Any news (or rumors) about PG / PBR / etc. events for summer 2020?

James G posted:

I guess I'm confused. If this (by actual medical definition) a form of the flu, do we need waivers to do anything for the flu? Does the flu not kill thousands of people (both young and old), even with a vaccine, every year? Why would this be any different and require a waiver? Again it's simple risk, just like the flu and going to work, school, public areas. If you don't want to be exposed then don't. For those that want to, let them. 

I haven't been involved in other discussions about the pandemic, and I suspect this is not a good place to debate whether Covid19 is or is not a form of the flu or a simple risk like the flu.  No offense JamesG, but I'm going to pass on your questions.  I was just thinking out loud about what the practical implications might be for places like PG trying to figure out whether and how to host an event.

LuckyCat posted:

James G posted:

I guess I'm confused. If this (by actual medical definition) a form of the flu, do we need waivers to do anything for the flu? Does the flu not kill thousands of people (both young and old), even with a vaccine, every year? Why would this be any different and require a waiver? Again it's simple risk, just like the flu and going to work, school, public areas. If you don't want to be exposed then don't. For those that want to, let them. 

I haven't been involved in other discussions about the pandemic, and I suspect this is not a good place to debate whether Covid19 is or is not a form of the flu or a simple risk like the flu.  No offense JamesG, but I'm going to pass on your questions.  I was just thinking out loud about what the practical implications might be for places like PG trying to figure out whether and how to host an event.

All good, understood. I just hope rational people ask those type of questions before making decisions that alter our way of life (personal and the business side). 

James G, ---   True, we assume all sorts of risks, all the time.  Oversimplifying things (not because of my opinion of you or anyone else here, but because law has a way of making things tedious and complicated), tort liability occurs when someone is injured due to another person's negligence. 

"Negligence" can be generally defined as not doing what you reasonably should have done to prevent the accident in question.  That standard varies with circumstances.  I would not presume to predict how a suit over COVID-19 exposure would play out--much would depend on the facts and the laws in the relevant state.  But a plaintiff could potentially argue that by holding a tournament, an organizer represented that they took reasonable precautions against COVID.  If there were a cluster of infections traced to the tournament, then maybe the precautions weren't so reasonable.  (Google "res ipsa loquitur" if you want to go further down the doctrinal rabbit hole.)  Perhaps there should have been more sanitizing stations, fewer spectators, better screening of players who showed symptoms...  And maybe most important of all, if a claim is plausible enough to survive a motion to dismiss (early in the lawsuit, before things get really expensive), then a defendant may pay a settlement just to avoid the costs of litigation and the risk they will owe even more.

I'm not a plaintiffs' tort lawyer and I'm not defending the system.  There might never be a suit filed, or a court might toss a suit because of a waiver (or maybe not).  Lots of other outcomes are possible, too.  How serious is the risk?  You'd have to ask your lawyer to give you an answer specific to your situation.  

LuckyCat is more prudent than I am...   I teach law, so James G your question was kind of catnip for me (no pun intended).  But yeah, we should stick to baseball.

Good post Chico. Lots of businesses are probably going through similar situations. My wife's family owns a handful of gymnastics clubs around the country. They get sued for the craziest things. Sometimes they get dismissed, sometimes they don't. I can't see insurance companies being in a hurry to write policies to cover Covid claims. Especially without really knowing what the exposure is going to be for those claims.

I can understand the stress those who are committed yet feel. But I can’t imagine there being any amateur baseball this summer. Reopening doesn’t mean back to normal. It’s opening with precautions. Chico laid out everything I was going to post about the complications of playing baseball without possible virus spread. Then there’s the liability insurance companies might not cover due to a decision conflicting with an act of God. 

I would have liked to go to yesterday’s protest about shutting down Maine. But based on what I saw in other news clips I knew a majority of people wouldn’t following distancing rules (and they didn’t). Unfortunately, there are Bozos out there who think COVID is nothing but a hoax plot to bring down the country and/or defeat Trump. I’ve heard some dumb things said at these rallies (because the media wants the ignorant heard on the reopen side

A former college roommate/teammate and still friend became a Lt Colonel in the Army. He’s done four tours in Middle East hot spots. His view is life has casualties. Work on! It certainly conflicts with his view “war sucks.”

I think the comparison with the Flu may be apt, though.  If there is a major outbreak of the flu in a business that serves people who are susceptible to it, and they don't do anything, they could be liable.  So, it is a real concern, but if there are guidelines from the Federal and State governments that are followed closely, I would think that a business should be mostly protected.  Another thing to consider is that there may a law to limit liability over Covid19 eventually, if it becomes a major issue in getting things started back up.  I think that topic was covered in one of the press conferences.

GA person here.

Received an email this morning from a known/respected travel organization here in our area saying that their facility was reopening as of Friday, and they would be proceeding with practices. 

I anticipate that our son’s team will start with practices the weekend of May 9, if not sooner. 

Our first tourney was to be Memorial Day Weekend here in GA, and I think there is a solid chance it will go off. 

Prepster posted:

Social distancing? How do they intend to disinfect the ball in mid-flight as it passes from one player's hand to the next...to the next...?

"no, Blue, that wasn't vasoline...it was purell"

I’m all for opening cautiously. I just watched the GA governor validate opening tattoo parlors, gyms, hair salons and nail salons. These all violate the federal standards. I could only shake my head.

Personally, I would add sports where players share a ball and stand inches from each other in the same category. Good luck!

@Eokerholm posted:

We were going to drive down from NC (Team USA event The Weekend prior).

We’re driving from Austin,TX and not flying 

We are planning to do the same from Houston. We are supposed to be in Florida at the end of July/beginning of August for about a 10 day stretch (PG 15u World Series and PG Freshman All American Showcase).  Figured we would need to rent a car anyway to drive between the two events. So we decided it would be a better decision to just make that drive from Houston to Sanford.

I wonder how much pressure PG is under financially with zero income due to events shut down and the monthly payment on the $800M note for Hutto's construction on top of normal operating expenses.  Eventually it has to catch up to them.

PBR's new partnerships with Driveline, Trackman, Visual Edge , and Blast Motion (am I leaving any out?) And taking over Lake Point could really ratchet up the competition once events reopen.  Poised to reign?  Maybe.  But definitely solid steps to separate and improve their product.

both orgs have solid reasons for wanting to open as soon as possible.

I think PBR is the new PG.  PG is trying to play catch up with their partnerships, but a year without a main hub for WWBA and this virus, are putting PG behind.  We got an invite yesterday to a PG event June 6 in Alabama.  They seem to be trying to collect money.  In the south, things may come back faster than other areas.  Our Governor (TX) said on a radio show yesterday that we would be eating in restaurants within the first week of May.

@bandera posted:

I wonder how much pressure PG is under financially with zero income due to events shut down and the monthly payment on the $800M note for Hutto's construction on top of normal operating expenses.  Eventually it has to catch up to them.

PBR's new partnerships with Driveline, Trackman, Visual Edge , and Blast Motion (am I leaving any out?) And taking over Lake Point could really ratchet up the competition once events reopen.  Poised to reign?  Maybe.  But definitely solid steps to separate and improve their product.

both orgs have solid reasons for wanting to open as soon as possible.

I would be surprised if PG has any expenses related to the new HQ in Hutto.  The city is likely carrying the note through the construction process as they (the city) have been firing developers, hiring  a new one then suing the new one.....its been eventful and I am not sure they have turned a shovel yet.

We've seen a bunch of postponements in the last few days, with the Black Bear Classic in SC and the Tournament of Champions in Ohio moved back to August as of a few days ago. The travel program my 2021 plays for then had to choose between the two because the dates conflicted, and now they also conflict with the Showball showcase my son's slotted to attend in Long Island. It amazes me after all this careful planning how you just never know. This is going to be a real mess, but I think what I see is a mad sprint from August through October and the summer season giving way to a late summer/fall mayhem for kids looking to play in college. I just keep telling my kid, stay ready and keeping doing pens and lifting, your time will come. If that's August or Sept/Oct., or if you just need to get into the right fit school and try to walk on, just be ready. He is fortunate in that he took the SAT early and did well, but it's going to come down to one great day in front of the right coaches for him and then a quick decision if he gets an offer. I saw somewhere that PG is waiting to call its tournaments until 2 weeks out - and I'm torn on that. I guess they have to do what they have to do and we'll have to do the same. Anyone else think high academic schools might push back early decision deadlines or general application deadlines, which would then extend the window for kids to take the SATs, subject tests and also prolong the recruiting window for HA DIII and the Ivy's?

Some of the top 2023 teams in FL started Zoom meetings this week to go over schedules with the players. A few are very confident they will be playing the second week in June. Another coach of a prominent FL program said PG was moving a couple of their bigger events to August to avoid having to reschedule twice. 

Son (2022) starts team workouts/practices the weekend of the 15th. 

And with one of the probable school schedules here in GA being one that starts after Labor Day and ends in mid -June 2021, I think that what Terrible said re: events moving to Aug is correct. 

@BaseballDad72 posted:

Anyone else think high academic schools might push back early decision deadlines or general application deadlines, which would then extend the window for kids to take the SATs, subject tests and also prolong the recruiting window for HA DIII and the Ivy's?

Recruiting will be a mess this summer/fall anyway. But, a lot of HA schools are saying they won't require SAT/ACT for applicants next year (hs grad '21), so the testing dates won't matter:

https://www.insidehighered.com...-competitive-go-test

And the NCAA is also abolishing the SAT/ACT requirement for D1 for incoming freshmen:

https://www.usatoday.com/story...tandards/5152671002/

Well, that’s fair to most but thinking about my kid not sure that helps him at all. He busted it to take his SAT early and did very well. If all the HA schools waive the SAT, not sure where that puts the kids that took it and did well. Does their score noT matter? My kid is taking 5 APs this year and has not had real instruction for almost two months.  How are schools going to be able to compare potential admissions if some kids have scores and others don’t? Or if a student athlete decides not to take the SATs in the fall even though they are being offered but the schools waived them so no need? I think the proactive student athletes are going to get screwed by this decision. That doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do but these actions have unintended consequences just like giving back a year of eligibility. 

FWIW, we are at large travel team organization in Atlanta. Have not even begun discussion of live practices yet much less tournaments. 

@BaseballDad72 posted:

Well, that’s fair to most but thinking about my kid not sure that helps him at all. He busted it to take his SAT early and did very well. If all the HA schools waive the SAT, not sure where that puts the kids that took it and did well. Does their score noT matter? My kid is taking 5 APs this year and has not had real instruction for almost two months.  How are schools going to be able to compare potential admissions if some kids have scores and others don’t? Or if a student athlete decides not to take the SATs in the fall even though they are being offered but the schools waived them so no need? I think the proactive student athletes are going to get screwed by this decision. That doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do but these actions have unintended consequences just like giving back a year of eligibility. 

I agree the process is going to be strange.  (45 minute AP online AP exams?  Seriously?)  But IMO, for most applicants at top-tier HA schools a good test score is necessary, but not really a distinction.  That is, you might need at least a 33 or 34 ACT to be in the mix academically; but a 35 or 36 isn't going to distinguish you from others who also made the cutoff.  Once you are in the pool of qualified applicants, then it comes down to X-factors--an achievement that makes an applicant stand out in a crowd of very accomplished students, a connection to an alumnus or large donor, being 1st generation college or a member of some minority groups. 

Top schools have 5 or more applicants for every spot who have 99th percentile test scores.  I don't think going test optional will change things much except the for a relatively small handful of students who have great grades, took 8 or 10 APs, won a some major prize or achieved some important distinction, and couldn't raise their standardized test scores even with tutoring, multiple attempts at the test, etc.

For sure having a high SAT/ACT score is still going to help, it just won't be required.  Same with the AP classes - what is helpful is that the school counselor will be able to write that he took the most rigorous program at his school. 

I would assume that, just as in any year, any college coach is going to want to know that an athlete can be admitted to the school by whatever standards the school uses.  Shouldn't matter that admissions standards have changed, there will still be standards.  That will apply to anyone.

Not normal times, everyone knows that.

I wonder what PG will do if MLB decides to hold half their games in FL. 3 of the facilities they use on a regular basis would not be available. 

Sorry to drop another bomb on 2021/22/23s.  What do you think about the scouting in the fall?  College coaches missing the spring and having too many players coming in they will use every weekend they can to see what they have and especially if they get what they want which is more scrimmages in the fall.  i wonder how many will be able to be out recruiting versus working with what they have on campus.  I know recruiting is vital but for immediate success trying to figure out who you are going to keep on roster and who you are going to red shirt and who you are going to let go this fall will be priority #1.  If it was my son, I would beg the coach to pitch him on as many Sunday games as possible because I think more guys will be recruiting on Sundays.  JMO

That’s a great question PF. This is also going really jam up the showcase and tournaments making them compete for kids. Wonder if Showball is going to be able to guarantee nearly as many coaches as usual. 

Pbr cancelled all events through June and aren’t refunding the money.  Money paid can be used towards future events

@Dadof3 posted:

Pbr cancelled all events through June and aren’t refunding the money.  Money paid can be used towards furies events

That’s lousy. I would dispute the charges on whatever card I used (if you are not able to use the credit).  

@Dadof3 posted:

Pbr cancelled all events through June and aren’t refunding the money.  Money paid can be used towards furies events

Assume you are referring to events in your state. PBR GA hasn’t cancelled anything except their May events (thus far)., AFAIK. 

PBR Arizona announced today that their June events are still on as scheduled: https://twitter.com/PBRArizona...757009703034880?s=20

All of Ohio and I think the other was va or wv.  Glad to hear they are keeping ga open.

PG has some regional events scheduled around here still on for May.  I know those are franchises but glad they are being optimistic.  I saw a small tournament organization publish on FB that they would have tournaments starting weekend after Mother's Day.  Each team is only allowed 13 players, 2 coaches, and 25 fans.  Welcome to the new normal.  The question is now whether parents will let their kids go if only 25 fans total are allowed.  I read it and thought 1 parent is not getting to go unless they assumed 1 of the coaches is a dad.

Here is the weekly update from PG:

With some states starting to reopen under Phase 1, we remain shut down for the next week. We continue discussions with all facilities and health experts to ensure we are ready to go as soon as it is safe to start playing again. 

At this time, we are continuing to postpone events for the next week.  We continue the process of rescheduling and will announce the new PG schedule as soon as we possibly can. 

Note: It does appear that we will be playing before much longer.  All scheduled events will take place as they now appear with the PG WS, WWBA, BCS, Super25, and Youth Tournaments and Showcases. Please keep checking the PG website for further information regarding both makeups and regularly scheduled events.

We will soon be releasing our operational plan. We will be following all the necessary recommended guidelines. We not only plan to run the best events, we want to run the safest events for everyone involved.

@Dadof3 posted:

All of Ohio and I think the other was va or wv.  Glad to hear they are keeping ga open.

Most PBR events in Virginia are still on as of right now.  WV did have to cancel or postpone at least 1.

USA Baseball posted this for Western Team Championships in Phoenix:

You are right, it was the university of Charleston pbr event that we were supposed to go to that was cancelled 

Most of the big travel tournaments utilize high school fields. Will the schools/counties allow them to rent these fields, when they are not letting their own teams/ coaches use them?  I think the tournaments want to get started but it’s not gonna be easy and maybe much more limited??

I think they’ll definitely be limited, but probably just as much by the consumers. There are a lot of people not willing to travel and stay in hotels right now. It may result in some teams being forced to fold this summer. 

FL only has a few more weeks of school. Once that is over I can’t see any reason they shouldn’t rent the fields. The tournaments also need the main complexes to be cleared for use. Some are being used as testing sites and may not be available. 

VTool is one of the more prevalent summer ball promoters in Texas.  They released the attached statement addressing the potential access issues to fields on college and HS campuses.

I saw an update today on Prospect Wire's site stating they were told they most likely will not have access to the Mets facility they use for one of their main tournaments. The Mets told them they would either be doing spring training or would have all of their top minor league prospects there training due to the minor league season possibly being cancelled.

If this ends up being the case, Jupiter (Roger Dean), West Palm (Fit Team), and Ft. Myers (Jet Blue) will not be available. Ft. Myers still has a few complexes that may be able to hold a smaller scale tournament. 

PG just rescheduled a showcase from this weekend to June. It wasn’t a major showcase, but I think it’s significant because it was at a complex not being used for testing and is not an MLB spring training site. Either they couldn’t commit to criteria being required by the local government or they didn’t have enough participants to make it worth their while.