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Advisor expectations

C cannon315100+ posts

I am interested in hearing what sorts of things players who have been drafted, signed and are playing professional baseball should expect to get from their advisor?  My son was drafted and signed a professional contract and has been playing Short Season A ball all summer.  He has an advisor who was recommended to him as a favor to him/us by his College Coach as the two of them played together in the minor leagues and the Coach vouched for him and trusted him which was good enough for us as we trust the Coach and think he's fantastic.  Recently, however, my son has been speaking to his teammates as well as participated in a conversation amongst his entire team while he was in Eugene, OR for his leagues' All Star game and that conversation plus those with his regular teammates seems to have made him aware of a large void in what it is that his relationship with his advisor consists of that what transpires for the majority of these other guys he has spoken to.  Things like the advisor congratulating him when it is in order, checking on him when the numbers or a performance would suggest he might need a comforting voice other than that of Mom or Dad, seeing to it that the organization feels he's doing as well as he appears to be or not doing as poorly as maybe he'd be concerned about, making sure he received what was available to him in the way of card deals, shoe opportunities or plying him with necessary items to play such as gloves, bats, etc.  One of his teammates is a pitcher whose Advisor calls him after each and every one of his outings and reviews the results with him (his roommate on the road is this guy so he listens to that discussion after each game that kid pitches), another got a "goodie bag" or stuff for having made the All Star game which was there at the hotel front desk when my son and this player checked in, another had a brush with the local police and his advisor made sure everything was ok with the organization and matched up with what this player represented - which was the truth - about being innocent and there being a misunderstanding which his advisor then vetted out with the police first and then made sure the organization was aware of the facts, etc.  Before we do anything to change things, I have always been given good guidance on here and figured I'd throw this out and see what came back.  The guy is a really good guy, we like him frankly, but it may just be that he's really only interested in the bigger fish as he has 16 big league guys he represents apparently and my son may just be a smaller option to him than he's truly interested in.  He really has no true arrangement with us, per se, other than what it was that he was in line to get from the bonus amount our son got and then there was nothing agreed to moving forward so now is the time to be looking into whether or not a switch might be in line to someone who is more inclined to want a player who fits our sons strata.  

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C cannon315100+ posts

One other example . . . our son recently learned that he was invited to Instructional ball in Arizona by his organization and his College Coach himself told him "that is a really big deal as that tells you the organization feels you have what it takes to be a Big Leaguer".  His advisor had no idea he was asked and that was three weeks ago that he found out. It was in that same discussion that he learned he played in the All Star Game two weeks earlier which it was told to him by our son . . . these things may not be uncommon to most other folks but it appears it is from the things my son is hearing in comparison to the guys he's spoken to about this. 

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts

Our son went through 3 advisors/agents with similar experiences as your son.  He finally settled on an agent who had played at his college before he did and had become a good friend during college.  That relationship has been great ever since, including through a very bad season and two injuries but also a couple of trips to the big leagues for our son.  And its not like that agent doesn't have a lot of BIG clients to take up his time - he does.

 

I don't know what to tell you other than it somehow seems to reflect how much they value or 'project' your player.  Or does it say something about them?  I don't know?  Its a business and anyone who thinks its personal probably isn't correct.  It is clear to me in hindsight that some of them were looking for a 'quick buck' off a signing bonus or fast ride through the minors...when that didn't look likely they moved on without any notification.  One such advisor (lasted for about a year) came onboard during our son's college senior year (he was #3).  Told me personally there was 'no charge,' it was just an 'investment' by their company because they saw 'promising potential.'  A year later when things were slogging along, the guy sent our son a 'bill' for his services (which were virtually nothing).  Another year later when the guy accidentally called my cell phone (mistaking my number for a national crosschecker with the same name), he embarrassingly made stupid excuses as to why he faded off.

 

Sadly, I still remember our son's HS advisor emailing me after our son was struck in the face in college in Cape Cod summer league.  Asked if he was ok?  (No phone call).  I responded that I thought it was gonna be ok.  We never, ever heard from him again.  I saw the guy at a college game a couple years later when our son pitched a CG over ASU (he was 'advising' an ASU player), the guy never said a word.  I thought it was...I dunno, rude?  So I finally just walked up to him and said 'hi.'  He acted as if he hadn't noticed me a few rows in front of him all weekend.

 

It is, what it is.  My advice?  Move on to someone who cares.  It takes a while to figure out who genuinely gives a rats a$$ about your son.  Or at least it did for me/us.  Trouble is, we only get to do this once and once you figure that out it could be too late.

 

If I sound bitter, I am not.  Absolutely not.  I really don't care.  Just things I observed and passing them on with hope you'll figure it out quicker than me.

Last edited by justbaseball
RedFishFoolRedFishFool5,000+ posts

In our experience, it was much more difficult choosing an advisor as opposed to a college. We could find out many things about a college. It was very difficult or non-existent finding out the bad things about an advisor. We could find where they have a client "Babe Ruth" sign a large contract but couldn't find where they screwed up on Joe HighSchooler. There are exceptions (Aiken, for example) but by and large, nothing. We spoke with several and narrowed it down. Ended up going with someone that the whole family felt comfortable with. This agency was mentioned to me early in the process by someone on this Board. The name came up again from an entirely different source. Although it was not the overriding factor, it was definitely a factor that both these two people liked the agency. 

I picture my son's advisor as being a Big Brother with legal and baseball experience. My son is at age that he does not want to tell Dad everything (or much). That's hard for me but it's okay. I completely trust his agency and trust my son. I want my son to trust them too and develop a rapport with them.. It's only been a month but he does. He is in communication with them several times doing the week. They talk baseball, diet, etc.

It is very early in the process for us. I can speak with much more experience several years from now.

(FWIW, your mileage may eventually vary based upon how the advisor perceives the anticipated athletic ability of his client)

Last edited by RedFishFool
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts

Good perspective RedFishFool.  I certainly agree that its easier to get info on colleges.

 

I do want to say that we too had plenty of 'testimonials' from good people about 2 of these 3 advisor/agents that turned out to be far less than that.  Testimonials from other players, well known travel coaches and others.  Our family too felt good about them.  College coaches told us they felt good about the first one.  Just didn't work out and I can only guess as to why not.

 

Its a business.  I'd never enter into a relationship again with any of these guys expecting anything other than that.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

Keep in mind that this is a business and the goal  is to make money for both parties involved. The advisor/agent develops relationships with players based on a couple of different things. Some are eager to get a part of the signing bonus, then they lay low. Others, especially the better ones, from the bigger agencies, are more interested in whether the player will someday sign a larger contract, that is where the agent makes his money on the player.  

 

A couple of questions. Where was your son drafted (which round)?   Is this an advisor or agent?  You said he had 16 ML guys.  Was this a favor and did he receive money from his signing bonus. Also keep in mind that he may not have been able to get your son a deal, based on his draft round. Companies look at it as an investment and  want to make sure that they get a return on their investment.  

 

Most guys drafted low do not have agents, until they prove they belong, then everyone wants to buy them dinner. 

 

There are all types of agents out there, I always tell people buyer beware. My son was fortunate to develop a relationship with his agent that if he needed him he was always there, that included phone calls, visits to see him pitch, texts after good/bad outings and equipment and card deals after he was drafted. Also because son has had injury issues, he always took care of everything.  No matter what happens they will always be friends.  That isn't unusual once the right guys pair up.

 

If you feel your son deserves better, than look for someone else, but keep in mind agents take on players because they feel they will someday soon be a ML player.  If this guy took money from your sons bonus and has done nothing for him, you need to make a call, that's totally unfair and frankly unethical, IMO.

 

Last edited by TPM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

One more thing, being invited to instructional fall ball means that the organization wants the player to improve upon things and that they want a closer look at his skills and what he can work on for spring training.  Most new drafted players have no clue what spring training consists of so this is a good idea of how it works for most new players. 

 

Its purely instructional and not to be confused with the Arizona Fall league which is considered a prospect showcase.

P PGStaff10,000+ posts

The agent/advisor and player relationship is personal.  Sometimes the poor agent for one player is a great agent for another player.  Usually those players considered among the best have several choices.  There really are a lot of excellent agents.

 

That said, the truth is there are also a lot of bad apples in the bunch. Most all agents need to be good salesmen.  Listen very carefully to what they are telling you.  They all know the easiest thing in the world is to switch advisors.  Sometimes you can tell if their advice is helping the player or protecting their own interest.  Watch out for when your advisor is giving you bad advice

rynoattackrynoattack10,000+ posts
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

The agent/advisor and player relationship is personal.  Sometimes the poor agent for one player is a great agent for another player.  Usually those players considered among the best have several choices.  There really are a lot of excellent agents.

 

That said, the truth is there are also a lot of bad apples in the bunch. Most all agents need to be good salesmen.  Listen very carefully to what they are telling you.  They all know the easiest thing in the world is to switch advisors.  Sometimes you can tell if their advice is helping the player or protecting their own interest.  Watch out for when your advisor is giving you bad advice

This is good advice, but how does a novice baseball parent know when the advice is bad?  Since this is probably a first time deal for most, and the agent/advisor is probably a seasoned veteran, how do you know what advice is good and what advice is bad?

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Originally Posted by rynoattack:
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

The agent/advisor and player relationship is personal.  Sometimes the poor agent for one player is a great agent for another player.  Usually those players considered among the best have several choices.  There really are a lot of excellent agents.

 

That said, the truth is there are also a lot of bad apples in the bunch. Most all agents need to be good salesmen.  Listen very carefully to what they are telling you.  They all know the easiest thing in the world is to switch advisors.  Sometimes you can tell if their advice is helping the player or protecting their own interest.  Watch out for when your advisor is giving you bad advice

This is good advice, but how does a novice baseball parent know when the advice is bad?  Since this is probably a first time deal for most, and the agent/advisor is probably a seasoned veteran, how do you know what advice is good and what advice is bad?

You are right, how does one know what advice is good and which is bad?

 

My suggestion would be to familiarize yourself with where your son may fall in the draft, if at all.  Early projection means that your son will be getting lots of phone calls from lots of different type of advisors/agent.  The way the draft is structured late pics do not really need an agent to help them to decide if they should go pro or to college, or stay in college or sign (seniors have no options really). A good advisor will make himself familiar with your son and his talent level, if he says he sees your son getting drafted early and PG or BA lists him as a late pick, well would you trust that advice?  

 

As PG wrote these relationships are personal, it is up to that player (and his parents if HS age) to sort out what the advisor is advising without compromising his eligibility. 

 

You can always ask questions here, and I know that Jerry Ford is always willing to give good advice!  You can probably trust him more than anyone else!

 

 

bacdorsliderbacdorslider5,000+ posts

Old post , but I have a few questions about the advisors.  2018 has one, he is from LA but has been to our high school three times to see him throw this season.  I have to say I liked that .    He said when 2018 moves to Va. for summer ball he will be going over to see him and will contact him every other day.  He also said he will be in Atlanta for the larger PG events and Ft. Myers and Jupiter. What else should we expect from an advisor?  He has a few vandy guys and some other summer team guys so we felt ok with him

joemktgjoemktg5,000+ posts

So your question really has to do with the state of the state as it exists right now. 

Given that the pro scouts are focused on the next draft, e.g., come June 10th, they shift their eyesight towards the 2017s, there's little value-add from an advisor for a 2018. Really the only thing 2018 can do right now is completely focus on his Canes squad, and working towards more rings, as well as building size, strength, and skills.

Unless, of course, he's considering skipping his senior year of HS...

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
bacdorslider posted:
There are other things that the advisor can help with besides the draft.


Sent from Outlook Mobile

Player has already committed, not draft eligible for awhile. You asked a question here, now you just told us that there are other things they can help with, so tell us.

Sorry but if were my son, I would have entertained all discussions from all parties and told them when son was ready I would contact them, closer to senior year. 

Lots of things can happen between now and then.

JMO

 

bacdorsliderbacdorslider5,000+ posts

So the thinking is that 2018's are too young to have an advisor because their draft year is too far out?  So the scouts are working on the 2016's and I would guess every other level that's draft eligible.    I get that...

I do not see why waiting is an advantage when you can change advisors anytime you want and they can drop you anytime they want. 

There are a few things that this particular advisor has been helpful with. I would rather not discuss it on a public forum .

I agree lots of things can happen between now and then. I feel it's better to have one than not to have one.  

I also like the fact that while 2018 is traveling around the country and I cannot be there , someone is .

 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
bacdorslider posted:

So the thinking is that 2018's are too young to have an advisor because their draft year is too far out?  So the scouts are working on the 2016's and I would guess every other level that's draft eligible.    I get that...

I do not see why waiting is an advantage when you can change advisors anytime you want and they can drop you anytime they want. 

There are a few things that this particular advisor has been helpful with. I would rather not discuss it on a public forum .

I agree lots of things can happen between now and then. I feel it's better to have one than not to have one.  

I also like the fact that while 2018 is traveling around the country and I cannot be there , someone is .

 

So it appears you answered your own question.

B baseballdad65500+ posts

Our 2016 did not have any advisors seeming interested in representing him during the summer of 2015. Most players on his travel team did. Last fall he continued to play better and better and after a phenomenal Jupiter in which they won the national championship he had 4-5 reaching out to him. His college coach stated unless your a 1st round pick you don't need one and basically said don't get one. For the longest time we did not. We ended up meeting in person with one advisor from ACES baseball. 4 months went by and finally this week we proceeded to secure their services. As a 2018-2019 player you don't need one right now. We are approximately 1 month before the draft and we just got ours.

P PGStaff10,000+ posts

This is actually happening more and more these days.  The scouting bureau is concentrating more on underclassmen.  MLB clubs are hiring scouts to follow underclassmen.  And we all know how college recruiting is working these days.

So I don't see anything wrong with having an advisor, provided that advisor proves to show an interest in the player.  Most important is trust, remember there are a lot out there that will disappear as easy as they showed up in the first place.  

The best advisors/agents truly put the players interests ahead of their own.   In the end both benefit by doing this.  I would always consider those that have been the most successful.  You want someone that can afford to be honest rather than the guy that needs a quick pay day. Plus they have more contacts and can find out more.  

So does anyone actually need one two years ahead of the draft?  Most probably don't, but I don't see it as a real problem.  So much depends on who that advisor is, how helpful he can be, and how much you trust his advice is in your son's best interests.  At the same time, always be in charge of the situation, because nobody is going to care as much as you do.

bacdorsliderbacdorslider5,000+ posts
TPM posted:
bacdorslider posted:

So the thinking is that 2018's are too young to have an advisor because their draft year is too far out?  So the scouts are working on the 2016's and I would guess every other level that's draft eligible.    I get that...

I do not see why waiting is an advantage when you can change advisors anytime you want and they can drop you anytime they want. 

There are a few things that this particular advisor has been helpful with. I would rather not discuss it on a public forum .

I agree lots of things can happen between now and then. I feel it's better to have one than not to have one.  

I also like the fact that while 2018 is traveling around the country and I cannot be there , someone is .

 

So it appears you answered your own question.

Apparently so...  I really just wanted to see the answers from my question.

bacdorsliderbacdorslider5,000+ posts
baseballdad65 posted:

Our 2016 did not have any advisors seeming interested in representing him during the summer of 2015. Most players on his travel team did. Last fall he continued to play better and better and after a phenomenal Jupiter in which they won the national championship he had 4-5 reaching out to him. His college coach stated unless your a 1st round pick you don't need one and basically said don't get one. For the longest time we did not. We ended up meeting in person with one advisor from ACES baseball. 4 months went by and finally this week we proceeded to secure their services. As a 2018-2019 player you don't need one right now. We are approximately 1 month before the draft and we just got ours.

So what did you feel the advantage was to not getting an advisor/agent until the time you did.  Did you feel it was just a hassle, that they did not have anything to offer until the draft?  I really don't why the college coach would say you do not need one unless your a 1st round pick. 

c2019c20191,000+ posts

I agree with PG Staff and Bacdorslider

I have a Agent/Advisor who has reach out to me, PG Staff would know of him,

He said my 2019 has tools and told me to keep him updated on his development  and would like to meet up with us  when he was in town, now granted my 2019 is nowhere near Draft or has even verbal to college. but Im  not paying anything for his input(via text or email) or thoughts on what showcases or teams my son should attend or play with . I also have local ones in town who are following my son, again they following his progress, its a business.

our first thought is college, and what school is the right fit. im enjoying the ride!!

FYI , I almost died few weeks ago , thank the lord i didn't get that stroke,

enjoy your family ,, and fight for them .. no one else will!!

G Goosegg10,000+ posts

It's certainly not a one size fits all. One huge problem is that advisors, like recruiters, and scouts need to throw a lot of stuff on the wall to some to stick.  The draft process - which begins early enough so scouts can build a data base for real use in the kids draft year - for adviso/kid relationships is a lot like the recruiting process in that the advisor does hundreds, thousands of kids and the family does (usually) one draft. Therefore, the advisor knows the magic words to warm a family's heart (something along the lines of "he's got some tools"), knows that a HS junior (or even below) and his family are on the other side of the learning curve, and can take advantage of that mismatch. Just like the RC can and often does.  

If a family uses an advisor (and I'll assume no future NCAA issues - even though I have seen a bunch of half year sit outs by those who fell afoul of the advisor rules) it becomes convenient to use the advisor as THE source of information; and I think that's wrong. The family needs to muddle though the learning curve - it's only then that the family can really immerse themselves in the details which will be needed to decide which option is best for your kid.

Keep in mind the advisors financial incentives: no money until proball. Alway, always, always understand the incentives of these people.  A family, and their own coaches, can determine if a kid in 11 (or lower) has a path to proball out of HS; no need for an advisor to tell you that.   In this day and age, the Internet is a treasure trove of info needed to determine (a) if kid is good enough to (b) make the decision to place proball before college. Then the question becomes: at what price?  I've seen HS guys sign for 35k and I've seen college juniors not sign for 150K; so the decision is personal.  This is a decision which must be made by the kid and the family - an advisor who is giving out more than sources the family should read directly at the early stage we're writing about here, is, IMO, intruding.  What a 11th grader (or younger) should be worrying about is improving his baseball skills, grades, scores, and keeping out of trouble.  The advisor brings way too much too soon.  This is the family's joint job - and for kids that age, the family has plenty of time to learn the process.

But, so long as you realize that the decision, the input, your son's future, all of it, is on the family and no part of it can be laid off on an advisor.

Please remember, I'm addressing my own personal opinion on advisors for pre-draft year kids; not draft year kids where an advisor can help maintain sanity when everyone in the house is feeling - shall we say - somewhat stressed.

C cannon315100+ posts
TPM posted:

One more thing, being invited to instructional fall ball means that the organization wants the player to improve upon things and that they want a closer look at his skills and what he can work on for spring training.  Most new drafted players have no clue what spring training consists of so this is a good idea of how it works for most new players. 

 

Its purely instructional and not to be confused with the Arizona Fall league which is considered a prospect showcase.

I've been receiving a plethora of notices of new posts on this old submission and actually needed to come  back here to see the wording of my original inquiry.  Upon doing so, I saw this reply from you (TPM) and realized I never responded or commented.  I was wrong and was thinking of the AFL - a distinction my son DID get after last season but had a shoulder impingement and didn't get to take his roster spot on the Surprise Saguaros - and it should NOT be confused with Instructs.  Thanks for the correction.  

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
roothog66 posted:

When you consider that many mlb team offices now specifically hire scouts whose only job is to follow underclassmen, I fail to see how it hurts.

I don't know - maybe it depends on the kid?  And the parent?

Looking back, I thought it was a distraction for our older son in his senior year of HS and his freshman year of college.  Advisors tried to advise to much?  Or maybe he/we weren't smart enough to keep it at a proper perspective and distance?  Caused us to pay too much attention to rankings and movement in rankings?  Or the last outing?  Too much attention to what the next crosschecker or scout might see or say?  Too much influence trying to be exerted about college choice?

And as things weren't going as well as hoped, too much pressure to rebound ASAP?  Too much information about what velo the scout from Team-X wanted to see in next outing?

Rather than just play baseball and enjoy it, there was just too much input and questions.

I'm not calling it a bad experience - I just doubt I'd do it again or at least do it the same way again.  And I'd definitely not do it any earlier.

Last edited by justbaseball
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

 I felt that sons experienced travel coaches provided just as much info as any advisor. It all becomes a distraction. For players so young to have those distractions, no bueno. 

Wondering though, is it for the kids or for the parents? 

I know advisors are telling parents that they will handle the inquiries etc.  Well if you have agreed you have essentially said, you are the man. Don't think that if you make a change he is going to be happy.

Follow the process. Concentrate on school, on getting better at your game, securing a solid college commitment and be prepared for draft year.

No one needs 3 years in advance for that. JMO

joemktgjoemktg5,000+ posts

FWIW: we made it clear to everyone that all communications would go through us (Mom and Dad, primarily Dad) and that we did not want joemktgson, his coaches, the high school, etc. to be burdened. Benefits: joemktgson was extricated from the periphery while all comms were centralized and coordinated.

Dad really does know best.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
joemktg posted:

FWIW: we made it clear to everyone that all communications would go through us (Mom and Dad, primarily Dad) and that we did not want joemktgson, his coaches, the high school, etc. to be burdened. Benefits: joemktgson was extricated from the periphery while all comms were centralized and coordinated.

Dad really does know best.

Good for you to handle your sons business and you drive the bus. If your son could  possibly become very rich, seek advice but you can do that his draft year.  

Entertain inquires and ask questions.  Because someone tells you your fresh or soph has sc tools doesnt mean you need an advisor. If you need advice for recruiting we will help with no strings attached. Do not let anyone tell you they will talk to a HC but your sons coaches.

 

Last edited by TPM

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