HS?
How successful has the school been during these other coaches tenure?

quote:

To date last month 3 kids have had major injuries. Torn ACL, Broken wrist, Groin Strain. Not much goes into teaching or understanding health/stretching issues.

Were all of these baseball injuries or other spring sports invovled?
If they were baseball injuries how did they happen?

quote:

He was more upset because 4 other kids had told him off after the game 4 seniors that did not get to play.

So the 4 seniors told him off because they didn't play?
How did he handle this - did he yell at them or sit there and take it?

quote:

My sons has received numerous (45 or more) letters from some top D1 colleges and this coach refuses to do the coach part. So we sent them in as to the advice given here as N/A.

What did these letters want from the coach?
What did he say or do when he was asked to fill these out?

quote:

Well now where the advice is needed. After game coach required kids to sit for 2 innings of next game (JV were playing) We asked coach if we could take son home so he could ice his arm (game was an hour from home) Coach said that was fair and said okay But then proceeded to insult us (parents) on how son needs to hit his spots better and that's why we lost the game.

So did he go from reasonable to a jerk all of a sudden or do you think you might have missed some sarcasm? Reason I ask is that from what you put it seems he went bipolar and changed his attitude very quickly.
Did you stay the required amount of time or did you ask to leave the JV game early?

quote:

The JV game went 4 innings lost by slaughter rule

If most of the younger players are playing varsity then who is playing JV?
How many are on the varsity and JV roster?

Does your son play another position? Reason I ask this is if he pitched 3 innings and came out he could ice his arm the rest of the varsity game. If you waited until you got home an hour away after waiting all that time then icing would be pointless at that point. Of course if he went to another position then he would have to wait.

Thanks

A torn ACL is not something that you can really blame a coach for... Guess what-- no stretching is going to prevent that!!

Regarding staying for the JV game, how hard is it? If coach says to stay, then stay. How difficult is it to follow a few simple policies? If your son needed to so desperately ice his arm, then I'm sure there was ice at that school or he should have brought his ice packs or whatever with him.

It's Over BBMom34, Over.
Unless the coach apologize to you the next day , your son will have a tough time to be in the team.
Coaches have pride to protect. If he is a hard nosed coach, he won't give up that pride.

If I were you,
1. Start a body conditioning right now for March.
2. Get a private pitching and hitting instructor for Apirl or May. Practice everyday.
3. Play in a elite summer team in the summer.
4. Attend 3-4 PG events during the Fall & Winter.
5. Start signing the NLI after November.
6. Skip the senior ball and start spring training in Feb & maybe more PG showcases around the country if no one pick him up.

jmho

IMO, it is not in the best interest of anyone to give up... Least of all, your son!

Things should calm down in time. Coaches are people too and just like all of us they sometimes say or do things they wish they wouldn't have said or done. I wouldn't be surprised if something good happened yet this year.

BBMom34 said: I know some/most of you will just tell me stay out of it.
___________________________________________________________


Your son is just starting the journey that separates the men from the boys. At this point it is important for you to show your son that you trust his judgment.

He needs to handle himself under stressful circumstances. If you fail to assure him that he has the "stuff" necessary to handle this coach and his new circumstances you could be responsible for destroying his confidence such that even when he is on the mound in pitching situations he may feel unworthy to succeed.

Believe me he will get plenty of negative feedback from coaches, players and people in the stands at the ball park. What he needs from you is a firm belief that your trust him, that he is worthy of the responsibility he has been given and his future is his to determine based on his own commitment to excellence.

In every walk of life there are jerks. Your son's performance and his reaction to them is based upon his own goals for himself not based upon hurtful actions and words of their insensitive remarks.

None of us are guaranteed not to be offended. What separates the men from the boys is how we handle being offended.

Believe me when I say your son will weather this coach if he keeps his eye focused on the task and not the personality.

JMO

I am with PG here. It is never over. If you value the HS baseball experience then I would have my son, face to face, have a conversation with the coach. Tell him the steps you are going to take to make sure you hit your spots etc.(whatever is important to the coach)

The thing about hs baseball is this. It is a club. The coach runs the club. You can if selected to play for the club choose to play or not. But, it is his club to do whatever he wants with it.

quote:

His reply… "You can’t let that stuff bother you. I would have booed too, when I do well the same people will be cheering". I was very proud of the fact he actually was prepared for the adversities that come with baseball.

Great story PG. One spring I was wandering around the Padres spring training facility. Against a backstop I encountered a coach named House. I turned and said, "Are you Tom House who played for the Red Sox?" He laughed. He said he was surprised I knew his last name. When I asked why he responded, "By the time the announcer said, "Now pitching, #28, Tom ..., the park was echoing with boos." House had been brought in as a savior for the Red Sox bullpen and didn't meet expectations.

I would be very proud if my own 13 year old son ever got to pitch on his HS varsity team.

But as the father of just a 13 year old pitcher, I am surprised that the parents of a varsity pitcher didn't bring their own ice to the game? Especially if the schools trainer is not on top of this stuff already????!!!!

We have for a long time brought one of those ice wraps that you freeze in a cooler in our car.

quote:

In every walk of life there are jerks.

Very true, and also: In every walk of life there are less-experienced (coaches / teachers / managers / bosses) who will make some mistakes on the way to becoming a more-experienced and hopefully better (coach, etc.).

It sounds like this coach didn't handle things perfectly, but as a new coach he may be having a tough time learning to juggle the priorities of putting a winning team on the field this season, developing players for next season, and trying to get some playing time for seniors.

I remember when my younger son was on his HS freshman baseball team. Our freshman team had a new coach who had coached track but not baseball and had not even played baseball beyond LL. The coach was also a pastor and teacher at our small private HS, and one of the nicest, gentlest, kindest men you could ever hope to meet.

A few games into the season, our freshman team was beating the opponent something like 30 to 2 in about the third inning. This coach was so excited for his team that he forgot all about being a coach. He was grinning and just about jumping up and down at all the runs being scored, and seemed to have no idea that he should manage the game to keep the margin from going higher. He also had two players sitting on the bench who had gotten little or no playing time in the season so far, and he seemed to have forgotten all about getting those two players into the blowout game while there was still an inning or two left before the mercy rule. One of the dads who knew the coach quite well went over to the bench and quietly, respectfully reminded him of those things - which he appreciated.

I tell this story just to point out that new coaches have a lot of responsibilities to juggle, and it may take them a while to get things all under control. Meanwhile, if they are criticized by players and parents at games, they may not always have the presence of mind to stay calm after the 3rd or 4th complaint of the day. I agree with what PGStaff said:

"Things should calm down in time. Coaches are people too and just like all of us they sometimes say or do things they wish they wouldn't have said or done. I wouldn't be surprised if something good happened yet this year."

Good luck to your son, and let us know how things go!

Julie

Just an update on what happened on Monday. Well my son and one other boy are the only junior or seniors left on the team. The coach decided to suspend the rest (7 of them) since they show him no respect. So he will play his freshman and sophomore's who play on his travel team. Sigh its going to be a long season. Yes my son will probably sit the bench but oh well.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMom34:
Just an update on what happened on Monday. Well my son and one other boy are the only junior or seniors left on the team. The coach decided to suspend the rest (7 of them) since they show him no respect. So he will play his freshman and sophomore's who play on his travel team. Sigh its going to be a long season. Yes my son will probably sit the bench but oh well.

That's tough - at least your son is respectful. (btw, is that an excuse for the coach - not that your son isn't normally respectful) you know what what I'm saying -

Bet the AD gets an earful. Good luck with the season.

The one thing that I am very experienced in is crazy coaches in HS. I can tell you that the players develop thick skin very quickly. After about the first month, when the coach starts acting crazy, he is lucky if half the players are actually listening to him. They may be looking him in the eye and nodding their heads, but they aren't listening. By the end of the year none will be hearing a word he says. If the kids are underclassmen, they won't hear a word he says the following year. Get your son ahead of the curve. Teach him to nod his head, look the coach in the eye, and go out and do his job. It will be good training for when he grows up and gets that crazy boss.

Good luck.

quote:

After about the first month, when the coach starts acting crazy, he is lucky if half the players are actually listening to him. They may be looking him in the eye and nodding their heads, but they aren't listening. By the end of the year none will be hearing a word he says.

Even a good coach gets tuned out sometimes by the end of the season. The kids are thinking, "Been there, heard it before Coach." This is where leadership by experienced players is helpful.

A crazed coach is just cutting his throat. I coached with one last year. The players told me they had already tuned him out when I told them to hear the message and take the behavior as a sense of urgency instead of craziness.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that RJM. Good coaches keep their players motivated, challenged and continually learning and improving. Most kids don't tune them out. They have the ability to interact with all of the players and keep them interested in what they have to offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Gonna have to disagree with you on that RJM. Good coaches keep their players motivated, challenged and continually learning and improving. Most kids don't tune them out. They have the ability to interact with all of the players and keep them interested in what they have to offer.

They listen most of the time. But there are times when they tune them out. When Pat Riley resigned from the Lakers one reason he gave was he had run out of ways to motivate his players where they would listen. He said he had come at them from so many angles and run out of angles. There was nothing they hadn't heard before. They were starting to tune him out from hearing it before too many times.

I've played for some very good coaches in high school and college. There were times I knew they were being tuned out. What are you going to say to a Legion player (high school age) at game sixty of the summer he hasn't heard before? Now let's make it game sixty of the third season playing for the coach. This is when motivated players and team leaders take over.

My son has played many seasons of rec and travel baseball and basketball for me. One time in the car on the way to a game he smiled and said, "Dad, do we get motivational speech #7 or #26 today?" I know he's not paying attention when I give the speech. He could probably give it word for word. He looks in my direction out of respect me as a coach.

RJM,
Those are long term scenarios. Most HS coaches only get the kids for a year or two. They had better be able to motivate them for two short seasons. Even kids that play for four years have a different dynamic with the coach over the four year time span. They go from kids that have talent and know next to nothing to Coaches on the field as captains and leaders. Good coaches know how to handle them and keep them listening, motivated and learning throughout their entire career.

quote:

They go from kids that have talent and know next to nothing to Coaches on the field as captains and leaders.

How can you say that the 14U 'All-Universe' travel player knows 'next to nothing'???

Seriously, it doesn't have to be the same coach for the 'been there, heard this before' or even 'been there and heard it from better coaches than you' to set in....

Hawk,
I said good coaches.

And have you been watching my son?

We went to the Pinnacle/Brophy game last night. It is always a good reality check.

quote:

We went to the Pinnacle/Brophy game last night. It is always a good reality check.

I would have liked to see that one! Each team has one of my son's former travel teammates playing on the varsity. It would have been nice to see them play again.

Brophy didn't use their ace. It was a tournament. It doesn't count towards power rankings. I am sure that they didn't want to give Pinnacle a look at him until it counts. Pinnacle looked good with the bats and threw their ace. 16-0.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMom34:
Just an update on what happened on Monday. Well my son and one other boy are the only junior or seniors left on the team. The coach decided to suspend the rest (7 of them) since they show him no respect. So he will play his freshman and sophomore's who play on his travel team. Sigh its going to be a long season. Yes my son will probably sit the bench but oh well.

Just curious did you ever apologize to the coach. Think about it the coach just had 4 players disrespect him then the parents of one of his best players wants to go home early. I think the coach was wrong but, this guy has to be dying there is no sign of leadership amoung his older players. In case you don't get what I'm talking about the players should want to stay for the JV game and support them. Go the extra mile for the whole team not just the varsity and I bet the coach and players will have a lot more fun.

One coach had a rule that the freshmen, were responsible all the equipment getting it to the field whether practice or games. One year a group of Seniors took that role away from the freshmen carring all the bat bags, Balls, and practice screens. Throughout the season the group of seniors shown selflessness at every oportunity. Funny thing I don't recall a single team problem that year.

Just another update. Its been a long week. Well we lost our 3 games this week. Our team seems to not even want to be on the field. Its very sad. But my son went one of the game and the coaches screamed at him after every pitch to keep his foot closed.
We made mention that he was opening up his hips. After 2nd pitch the coach was at the mound. Son says it was for the catcher since he had seemed not to know the signs. Anyway he went only 2 innings with one hit and 4 K's no walks. So he worked threw the yelling okay. But he did not look his best out there. He said coach told him yet again he was not hitting his spots and he really needs to change his attitude or he was not going to see any more play time. Yes we have taken all your advice and he is nodding his head and doing what he is told. We lost the game 5-3.
The Friday's game we lost 18 - 2. They put my son in again for 1 inning. He had 2K's and one hit. He was happy because he struck out the D1 player (going to Univ of Miami) that player went 3 for 4 and 2 walks that game. But yet again the coach proceeded to tell son what a horrible job he did and thats why they lost the game. He went in in the 4th inning when it was already 15-2.
Yes it is starting to affect him at home also he is just getting really down about himself.
So advice needed yet again First off my sons does not have attitude at all he is a very quiet kid and just nods head yes. Does what he is told. No other coach Football or Basketball have any issues with him they actually like him very well.
He is up against a lot of obstacles this season absolutely no team behind him as a pitcher. He is normally a ground ball pitcher not a K pitcher. But he is doing his best. He also had not even had an AB since his homerun. 3 games ago. So he feels like a failure there also. There is no approaching this coach about anything.
So really would like some more advice on how we get through this nightmare.
Since he is still my son he wants our advice and I am at a point I really not sure what to tell him.

BBmom, maybe its time for your son to go one on one with coach over his "attitude", he needs to stand up for himself. If he is respecting the coaches and being a team player, he may have no choice but to tell the coach face to face his style is hurting the "team".

Doing this for him would make things worse, sometimes a coach may respect a young man for standing up for himself.

quote:

But yet again the coach proceeded to tell son what a horrible job he did and thats why they lost the game. He went in in the 4th inning when it was already 15-2.

Are these comments heard directly by you or relayed through your son? That sounds so "off the wall" and I can't imagine a HS coach saying that to a player

Your kid seems to be one of the better players yet he receives the brunt of the blame personally. Do other players get criticized?

This is strange,.

This really does sound strange. If I was in your shoes I guess I'd have a sit down with my son and say this: "Now listen son; your job is to go out there and do your dead level best every day and DO NOT give the coach any bad attitude."

Then I would probably consider going and talking to a principal or ad, however your school is set up and just talking about the environment of the team.

In the meantime; when he gets a chance to pitch stay locked in with his catcher. Don't get distracted (not even by you telling him not to open his hips; that's not helping things you yelling stuff out because coach is hearing it as you trying to usurp his role... he is obviously insecure about the whole situation....

I'm rambling here.... I think Rz said it best: this is really strange.

Yes It is very off the wall That is why I am asking advice. And No we do not shout anything out at him while he pitching we actually cheer more for the other kids on the team. It is the coaches that are doing the Yelling. We are trying to convince him that he will not get thrown off the team if he goes to AD to address some of the issues he has. Actually most (5)players feel this way about going to the AD. No he criticizes everyone but is a little more severe with my son. He does praise the freshman, sophomore from his travel team that play. He does it in front of everyone. Parents, coaches, players etc. Like I have said previously this is his 3rd year Varsity and he is a junior. He has the ability. This is a new coach 3rd one in 4 years. So we know most of the coaches/players/parents of the other teams we play. He has to date always got a handshake and a word of compliment from these other coaches/players on his performance on the mound. Including this year. No not just the handshake after the game they pull him aside to talk to him and congrat him. Just trying to keep him with it and how to deal with this coach.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMom34:
Yes It is very off the wall That is why I am asking advice. And No we do not shout anything out at him while he pitching we actually cheer more for the other kids on the team. It is the coaches that are doing the Yelling. We are trying to convince him that he will not get thrown off the team if he goes to AD to address some of the issues he has. Actually most (5)players feel this way about going to the AD. No he criticizes everyone but is a little more severe with my son. He does praise the freshman, sophomore from his travel team that play. He does it in front of everyone. Parents, coaches, players etc. Like I have said previously this is his 3rd year Varsity and he is a junior. He has the ability. This is a new coach 3rd one in 4 years. So we know most of the coaches/players/parents of the other teams we play. He has to date always got a handshake and a word of compliment from these other coaches/players on his performance on the mound. Including this year. No not just the handshake after the game they pull him aside to talk to him and congrat him. Just trying to keep him with it and how to deal with this coach.

BBmom34: I would simplely get to him and say “I quit". I can't imagine any parents can endue these kind of abuse. Sorry, I am a little bit short tempered guy. But this is beyond "sick", no AB in 3 games for a home-run hitter. I had enough. The coaches suppose to support players while they are down, not to kick them down in the back. What a jerk! I hope when my son join the HS team next year he won't have to face this kind of coach. Otherwise, I won't let my son play for him for even one day.

The AD has no bearing in this situation---it is the player and the coach for better or worse but it help your son---why do parents want to run to the AD--they are even doing it now in college---what a joke===let the kids grow up


Will pou go to job interviews with him and if he gets the job will you bring him lunch every day?

Cmon folks---they have to learn how handle problems like these on their own

I doubt going to the AD or principal will be of any help. This is the third coach in four years and that tells me there are some problems somewhere. Maybe this jerk is the only guy the AD could get hired because a real coach doesn't want to coach in this situation. Or maybe the AD is buddies with the coach and gave him a job. I agree there are some strange things going on here.

OK TRHIT
What is your advice for him how to handle it because he does not know what to do as do we. Personally I would not deal with it. And move on.
Still have 8 to 9 weeks of this. But when a child goes to his parents for help I have a hard time saying sorry kid your on your own figure it out. I still trying to get him ready for the real world. School at least high school should be a learning lessons for life in my opinion.
And no I will not go to the interview or be bringing him his lunch. HA.
I would like him to learn how to deal with no win situations like an adult. Not like the example this coach is showing. Lets see a 17 yr vs a 50 yr old. Who should be adult? He's been told he S***X where do you go from there? Kids are suppose to respect adult authority figures in there lives Correct?
SO TRHIT I really would like to know how to advice my son?

Some of this doesn't make sense, I agree.

Being a mom myself, I know we tend to be too protective at times.

Couple of things, stop asking your son what's going on, he's gonna play on your emotions, he has to go back and speak to the coach himself, what am I doing wrong coach, what's the problem. Speak up (not in a defiant way when spoken to), the more he lets the coach know he can manipulate him with his tone, the more he might. Do this FIRST. Perhaps as an older player he needs to be a leader, that may be why the coach is ragging on him. Sounds like the team has no leadership.

Also understand that sometimes the better players get their heads banged in because of higher expectations.

Stop with the how good he is (using D1 signee as an example) and how bad the team is. That has no revelance and above all remember this is HS baseball, it will be over soon.

My son was a HS sophmore on an average team. The coach would take the team out to the centerfield wall and scream for 15 minutes after each game. They didn't finish much better than they startd so the effectiveness of the screaming wasn't really measurable.

I don't care if the coach yells. If he yells he should do it out of earshot of parents.

Lots of thing a different about college baseball. The practices are longer. The road trips are longer. The lockerroom yelling sessions after the games can last for hours.

BBMom34

Not so strange. He's busting your chops through your kid. Obviously he drew the line in the sand on your first albeit regrettable conversation.

Here's a little one question quiz and I'll spot you a letter.

Q. The only thing a coach wants to hear from a parent

A. N......

I made this post the first time over 3 years ago in respond to a poster who reported similar issues as you:

************************************
My son had some troubles with his HS coach for reasons we never could put our finger on but as result, he wrote one of his first decent songs....

Destiny

They talk to you like they really know
Tell you you're not good enough
And that's just the way it goes
You know deep down that they're making a mistake
And you just don't know exactly how much you can take

(Chorus)
It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me

There's always something wrong with
everything you do
It doesn't matter what it is, the problem is with you
And every step you take, they try to hold you back
Instead of seeing what you got, they focus on your lack

It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me

So walk around those people standin' in your way
Keep on headin' toward your goals every
single day
Don't let what others say affect the things
you do
The words that shape your life should only come from you

It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me
My life it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
and I'll only do what I think's best for me
(fade out)

He never quit and kept focused on his goals.
He's still playing baseball and that particular coach went back to coaching just football so I guess they both got what they wanted.

Dreams are great, but at some point you have to get out of bed and make it a reality.

***********************************************
Looking back, it's all still true.
He is still playing baseball on the #1 ranked team in the NAIA and contributing to the team. He's also still writing music. I have no idea what his former coach is doing and neither does he. I'm quite sure he doesn't care.

He did what many here have suggested. He took the verbal beatings with his mouth shut and his head high. (When even other parents noticed and made comments to me about it, I knew it wasn't just my son saying these things...that there was truth in his version that he was being singled out for beratings that we will never understand). He kept his head up and did his job whenever he was given the ball.
He never doubted that he belonged on the field. He learned a lot about himself and how to handle his life through those years. He still holds to that and knows he belongs on the mound and owns it whenever he takes the hill.
In fact, he owns whatever he takes on and does it with pride.

Some of the best advice you can give your son at this point, decide for yourself if you want to be a part of this team. If the answer is yes, then do whatever it takes and take whatever comes to be a leader for the younger players and a contributer to the team as a whole.

I personally think you learn far more when you fight your way through periods of adversity than skating through your moments of achievement.

BBMOM

Very simple--just what I would say to my sons--"suck it up , play the game and handle it"-=-

OK--your son is not the only kid who has had or has porblems with his coach---also we only know what you are telling us--there is something strange here, at least in my estimation.

Baseball Mom,

I admire your concern for your son. If everything you’ve said has happened then you definitely have experienced a bad coach. Also, you need to understand that most of us don’t know you, your son or the coach. What most of us have experienced is many unreasonable parents. You should read some of the nasty emails I get about not knowing anything because we ranked their son too low. To be fair… I’ve also seen some real bad coaches.

I am a big believer in trying to make the best out of every situation, no matter how bad it might seem. I think that is what it takes to be successful in baseball. If someone is telling your son he isn’t any good, prepare your son to prove that person wrong. I know… easier said than done… But the most fragile don’t succeed in this game!

A story that happened just yesterday. We went over to give our grand kid a birthday present. He is 9 years old this weekend. Anyway, he had to leave soon to play a basketball game. I’ve watched him play and he’s pretty good for an 8 year old. Can’t shoot yet, but he has real quick feet and he is maybe a bit more athletic than most of the kids his age playing in that league. They play controlled basketball where the coaches are actually out on the court trying to teach them things and concentrating on sportsmanship. It was great fun to watch those little kids and when he scored a basket you could see a great big smile on his face. He looked surprised that the ball went in, I know I was. I think the final score was something like 6 to 4. Most important… He was an 8 year old kid having a blast.

Well, there we were in the house and his mom started talking about how they were going to get him in a better league next year because he was too good to be playing where he was. She went on to say, he needs better coaching, they’re not teaching him anything and he needs to be around more talented kids. She said all this (very easily) right in front of the young boy and his brothers. I jus about PUKED! Said, well we got to get going now and the wife and I left. In the car I asked the wife… Can you believe what she just did? Wife said, she sounds just like some of the people we see. I said, she just cut down the kids coach, saying he doesn’t know anything and basically told her son he is too good for the kids, the team and the league he is playing on. He can’t possibly develop the right attitude listening to that kind of ****!

Worst of all is that grandson’s mom is a school teacher.

Obviously this story is not meant to compare in anyway to your situation, but it is something to think about.

PG, way to go.

You are right, we often don't realize what we say in front of out kids that automatically makes them think the coach stinks, the player is better, etc.

I will tell you why I love this post. When son was younger everyone TOLD us he should be playing up. He better than everyone, he could we find a better coach. What was the point, he was young, he was having fun. he was learning the skills of playing in a team environment. He was learning it wasn't all about HIM. All would come in due time and it did. We never told him he was better than anyone, ever, we did tell him at times he could be better than his last game, and no matter what except in one instance (too long in a game) never spoke up against the coach, but in general my son has had mostly good coaches. But I am sure that he has had verbal lashings on several occassions for what he feels no reason.

Actually he never came to us and complained, because he knew it would be a s*ck it up, it's not the first time, not the last time.

As stated, we are hearing one side of the story, we don't know you or where your son stands talent wise in relation to others his age. That's tough for me to give opinions. Unless the coach has done something that he can get hurt, he is the coach unless we know otherwise he is a jerk. I would have never asked if "we" could leave early to ice, all coaches wouldhave freaked and son would have freaked that we asked. Bring ice, that is YOUR responsibility.

I am not sure but kind of tired of all the posts that HS coach's have no clue what they are doing. If so, find a good summer and fall team. JMO.

FWIW, if you can't stand this stuff in HS, don't send your kids off to play college ball, you might be shocked. I got a kick out of Dad04's post, can relate as I am sure many of you can as well.

I think the best experience my son has had was playing second fiddle to the prima donas! As he has become stronger and better, many of those guys are no longer playing baseball.

If this coach is playing mind games and trying to bolster his select players - he is not doing them any favors. I know it is hard for parents - you feel helpless - but continue to be supportive and - the hardest part - be supportive of the coach. (at least don't say anything negative.)

I've read here that the "travel" coach (fall and summer ball) can be more influential than the regular HS coach. With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good Luck.

quote:

With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good excuse for eliminating the high school coach, team, whatever. So how does football do it?

I would like to Thank PG Staff again for another very good post. We enjoy reading your blog at perfectgame BTW. You always seems to put things into prospective. We never really thought he had any talent until you guys at perfectgame rated him in the top 200 in his freshman year. Also would like to thank Bluesky very interesting post.
Actually gives us some hope. We have been telling him that for years.
And for the other posts we never said anything to coach he just berated my son to us and we walked away. I am guilty for wanting to take my son home so he could ice. Personally I wanted to go home.
We just want him to have a good high school memory. Who knows if he is moving on to next level or not.
But again thank you for all of the advice some of it has been very useful. Just keep trying and don't give up on yourself because of circumstances.

quote:

We never really thought he had any talent until you guys at perfectgame rated him in the top 200 in his freshman year.

BBMom,

Sorry, now I'm a bit confused. If you are talking about our lists that rank players... We have never ranked freshman in high school. Even our current sophomore class (2011) only has a top 25 at this point. Could you explain what you mean by the top 200 in his freshman year? I'm not sure we would even know enough top freshmen in the country in order to make a list that big. Could you please explain.

Opps I meant sophomore it was the summer he was a freshman going to be a sophomore. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good excuse for eliminating the high school coach, team, whatever. So how does football do it?

Not saying that at all. Football - you may have noticed - has a slightly higher budget than baseball. Perhaps they can afford scouts to scour the HS games. Now, I have seen Head Coaches (Fox) at local HS games as well, but then I live in a state blessed with highly rated colleges everywhere.

My point - not well made - is that there are many ways to be seen. If a good player is not playing HS ball, imo, a red flag would be raised. otoh, I don't think players are penalized (by college recruiters) if they play on weak hs teams or on poorly coached hs teams. You can't help what district you live in.

Baseball has PG. Football has Rivals. Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season. Also, high school coaches do play a larger role in football recruiting, compared to baseball. The "power" HS football programs are long-established in metro areas and pipeline players to programs year after year. A good example is Miami Northwestern HS players to the "U" of Miami. Look at the roster.

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

quote:

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

They also bring in quite a bit more too at 90% of schools. And they have a much larger roster than other sports too..

quote:

Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season.

Football has combines yes. But football does not have "travel teams" that play year round. That was the point I was making..

BBmom, I really think the situation has gotten a bit out of control.

When my son started HS I made a goal. The goal was to never talk to the hs coach. EVER. Unless he wanted to talk to me.

My son is a senior this year. The coach and I have talked about the weather, how graduated players are doing in jc, college or pros but never about my son. My son takes care of that. Really, in 4 years I have spent less than 5 minutes with the coach one on one.

My son would kick my butt if I ever talked to the coach.

MY two cents, let the kid take care of it. Sink or swim. Baseball is a precursor to life. Life is more important. I know you know what to do. Tell him and make the kid follow through if it is important to him. Or not.

The coach would prefer never to talk to you. The coach wants to be respected by the players, they want to be over the "daddy days". Time to grow the kid up.

My husband had a saying I think it goes "Respect your elders until they show you different"

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

They also bring in quite a bit more too at 90% of schools. And they have a much larger roster than other sports too..

quote:

Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season.

Football has combines yes. But football does not have "travel teams" that play year round. That was the point I was making..

This was in today's paper - thought I would share.

http://www.newsobserver.com/821/story/1433425.html

quote:

N.C. State baseball coach Elliott Avent offered Jason Creasy a scholarship before he ever threw a pitch in a high school varsity baseball game.

Creasy, a 6-foot-4, 170-pound right-handed baseball pitcher, is a sophomore at Clayton High.

"It seems sort of strange, but that's the way baseball recruiting works now," said Clayton coach Stacey Hauser.

"You never see a college coach at a high school game anymore. All the recruiting is done off the summer."

Last summer Creasy's fastball was clocked in the 86 to 88 mph range, Hauser said.

"That got the colleges' attention. If he has normal development over the next couple of years, he'll get faster and better.

"He has a tremendous upside. It is just amazing to think of a young man getting scholarship offers before he has ever played in high school."

College coaches' evaluation of high school players in most sports is primarily done in the summer in club games and showcases.

College football coaches still watch a lot of high school game film, but that's changing.

It is becoming more and more important for potential college football players to attend combines and summer camps.

I have seen several posts about talking to the AD but I don't think I have read any about talking to the coach PRIVATELY. It seems like all the conversations have been at practice or a game. I have never coached beyond travel level but I always tell the parents that if they want to have a conversation, I will be glad to talk to them but not at practice or at games. No matter how quiet you talk or even if you move away from everyone it is still a public conversation and everyone is just going to guess and rumor about the conversation.

Make an appointment with the coach to clear the air. I don't mean go and complain but rather offer "coach what can I do as a parent to help my son meet your expectations." Don't comment on coaching style or motivation. Your goal is for your son to get better not be the coaches favorite. Give the coach a chance to voice his opinions in private and be willing to listen. You don't have to agree but be willing to hear what he has to say. Don't offer your side of the story unless specifically asked. If the coach makes general statements "tell your son to hit his spots" then ask " Are there drills you recommend that he should be doing to help that?" Ask the coach "Is there anything I do as a parent to help you?" Again you don't have to agree but being willing to listen. You may say "no just cheer the team" or "he may say just tell the rest of the parents to shut up" you can offer "how about if I just stay out of those conversations and not add to the fire." I guarantee you will gain more from the conversation by just listening and letting the coach vent then you will trying to change him.

As far as what started the original problem:

1) Your son should have stayed until coach said it was time to go. Coach was disciplining the team and you asked your son to skip it. Win and lose as a team. My son has played more than one flawless game and ended up running poles after the game with his teammates for their failure to execute. I kept my opinion of this to myself and reinforced to my son that you share the glory and the faults as a team. No one, no matter how good, is above that on a team.

2)The comments between you and coach after that first game should have been resolved the next day between you and coach. You have let this go on too long to go back and say "hey coach I am not happy about what you said 3 weeks ago.

Any conversations you have are between you and the coach. Don't go back to your son or even other parents to discuss your conversation. They don't even need to know you had a conversation with the coach. If the coach is still unreasonable and retaliates against your son then you will have a clear cut reason to leave the team. Again sharing your reasons with anyone outside your family is counter productive.

quote:

Any conversations you have are between you and the coach. Don't go back to your son or even other parents to discuss your conversation. They don't even need to know you had a conversation with the coach.

I know several coaches who will not talk to a parent about the player unless the player is there in the discussion as well.This way whatever is said is heard by both the parent and the player.

What do you guys think about initiating communication with a coach regarding summer colligiate programs? College player obviously.