no-e2:
I'll ask you two questions:
1. If it was so bad, why did your son stay?
2. Would the team have otherwise existed without this Dad coaching?
I just don't buy your disparaging remarks or others like it. Someone has to coach for teams like this to flourish. Most Dad's I know give it there best effort. And even when their sons play more than their ability should allow, it is still only one position out of nine and many other kids benefit.
My suggestion is if you can make it better, then do so either by coaching yourself or finding a qualified coach and then helping him organize and field a team. Often, it is just too easy to complain and then leave it at that.
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:
no-e2:
I'll ask you two questions:
1. If it was so bad, why did your son stay?
2. Would the team have otherwise existed without this Dad coaching?
I just don't buy your disparaging remarks or others like it. Someone has to coach for teams like this to flourish. Most Dad's I know give it there best effort. And even when their sons play more than their ability should allow, it is still only one position out of nine and many other kids benefit.
My suggestion is if you can make it better, then do so either by coaching yourself or finding a qualified coach and then helping him organize and field a team. Often, it is just too easy to complain and then leave it at that.
I'll answer your questions:
1. We never let our kids quit anything.
2. Yes the organization would have put another coach in.
The point you obviously missed, is that daddy ball gives kids unrealistic expectations sometimes because the coach/daddy isn't honest. I had coached before but chose to stop at a certain age. Sounds like I hit a nerve.
no-e2, yes you did hit a nerve, but not for the reasons you undoubtedly think. I think your point is ridiculous. If you don't like the coach, put your son on another team. Some of the best players on some of the best teams I have encountered have had Dads coaching. These include Ron Tugwell, a legendary coach in Virginia, Robin Yount, of whom you might have heard, Dave Hilton, Floyd Bannister, Ken Phelps, Brian Harper.
Not always were their sons the best players. And I use these guys only to make a point. There have been many, many others of whom you have not heard with sons who are/will be stars. These include Robert Brewer, whose Storm team won a national championship and whose older son is a freshman in the starting rotation at UCLA, Kent Decker, whose son Jaff as a sophomore led his team to the state championship game in AZ last year and who already has played on a US National team, Bob Alderson, whose son Tim has a chance to be a first-round draft pick this year, John Aguirre, whose son was good but not great, who managed his team to the Connie Mack World Series championship last summer. And, finally, the best coach I ever saw, JayD Schlueter, who has two sons of whom you have never heard because they were not of the star variety.
All of these guys were Dads who coached their sons deep into their teens and helped those young men -- and many, many others -- become very good players and even better people.
My complaint is with those who won't expend the effort to make the game better beyond their own sons. Those are the ones most often who complain.
As for my own sons, I coached them for as long as I could. The oldest played Division I college baseball and earned All Big East Academic honors. The second son turned down three offers, one D1 and two D2, for a full academic ride to ASU. The youngest is a freshman on the varsity baseball team of one of the strongest high school programs in the nation. If Daddyball hurt them or any of their teammates it would come as a shock to me.
And, now that they are all nearly out of the house, I will continue to coach and be involved in the game in many other ways because I love it -- and especially the people associated with it -- like nothing else.
The funny thing is that every one of these guys is in the game first because he played and second because he had a son(s) he loved and wanted to teach and develop in that son a similar love of the game.
If that is Daddyball -- and I think it is -- we need more of it rather than less.
Not always were their sons the best players. And I use these guys only to make a point. There have been many, many others of whom you have not heard with sons who are/will be stars. These include Robert Brewer, whose Storm team won a national championship and whose older son is a freshman in the starting rotation at UCLA, Kent Decker, whose son Jaff as a sophomore led his team to the state championship game in AZ last year and who already has played on a US National team, Bob Alderson, whose son Tim has a chance to be a first-round draft pick this year, John Aguirre, whose son was good but not great, who managed his team to the Connie Mack World Series championship last summer. And, finally, the best coach I ever saw, JayD Schlueter, who has two sons of whom you have never heard because they were not of the star variety.
All of these guys were Dads who coached their sons deep into their teens and helped those young men -- and many, many others -- become very good players and even better people.
My complaint is with those who won't expend the effort to make the game better beyond their own sons. Those are the ones most often who complain.
As for my own sons, I coached them for as long as I could. The oldest played Division I college baseball and earned All Big East Academic honors. The second son turned down three offers, one D1 and two D2, for a full academic ride to ASU. The youngest is a freshman on the varsity baseball team of one of the strongest high school programs in the nation. If Daddyball hurt them or any of their teammates it would come as a shock to me.
And, now that they are all nearly out of the house, I will continue to coach and be involved in the game in many other ways because I love it -- and especially the people associated with it -- like nothing else.
The funny thing is that every one of these guys is in the game first because he played and second because he had a son(s) he loved and wanted to teach and develop in that son a similar love of the game.
If that is Daddyball -- and I think it is -- we need more of it rather than less.
I will end my participation in this discussion with this question. Do you really think that the names you mentioned are the "norm" or would you say they are the "exception to the rule"? Robin Yount! I think the answer is obvious. Would you really put him in the same class as someone who would play their son over a more qualified player. By the way the experience I relayed was a few years ago. I used it as an example of when good parents go bad. Sorry, I just had to say that.
I agree with jemaz. I was a "daddy" and used to coach my son for a few years. I saw it as a positive experience for everyone involved. He also played for other father/coaches up until he was 15yrs old. While he was a D-1 catcher and is currently a professional catcher, he never was the starting catcher on any of those teams. I never used the excuse of “Daddy Ball” but some parents did. Understand that you don't have to be a coach to have unrealistic expectations for your child. I would venture to say that the majority of NON coaching parents unjustly blame “daddy ball” in order cope with the stark reality THEIR unrealistic expectations have created.
noE-2 You paint with a broad brush when you say
Fungo
noE-2 You paint with a broad brush when you say
How many time will we hear this "whine" or a variation thereof? I've heard that “my son is better” complaint from unrealistic parents from "T" ball to professional ball. Parents coaching their kids and other kids is what makes all this youth sports work. Is it perfect? Of course it’s not but it sure beats video games.quote:someone who would play their son over a more qualified player
Fungo
To simplify my point, I will put it like this. Most Dads I know who coach -- particularly at high levels -- are very good coaches, many of them as good or better than Robin. For the ones who are not, simply join another team, which for a good player is easy. For a player that is not so good, it might not be so easy, but then the initial reason for the complaint probably does not accurately apply.
It's a term applied unfairly with a broad and inaccurate brush and, no, I don't like it at all.
It's a term applied unfairly with a broad and inaccurate brush and, no, I don't like it at all.
Something I've learned in the past 15 years...
Former Major League players, managers, MLB scouts and college coaches share one thing with many other parents. Some of them (not all) have a hard time understanding the true talent level of their sons.
They can be expert evaluators, but can't evaluate their own son accurately. Odd the way that works!
Personally, I think Dads are the most important people in all of baseball. Dads are the driving force in their sons love for the game in most cases IMO. Moms are second most important! Then come coaches, instructors and everyone else!
Dad coaching has been around for ever... and I hope it never stops, because if it does the game of baseball will suffer greatly. If a player is getting the shaft because of daddy ball, he's more than likely the 9th best player, at best, on that team. (the player replaced by coaches son)
Does anyone see the most talented players setting on the bench, even in what is described as "Daddy Ball"? Also, I have seen dad coached teams whose best player is... Yep! the coaches son.
Former Major League players, managers, MLB scouts and college coaches share one thing with many other parents. Some of them (not all) have a hard time understanding the true talent level of their sons.
They can be expert evaluators, but can't evaluate their own son accurately. Odd the way that works!
Personally, I think Dads are the most important people in all of baseball. Dads are the driving force in their sons love for the game in most cases IMO. Moms are second most important! Then come coaches, instructors and everyone else!
Dad coaching has been around for ever... and I hope it never stops, because if it does the game of baseball will suffer greatly. If a player is getting the shaft because of daddy ball, he's more than likely the 9th best player, at best, on that team. (the player replaced by coaches son)
Does anyone see the most talented players setting on the bench, even in what is described as "Daddy Ball"? Also, I have seen dad coached teams whose best player is... Yep! the coaches son.
What PG, in his wisdom, posted.
I'm not sure why I feel drawn to this conversation. Let's see, where do I begin. Whining? I'm not whining. I related a story as it occured some time ago. As I said, my son is the starter in a great program in one of the hot spots for baseball and plays in one of the top summer programs, for a great coach. He has a D1 and D3 offer on the table. And he's accepted to both major state schools on academics. And so far he has thrown out 4/5 attempts @ second and 2 at first in 5 games. I'm not whining. I think the problem with this conversation is we may be comparing apples and oranges. No one is saying dad's are bad. I'm a dad and I coached my son and then got out when he went to the more select travel ball teams.
The problem is when the judgement of the father is clouded, thereby providing the player/son with an unrealistic view of his abilities at a certain position. I'm not sure how this conversation got to this point. Dad's involved in their kids life in any way is a great thing. Whether it's coaching or helping with the marching band on Friday night or lining the field for a football game on Saturday morning. Being unrealistic with your son only sets them up for failure and disappointment. The young man in the earlier story was our best pitcher and 3rd baseman. But not catcher. He hasn't played baseball in about 3 or 4 years. Since his dad stopped coaching.
The problem is when the judgement of the father is clouded, thereby providing the player/son with an unrealistic view of his abilities at a certain position. I'm not sure how this conversation got to this point. Dad's involved in their kids life in any way is a great thing. Whether it's coaching or helping with the marching band on Friday night or lining the field for a football game on Saturday morning. Being unrealistic with your son only sets them up for failure and disappointment. The young man in the earlier story was our best pitcher and 3rd baseman. But not catcher. He hasn't played baseball in about 3 or 4 years. Since his dad stopped coaching.
no-e2:
I did not intend to pick on you. I don't even know why I responded to this particular post today. There are plenty of others expressing a similar sentiment. Your's just struck me today as representative on a larger scale and I responded. I'm glad your son is doing well.
I did not intend to pick on you. I don't even know why I responded to this particular post today. There are plenty of others expressing a similar sentiment. Your's just struck me today as representative on a larger scale and I responded. I'm glad your son is doing well.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Well, uh Cal Ripken, Jr. played for his dad. It seemed to work out till Dad lost his job managing the Orioles.
So do you think the O's just kept Sr. around until they signed Jr. to a longterm contract?
Hate to say this, but "Daddy Ball" typically only happens to mediocre talent! I know that sounds bad, but to be honest, if a kid is a good kid that can pop the mit at 90+, hit a ball to the moon, or pick it like the Wizard....I don't care if his dad is SATAN himself! (trying to be funny, of course) I know that this is a problem in some areas, so I'll say this: if you ARE a Dad coaching your son, make sure you have other dads who are involved as well...and bring your Advil, cuz it will be a bumpy ride!
Not exactly "Daddy ball" but pertains to dads in ball- one of the best things my son ever said to me was thanks for not being like some of the other dads that did anything and everything for their sons to gain spots on teams, etc. and just let him be and earn whatever spot or playing time he received. He felt that he should make a team based on ability and not connections and bulldozing. He didn't understand how players could take pride in being on a team that dad got them on, not their ability. Unfortunately, his career didn't go how we thought it might but he was always able to know that his talent made the team. Dads belong in youth baseball. You just hope that they can be fair and impartial, a tough order I know.
if the kid is not good everybody knows it is daddy ball but your kid could be the best player and if he plays ahead of another kid it is daddyball no matter what according to the experts. He is playing because he is your kid. but on the other hand if you as his father oinch hit for him in the last inning because he was 0-3 with 2 ks and a weak ground ball you have to go home and eat dinner with him. a no win situation
Daddy Ball (or, in my case, Mommy Ball) is in the eye of the beholder.
Will, I remember well my 'no win' situation. My son was probably nine years old, late in a close game, and a hit and two walks had the bases loaded with no outs. OK, he made the mess, do I risk the game for the team by leaving him in there or saddle some other kid with my son's predicament? I left him to fight it out, knowing that I would have put my son in there had another pitcher walked the bases loaded. After the game, one of the Dads of another pitcher on my team came up to me, laughing. Said a pitcher's Mom had come up to him at that point, all aggitated, "Why doesn't she pull him?!" He replied, "Really, you want your kid to take over right now? I know I don't want mine put in that position." "Oh", said she, "Good point", and wandered off.....
Will, I remember well my 'no win' situation. My son was probably nine years old, late in a close game, and a hit and two walks had the bases loaded with no outs. OK, he made the mess, do I risk the game for the team by leaving him in there or saddle some other kid with my son's predicament? I left him to fight it out, knowing that I would have put my son in there had another pitcher walked the bases loaded. After the game, one of the Dads of another pitcher on my team came up to me, laughing. Said a pitcher's Mom had come up to him at that point, all aggitated, "Why doesn't she pull him?!" He replied, "Really, you want your kid to take over right now? I know I don't want mine put in that position." "Oh", said she, "Good point", and wandered off.....
I have no problem with daddy ball, if it wasn't for daddy ball there wouldn't be enough coaches or teams
If the coach's son plays more innings, either the son earned it or the father earned it for him. Since I'm the one sitting in the stands,I don't have a problem with that.
I'm grateful for all (but one horrible coach) dads that coached my son.
Thanks dads and moms for all your time and work
If the coach's son plays more innings, either the son earned it or the father earned it for him. Since I'm the one sitting in the stands,I don't have a problem with that.
I'm grateful for all (but one horrible coach) dads that coached my son.
Thanks dads and moms for all your time and work
i just found this stat,but i'm not sure how accurate it is .
without parents 99.9% of kids would not have been born when they were. that would put a real dent in most leagues.
without parents 99.9% of kids would not have been born when they were. that would put a real dent in most leagues.
The Immaculate Conception League would still be strong!
Interesting points here.
I have coached kid baseball since the early 80's, T Ball to Legion, Coach Pitch to Connie Mack. Two years ago I went to work with a group that included my then 13 year old son.
Daddyball?
The other coaches on the Team also had kids playing. Daddyball? I think not.
Daddyball is a sports oddity where kids enjoy undue attention and playing time based upon parental participation. We involved ourselves to improve kids so that they would be prepared for their HS tryouts. Of the 18 kids who played for us over these past two years every single one made his High School team. We have now a couple playing playing Varsity ball and two or three on the JV's, the rest are on the Frosh Team, (this is spread amongst a half dozen different High Schools).
Oddly, all of the Coaches were volunteers, otherwise known as Daddy's, like me. Sure there is much daddy favoritism in kiddie ball, but be careful you don't throw out the Coach with with the bad.
I have coached kid baseball since the early 80's, T Ball to Legion, Coach Pitch to Connie Mack. Two years ago I went to work with a group that included my then 13 year old son.
Daddyball?
The other coaches on the Team also had kids playing. Daddyball? I think not.
Daddyball is a sports oddity where kids enjoy undue attention and playing time based upon parental participation. We involved ourselves to improve kids so that they would be prepared for their HS tryouts. Of the 18 kids who played for us over these past two years every single one made his High School team. We have now a couple playing playing Varsity ball and two or three on the JV's, the rest are on the Frosh Team, (this is spread amongst a half dozen different High Schools).
Oddly, all of the Coaches were volunteers, otherwise known as Daddy's, like me. Sure there is much daddy favoritism in kiddie ball, but be careful you don't throw out the Coach with with the bad.
After watching this thread I think most folks actually agree with one another. Dad's or Moms invloved in sports or any other activity with their kids is a good thing. Misusing or abusing that involvement for the advancement of thier kids, stay with me here it might get confusing, at the expense of another kid is not a good thing. Daddyball is a name for something that has gone bad for one reason or another. Atleast that's the way I look at it. We all agree we need police officers, but not bad cops. That may be a bad analogy. If it is, I can say with some certainty that I will be made aware of it. Thank You to all the Dad's and Moms who are there for the advancement of the team and all the kids on the team.
2007BBD,
Understand and agree with all you say. dads and moms are necessary and mostly do good. There are a small bunch who don't get it and promote their kids via the detriment and expense of others. A tough situation to combat. I know from past experiences.
Understand and agree with all you say. dads and moms are necessary and mostly do good. There are a small bunch who don't get it and promote their kids via the detriment and expense of others. A tough situation to combat. I know from past experiences.
It's even worse in high school when a parent KEEPS THE BOOK!!!
It never stops at any level.
quote:It's even worse in high school when a parent KEEPS THE BOOK!!!
Go ahead ----- stab me in the heart!!!! Where did you find such a broad brush??
Fungo
Leg Brush...For those hard to reach places that need to be washed, the extra extension this brush offers is great.
This one is only $12.95 at...Llama Things and Alpaca Things... Lakeview, TX
Dads that keep score, spending hours with the Palm Pilot to keep stats current, moms that run the snack bar, thereby making money for the underfunded baseball program.......
In my experience, quite often the parents that complain the most DO the least work. If you think "daddy ball" runs the show maybe you should become part of the solution and not the problem.
Agree, some parents are very obnoxious but many baseball teams couldn't run w/o them. (I must be alittle sensitive from the long hours in the snack bar)
In my experience, quite often the parents that complain the most DO the least work. If you think "daddy ball" runs the show maybe you should become part of the solution and not the problem.
Agree, some parents are very obnoxious but many baseball teams couldn't run w/o them. (I must be alittle sensitive from the long hours in the snack bar)
The long hours and the high sugar content!
daddy ball will continue on...as i think pg posted earlier...the best players will be successful!...our high school coach has a son that plays..not real coordinated...but will start at third base...he is also a pitcher...just a good kid trying hard to please dad...i kinda feel sorry for him...none of the other players have much to do with him and the parents are constantly discussing his short comings...maybe his dad really can't see that he is not a great player..who knows...the proof will be in game performance or lack thereof
Some of the best coaches are the dads that spend hours and hours working with young kids before they ever get to a HS program. And yes sometimes one of the kids is their own. So what? The parents in HS programs that help out anyway they can and are there for all the kids make a program special. The ones that are there for only their kid are obvious and will eventually be shown for what they are. The players that we have had that have been the most advanced when entering HS have been the players that have had someone , usually a dad that has played some baseball and loves the game teach them the game at a young age. I say thank you for the Daddy Ball if that is what you want to call it. I have yet to face an opponent that had their better players sitting on the bench unless it was for disciplinary reasons. Thanks dads and moms who help young fellas learn the game and give them a chance to play the game.
just a thought, how many people would find it wierd. if some guy you don't know starts coaching in your LL, or babe ruth systm? with no kid on the team? with no real baseball credentials? but he passes the back ground check. at first glance sounds strange, what's the take on this?
This is such a two-edged sword. There's no denying that daddyball exists - "I'm the coach, so my kid plays shortstop no matter what" - but it's also an accusation that is tossed around many times without merit and can be very hard on kids.
My own boys were often told they were picked for All Star teams or travel teams because my husband and I were heavily involved in our local league. (And yes, that meant running the concession stands and recruiting 36 t-ball coaches... very high powered positions!) Not once did anyone consider that maybe it was the other way around - we were so involved because our boys WERE that good... the best in the league. (Is that bad to say if it's true?) We wanted to do everything we could to give them a quality baseball experience, and in the process made the program better for everyone. I can guarantee you that had we never sat at a board meeting table (spent hundreds of hours there) or spent time assisting with clinics and tryouts (another thousand hours there) or popped a single batch of popcorn (another million hours there!) that our boys would still have been as good as they were... the program just wouldn't have been the best it could be for them and all the other kids who's parents never volunteered a second of their time. I guess they were just too busy spreading rumors and feeding the green eyed monster!
All three boys went on to play varsity ball and so far two have continued on to play in college... the oldest was the only one in his class from his high school team who kept playing. Son #2 was the first ever to play varsity as a freshman in the tenure of our head coach... his younger brother is the second. When son #2 was brought up to varsity, another parent, who I knew only by face from our years of playing against his travel teams asked me "so, how long have you known the coach?" In other words, "you must still be running the program here - how else can I explain the fact that your son is still being noticed and mine isn't?" Oddly enough, son #2 is now the only freshman starter on his college team... saw that same parent the other day who thought our high school coach was in my pocket - he never even asked how our boy was doing. Odd...
It was often hurtful to our boys and our family, but we taught them to just do what you do best and people will stop paying attention to the naysayers... especially once they stop coming to the games because their kids are no longer good enough to make the teams!
I guess the long and short of it is, daddyball certainly exists (and honestly, at the lower levels it seems to be getting worse as every kid we know who can't make a travel team seems to have a dad who just STARTS HIS OWN TEAM!) but there are also many, many good players who's parents are involved because they love their kids and they love the game of baseball. Make sure you know who you're spattering when you wave that brush around!
My own boys were often told they were picked for All Star teams or travel teams because my husband and I were heavily involved in our local league. (And yes, that meant running the concession stands and recruiting 36 t-ball coaches... very high powered positions!) Not once did anyone consider that maybe it was the other way around - we were so involved because our boys WERE that good... the best in the league. (Is that bad to say if it's true?) We wanted to do everything we could to give them a quality baseball experience, and in the process made the program better for everyone. I can guarantee you that had we never sat at a board meeting table (spent hundreds of hours there) or spent time assisting with clinics and tryouts (another thousand hours there) or popped a single batch of popcorn (another million hours there!) that our boys would still have been as good as they were... the program just wouldn't have been the best it could be for them and all the other kids who's parents never volunteered a second of their time. I guess they were just too busy spreading rumors and feeding the green eyed monster!
All three boys went on to play varsity ball and so far two have continued on to play in college... the oldest was the only one in his class from his high school team who kept playing. Son #2 was the first ever to play varsity as a freshman in the tenure of our head coach... his younger brother is the second. When son #2 was brought up to varsity, another parent, who I knew only by face from our years of playing against his travel teams asked me "so, how long have you known the coach?" In other words, "you must still be running the program here - how else can I explain the fact that your son is still being noticed and mine isn't?" Oddly enough, son #2 is now the only freshman starter on his college team... saw that same parent the other day who thought our high school coach was in my pocket - he never even asked how our boy was doing. Odd...
It was often hurtful to our boys and our family, but we taught them to just do what you do best and people will stop paying attention to the naysayers... especially once they stop coming to the games because their kids are no longer good enough to make the teams!
I guess the long and short of it is, daddyball certainly exists (and honestly, at the lower levels it seems to be getting worse as every kid we know who can't make a travel team seems to have a dad who just STARTS HIS OWN TEAM!) but there are also many, many good players who's parents are involved because they love their kids and they love the game of baseball. Make sure you know who you're spattering when you wave that brush around!
I'm new to the board and have a son who is making the move to 11 - 12 year old LL baseball this spring. In our league, as kids go up through the ranks of baseball, from age group to age group, the coaching dads move along with them. So if you're not happy with the coaching at 9 - 10, don't expect things to change when they move up. That's the predicament I find myself in. My son loves baseball. He works hard - reads alot, and studies the game, and has a natural ability for the game. He knows the history of players from Denton True Young, to Stephen Strasburg. He wants to be a major league pitcher. . . or coach some day.
He's seen the nepotism that takes place in our league and doesn't like it. For example: Every player on our all-star team last season was the son of a coach or an assistant coach . . . except my son. So that in itself says alot about his abilities. When he pithed in the all-star tournaments, he never gave up a run. Unfortunately, he rarely started. The head coaches son and the assistants' sons usually started the games and my son came in to stop the bleeding, which he did. In the last game of the tournament, that we needed to win to keep from being eliminated, the same scenario played out. When our team blew a 4 run lead after 2 innings, which ballooned to a 6 run deficit, they called my son in to pitch. I felt like telling him to tell the coach to shove it, but I held my tongue. As usual, he shut them out, but we lost 10 - 4. These are the same coaches that he'll have in the 11 - 12 year old league.
Now that I've vented, here's the issue: My son's last day of sign up for little league is coming up soon. He has been approached by a coach from a neighboring town to join his league. My son knows the coaches in our league, and their assistants. All of their sons are pitchers. So, if we have a 3 pitcher rotation, 2 of the pitchers are going to be coaches sons. In one instance, one coach has 2 sons that pitch. My son will be competing for the 3rd spot on each team.
The coach from the other league told me that my son would be in the top 3 of all of the pitchers in his league (my son is in the top 3 pitchers in our league too, which may have no bearing on whether he pitches or not when Daddy-Ball is involved).
My son and I have been going back and forth as to which league to sign up for. We've weighed the pros and cons of each. He's leaning toward the other league. I'm trying to convince myself that the home town coaches will place talent before nepotism. But it's tough, having had prior experience with these coaches. Any suggestions are welcome.
He's seen the nepotism that takes place in our league and doesn't like it. For example: Every player on our all-star team last season was the son of a coach or an assistant coach . . . except my son. So that in itself says alot about his abilities. When he pithed in the all-star tournaments, he never gave up a run. Unfortunately, he rarely started. The head coaches son and the assistants' sons usually started the games and my son came in to stop the bleeding, which he did. In the last game of the tournament, that we needed to win to keep from being eliminated, the same scenario played out. When our team blew a 4 run lead after 2 innings, which ballooned to a 6 run deficit, they called my son in to pitch. I felt like telling him to tell the coach to shove it, but I held my tongue. As usual, he shut them out, but we lost 10 - 4. These are the same coaches that he'll have in the 11 - 12 year old league.
Now that I've vented, here's the issue: My son's last day of sign up for little league is coming up soon. He has been approached by a coach from a neighboring town to join his league. My son knows the coaches in our league, and their assistants. All of their sons are pitchers. So, if we have a 3 pitcher rotation, 2 of the pitchers are going to be coaches sons. In one instance, one coach has 2 sons that pitch. My son will be competing for the 3rd spot on each team.
The coach from the other league told me that my son would be in the top 3 of all of the pitchers in his league (my son is in the top 3 pitchers in our league too, which may have no bearing on whether he pitches or not when Daddy-Ball is involved).
My son and I have been going back and forth as to which league to sign up for. We've weighed the pros and cons of each. He's leaning toward the other league. I'm trying to convince myself that the home town coaches will place talent before nepotism. But it's tough, having had prior experience with these coaches. Any suggestions are welcome.
Richie - great first post and question and welcome to the hsbbweb!
Neat that you revived this thread. I just reviewed the previous comments and they were all excellent. Politics exist at every level of the sport including the big leagues. Never let your son know these thoughts are in your mind but help him control those things he can control - attitude and effort. My son was forced to play multiple positions for precisely the issues you speak. You know what? It helped him get on the field at the collegiate level imho because it taught him about versatility and it ultimately tripled his chances for playing time.
No one here can make your decision for you. You and your son need to make the best decision for him. If he focuses on those two factors (attitude and effort) I believe things will work out perfectly for him no matter which you decide.
Again, welcome to the hsbbweb!
Neat that you revived this thread. I just reviewed the previous comments and they were all excellent. Politics exist at every level of the sport including the big leagues. Never let your son know these thoughts are in your mind but help him control those things he can control - attitude and effort. My son was forced to play multiple positions for precisely the issues you speak. You know what? It helped him get on the field at the collegiate level imho because it taught him about versatility and it ultimately tripled his chances for playing time.
No one here can make your decision for you. You and your son need to make the best decision for him. If he focuses on those two factors (attitude and effort) I believe things will work out perfectly for him no matter which you decide.
Again, welcome to the hsbbweb!
Thanks ClevelandDad.
I always tell him to do the best he can do, put in the maximum effort, and everything else should take care of itself.
It's kind of funny how his baseball "career" got started. When he was 7, one of his friends asked him about going out for Pee-Wee baseball. My son had no desire to play baseball (he watched it on TV once or twice and thought it was boring), and he wanted to be a quarterback in football. But since his friend was trying out, he decided it might be fun.
When he was a toddler, I gave him a small bean bag (hacky-sack) to throw to me. He showed evidence of having a naturally strong arm even then. We played catch with a mini-football almost every day through his early days, so he had developed a pretty strong and accurate arm. But when he showed up at baseball practice for the first time, most of the other kids had played T-Ball, and were familiar with the game, so my son was placed in right field. During the first day of outfield practice, my son showed he could throw a baseball from right field to home plate on a fly. The next practice he was on 3rd base and hasn't left the infield since. He has volunteered to catch too (he likes throwing kids out trying to steal second). He's not a big kid either. I see a lot of kids that are big for their age who dominate in their age group. He's actually one of the smallest kids in his class - he's due for a growth spurt. LOL.
So he gave up his quarterback dreams and spends most of his hours (when he's not doing his schoolwork) playing or thinking about playing baseball. By the way, his idol is Tim Lincecum . . . another small man with a big arm.
Thanks again for your sound advice.
I always tell him to do the best he can do, put in the maximum effort, and everything else should take care of itself.
It's kind of funny how his baseball "career" got started. When he was 7, one of his friends asked him about going out for Pee-Wee baseball. My son had no desire to play baseball (he watched it on TV once or twice and thought it was boring), and he wanted to be a quarterback in football. But since his friend was trying out, he decided it might be fun.
When he was a toddler, I gave him a small bean bag (hacky-sack) to throw to me. He showed evidence of having a naturally strong arm even then. We played catch with a mini-football almost every day through his early days, so he had developed a pretty strong and accurate arm. But when he showed up at baseball practice for the first time, most of the other kids had played T-Ball, and were familiar with the game, so my son was placed in right field. During the first day of outfield practice, my son showed he could throw a baseball from right field to home plate on a fly. The next practice he was on 3rd base and hasn't left the infield since. He has volunteered to catch too (he likes throwing kids out trying to steal second). He's not a big kid either. I see a lot of kids that are big for their age who dominate in their age group. He's actually one of the smallest kids in his class - he's due for a growth spurt. LOL.
So he gave up his quarterback dreams and spends most of his hours (when he's not doing his schoolwork) playing or thinking about playing baseball. By the way, his idol is Tim Lincecum . . . another small man with a big arm.
Thanks again for your sound advice.
Daddyball should (and kinda does) stop at the age and skill level where paid coaches become a viable alternative.
If you're in a situation where you find yourself frustrated by Daddyball, then you are most likely in one of the following situations:
1) You've got a kid who somehow has not been competitive enough to find his way onto a team with a paid coach
2) You need to wake up and get your kid onto a more competitive team
3) Your kid is very young, and you need to relax, because you've probably also got a young wife and long baseball future to look forward to
If you're in a situation where you find yourself frustrated by Daddyball, then you are most likely in one of the following situations:
1) You've got a kid who somehow has not been competitive enough to find his way onto a team with a paid coach
2) You need to wake up and get your kid onto a more competitive team
3) Your kid is very young, and you need to relax, because you've probably also got a young wife and long baseball future to look forward to
quote:
3) Your kid is very young, and you need to relax, because you've probably also got a young wife and long baseball future to look forward to
Seriously, I had a pretty similar situation with my son at the same age. We live in a small town, and the baseball really was just plain uncompetitive. I moved him to a more competitive program in a neighboring city, which would eventually become a club team. It was the best thing I ever did for my son's baseball future.
Although, this did not come without ramifications. Nine years later there are still Dads in "my little town" that do not talk to me because of what I did.
having umpired all levels of baseball and coached my sons teams in his earlier years, I will present an aside,,,,if it wasnt for dads, much of youth baseball would go unsupported....there just isnt a surplus of qualified selfless adult non-dad volunteers to coach every team...
Its very difficult for some to understand the amount of time/money/efforts that most Dad coaches put in year in and year out.
Are there daddy politics and nepotism in youth baseball? sure....of course...but there are also tons of people who complain of daddy ball when all they do is drop off their young player at the field.....
I can list you hundreds of instances where a daddy coach hauled kids all over the area, bought all the meals, fixed the gloves, supplied the cleats, bandaged the wounds, and provided the proper adult male role model that we all should be proud of....
When did daddy ball end for my son, it was when I realized that his ability had exceeded my basic knowledge and I turned my position over to better qualified individual....that was PONY leage 13-14....
Plus I was convinced that baseball needed an experienced umpire more than it needed another mediocre but well meaning coach
Its very difficult for some to understand the amount of time/money/efforts that most Dad coaches put in year in and year out.
Are there daddy politics and nepotism in youth baseball? sure....of course...but there are also tons of people who complain of daddy ball when all they do is drop off their young player at the field.....
I can list you hundreds of instances where a daddy coach hauled kids all over the area, bought all the meals, fixed the gloves, supplied the cleats, bandaged the wounds, and provided the proper adult male role model that we all should be proud of....
When did daddy ball end for my son, it was when I realized that his ability had exceeded my basic knowledge and I turned my position over to better qualified individual....that was PONY leage 13-14....
Plus I was convinced that baseball needed an experienced umpire more than it needed another mediocre but well meaning coach
Looking back to the LL years the proud dads could sometimes be overwhelming but they are the reason we have these organizations. Without them there might not be any baseball. But I know the realities of All-star selections. At some point,usually about 13,many of the kids decide they don't want to play anymore and the weak players start to be weeded out. If your son loves baseball he'll hang in there and continue to thrive.
My advice- do what you think is best even though it may make you unpopular with the LL dads. Just try to be gracious about it. At this point with my son playing college ball I'm glad we did have son take a different path but I know when he was younger there were lots of people talking behind our backs about our decision.
Our local high school now has 3 dads coaching the varsity team. If they didn't do it there probably wouldn't have a team. They do it for free too as there's so little money in our CA schools.
My advice- do what you think is best even though it may make you unpopular with the LL dads. Just try to be gracious about it. At this point with my son playing college ball I'm glad we did have son take a different path but I know when he was younger there were lots of people talking behind our backs about our decision.
Our local high school now has 3 dads coaching the varsity team. If they didn't do it there probably wouldn't have a team. They do it for free too as there's so little money in our CA schools.
Great post, ump. I'm not sure daddyball necessarily ends at a certain threshold age or level or quality of ball. As the original poster pointed out, even MLB engages in "legacy" drafting of the boys of former big leaguers (although the Piazza example is curious since that guy seems to have earned it!).
For our family, with the exception of the one year I sat in the bleachers, daddyball seemed to end every season, usually after the first or second practice/ batting practice round. After my team parents got an eyeful of son making plays, throws and hitting, most all reasonable parents begin to get it.
Further, as a daddy coach I always made a point of moving my boy around anyways, and then reinforced this sort of "good faith" with the other parents by spending extra time with their children in remedial work, while leaving my own son alone. He stopped learning from me a few years ago at ten anyways.
Even so, parents often can't escape that basic instinct of wanting the best for their kids. I certainly don't blame them; that's why I took over in Tee-Ball eight years ago when our assigned coach clearly showed he was overwhelmed.
But unfortunately even with my own strategy, there's always one parent who'll complain to me that even though their child started on the mound or up the middle, that they didn't receive enough "reps" in practice, implying I set the kid up to fail.
You can't do much with those parents, nor can you with the daddyball coaches that do favor their sons unfairly.
I think the comment above about getting to the point of having your child play in a program with paid coaches is a salient one. I am glad that this year, my son's first on the big diamond, is under a non-daddy coach who has 14 genuine (young) athletes to teach and develop; a guy who takes a long view with the kids in his program. 10 of these boys will pitch and 10 play everywhere. It's sure to be a pleasure for me sitting in the bleachers watching tres_arbolitos play for this man, whether it's up the middle, on the mound or in the OF.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to coach at the Bronco level (11-12 PONY) with no son in the picture, and plenty a great little guys to work with.
For our family, with the exception of the one year I sat in the bleachers, daddyball seemed to end every season, usually after the first or second practice/ batting practice round. After my team parents got an eyeful of son making plays, throws and hitting, most all reasonable parents begin to get it.
Further, as a daddy coach I always made a point of moving my boy around anyways, and then reinforced this sort of "good faith" with the other parents by spending extra time with their children in remedial work, while leaving my own son alone. He stopped learning from me a few years ago at ten anyways.
Even so, parents often can't escape that basic instinct of wanting the best for their kids. I certainly don't blame them; that's why I took over in Tee-Ball eight years ago when our assigned coach clearly showed he was overwhelmed.
But unfortunately even with my own strategy, there's always one parent who'll complain to me that even though their child started on the mound or up the middle, that they didn't receive enough "reps" in practice, implying I set the kid up to fail.
You can't do much with those parents, nor can you with the daddyball coaches that do favor their sons unfairly. I think the comment above about getting to the point of having your child play in a program with paid coaches is a salient one. I am glad that this year, my son's first on the big diamond, is under a non-daddy coach who has 14 genuine (young) athletes to teach and develop; a guy who takes a long view with the kids in his program. 10 of these boys will pitch and 10 play everywhere. It's sure to be a pleasure for me sitting in the bleachers watching tres_arbolitos play for this man, whether it's up the middle, on the mound or in the OF.
Meanwhile, I'll continue to coach at the Bronco level (11-12 PONY) with no son in the picture, and plenty a great little guys to work with.
Here's one approach I stumbled upon while trying to make light of some now forgotten Daddyball injustice:
"Son, you messed up."
"How?"
"You didn't pick a coach to be your dad. If you'd been smarter about choosing your father, you could have batted third and pitched whenever you wanted. See? It's your own dumb fault you were in right field instead of on the mound. Next time, choose more wisely."
He picked up on it and it became a recurring inside joke for several years until he became good enough to play for real coaches.
"How'd it go today, son?"
"I messed up?"
"Wrong dad again?"
"Yup."
I couldn't have planned it if I had tried, but humor helped him accept the reality we couldn't change and let him have fun with the rest of the experience.
Oh, and I agree with the other posters who say we should go easy on the Daddyball coaches. Better a Daddyball coach than no coach at all.
"Son, you messed up."
"How?"
"You didn't pick a coach to be your dad. If you'd been smarter about choosing your father, you could have batted third and pitched whenever you wanted. See? It's your own dumb fault you were in right field instead of on the mound. Next time, choose more wisely."
He picked up on it and it became a recurring inside joke for several years until he became good enough to play for real coaches.
"How'd it go today, son?"
"I messed up?"
"Wrong dad again?"
"Yup."
I couldn't have planned it if I had tried, but humor helped him accept the reality we couldn't change and let him have fun with the rest of the experience.
Oh, and I agree with the other posters who say we should go easy on the Daddyball coaches. Better a Daddyball coach than no coach at all.