Are you a yeller?

The organization my son played for from ages 9-14 told parents that if your son is paying attention to you in the stands, he is not paying attention to the game on the field.  They also encouraged parents to be positive on the way home.  Each year, we had to sign a form agreeing to these rules.

ruralmom

As a parent, here is a simple self exam to test if you are out of line:

If your player makes a bad play, swing & miss, strikes out looking etc or in any respect fails on the field & then looks to you in the stands, YOU are out of line & subtracting from not only his performance, but the joy of his game.

You see it all the time, particularly at the younger ages. Little Johnny takes a strike down the middle & immediately looks over to Dad who yells, "let's go, swing the bat, come on!"

You don't see it as much at the older ages because all those "Little Johnnys" have in effect told Dad to shove it & moved on to other endeavors.

I'm thinking of the yellers I have known and I don't think any of them would rationalize their behavior as your commenters have. They just can't help themselves. But I never asked so can't be sure.

FWIW I'm not saying there is or isn't a correlation, but of these guys I can only recall only one who has a son that has done well playing past HS.

CaCO3Girl posted:

 

I was flabbergasted at the responses by three different parents, many of us were.  Won't these "yells" turn off any coach/scout/recruiter that could be watching? Aren't these yells counterproductive to furthering their kids baseball careers?

No. Surely recruiters see a kid that comes from strong, serious, baseball stock with a very knowledgeable parent that the may want to consider adding to their college coaching staff. 

roothog66 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

 

I was flabbergasted at the responses by three different parents, many of us were.  Won't these "yells" turn off any coach/scout/recruiter that could be watching? Aren't these yells counterproductive to furthering their kids baseball careers?

No. Surely recruiters see a kid that comes from strong, serious, baseball stock with a very knowledgeable parent that the may want to consider adding to their college coaching staff. 

LOL!  My response to the one guy was "What if there was a college coach there and he heard you yelling what to adjust, now that coach doesn't know if the kid knew what he was doing wrong or if he depends on you to tell him."....they kind of ignored that response.

completely agree might have to move out to the outfield under a tree and just enjoy the ride.  

Yelling at your kid on the field during the game doesn't do squat.  Most, especially older, don't pay attention.  If he gets lazy, I will give a "come on, lets go" but that's about it. 

As for the college coach in the stands, if the kid throws 90 you can yell all you want.  They have ear plugs.   

As a parent I didn't  yell and rarely cheered. I was always quiet and analyzing like a coach. I wasn't analyzing my kids. I was analyzing the game. I still find myself analyzing mechanics regardless of the level. If it's a kid's game I checking fielder readiness as well. I guess I'm curious how well coached is a team. 

As a coach I was more antimated with basketball. It's the nature of the sport. But I was calm in timeouts.  As a baseball head coach I was calm. Assistants handled issues during the game. The players said they knew they were headed for an assistant in the dugout if I was wearing the death stare. As an assistant I handled fixes calmly. 

During school basketball my son was standing on the sidelines with the ref waiting to throw the ball in. His travel coach, a woman, yelled at him from the stands — probably something about making a good pass or something he had messed up. Ref says to son "dude is that your mom?"

Son says to ref "nope, she's my coach. She's just like that."

Everyone involved thought it was funny — including my son who lost no time in telling us all (including the coach) about it. And stopped doing whatever it was she talked to him about.

I delegate all of my yelling in all sports to her. She's good at it and knows what he needs to hear. I pray.

I yelled at my kid. I'm not proud of it. There were times it was in support, or so I thought...2 strikes , last out or focus on turning two. I also yelled at my kid in the car when he screwed up and contributed to losing games for us in tourneys (that really mean nothing).

Today, I am thankful he still wants to include me in things relating to his baseball career and loves me regardless.

if I could say anything to anyone about this, I would tell you to yell in support of the good things, yell when your team scores, your kid hits a dinger , hits a walk off to win, turns two, snags a line drive or strikes out the side.

Shut up and listen when he wants to talk after a mistake or wait for him to bring it up or just forget about it until a teachable moment presents itself.

When son was 7, midway thru his first pitching machine year, the coach, a friend of mine, pulled me aside and told me to notice that my son looked at me after every swing, etc.  That caught my attention.  While a parent in the stands, I rarely made another comment to him out in public after that.

ps: I also rarely say a whole lot, even positive to any of his teammates, from the stands. I was always cautious that I would end up doing it for Johnny, Billy and Jose' but miss Hank & Jeremiah and then Hank & Jeremiah's parents would notice. I will clap, etc but was always cautious of doing saying much orally. Silly, maybe, but I am a bean counter and that's just how I am. 

CaCO3Girl to answer your question and I have said this before, coaches take notice of these things. 

This parental behavior can determine when choosing one recruit vs another. Coaches just don't like parents coaching from the stands.

Now me, I delegated my yelling to the umpires.

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl to answer your question and I have said this before, coaches take notice of these things. 

This parental behavior can determine when choosing one recruit vs another. Coaches just don't like parents coaching from the stands.

Now me, I delegated my yelling to the umpires.

 

Umpires? Oh, hell yeah.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I yelled at my kid. I'm not proud of it. There were times it was in support, or so I thought...2 strikes , last out or focus on turning two. I also yelled at my kid in the car when he screwed up and contributed to losing games for us in tourneys (that really mean nothing).

Today, I am thankful he still wants to include me in things relating to his baseball career and loves me regardless.

if I could say anything to anyone about this, I would tell you to yell in support of the good things, yell when your team scores, your kid hits a dinger , hits a walk off to win, turns two, snags a line drive or strikes out the side.

Shut up and listen when he wants to talk after a mistake or wait for him to bring it up or just forget about it until a teachable moment presents itself.

 

 

 

I'm guessing there are quite a few folks who read this and quietly thought about their relationship with their kid.  I have a younger kid playing and have learned to be silent.  I try not to judge other parents who are going through it for the first time but it sort of hurts when you see some kid thinking he just just disappointed his mom/dad by taking a third strike when he thought is was well outside the zone.

The whole "kid looks up into the stands" gets to me.  I think I have gained some knowledge from the first go round, but talking to these parents who are in their first rodeo is difficult to say the least.

RedFishFool posted:

When son was 7, midway thru his first pitching machine year, the coach, a friend of mine, pulled me aside and told me to notice that my son looked at me after every swing, etc.  That caught my attention.  While a parent in the stands, I rarely made another comment to him out in public after that.

ps: I also rarely say a whole lot, even positive to any of his teammates, from the stands. I was always cautious that I would end up doing it for Johnny, Billy and Jose' but miss Hank & Jeremiah and then Hank & Jeremiah's parents would notice. I will clap, etc but was always cautious of doing saying much orally. Silly, maybe, but I am a bean counter and that's just how I am. 

Glad I'm not the only one.  I'll cheer for a great hit or catch but for the most part I'm very quiet for the exact same reason.

I'll admit I probably yelled a bit when our son was younger, but as time went on, I learned to cheer the team and each individual player on.  Son told me that he really didn't hear me anyway. 

A good friend of mine who's son is the same age as mine would sit behind the backstop (his son was a catcher) and while he didn't yell, there was a constant chatter (coaching) coming from him the entire game.

Curious question in light of the obvious mockery of yelling parents in this thread.  Do you hold the same dim view of the veined necked screamer in the dugout or 3rd base box that calls himself "Coach"?

NO. I AM NOT!!!

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I yelled at my kid. I'm not proud of it. There were times it was in support, or so I thought...2 strikes , last out or focus on turning two. I also yelled at my kid in the car when he screwed up and contributed to losing games for us in tourneys (that really mean nothing).

Today, I am thankful he still wants to include me in things relating to his baseball career and loves me regardless.

if I could say anything to anyone about this, I would tell you to yell in support of the good things, yell when your team scores, your kid hits a dinger , hits a walk off to win, turns two, snags a line drive or strikes out the side.

Shut up and listen when he wants to talk after a mistake or wait for him to bring it up or just forget about it until a teachable moment presents itself.

 

 

 

Took me a season or two to become the guy that hung on the fence half way to the foul pole and said very little. Held all comments until after the game.  When it went well - played good today. When it didn't - tough going huh?  Then had to wait until he was ready.  The most satisfying times came when he would say - Can you take me to the cage?  $10 and 1/2 hour of just laying the wood could make him feel better and usually play better.   That look of purpose and satisfaction he had when his confidence returned was priceless.  

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl to answer your question and I have said this before, coaches take notice of these things. 

This parental behavior can determine when choosing one recruit vs another. Coaches just don't like parents coaching from the stands.

Now me, I delegated my yelling to the umpires.

 

I had a friend who's son played on the same travel team and he was notorious for being argumentative with the umps, nothing too loud or extreme just constant. We joke about it to this day. I became oddly more quiet as my son got older, became a PO, pitched more games and rarely ever yelled at the umps. 

Shoveit4Ks posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl to answer your question and I have said this before, coaches take notice of these things. 

This parental behavior can determine when choosing one recruit vs another. Coaches just don't like parents coaching from the stands.

Now me, I delegated my yelling to the umpires.

 

I had a friend who's son played on the same travel team and he was notorious for being argumentative with the umps, nothing too loud or extreme just constant. We joke about it to this day. I became oddly more quiet as my son got older, became a PO, pitched more games and rarely ever yelled at the umps. 

I really wasn't that bad, and I never sat behind the backstop either, it came from wherever I was. You must have heard me at one point while at Clemson, but didn't realize it was me, because I just go bonkers when there is a really bad call for anyone.

You want to have some serious fun though, head to the Cajun Cafe/ cheap seats before Ryley leaves Clemson and listen to them talk to the outfielders. We sat back there a few times in 2016 while at the games.

THAT is an experience of a lifetime.

#no filter #clemsonfamily

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl to answer your question and I have said this before, coaches take notice of these things. 

This parental behavior can determine when choosing one recruit vs another. Coaches just don't like parents coaching from the stands.

Now me, I delegated my yelling to the umpires.

 

My wife did too...  She called it, 'supervising umpires.'  

Truth is, I yelled at my kids sometimes.  Mostly as a coach - as a fan I didn't say much.  Good things...and some critical things.  Son didn't cover 1B from pitcher mound for the 833rd time on a grounder to first, I yelled at him.  Maybe the reality was I shoulda found a different way, given that it took 800-some times to get it right.  OTOH, when he got to HS and did the basic things the coaches commented about how much better coached he was too.

And yes, on occasion, I got on 'em after a game on the ride home.  Right thing to do?  Nope, almost surely not - doubt I'd do it today, but I did.

And after all of that, my kids still call every week.  They come home on Holidays and they mention their dad (and mom) in interviews as a big reason they got where they got.  I recently heard an interview on the radio of our younger son's double-A pitching coach - they asked him why is this 5-10, 89 mph RHP having so much success at double-A.  The coach's response was, 'this kid is so competitive, its off the charts - not sure how he got this way, but his parents and his brothers probably instilled that confidence and that competitiveness in him.'

So I guess we didn't screw it all up.  Yes, there can be too much yelling, too much berating parents.   My sons are good young men - I don't think I overdid it...at least not too much.

IMO, this isn't black and white.  Find the balance.

During the game: never. Even while I was coaching. As it is I'm fairly loud, but never anything negative.

During practice when it was just the two of us: we'd get into each other. Not often, but when we did, there were many f-bombs exchanged both ways.

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

justbaseball posted:

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

Can we agree that:

-a coach yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat is very different than a parent yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat?

-a coach yelling at a kid for letting the ball go through his legs is different than a parent doing it?

-a coach yelling at a kid while pitching to get back on his line, or keep his elbow up, is different than a parent yelling it?

I'm not opposed to yelling, I don't think it's going to "hurt" his feelings, I just don't think it's the parents place to do it.

justbaseball posted:

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

Oh yeah.  It happens.  More like getting in your face than yelling these days. NCAA has rules on what you can and you cannot say.  One of the head coaches in the sunshine state conference was overheard by a parent in the stands cursing out a player, went to the AD. Second infraction, he was gone the next day. Coaches need to be careful of what they say also.

Sully used to leave notes taped onto their lockers, David said looking back it was funny, wasn't at the time. That guy always got he most out of his players.  Then there are the Joe Maddons of the world, they just make it fun. That seems to be the new norm these days.

In high A, AA son and his pitching coach, Dennis Martinez exchanged many words during mound time. He learned so much from him, more than just curse words in spanish for sure!!!

CaCO3Girl posted:

Can we agree that:

-a coach yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat is very different than a parent yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat?

-a coach yelling at a kid for letting the ball go through his legs is different than a parent doing it?

-a coach yelling at a kid while pitching to get back on his line, or keep his elbow up, is different than a parent yelling it?

I'm not opposed to yelling, I don't think it's going to "hurt" his feelings, I just don't think it's the parents place to do it.

I don't think so - not universally.  They are all different and different based on the situation.  Every one of them can be bad...or good.  And it may depend on the player too.

One of our sons reacts very well to being yelled at - kinda turns it into a 'I'll show that SOB.'  The other one, not so good.  His college coach finally figured that out and got much better results.  I did too...long before the college coach.

This is one of those things - 'I know a bad yell when I see it.'  I just don't see a blanket guideline about it.

BTW, as a coach and as a parent, I probably yelled at my own kids about every one of those things in your list.  Wasn't always the right thing to do and I'd be a little different today than I was at 35 - but as best as I can tell, no long term damage - actually, quite the opposite.

CaCO3Girl posted:

justbaseball posted:

Another thought:  Unless they play for a program I've never heard of, it is a guarantee they will get yelled at in college.  During games, during an AB, in a mound visit, after games, during practice.

I'm not advocating practicing getting yelled at, I'm just saying whether you ever do it or not, they will be yelled at in college.

Pro ball?  Completely different.

Can we agree that:

-a coach yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat is very different than a parent yelling instructions at a kid during an at bat?

-a coach yelling at a kid for letting the ball go through his legs is different than a parent doing it?

-a coach yelling at a kid while pitching to get back on his line, or keep his elbow up, is different than a parent yelling it?

I'm not opposed to yelling, I don't think it's going to "hurt" his feelings, I just don't think it's the parents place to do it.

Its NEVER appropriate to yell or chastise a player while on the field, never. It's a learning experience, a teachable moment and should be addressed when the player gets into the dugout.

Raising your voice to instruct a player is different than yelling and chastising.

Heard a clip from Nick Saban while driving to work this morning.  He seemed to indicate, as has been pointed out here, that when he provides correction/teaching, that means he is interested in the kid getting better.  Contrast that with no correction/teaching and the inference is that the coaches no longer care about the kid's development.  He went on to differentiate between correction/teaching and calling out a kid for lack of effort - says lack of effort is within the control of the kid and that is a decision the kid makes.  Also said not knowing what to do (not being prepared) will get you called out - again the kid's decision to come to practice not prepared.  Not sure the entire coaching staff has this approach, but it certainly sounded good.

My younger son (11yo) played some catcher this past summer.  While I may have provide some "encouragement" that he needed to try harder to block everything, I tried to remain silent when he tried and failed.  Conversely, had to yell at him once when he abandoned home plate, presumably backing up third base (?).  He had a habit of picking up bats and walking away from home plate while ball was still in play.  We had talked about this before that he needs to remain in the game at all times, especially if he wants to play catcher, and doubly when runners are on base.  When he "backed up third" and the throw got past everyone - and runner scored - I had to yell some.  He knew he was not supposed to abandon hope plate, but got caught up in the action.  I sort of felt a brief "yell" would help finally cement this concept in his developing brain.  When he would catch after that, I would remind him "don't leave home" and he would simply smile.  

During the game, let the kids play. They need to figure out how to play: think ahead, anticipate, make their own choices, they will learn what works and what does not.  Otherwise they are at the mercy of listening to everyone shouting to them to do something. They get tentative, look at their parents between plays, wait for the coach to tell them what to do. Parents time to play in the game is long gone. Let the kids play their game. Instruct and coach in between gametime or at practice. Wiser, smarter, experienced kids playing the game is the goal, they will progress and get better. And really, is the advice, shouting, coaching from the stands any good? Just go to a game 10u-14u and listen to all the stuff being said, it's embarrassing to think it is helpful.

Coaches are not always correct, yelling or not.  What do you expect to occur when the player calmly responds to an abusive incorrect coach, with his opinion? 

People change, we learn.  Kids grow up.  Parents do too.  I coached my kid at younger ages, did yell at him as a parent during games.  Tried not to, felt stupid when I did, but still did it.  It changed when he was eleven. I was behind the home plate fence, son took a third strike.  As he turned and started his walk back to the dugout, I yelled "SWING THE BAT!!" rather loudly.  He stop, turned and stared at me for what felt like a minute.  I didn't see a little boy staring back at me.  I saw someone much older.

Stopped the "car interview and corrections" back at about the same time.  Something I read on this board and heard other places.  "What was the worst part about playing sports as a kid?" ..."The ride home."  I don't talk about the game on the ride home.  Nothing other than "Good game/that was a close one/etc."  If I give him the space, he will start talking about the game, what he did right, what he did wrong, what he saw and what he was thinking.

My son has a very low heart rate, always has.  I can loose my cool, start yelling at him for something stupid he does (letting muddy dogs run through the house, not cleaning up, not being "responsible") and he just stands there and waits me out.  Never gets worked up, no emotions, will talk calmly and rationally to me while I yell.  If it bothers him, he doesn't let it show.

Son takes his driver's test today.  Another turning point.  Glad I changed when I did, because life's gears are about to turn in a big way once again.  Car rides are about over.

2forU posted:

Coaches are not always correct, yelling or not.  What do you expect to occur when the player calmly responds to an abusive incorrect coach, with his opinion? 

This has gotten a bit off track. But I will respond.

What do you consider incorrect and abusive? 

Last night my son and I were watching a LL World Series playoff game, he turned to me and said, "if you ever yelled at me like some of these parents do I would have told you off and quit playing". Guess I'm not much of a yelled. 

Not saying it was the best way, but in many years of coaching I never once yelled at a player during a game. Practice was different.

I always wanted the players to be as comfortable as possible.  Never wanted to embarrass a player in front of a crowd. The game is full of pressure, why add more pressure by yelling at a player.  I'm totally convinced that players perform best when they are comfortable.  Yelling or screaming at someone doesn't make them more comfortable. 

Of course, this approach takes a lot of preparation.  Can't expect players to do the right thing unless they have been taught and trained to do the right thing.  Even then, people make mistakes.  I only wanted players to know they made a mistake.  I could calmly ask them in the dugout, what happened on that play?  They should know the right answer. 

I truly like the professional approach to coaching, even if coaching amateurs.

I will say, I know many great coaches that operate much differently.   I don't think my way or their way is the only way.  I think the one thing successful coaches have in common is knowing their players.  Knowing how to get the most out of every individual.  Knowing that you need to treat some players different than others in order to accomplish that.  I suppose there are players who actually perform better when you embarrass them in front of a crowd.  Guess I just haven't run across one yet. 

PGStaff posted:

Not saying it was the best way, but in many years of coaching I never once yelled at a player during a game. Practice was different.

I always wanted the players to be as comfortable as possible.  Never wanted to embarrass a player in front of a crowd. The game is full of pressure, why add more pressure by yelling at a player.  I'm totally convinced that players perform best when they are comfortable.  Yelling or screaming at someone doesn't make them more comfortable. 

Of course, this approach takes a lot of preparation.  Can't expect players to do the right thing unless they have been taught and trained to do the right thing.  Even then, people make mistakes.  I only wanted players to know they made a mistake.  I could calmly ask them in the dugout, what happened on that play?  They should know the right answer. 

I truly like the professional approach to coaching, even if coaching amateurs.

I will say, I know many great coaches that operate much differently.   I don't think my way or their way is the only way.  I think the one thing successful coaches have in common is knowing their players.  Knowing how to get the most out of every individual.  Knowing that you need to treat some players different than others in order to accomplish that.  I suppose there are players who actually perform better when you embarrass them in front of a crowd.  Guess I just haven't run across one yet. 

My approach was similar, PGStaff!

We did a lot more coaching, teaching and yelling (mostly for goofing off) in practice than the game. I think the older kids get, the less coaches should talk during the game, especially when they're in the batter's box. I'm not saying that coaches shouldn't instruct at all during the game but I believe in more encouragement than instruction. Finding the right balance and more importantly, what type of coaching each kid responds to best is the key. 

Great post PG!

My college playing sons do not perform best when yelled at.  They've made that pretty clear to me!

Saw a D1 HC dress down a Senior reliever at a game.  Lots of F bombs.  The kid did not perform and then ultimately broke down crying on the mound.  It was terrible to watch.

I strongly encourage prospective college players and their families to get references from current and former players of the schools they're interested in.  Ideally get to some games and practices too.  How coaches behave in the recruiting dance when presumably everyone is on their best behavior can be very different from how things go once a player is part of a program.

The vast majority of parents who are over the top on this issue do not even realize what they are doing. They are obviously well intentioned. They see & hear others doing the same & jump right in. It's almost like a reflex.

I have had several conversations with some of these parents after I felt comfortable enough with approaching the subject. The results have varied but on 2 occasions I have had the Mom of the offending Dad almost tackle me with a crying embrace thanking me. 

The Mom more often sees the pain of the reprimand & the Dad tends to see only the failure.

Steve A. posted:

 

The Mom more often sees the pain of the reprimand & the Dad tends to see only the failure.

Good comment. 

I have heard/read psychologists say that the point above is key.  Dad has a role, Mom another in some things.  That doesn't mean Dad's role is to yell.  Just maybe dads are a little tougher on sons in particular, moms are the soft landing - that is good!  That tension you outline above, so long as not out of control, is needed.

My wife tends to be tougher on our daughters than me....just another angle.

(BTW, I wasn't saying above its ok to yell - just that I did a few times (never about a physical mistake), and things worked out ok - so I'm not ready to label parents who do as bad people.  Some are, some aren't.  And yes, I should've not yelled some of the times that I did).