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The National League should add the DH, or the American League should get rid of the DH. The umpires should be MLB umpires. Period.
Look at the NFL. Same rules. Same officials. Same game.
I've had baseball traditionalists reference the Knickerbocker Rules on me. Remember, those rules said that a batted ball caught on the fly, or after one bounce, was an out. So, I don't want to hear about 'tradition'. Baseball can change, again.
Look at the NFL. Same rules. Same officials. Same game.
I've had baseball traditionalists reference the Knickerbocker Rules on me. Remember, those rules said that a batted ball caught on the fly, or after one bounce, was an out. So, I don't want to hear about 'tradition'. Baseball can change, again.
This has been a pretty big story here in Seattle. Larry Stone of the Seattle Times has been all over it. I imagine it is a pretty big deal in Houston, too, where the word is fans are ****ed.
For the Mariners (and the rest of the AL West) it means the end of the advantage they've enjoyed for quite some time - only needing to beat three teams in the standings to make the playoffs!
I am definitely for realignment to equalize the divisions, but not sure this was the best plan. I would've put the Diamondbacks in the AL West instead (closer to 3 out of the four original AL West teams, lot less history in the NL than the Astros) but MLB had no leverage over the D'Backs along the lines of what they had with Crane and the Astros.
Better than doing nothing, I guess.
For the Mariners (and the rest of the AL West) it means the end of the advantage they've enjoyed for quite some time - only needing to beat three teams in the standings to make the playoffs!
I am definitely for realignment to equalize the divisions, but not sure this was the best plan. I would've put the Diamondbacks in the AL West instead (closer to 3 out of the four original AL West teams, lot less history in the NL than the Astros) but MLB had no leverage over the D'Backs along the lines of what they had with Crane and the Astros.
Better than doing nothing, I guess.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
"The National League should add the DH, or the American League should get rid of the DH."
With you on that one, AntzDad. And not reconciling the rules after realignment will be more noticeable, because with six divisions of 5 teams, necessarily there will be interleague games going on all year.
As my handle implies, I have a bit of a soft spot for the DH. I'm pretty sure Edgar would have stayed a few more years at 3B and then moved to 1B, and still been one helluva player, but the thought that I might not have been able to see a player with that sweet a swing (M's always had a sweet swing from both sides: from the left, first Griffey and then Olerud, and from the right, there was always Edgar) makes me sad. I appreciate the increased strategy of the NL game, but don't particularly enjoy watching pitchers hit or sacrifice. And...most importantly, the DH has been around now for almost 40 years, and pretty much every level of amateur and professional baseball except the National League uses the rule. I don't think it is going anywhere....
The all or none DH wouldn't bother me either way, but I don't think it's fair that (pretty much non-hitting) AL pitchers are forced to bat in the most important games of the year- The World Series.
I'm a long time Astros fan, and I'm unhappy with the change. Lot of good memories during the Biggio/Bagwell years. It may not have been Yankees/Sox level of rivalries, but games against the Cards, and some years the Braves, had special significance. And I'll never forget attending the World Series at Minute Maid.
The fact that the new owner gets a price reduction indicates that it is not great for the franchise. It is a disappointing ending to the Drayton McLean ownership era.
The fact that the new owner gets a price reduction indicates that it is not great for the franchise. It is a disappointing ending to the Drayton McLean ownership era.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
The National League should add the DH, or the American League should get rid of the DH. The umpires should be MLB umpires. Period.
The umpires have been MLB umpires instead of NL and AL umpires for quite some time. There is one set of rules in Major League Baseball.
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AntzDad:
And not reconciling the rules after realignment will be more noticeable, because with six divisions of 5 teams, necessarily there will be interleague games going on all year.
How do you reconcile one set of rules? The rule book is the same for both leagues.
The DH appears in all copies of the Official Rule Book as an option available to any professional league. It does not take a change in rules to make use of the DH consistent between the leagues...just a vote by one to utilize it or a voted by the other to not utilize it.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The umpires have been MLB umpires instead of NL and AL umpires for quite some time. There is one set of rules in Major League Baseball.
OK, I found this in a paper about umpire scheduling. "The most critical change occurred in 2000 when two MLB leagues combined their umpires, creating a common umpire pool." (My friend lives next-door to Richie Phillips...)
Maybe, the rules are the same for both leagues, but they don't play the game the same way. That is my point.
quote:Originally posted by twotex:
I'm a long time Astros fan, and I'm unhappy with the change. Lot of good memories during the Biggio/Bagwell years. It may not have been Yankees/Sox level of rivalries, but games against the Cards, and some years the Braves, had special significance. And I'll never forget attending the World Series at Minute Maid.
The fact that the new owner gets a price reduction indicates that it is not great for the franchise. It is a disappointing ending to the Drayton McLean ownership era.
As a life-long Cardinals fan, I, too enjoyed the rivalry with the Astros. The "killer bees" were awesome. Biggio, Bagwell, Bell, Berkman, Beltran and even Sean Berry were at one time members of that group. Biggio is one of my all-time favorite players. He played the game the right way.
And I love that we now have Berkman. That guy can hit! He looks like he's half asleep up there, but he just squares it up and whacks it.
I'm hopeful that Jimmy Crane will be able to turn the thing around and please the Astros fans. I played softball with him in the years after our college careers were over. He had an absolute cannon. As you may have read, Crane was a very good pitcher at Central Missouri State, and if not for injury, may have played professionally.
He is a pretty aggressive guy who enjoys life, but I know him also to be a very generous person. He cares what people think of him, and he is a baseball traditionalist.
Good Luck to the 'Stros!
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
For the Mariners (and the rest of the AL West) it means the end of the advantage they've enjoyed for quite some time - only needing to beat three teams in the standings to make the playoffs!
Um, yeah, Seattle really used that to their advantage. Even the Cubs have been in the postseason more in the last 35 years.
Agree that NL and AL rules need to be the same. I say get rid of DH. I think all pitchers should hit. They are players and are expected to field their positions - so why not hit. Yes some are better than others - but that is true of all position players. Just my opinion.
gitnby,
As a NL Central fan, I was pulling for the Cards in the WS.
There are a few Cardinals/Astros games which stick out in my mind.
Ozzie Smith's last game agains the Astros in Houston. The Astros gave him a pair of red cowboy boots. I don't know why that stuck with me.
The playoff game where Pujols hit the bomb off of Lidge. I have never seen a baseball explode off a bat like that.
I believe Biggio closed out his career against the Cards, but I had tears in my eyes the whole game so I'm not sure.
It was a great rivalry, with games played the right way by both teams for decades.
I'm glad to see Berkman doing so well in red. He's a great player and a funny guy. I like the way he calls it like he sees it, no matter what.
I may have to find a way to get to an Astros/Cards game next year.
As a NL Central fan, I was pulling for the Cards in the WS.
There are a few Cardinals/Astros games which stick out in my mind.
Ozzie Smith's last game agains the Astros in Houston. The Astros gave him a pair of red cowboy boots. I don't know why that stuck with me.
The playoff game where Pujols hit the bomb off of Lidge. I have never seen a baseball explode off a bat like that.
I believe Biggio closed out his career against the Cards, but I had tears in my eyes the whole game so I'm not sure.
It was a great rivalry, with games played the right way by both teams for decades.
I'm glad to see Berkman doing so well in red. He's a great player and a funny guy. I like the way he calls it like he sees it, no matter what.
I may have to find a way to get to an Astros/Cards game next year.
I think instead of moving a team from the NL to the AL they should have just expanded the AL to make it balanced.
Eliminate all inter-league play and forget about the one game wild card shoot-out that they created. the Wild card team is already at a disaddvantage with home field status, now they have to throw the ace to get into the playoff and if they win they will go to the #2 for game 1.
Eliminate all inter-league play and forget about the one game wild card shoot-out that they created. the Wild card team is already at a disaddvantage with home field status, now they have to throw the ace to get into the playoff and if they win they will go to the #2 for game 1.
At least they'll now have to FIGHT to be in the basement!
quote:Originally posted by twotex:
gitnby,
The playoff game where Pujols hit the bomb off of Lidge. I have never seen a baseball explode off a bat like that.
How about the rockin' crowd that fell absolutely silent the second that ball left his bat?
quote:Originally posted by biggerpapi:quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
For the Mariners (and the rest of the AL West) it means the end of the advantage they've enjoyed for quite some time - only needing to beat three teams in the standings to make the playoffs!
Um, yeah, Seattle really used that to their advantage. Even the Cubs have been in the postseason more in the last 35 years.
I didn't say they had used it to their advantage, just that it was an advantage.
Geez, between the guy who wants to pick apart my use of the word "reconcile" in relation to making the rules relating to the DH the same league to league (a point that was plainly obvious in context, and which you really have to work hard to find something to pick at) and now you ridiculing the use of the word "advantage" (which it plainly is) to poke fun of my Mariners...tough crowd.
I'll engage on this, though: I don't know that it is fair to compare the FIRST 35 years of a club's history with the last 35 years of a club with a 136-year history. The Cubs (or more correctly, the franchise now known as the Cubs) went the first 30 years (1876-1905) of their existence without a playoff appearance, and had another 38-year playoff drought (1946-1983). And relatively speaking, the Mariners (4 apperances in 35 years, 11.43%) and the Cubs (16 appearances in 136 years, 11.76%) have been about equally futile.
The Mariners history is not pretty, for sure, but I'm not sure Cubs fans have a lot of reason to feel superior....
Edgar,
the "nit picking" and arguing about one nuance or the other, intensifies here during the baseball off-season. Boredom sets in, blood pressure rises and tempers flare.
Don't take it personal, the pleasantries return in the Spring!
By the way, I can't think of a right-handed hitter ever that owned a "sweeter swing" than Edgar's! There might be some "pickers" on that comment. lol
the "nit picking" and arguing about one nuance or the other, intensifies here during the baseball off-season. Boredom sets in, blood pressure rises and tempers flare.
Don't take it personal, the pleasantries return in the Spring!
By the way, I can't think of a right-handed hitter ever that owned a "sweeter swing" than Edgar's! There might be some "pickers" on that comment. lol
Prime9, Joe DiMaggio had a pretty sweet swing! 
As a long time Astro fan and somewhat more of a follower now, I am kind of excited to see if a rivalry truly develops with the Rangers, when the Stros get good again. Could be awhile.
As a long time Astro fan and somewhat more of a follower now, I am kind of excited to see if a rivalry truly develops with the Rangers, when the Stros get good again. Could be awhile.
Wasn't nit-picking or arguing. Just having fun.
Prime9 is right, it gets awfully boring here this time of year.
I'll feel better when I get home tonight and can watch MLB Network's Prime 9 where they'll feature the "all-time 9 non-World Series players."
You should watch it too, I'm sure Edgar will be on it!
Sorry, couldn't resist!
Prime9 is right, it gets awfully boring here this time of year.
I'll feel better when I get home tonight and can watch MLB Network's Prime 9 where they'll feature the "all-time 9 non-World Series players."
You should watch it too, I'm sure Edgar will be on it!
Sorry, couldn't resist!
quote:Originally posted by Prime9:
By the way, I can't think of a right-handed hitter ever that owned a "sweeter swing" than Edgar's! There might be some "pickers" on that comment. lol
Don't get me started on Edgar, I'll never stop! He is, as is almost assured given his quiet, low-key nature, a very underappreciated player! It bugs me every year about this time when HoF voters start saying that Edgar doesn't have the counting stats for Cooperstown (as if "magic numbers" should even really be used), when in fact Edgar is in the Top 100 all-time (currently #80, in fact) in Times on Base (TOB), and #30 all time among RH hitters. And he did that in far fewer PA than almost all of those 100, while making far fewer outs. I did a study of the Top 100 TOB hitters after the 2010 season, and at that time Edgar was 15th in the ratio of TOB/Outs Made (4th RH hitter, behind only Hornsby, Foxx, and Frank Thomas) - to me, kind of a hitter's basic purpose, get on base and avoid making outs - and 26th in the ratio of Total Bases/Outs Made (12th RH hitter). But...I digress.
He did have a sweet swing, and as anybody who watched MLB Networks' 20 Greatest Games series last year, you know how much respect he got from other players and pitchers, because there simply wasn't any one way to get him out - he could hit whatever the pitcher gave him, and if they didn't throw him strikes, he wouldn't swing.
Which reminds me of a story: I have been involved as a minority owner and board member for a small local brewery and brewpub here in Seattle for years, and in Edgar's retirement, we've hosted events for his foundation (which raises money to fund scholarships for disadvantaged kids to become teachers, with incentives to return to disadvantaged areas) and I've gotten to know him a bit.
A couple of years ago, I went in on an auction item with some baseball friends and neighbors for a BP session for our kids with Edgar. Really first class - the kids had their own nameplates in the Safeco locker room, the whole bit. My son was only about a week to ten days out of a cast for a severely broken wrist when this happened, but overall he still swung the bat pretty well, except he was having more trouble than usual getting on top of the high pitch.
Edgar, in that inimitable soft spoken tone and Puerto Rican accent, was advising my son to start with his hands higher if he wants to hit that pitch, but then added, with a slight smile and a twinkle in his eye "Or, just don't swing at that pitch."
Easy for you to say, Gar.
quote:"The "nit picking" and arguing about one nuance or the other, intensifies here during the baseball off-season. Boredom sets in, blood pressure rises and tempers flare. Don't take it personal, the pleasantries return in the Spring!
I didn't, and I won't - but I'll add that as about the 1000th item on my list of reasons why I can't wait for Spring!
quote:
Originally posted by twotex:
gitnby,
The playoff game where Pujols hit the bomb off of Lidge. I have never seen a baseball explode off a bat like that.
How about the rockin' crowd that fell absolutely silent the second that ball left his bat?
-------------------------------------------
Sucked the air out of the entire ball park.
I love the story about the team flight to St. Louis. Brad Ausmus is reported to have looked at Lidge when they were 30000 feet up, and said "hey, isn't that Pujols' homerun ball we just passed?"
Of course we know the next night the Astros clinched in St. Louis, and the rocking House of Cards got quiet.
Originally posted by twotex:
gitnby,
The playoff game where Pujols hit the bomb off of Lidge. I have never seen a baseball explode off a bat like that.
How about the rockin' crowd that fell absolutely silent the second that ball left his bat?
-------------------------------------------
Sucked the air out of the entire ball park.
I love the story about the team flight to St. Louis. Brad Ausmus is reported to have looked at Lidge when they were 30000 feet up, and said "hey, isn't that Pujols' homerun ball we just passed?"
Of course we know the next night the Astros clinched in St. Louis, and the rocking House of Cards got quiet.
Some people have a problem with Edgar Martinez being in the Hall of Fame because he was a DH most of his ML career, but my thinking is that it is a bonified position in the American League and has been for over thirty years. Just as I feel about closers, I feel that probably only the very best examples of the two(closers and DH's) should be in the Hall of Fame. Mariano Rivera and Edgar Martinez are the two I would start with and I would probably be EXTREMELY strict on the rest since most closers are failed starters and many great starters could probably have put up huge save numbers if they were converted to closers. Truthfully it would take an Edgar Martinez's career with some of the numbers mentioned by EdgarFan for me to let in the Hall as a DH. In my book, even an excellent hitter like Harold Baines doesn't quite make it. Same thing with closers--Mariano, Gossage and Eckersley make it but really few if any others to this point. One freak case might be Smoltz with his COMBINATION of wins and saves.
Since this started as an Astros thread, I will attempt to dazzle the readers with a connection between the last post and the first.
Octavio Dotel. When he first came to the Astros he was a starter, then set up, then became a closer - I believe this was after Lidge imploded the season following the Pujols blast, but not sure. As I recall Dotel carped about it at the time, but more senior pitchers told him it would be good for his career in the long run.
Reminds me of some lyrics from a country song. "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was."
No HOF angle, but it was the best I could do on a connection.
Octavio Dotel. When he first came to the Astros he was a starter, then set up, then became a closer - I believe this was after Lidge imploded the season following the Pujols blast, but not sure. As I recall Dotel carped about it at the time, but more senior pitchers told him it would be good for his career in the long run.
Reminds me of some lyrics from a country song. "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was."
No HOF angle, but it was the best I could do on a connection.
Not to derail this from the original topic, but 15 teams in each league means interleague games all season long.
I haven't heard the details on the schedule yet to see if this change increases the total number of interleague games or just spreads them out over the whole season, but I was hoping for less interleague games...
I haven't heard the details on the schedule yet to see if this change increases the total number of interleague games or just spreads them out over the whole season, but I was hoping for less interleague games...
reportedly the inter league play will go thruto the end of the season
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
The umpires have been MLB umpires instead of NL and AL umpires for quite some time. There is one set of rules in Major League Baseball.
OK, I found this in a paper about umpire scheduling. "The most critical change occurred in 2000 when two MLB leagues combined their umpires, creating a common umpire pool." (My friend lives next-door to Richie Phillips...)
Maybe, the rules are the same for both leagues, but they don't play the game the same way. That is my point.
Correct, the umpires were merged nearly 13 years ago. However, there is a danger now of them becoming somewhat regionalized to save travel costs.
The only difference between the leagues is that although both are allowed to use the DH, only one chooses to do so each year.
Jimmy whats your feeling on the DH at the professional level?
quote:However, there is a danger now of them becoming somewhat regionalized to save travel costs.
Doesn't sound like a good idea..
I have agree with what a lot of the former Astros mentioned and that the Brewers were an AL Team at the onset and should be returned to the AL. Personally, for me, it will be hard to think of the Astros as an AL Team and I personally enjoyed the Astros/Cardinals games.