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At what age should daddy ball stop?

BullwinkleBullwinkleBrown and Fuzzy Hero
Daddy ball is here to stay….

It’s very prevalent in youth baseball….travel ball….I’ve seen it at high school and in college….even the dodgers drafted Piazza as a favor to Uncle Tommy.

Maybe I seem a little snotty today, and I do apologize …but doesn’t seem that it’s who you know and how you schmooze is more important than what you do?

If you wish…tells us your daddy ball story and how it played out…
M to the double O, S to the E.
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J JT1,000+ posts
If you are the "daddy," it is a no-win situation. When we started our AAU team 10 years ago, the advice the college coach where I worked gave me was...

...do NOT get trapped into your son being the SS...even if he is the best SS. You're better off moving your own son around as needed, instead of someone else's son.

And guess what. I did and STILL took heat for playing my son all over. I took heat LAST YEAR from parents because the HS coach did the same thing. I got the last laugh though, as the coach's advice has paid its dividends as now I have a versatile college freshman that loves the game because of where all he's played.
Last edited by JT
L lafmom5,000+ posts
quote:
but doesn’t seem that it’s who you know and how you schmooze is more important than what you do?

This can be true in many parts of life... just the way it is.

When speaking of favor picks in the draft... I know a kid that was drafted out of HS. I can't believe that it was anything but embarassing for the kid. He couldn't hit or field. Had great speed though. It was obviously a favor to his dad and surely the kid knew it? That's not an emotion I would want my child to feel. That's not success by anyone's yard stick IMO.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Be good enough that you have to be on the field. Then dont worry about Daddy Ball or politics or anything else negative. I would have been promoted but _________. I would have been __________ but. My son would have been __________ but. Excuses and complaints leave your child hollow and without solutions. The dad goes out puts the team together etc etc etc of course his son is going to play. How many rec level , travel teams etc etc have you ever seen where the dad was the coach and his kid sat the bench? Should anyone at that age be sitting the bench all the time? If your son can play he will play when it matters the most. If he cant play and he still does play are you going to complain to the coach and have him sit him? Just play the game. Be so good that they have to play you. At the lower levels its about learning the game and getting a solid fundemental base of the game. None of this stuff will matter down the road anyway. The best way to deal with it is to not worry about it. Dont focus on it. And dont use it as an excuse. Be above it and be better than your competition.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I got a great story - or at least I think it's great because it shut a daddy up. My first year as head coach ever was at a school that did not have any tradition of success at baseball. I come in and change everything. I ran off most of the older players because I wouldn't let them take Spring Break off to get drunk for a week.

I went with a very young team of 8 sophomores and 1 junior starting almost every game. I had strict standards and didn't put up with a bunch of junk - just trying to establish discipline. Well the parents hated me (they would go to the board of education demanding they fire me) and that was even the ones who were starting in the field.

Near the end of the season - by the way we got to the regional title game for the first time in school history (sorry had to brag a little) - I had this daddy tell me he was going to have a summer team of our guys. I thought that would be a good idea. He had this idea of "putting me in my place" and showing me "how a team should be run". He told me he was going to have tryouts and choose the absolute best players and strive to be an elite team. I innocently asked him why have tryouts since it was going to be our high school team and he would be lucky to have 12 guys at the games. He told me he was going to do it right.

Day of the tryouts we show up at the field and he tells me to watch how to run a true try out. Well that ticked me off. The tryout started and there were 7 kids at the tryout. He gave me a clipboard and told me to time guys running to first. Basically making me a secretary.

It was humorous on the things he did - he had two batting practice hitters going at the same time with two BP throwers. I asked what does a kid do when two balls are hit at them and he told me that could never happen. A kid almost lost his head because he was fielding a groundball while a linedrive was coming at him.

Needless to say the team never got off the ground and the next spring I very maturely kept asking how his team did that summer.
T theEH1,000+ posts
If not 6, then by 12.
Some dad's would make Great coaches.
But for the benefit of your player. Don't coach him.
At least don't coach him all year long.
Allow him a chance to see baseball outside of dad's care.

Sometime's there would be no team unless a dad started it.
But do it for the right reason's. To play baseball.
B brod100+ posts
I'm a Dad, who stopped coaching my son when he turned 11 - that was about right for both of us so that he could grow, and I not ruin our relationship. But I raise a toast to all the Dads who SUCCESSFULLY coached their sons to greater things, and produced fine young men besides. Their are many sports success stories in college and pro baseball. In fact, I would argue that behind the majority of college, minor league and MLB players, there is a graying or balding Dad, who can look back with pride on his contribution to his player's development. Sorry, guys, but I think Dads sometimes get a bad rap, when they are much more often the foundation of athletic and personal success for their sons. I've seen and heard some horror stories too, but let's give credit where credit is due.
StyleMismatchStyleMismatch100+ posts
Well, if you're talking daddy ball so that junior can be the shortstop and pitcher that should end at around age 5 or 6.

I guess technically I'm doing daddy ball for a 13/14 year old youth team, but I think I'm doing it for some of the right reasons. Son has been on various teams which I have helped with, but I never felt he was getting any kind of quality instruction, productive practices, etc. One head coach was so wrapped up in himself he called the kids together in the middle of the field during a game and ripped them a new one for messing up a rundown (which had not been practiced at all that season). I've always said if you don't like the way something is then do something about it. So here I am playing head coach.

One of my biggest gripes is seeing coaches waste time at practice by being unprepared, having 9 kids stand around in the field doing nothing while a batter at the plate attempts to hit pitches that are over his head, or just running the same drills day after day. So I spend an hour or two a couple of nights before every practice and type up a practice plan and post it on our website so the kids can get ready for what we'll work on. I video pitching and batting and post slow motion clips on the website so the kids can see what they need to work on. I want the ones who strive to play high school ball to be ready for it.

My son is a pretty good kid and so on, but right off the bat he bugged me to put him at SS. Well, there are two kids on the team who I feel are better at SS than my son, so no SS. Son has caught for quite a while and is good at it, so right now he catches, plays 2nd, and plays outfield. I'd like to do something special for the catchers from time to time because sometimes they do take a beating in games (son certainly has), but since the coaches kid is a catcher none of them get any special treatment.

I don't pretend to know everything about baseball, there are certainly many coaches that know more than me. I study DVD's and books to stay ahead of the kids, and of course glean information from a few good web sites.

That's where I'm at with daddy-ball at the moment. So far my relationship with my son has stayed on a pretty even keel while being his coach. It's not always perfect, but we do pretty well. In a way it's an advantage because we communicate really well and as a catcher he picks up on a lot of stuff that the other catchers wouldn't think to tell me (Tom's changeup is awesome today; Joe's starting to lose his stuff; the ump's calling strikes off the outside corner, etc.)
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by brod:
I'm a Dad, who stopped coaching my son when he turned 11 - that was about right for both of us so that he could grow, and I not ruin our relationship. But I raise a toast to all the Dads who SUCCESSFULLY coached their sons to greater things, and produced fine young men besides. Their are many sports success stories in college and pro baseball. In fact, I would argue that behind the majority of college, minor league and MLB players, there is a graying or balding Dad, who can look back with pride on his contribution to his player's development. Sorry, guys, but I think Dads sometimes get a bad rap, when they are much more often the foundation of athletic and personal success for their sons. I've seen and heard some horror stories too, but let's give credit where credit is due.


Good point brod - there has to be someone pushing the kid or they won't get there.

It's like everything else in life. You have a small number who are phenomenal and get recognition, a large group who do a great job with no fanfare and another small group who get all the attention because they are idiots.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
Daddy ball is here to stay ---It will never go away. While there are a few players that will be overlooked or under praised, especially in the eyes of the “other” parents, I think the good that the involved parent does far outweighs the bad. The involved parent is the backbone of youth baseball introducing the game to young kids everywhere. Like many other parents I helped coach -- I was an assistant coach when my son was 8-9-10 and then stepped off the field. Does the involved parent give their kid special treatment? Many do, some don’t, and some parents even go the other way and go out of the way to “pass over” their own kids. I never made the preferential parental treatment issue an excuse when my son was playing. I always taught him that hard work and talent were what made things happen. If I explained that there were other “excuses” for not succeeding then I’m sure he could have thought up a few of his own. Excuses are the fuel for failure.
Fungo
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Keep in mind that LL is all volunteers---with no Daddy's there is no LL Same with all rec leagues

Sure there are Daddy's who know squat but think they know it all --that comes with the territory


Personally I stopped coaching my guys at the last year of LL, 12-- the guy who took over the team ended up being the HS JV coach
rz1rz15,000+ posts
If I was told I couldn't coach my son after a certain age I'd have to give him to another family and then coach his team.

If respect of all the players is the same as the respect shown to the son the situation could not be better for the players and the other parents involved. The "MySon" coaches do exist but I feel they almost all fall by the wayside due to to the pressure of other parents, or the pressure from the son himself. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions, and for every "daddyball" situation you will also find a "bad coach" scenario.

We have to remember that league rosters come and go through the years with players who decide baseball is not for them, or do not have the physical skills. I cannot think of anyone better than a teamates dad to make them feel at home and at least give the experience a fighting chance to enjoy the sport during that time. Daddyball coaches for the most part have more than a baseball interest in the team. It is not about showing up in the parking lot on game day, but it is also being part of the kids lives off the field through the life of their son. These are imprtant years of a kids life and I feel that the more hours a responsible adult that can be invoved the better.

Coaching youth baseball is much more than coaching baseball.
obradyobrady500+ posts
Don't use that broad brush again!

I think that up to high school it's OK and even in some off season leagues after that. I once put together a fall team (high schoolers) and just let the kids play, all I did was do put together the starting lineup and made some substitutions. I worked on teaching them how to read the opposing pitcher, get he pitch you wanted/expected. I let them bunt, steal or swap positions when ever they wanted. We didn't win all the games but we won enough to have fun.

Caveat - Daddy balls OK if it's not all about "his" son, it's about the game. I've seen many Daddy coaches who were good enough to coach at other levels but chose a business career instead.


Oh I did know one Travel/Select team where the coaches son seldom played.
L louisiana09100+ posts
My husband and a middle school coach coached their son’s teams from t-ball through age 13. I can honestly say out of the 9 years my husband coached he was only approached once by a parent because her son was not on the field for the whole game like my son was. My husband told her “if you want this job you can have it, but I must warn you, it doesn’t pay well and if you can’t tell the difference between my son and yours, I’m sorry”. All of these boys were blessed to have these two men coach them for 9 years of rec ball and 3 summers of tournament ball. These dad’s are both very knowledgeable of the game and were both great high school players. They taught these boys the game of baseball and also respect and discipline (a lot of it). Believe me when I say my husband did no favors for my son, he was a lot harder on my son then any other player. My son was on the field because he had talent and worked his rump off. He is now a high school sophomore starting pitcher and plays second or wherever he is needed. I would not have had it any other way.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I wish I had more dads in my community like you guys. If I did I would have players coming into HS that knew was a primary lead was and a secondary lead. The dads that know the game that take the time to coach these young have no idea how much they are helping these players. Too many times kids get taught the wrong way to do things by some guy who could careless. Dads that know the game and take a vested interest in making sure that the kids are taught properly help way more than the once in awhile daddyball nutcase scenario. RZ that was a great post. You should continue to do what you love and why the hell not? There are a ton of baseball guys that just happen to have sons that can out coach alot of HS baseball coaches. Some of the best coaches I know are guys that played in HS maybe some college or pro ball and just want to share the knowledge they have. Here is what I believe. When you have a dad coaching at the youth level and he has a son on the team. If this dad knows the game he is going to make sure that the players are taught properly because he darn sure wants his kid to be taught properly. If your son gets the benefit of getting taught properly because of this what is wrong with that? Would you rather have some clown come coach the team that does not have a son on the team just for the sake of him not having a son on the team? Dads are the backbone of any strong rec or travel baseball program at the youth level. And sometimes in the summer or fall at the HS level. The areas of our state that are strong in baseball all have this in common. I honestly get tired of hearing daddyball. If your sick of daddyball then you coach a team and teach them the proper way to play the game. And then you deal with the issues of everyone saying the only reason your son plays is because your the coach. How many parents of the kids playing all the time complain of daddyball? Who cares if the coaches son at 11 years old is playing SS or pitching or hitting in the 3 hole. Does it really matter as long as your son is learning the game the right way and having fun? Or are you making it miserable for him by you constantly complaining and changing teams. Be carefull because those little guys will start being the ones complaining and finding the same excuses that you are leaving on the floor for them to pick up.
T thepainguy1,000+ posts
As someone who coaches his own son, I have run up against this.

What I have done to try to manage things is to...

1. Try to make sure that, as long as guys show up at practice, they get roughly equal amounts of playing time.

2. Be really objective about things when I can.

For example, when putting together the batting order for a game, I order things by each player's On Base Percentage during the previous game. The higher their OBP in the previous game, the higher they bat. In terms of calculating OBP, I count hits, BBs, and HBPs as equal (but I use hits and number of bases to break ties).

I came up with this after another parent used his "gut feeling" based approach to bat his son higher in the order than my son, despite my son's higher OBP.

Oh, and Money Ball is about as far from Daddy Ball as you can get (and that's the point).
Last edited by thepainguy
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
I think I’ve posted this in the past, but the year before it was time for my son to start playing LL another dad and I went to the field and saw a lot of chaos from almost every team. No offense to the other “daddy ball” coaches, as they were doing the best they knew how, but we looked at each other and said we couldn’t leave our kids to this and became “daddy ball” coaches. We were determined to teach them the game as best we knew and to make it fun for the whole team.

League rules stipulated that each player must play a minimum of three defensive outs and have at least one at bat. Although sometimes it was a logistical nightmare, we rotated kids every inning (to many different positions) and batted the whole lineup which was allowed in our league. We kept our roster to 11 or 12 players. Also if the #9 hitter made the last out of the game, the #10 hitter led off the next game which made for some interesting lineups (slowest kid hitting leadoff, weakest hitter hitting cleanup, etc…). Needless to say we didn’t have any parent problems. Fortunately most of the kids were equal in talent so it wasn’t too traumatic. We took our lumps in the early years by playing up, but their last year together as 14 yo; we won the league by going 24-0. Unfortunately we had to alter things for tournaments as we couldn’t hit everyone and rotate defensively, but still won a couple tourneys and ended up 2nd in CABA state tourney losing to a select travel team from Denver in extra innings.

The next year as freshmen their coach correctly guessed who we had previously coached and thanked us for teaching them the game.

So, while I don’t really care for the phrase “daddy ball”, I’m glad I was one and agree with the other posters who say without us types; a lot of kids would be out of luck and out of baseball.

JMO

Also to answer the initial question; when they became freshmen and could play legion ball was the time for me to quit “officially” coaching my son.
Wink
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
I can honestly say out of the 9 years my husband coached he was only approached once by a parent

I was approached once by a younger single mom after a game. I didn't know her real well and initially was concerned what her problem was. She pulled me off to the side and eye-2-eye asked me what I had going for the weekend. Being a "guy" my initial thought was confused/bewildered/ and felt for once in my life like a "stud-muffin" who had to break a heart. Without skipping a beat she knocked me back down to earth saying that her and her boyfriend wanted to get away and asked if I wouldn't mind watching her son for the weekend. After I recovered from my bubble being popped I realized that I was always going to always have 12-15 kids a summer, it was by my choosing, and I wouldn't change it for anything.

This is a great thread because many have a preconceived opinion on the topic. This is when you either try to walk in those shoes, be supportive and helpful to make the situation work, or sit back watch the game and keep your mouth....... "positive". Youth baseball can have daddyball up and down the fence with moms/dads helping out in many facets of a program, not just on the bench. My advice would be just get involved and don't make "daddyball" a dirty word. If there is a message that we as parents of older kids should share, that is it. In youth baseball the strength of a program is as strong as the parents behind it and that strength filters on to the next levels.
Last edited by rz1
20dad20dad1,000+ posts
as tr said most LL coaches are dads and without them there wouldn't be leagues.and if i didn't have kids i probably wouldn't have got involved. i coached my oldest untill 12, my youngest untill 15. i wouldn't trade that time for anything. like obrady i have put together a fall team for the last 9 years, to keep them playing, all of them. in the begining i did it for my kids but i really enjoy all the kids. i think it keeps us grounded to listen to kids other than your own, really listen they aren't telling you things because you want to here them. the local babe ruth league needs coaches,after thinking about how much fun i had i think i'll sign up for another tour.
W wildthingking10+ posts
Interesting subject. My son had five head coaches from t-ball to 11-12 LL. Not one of the coaches son's is still playing baseball. Almost without exception the coaches kid got to play more and were selected to All-Star Teams because of dad. Once the kids went to 90ft bases they had different coaches and could not compete.

Inspite of all this my son continued to play and improve and is going to a D1 school next year.

Baseball is really a layering on sport. Daddy ball really does an injustice to kids that love the game but are late bloomers. Most end up quitting by 12-13yo.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wildthingking:
Interesting subject. My son had five head coaches from t-ball to 11-12 LL. Not one of the coaches son's is still playing baseball. Almost without exception the coaches kid got to play more and were selected to All-Star Teams because of dad. Once the kids went to 90ft bases they had different coaches and could not compete.
Without being negative
1. Where were you?
2. Very seldom do you find a coach in the t-ball to 11/12 that do not have a son involved
3. The all-star teams diss of non-coaches kids is a program issue that should be voiced with the at large parent groups and those that speak up
4. IMHO very few all-stars fail to compete when they head to the big diamond. My guess is that you lost the coaches kids before that diamond switch.

Inspite of all this my son continued to play and improve and is going to a D1 school next year.
Did you ever wonder that maybe his "intestinal fortitude" to succeed because of the said injustices made him the player he is today.

Baseball is really a layering on sport. Daddy ball really does an injustice to kids that love the game but are late bloomers. Most end up quitting by 12-13yo.
Most end up quitting at that age regardless. I feel that most dads will give a kid with lesser tools a better shake than a guy that is just there to coach.
R RangerMember
I am new to this site, but have been lurking for quite a while, this is a great site and one of the few times that I have disagreed with the consensus, so I thought I would throw my two cents in.

I have four boys, I have coached, have a great appreciation for those that do and up until recently always believed that a little parental bias is fairly harmless.

HS tryouts finished up two weeks ago and my oldest (sophomore) made the varsity for his second year. Two sophomore boys who I thought should have been there with him were not, both were picked over my son for the higher level all star team as 14 yr olds and both have a lot of talent. Unfortunately, both of these boys for the second straight year performed horribly during tryouts, 2 days and neither fielded or hit anywhere near to the level they are capable of (reported by my son who is friends with these boys). The problem is neither has ever had to really try out before, they have never been one bad outing as a pitcher away from dropping out of the rotation, or one bad at bat away from becoming a bench player and while both have highly developed physical skills, the pressure of having to perform in an unforgiving environment seems to have overwhelmed them (at least that is my theory). What do you think, is it possible to produce a comfort zone as a dad that can harm your kids ability to handle pressure?
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
When I hear the term “Daddy Ball” I think father favoring his son and son’s friends in an unfair manner.

But just because a Dad is the coach, it doesn’t always mean it’s “Daddy Ball”! And we should all give a big thank you to all those great dads out there who have unselfishly done so much for so many young boys in youth baseball. I’ve known a lot of dads who did a great job of coaching. Have seen a few of the other types, too.

It's too bad that some of the best dads who coach, stop coaching so soon.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Welcome to the board Ranger. Its also nice to see another NC guy on here! Dads that coach because they want to gain an advantage for their son are not doing their kid any favors in the long run. Coach because you want to coach all the kids. Coach because you have something to give to all the kids. Coach because you love the game and want to teach the game. We have all seen the dad that starts the team so his son can be assured of playing time. We all know that he is not helping his son. But in my opinion the ones that coach for the right reasons far and away out number the others.
T theEH1,000+ posts
PG, I loved coaching the kid's and my son.

But for my son's sake, I needed to stop coaching him after 12 yrs old.
And I'm glad I did.

It's his game not mine.


But it sure was Fun, when I did coach.
Even with all the Headache's of making everything fair at that age. Not counting trying to make the parent's happy.
Which never did happen with some?
Ever the Diplomat?

Just play the game, Nothing else matter's at that age.
EH
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
My son's daddy stopped coaching him at 9-10. It was a good decision. Big Grin

I have no problem if a coach dad wants to play his son at any position, that's his payback, whether the son is deserving of the position or not. As long as that coach was a good coach, didn't use up his arm and treated his kids well we had no issues. I think the parents who really had issues with that were the ones whose sons wouldn't be playing that position anyway. Most of the coaches my son had when he was older, didn't use their sons as much as the dads did when kids were younger.

I do want to thank all of those dad's who do take their time to give to others.

I have received a few posts from some of the dads here who have coached some of the Clemson players that attend or will be attending. They are really proud of those boys and the way I see it, they have to be great coaches to turn out such great players!
shortstopmomshortstopmom1,000+ posts
Ever want to get a ton of kids to come to your HS age summer team try-outs?

Advertise like this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Summer team looking for players for college showcase team.

Team is coached by former college BB players.

NO Dad coaches.

12 man roster.

P.S. We're sponsored.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Watch what happens Big Grin
Last edited by shortstopmom
W wildthingking10+ posts
Rz1-w/o being negative:

You wrote: Without being negative
1. Where were you?
2. Very seldom do you find a coach in the t-ball to 11/12 that do not have a son involved
3. The all-star teams diss of non-coaches kids is a program issue that should be voiced with the at large parent groups and those that speak up
4. IMHO very few all-stars fail to compete when they head to the big diamond. My guess is that you lost the coaches kids before that diamond switch.

1)I was at as many games and practices as possible. I did field work, ran snack bars and umpired. My schedule did not allow me to coach except occasionally.
2)Yes and they selected their kids who were less talented than other kids. So you think that all those coaches from all the other teams that selected their kids didn't support another coach selecting his kid? Come on!
3)That is LL! They don't develop kids. It's all geared to the LLWS.
4)My son did make All Stars as a 12yo. My son and one other kid are still playing baseball. Neither had daddy as a coach.

Sorry, but I allowed the coaches to make there own decisions. My son once complained about not playing more and I told him to practice more and get better. I told him if he was that much better than everyone else they would have to play him.

Gee, if your kid loves baseball and you can coach then do it. I wish I could have done it more. But if I was a coach and there was someone better than him on the team then my son would have been the one sitting.

By the way, my son did use the lack of recognition as part of his drive and incentive to succeed.
B brod100+ posts
wildthingking - You have described a very common situation. Why does it seem that when coach's kids are no good they play second base? (no disrespect intended to all you second baseman out there) Our son reacted like yours when victimized by Daddyball. I believe the vast majority of Dads do their best but a few are toxic. Your hands-on approach and involvement kept your kid on an even plane. In the end, the creme rises to the top. Congrats.
N no-e210+ posts
Daddy ball isn't good for anyone. Especially the son. My son is a catcher and played on a travel team where the coach's son wanted to play catcher. Whenever he was in some parents would ask why my son wasn't catching. I just said I don't know, I'm not the coach. And the pitchers wanted him to catch. Now that coach's son isn't playing ball anymore and hasn't in some time. My son is the starting catcher at a 5A school with a D1 offer. Did that kids father do him any favors? No. He only did himself a favor. What daddy ball does is give a lot of kids unrealalistic opinions of their ability. When they get to a point in their life where daddy can't do it for them, it's a hugh shock. I've seen it so many times where the dad is coaching a travel ball team and they get to high school and guess what, little Johnny is the best player now, is he.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
no-e2:

I'll ask you two questions:

1. If it was so bad, why did your son stay?
2. Would the team have otherwise existed without this Dad coaching?

I just don't buy your disparaging remarks or others like it. Someone has to coach for teams like this to flourish. Most Dad's I know give it there best effort. And even when their sons play more than their ability should allow, it is still only one position out of nine and many other kids benefit.

My suggestion is if you can make it better, then do so either by coaching yourself or finding a qualified coach and then helping him organize and field a team. Often, it is just too easy to complain and then leave it at that.
N no-e210+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jemaz:
no-e2:

I'll ask you two questions:

1. If it was so bad, why did your son stay?
2. Would the team have otherwise existed without this Dad coaching?

I just don't buy your disparaging remarks or others like it. Someone has to coach for teams like this to flourish. Most Dad's I know give it there best effort. And even when their sons play more than their ability should allow, it is still only one position out of nine and many other kids benefit.

My suggestion is if you can make it better, then do so either by coaching yourself or finding a qualified coach and then helping him organize and field a team. Often, it is just too easy to complain and then leave it at that.


I'll answer your questions:

1. We never let our kids quit anything.
2. Yes the organization would have put another coach in.

The point you obviously missed, is that daddy ball gives kids unrealistic expectations sometimes because the coach/daddy isn't honest. I had coached before but chose to stop at a certain age. Sounds like I hit a nerve.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
no-e2, yes you did hit a nerve, but not for the reasons you undoubtedly think. I think your point is ridiculous. If you don't like the coach, put your son on another team. Some of the best players on some of the best teams I have encountered have had Dads coaching. These include Ron Tugwell, a legendary coach in Virginia, Robin Yount, of whom you might have heard, Dave Hilton, Floyd Bannister, Ken Phelps, Brian Harper.

Not always were their sons the best players. And I use these guys only to make a point. There have been many, many others of whom you have not heard with sons who are/will be stars. These include Robert Brewer, whose Storm team won a national championship and whose older son is a freshman in the starting rotation at UCLA, Kent Decker, whose son Jaff as a sophomore led his team to the state championship game in AZ last year and who already has played on a US National team, Bob Alderson, whose son Tim has a chance to be a first-round draft pick this year, John Aguirre, whose son was good but not great, who managed his team to the Connie Mack World Series championship last summer. And, finally, the best coach I ever saw, JayD Schlueter, who has two sons of whom you have never heard because they were not of the star variety.

All of these guys were Dads who coached their sons deep into their teens and helped those young men -- and many, many others -- become very good players and even better people.

My complaint is with those who won't expend the effort to make the game better beyond their own sons. Those are the ones most often who complain.

As for my own sons, I coached them for as long as I could. The oldest played Division I college baseball and earned All Big East Academic honors. The second son turned down three offers, one D1 and two D2, for a full academic ride to ASU. The youngest is a freshman on the varsity baseball team of one of the strongest high school programs in the nation. If Daddyball hurt them or any of their teammates it would come as a shock to me.

And, now that they are all nearly out of the house, I will continue to coach and be involved in the game in many other ways because I love it -- and especially the people associated with it -- like nothing else.

The funny thing is that every one of these guys is in the game first because he played and second because he had a son(s) he loved and wanted to teach and develop in that son a similar love of the game.

If that is Daddyball -- and I think it is -- we need more of it rather than less.
Last edited by jemaz
N no-e210+ posts
I will end my participation in this discussion with this question. Do you really think that the names you mentioned are the "norm" or would you say they are the "exception to the rule"? Robin Yount! I think the answer is obvious. Would you really put him in the same class as someone who would play their son over a more qualified player. By the way the experience I relayed was a few years ago. I used it as an example of when good parents go bad. Sorry, I just had to say that.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I agree with jemaz. I was a "daddy" and used to coach my son for a few years. I saw it as a positive experience for everyone involved. He also played for other father/coaches up until he was 15yrs old. While he was a D-1 catcher and is currently a professional catcher, he never was the starting catcher on any of those teams. I never used the excuse of “Daddy Ball” but some parents did. Understand that you don't have to be a coach to have unrealistic expectations for your child. I would venture to say that the majority of NON coaching parents unjustly blame “daddy ball” in order cope with the stark reality THEIR unrealistic expectations have created.
noE-2 You paint with a broad brush when you say
quote:
someone who would play their son over a more qualified player
How many time will we hear this "whine" or a variation thereof? I've heard that “my son is better” complaint from unrealistic parents from "T" ball to professional ball. Parents coaching their kids and other kids is what makes all this youth sports work. Is it perfect? Of course it’s not but it sure beats video games.
Fungo
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
To simplify my point, I will put it like this. Most Dads I know who coach -- particularly at high levels -- are very good coaches, many of them as good or better than Robin. For the ones who are not, simply join another team, which for a good player is easy. For a player that is not so good, it might not be so easy, but then the initial reason for the complaint probably does not accurately apply.

It's a term applied unfairly with a broad and inaccurate brush and, no, I don't like it at all.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Something I've learned in the past 15 years...

Former Major League players, managers, MLB scouts and college coaches share one thing with many other parents. Some of them (not all) have a hard time understanding the true talent level of their sons.

They can be expert evaluators, but can't evaluate their own son accurately. Odd the way that works!

Personally, I think Dads are the most important people in all of baseball. Dads are the driving force in their sons love for the game in most cases IMO. Moms are second most important! Then come coaches, instructors and everyone else!

Dad coaching has been around for ever... and I hope it never stops, because if it does the game of baseball will suffer greatly. If a player is getting the shaft because of daddy ball, he's more than likely the 9th best player, at best, on that team. (the player replaced by coaches son)

Does anyone see the most talented players setting on the bench, even in what is described as "Daddy Ball"? Also, I have seen dad coached teams whose best player is... Yep! the coaches son.
N no-e210+ posts
I'm not sure why I feel drawn to this conversation. Let's see, where do I begin. Whining? I'm not whining. I related a story as it occured some time ago. As I said, my son is the starter in a great program in one of the hot spots for baseball and plays in one of the top summer programs, for a great coach. He has a D1 and D3 offer on the table. And he's accepted to both major state schools on academics. And so far he has thrown out 4/5 attempts @ second and 2 at first in 5 games. I'm not whining. I think the problem with this conversation is we may be comparing apples and oranges. No one is saying dad's are bad. I'm a dad and I coached my son and then got out when he went to the more select travel ball teams.

The problem is when the judgement of the father is clouded, thereby providing the player/son with an unrealistic view of his abilities at a certain position. I'm not sure how this conversation got to this point. Dad's involved in their kids life in any way is a great thing. Whether it's coaching or helping with the marching band on Friday night or lining the field for a football game on Saturday morning. Being unrealistic with your son only sets them up for failure and disappointment. The young man in the earlier story was our best pitcher and 3rd baseman. But not catcher. He hasn't played baseball in about 3 or 4 years. Since his dad stopped coaching.
Coach KnightCoach Knight500+ posts
Hate to say this, but "Daddy Ball" typically only happens to mediocre talent! I know that sounds bad, but to be honest, if a kid is a good kid that can pop the mit at 90+, hit a ball to the moon, or pick it like the Wizard....I don't care if his dad is SATAN himself! (trying to be funny, of course) I know that this is a problem in some areas, so I'll say this: if you ARE a Dad coaching your son, make sure you have other dads who are involved as well...and bring your Advil, cuz it will be a bumpy ride!
Last edited by Coach Knight
C chickpeaMember
Not exactly "Daddy ball" but pertains to dads in ball- one of the best things my son ever said to me was thanks for not being like some of the other dads that did anything and everything for their sons to gain spots on teams, etc. and just let him be and earn whatever spot or playing time he received. He felt that he should make a team based on ability and not connections and bulldozing. He didn't understand how players could take pride in being on a team that dad got them on, not their ability. Unfortunately, his career didn't go how we thought it might but he was always able to know that his talent made the team. Dads belong in youth baseball. You just hope that they can be fair and impartial, a tough order I know.
W Will1,000+ posts
if the kid is not good everybody knows it is daddy ball but your kid could be the best player and if he plays ahead of another kid it is daddyball no matter what according to the experts. He is playing because he is your kid. but on the other hand if you as his father oinch hit for him in the last inning because he was 0-3 with 2 ks and a weak ground ball you have to go home and eat dinner with him. a no win situation
O Orlando1,000+ posts
Daddy Ball (or, in my case, Mommy Ball) is in the eye of the beholder.

Will, I remember well my 'no win' situation. My son was probably nine years old, late in a close game, and a hit and two walks had the bases loaded with no outs. OK, he made the mess, do I risk the game for the team by leaving him in there or saddle some other kid with my son's predicament? I left him to fight it out, knowing that I would have put my son in there had another pitcher walked the bases loaded. After the game, one of the Dads of another pitcher on my team came up to me, laughing. Said a pitcher's Mom had come up to him at that point, all aggitated, "Why doesn't she pull him?!" He replied, "Really, you want your kid to take over right now? I know I don't want mine put in that position." "Oh", said she, "Good point", and wandered off.....
N njbb1,000+ posts
I have no problem with daddy ball, if it wasn't for daddy ball there wouldn't be enough coaches or teams

If the coach's son plays more innings, either the son earned it or the father earned it for him. Since I'm the one sitting in the stands,I don't have a problem with that.

I'm grateful for all (but one horrible coach) dads that coached my son.

Thanks dads and moms for all your time and work
Last edited by njbb
C CAHardballMember
Interesting points here.

I have coached kid baseball since the early 80's, T Ball to Legion, Coach Pitch to Connie Mack. Two years ago I went to work with a group that included my then 13 year old son.

Daddyball?

The other coaches on the Team also had kids playing. Daddyball? I think not.

Daddyball is a sports oddity where kids enjoy undue attention and playing time based upon parental participation. We involved ourselves to improve kids so that they would be prepared for their HS tryouts. Of the 18 kids who played for us over these past two years every single one made his High School team. We have now a couple playing playing Varsity ball and two or three on the JV's, the rest are on the Frosh Team, (this is spread amongst a half dozen different High Schools).

Oddly, all of the Coaches were volunteers, otherwise known as Daddy's, like me. Sure there is much daddy favoritism in kiddie ball, but be careful you don't throw out the Coach with with the bad.
B 2007baseballdad10+ posts
After watching this thread I think most folks actually agree with one another. Dad's or Moms invloved in sports or any other activity with their kids is a good thing. Misusing or abusing that involvement for the advancement of thier kids, stay with me here it might get confusing, at the expense of another kid is not a good thing. Daddyball is a name for something that has gone bad for one reason or another. Atleast that's the way I look at it. We all agree we need police officers, but not bad cops. That may be a bad analogy. If it is, I can say with some certainty that I will be made aware of it. Thank You to all the Dad's and Moms who are there for the advancement of the team and all the kids on the team.
Last edited by 2007baseballdad
C CaBB1,000+ posts
Dads that keep score, spending hours with the Palm Pilot to keep stats current, moms that run the snack bar, thereby making money for the underfunded baseball program.......

In my experience, quite often the parents that complain the most DO the least work. If you think "daddy ball" runs the show maybe you should become part of the solution and not the problem.

Agree, some parents are very obnoxious but many baseball teams couldn't run w/o them. (I must be alittle sensitive from the long hours in the snack bar)
osage10osage1010+ posts
daddy ball will continue on...as i think pg posted earlier...the best players will be successful!...our high school coach has a son that plays..not real coordinated...but will start at third base...he is also a pitcher...just a good kid trying hard to please dad...i kinda feel sorry for him...none of the other players have much to do with him and the parents are constantly discussing his short comings...maybe his dad really can't see that he is not a great player..who knows...the proof will be in game performance or lack thereof
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Some of the best coaches are the dads that spend hours and hours working with young kids before they ever get to a HS program. And yes sometimes one of the kids is their own. So what? The parents in HS programs that help out anyway they can and are there for all the kids make a program special. The ones that are there for only their kid are obvious and will eventually be shown for what they are. The players that we have had that have been the most advanced when entering HS have been the players that have had someone , usually a dad that has played some baseball and loves the game teach them the game at a young age. I say thank you for the Daddy Ball if that is what you want to call it. I have yet to face an opponent that had their better players sitting on the bench unless it was for disciplinary reasons. Thanks dads and moms who help young fellas learn the game and give them a chance to play the game.
mythreesonsmythreesons500+ posts
This is such a two-edged sword. There's no denying that daddyball exists - "I'm the coach, so my kid plays shortstop no matter what" - but it's also an accusation that is tossed around many times without merit and can be very hard on kids.

My own boys were often told they were picked for All Star teams or travel teams because my husband and I were heavily involved in our local league. (And yes, that meant running the concession stands and recruiting 36 t-ball coaches... very high powered positions!) Not once did anyone consider that maybe it was the other way around - we were so involved because our boys WERE that good... the best in the league. (Is that bad to say if it's true?) We wanted to do everything we could to give them a quality baseball experience, and in the process made the program better for everyone. I can guarantee you that had we never sat at a board meeting table (spent hundreds of hours there) or spent time assisting with clinics and tryouts (another thousand hours there) or popped a single batch of popcorn (another million hours there!) that our boys would still have been as good as they were... the program just wouldn't have been the best it could be for them and all the other kids who's parents never volunteered a second of their time. I guess they were just too busy spreading rumors and feeding the green eyed monster! Razz

All three boys went on to play varsity ball and so far two have continued on to play in college... the oldest was the only one in his class from his high school team who kept playing. Son #2 was the first ever to play varsity as a freshman in the tenure of our head coach... his younger brother is the second. When son #2 was brought up to varsity, another parent, who I knew only by face from our years of playing against his travel teams asked me "so, how long have you known the coach?" In other words, "you must still be running the program here - how else can I explain the fact that your son is still being noticed and mine isn't?" Oddly enough, son #2 is now the only freshman starter on his college team... saw that same parent the other day who thought our high school coach was in my pocket - he never even asked how our boy was doing. Odd...

It was often hurtful to our boys and our family, but we taught them to just do what you do best and people will stop paying attention to the naysayers... especially once they stop coming to the games because their kids are no longer good enough to make the teams!

I guess the long and short of it is, daddyball certainly exists (and honestly, at the lower levels it seems to be getting worse as every kid we know who can't make a travel team seems to have a dad who just STARTS HIS OWN TEAM!) but there are also many, many good players who's parents are involved because they love their kids and they love the game of baseball. Make sure you know who you're spattering when you wave that brush around!
Richie_RichRichie_RichMember
I'm new to the board and have a son who is making the move to 11 - 12 year old LL baseball this spring. In our league, as kids go up through the ranks of baseball, from age group to age group, the coaching dads move along with them. So if you're not happy with the coaching at 9 - 10, don't expect things to change when they move up. That's the predicament I find myself in. My son loves baseball. He works hard - reads alot, and studies the game, and has a natural ability for the game. He knows the history of players from Denton True Young, to Stephen Strasburg. He wants to be a major league pitcher. . . or coach some day.
He's seen the nepotism that takes place in our league and doesn't like it. For example: Every player on our all-star team last season was the son of a coach or an assistant coach . . . except my son. So that in itself says alot about his abilities. When he pithed in the all-star tournaments, he never gave up a run. Unfortunately, he rarely started. The head coaches son and the assistants' sons usually started the games and my son came in to stop the bleeding, which he did. In the last game of the tournament, that we needed to win to keep from being eliminated, the same scenario played out. When our team blew a 4 run lead after 2 innings, which ballooned to a 6 run deficit, they called my son in to pitch. I felt like telling him to tell the coach to shove it, but I held my tongue. As usual, he shut them out, but we lost 10 - 4. These are the same coaches that he'll have in the 11 - 12 year old league.
Now that I've vented, here's the issue: My son's last day of sign up for little league is coming up soon. He has been approached by a coach from a neighboring town to join his league. My son knows the coaches in our league, and their assistants. All of their sons are pitchers. So, if we have a 3 pitcher rotation, 2 of the pitchers are going to be coaches sons. In one instance, one coach has 2 sons that pitch. My son will be competing for the 3rd spot on each team.
The coach from the other league told me that my son would be in the top 3 of all of the pitchers in his league (my son is in the top 3 pitchers in our league too, which may have no bearing on whether he pitches or not when Daddy-Ball is involved).
My son and I have been going back and forth as to which league to sign up for. We've weighed the pros and cons of each. He's leaning toward the other league. I'm trying to convince myself that the home town coaches will place talent before nepotism. But it's tough, having had prior experience with these coaches. Any suggestions are welcome.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Richie - great first post and question and welcome to the hsbbweb!

Neat that you revived this thread. I just reviewed the previous comments and they were all excellent. Politics exist at every level of the sport including the big leagues. Never let your son know these thoughts are in your mind but help him control those things he can control - attitude and effort. My son was forced to play multiple positions for precisely the issues you speak. You know what? It helped him get on the field at the collegiate level imho because it taught him about versatility and it ultimately tripled his chances for playing time.

No one here can make your decision for you. You and your son need to make the best decision for him. If he focuses on those two factors (attitude and effort) I believe things will work out perfectly for him no matter which you decide.

Again, welcome to the hsbbweb!
Last edited by ClevelandDad
Richie_RichRichie_RichMember
Thanks ClevelandDad.
I always tell him to do the best he can do, put in the maximum effort, and everything else should take care of itself.
It's kind of funny how his baseball "career" got started. When he was 7, one of his friends asked him about going out for Pee-Wee baseball. My son had no desire to play baseball (he watched it on TV once or twice and thought it was boring), and he wanted to be a quarterback in football. But since his friend was trying out, he decided it might be fun.
When he was a toddler, I gave him a small bean bag (hacky-sack) to throw to me. He showed evidence of having a naturally strong arm even then. We played catch with a mini-football almost every day through his early days, so he had developed a pretty strong and accurate arm. But when he showed up at baseball practice for the first time, most of the other kids had played T-Ball, and were familiar with the game, so my son was placed in right field. During the first day of outfield practice, my son showed he could throw a baseball from right field to home plate on a fly. The next practice he was on 3rd base and hasn't left the infield since. He has volunteered to catch too (he likes throwing kids out trying to steal second). He's not a big kid either. I see a lot of kids that are big for their age who dominate in their age group. He's actually one of the smallest kids in his class - he's due for a growth spurt. LOL.
So he gave up his quarterback dreams and spends most of his hours (when he's not doing his schoolwork) playing or thinking about playing baseball. By the way, his idol is Tim Lincecum . . . another small man with a big arm.
Thanks again for your sound advice.
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
Daddyball should (and kinda does) stop at the age and skill level where paid coaches become a viable alternative.

If you're in a situation where you find yourself frustrated by Daddyball, then you are most likely in one of the following situations:

1) You've got a kid who somehow has not been competitive enough to find his way onto a team with a paid coach

2) You need to wake up and get your kid onto a more competitive team

3) Your kid is very young, and you need to relax, because you've probably also got a young wife and long baseball future to look forward to
birdman14birdman141,000+ posts
quote:

3) Your kid is very young, and you need to relax, because you've probably also got a young wife and long baseball future to look forward to

I like the part about a young wife.

Seriously, I had a pretty similar situation with my son at the same age. We live in a small town, and the baseball really was just plain uncompetitive. I moved him to a more competitive program in a neighboring city, which would eventually become a club team. It was the best thing I ever did for my son's baseball future.
Although, this did not come without ramifications. Nine years later there are still Dads in "my little town" that do not talk to me because of what I did.
Last edited by birdman14
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
having umpired all levels of baseball and coached my sons teams in his earlier years, I will present an aside,,,,if it wasnt for dads, much of youth baseball would go unsupported....there just isnt a surplus of qualified selfless adult non-dad volunteers to coach every team...

Its very difficult for some to understand the amount of time/money/efforts that most Dad coaches put in year in and year out.

Are there daddy politics and nepotism in youth baseball? sure....of course...but there are also tons of people who complain of daddy ball when all they do is drop off their young player at the field.....

I can list you hundreds of instances where a daddy coach hauled kids all over the area, bought all the meals, fixed the gloves, supplied the cleats, bandaged the wounds, and provided the proper adult male role model that we all should be proud of....

When did daddy ball end for my son, it was when I realized that his ability had exceeded my basic knowledge and I turned my position over to better qualified individual....that was PONY leage 13-14....

Plus I was convinced that baseball needed an experienced umpire more than it needed another mediocre but well meaning coach
Last edited by piaa_ump
C CaBB1,000+ posts
Looking back to the LL years the proud dads could sometimes be overwhelming but they are the reason we have these organizations. Without them there might not be any baseball. But I know the realities of All-star selections. At some point,usually about 13,many of the kids decide they don't want to play anymore and the weak players start to be weeded out. If your son loves baseball he'll hang in there and continue to thrive.

My advice- do what you think is best even though it may make you unpopular with the LL dads. Just try to be gracious about it. At this point with my son playing college ball I'm glad we did have son take a different path but I know when he was younger there were lots of people talking behind our backs about our decision.

Our local high school now has 3 dads coaching the varsity team. If they didn't do it there probably wouldn't have a team. They do it for free too as there's so little money in our CA schools.
tres_arbolestres_arboles1,000+ posts
Great post, ump. I'm not sure daddyball necessarily ends at a certain threshold age or level or quality of ball. As the original poster pointed out, even MLB engages in "legacy" drafting of the boys of former big leaguers (although the Piazza example is curious since that guy seems to have earned it!).

For our family, with the exception of the one year I sat in the bleachers, daddyball seemed to end every season, usually after the first or second practice/ batting practice round. After my team parents got an eyeful of son making plays, throws and hitting, most all reasonable parents begin to get it.

Further, as a daddy coach I always made a point of moving my boy around anyways, and then reinforced this sort of "good faith" with the other parents by spending extra time with their children in remedial work, while leaving my own son alone. He stopped learning from me a few years ago at ten anyways.

Even so, parents often can't escape that basic instinct of wanting the best for their kids. I certainly don't blame them; that's why I took over in Tee-Ball eight years ago when our assigned coach clearly showed he was overwhelmed.

But unfortunately even with my own strategy, there's always one parent who'll complain to me that even though their child started on the mound or up the middle, that they didn't receive enough "reps" in practice, implying I set the kid up to fail.
Roll Eyes You can't do much with those parents, nor can you with the daddyball coaches that do favor their sons unfairly.

I think the comment above about getting to the point of having your child play in a program with paid coaches is a salient one. I am glad that this year, my son's first on the big diamond, is under a non-daddy coach who has 14 genuine (young) athletes to teach and develop; a guy who takes a long view with the kids in his program. 10 of these boys will pitch and 10 play everywhere. It's sure to be a pleasure for me sitting in the bleachers watching tres_arbolitos play for this man, whether it's up the middle, on the mound or in the OF.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to coach at the Bronco level (11-12 PONY) with no son in the picture, and plenty a great little guys to work with.
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
Here's one approach I stumbled upon while trying to make light of some now forgotten Daddyball injustice:

"Son, you messed up."

"How?"

"You didn't pick a coach to be your dad. If you'd been smarter about choosing your father, you could have batted third and pitched whenever you wanted. See? It's your own dumb fault you were in right field instead of on the mound. Next time, choose more wisely."

He picked up on it and it became a recurring inside joke for several years until he became good enough to play for real coaches.

"How'd it go today, son?"

"I messed up?"

"Wrong dad again?"

"Yup."

I couldn't have planned it if I had tried, but humor helped him accept the reality we couldn't change and let him have fun with the rest of the experience.


Oh, and I agree with the other posters who say we should go easy on the Daddyball coaches. Better a Daddyball coach than no coach at all.
Last edited by Swampboy
Richie_RichRichie_RichMember
Well, we talked it over this morning and decided to stay with the home team. One of the main reasons was because we really don't know if the same circumstances don't exist in the other league. The other coach painted a rosy picture, but my son would have been put into the draft and could have ended up in a similar situtation.
He knows that if he works harder than everyone and outhustles everyone, only good things can come from that. We already spend a lot of time working on various skills throughout the year, so that won't change. He just wants to show the results of his dedication.

I have to respond to "wraggArm".
1) - there are no teams in our area where they have paid coaches.
2) - the teams in the league are competitive. It's just that Daddys do what's best for Junior, and not necessarily what's best for anyone else's kid.
3) - I'm a 56 year old widower, so no young wife. Maybe your clairvoyant skills are a little off today. LOL.

I appreciate all of the comments. I'll write back later on in the year and let everyone know how things pan out. Thanks. - Rich
B bballdad17510+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Richie_Rich:
Well, we talked it over this morning and decided to stay with the home team. One of the main reasons was because we really don't know if the same circumstances don't exist in the other league. The other coach painted a rosy picture, but my son would have been put into the draft and could have ended up in a similar situtation.
He knows that if he works harder than everyone and outhustles everyone, only good things can come from that. We already spend a lot of time working on various skills throughout the year, so that won't change. He just wants to show the results of his dedication.

I have to respond to "wraggArm".
1) - there are no teams in our area where they have paid coaches.
2) - the teams in the league are competitive. It's just that Daddys do what's best for Junior, and not necessarily what's best for anyone else's kid.
3) - I'm a 56 year old widower, so no young wife. Maybe your clairvoyant skills are a little off today. LOL.

I appreciate all of the comments. I'll write back later on in the year and let everyone know how things pan out. Thanks. - Rich


I wouldn't worry one iota whether he gets to start a game or not. Keep working him on the side and make sure he is ready if he's called.

Meanwhile, there is no reason why he can't be the best hitter in the league or best fielder. Just depends on how much he wants it.

Things change so much from 11-12 to High School.

Just keep it all positive for him, watch games together, and keep him in the game. At some point he will be recognized...
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
Rich,

Welcome to the HSBBWeb, and best of luck to your son! It's still very early, relax and have fun. Before you know it, your son will be a senior in HS, or in college, or playing professional baseball...and you'll be wondering where the time has gone! Wink

As for Daddyball, there is no doubt it exists. It was around 25 years ago, and it will be around 25 years from now! I coached my son up to his Frosh year of HS. During his Little League/Pony days it was relaxing, I moved him around and allowed him to play multiple positions, as I did with many of the other young players. All Stars were a little more stressful. I managed a couple All Star teams and had to deal with the politics. After that initial 9-10 All Stars, we put together a travel team from the majority of the kids on that team. We had fun...won some tournaments and lost some tournaments. At some point, the politics and bickering amongst parents and coaches became too much to handle, and a very talented group of local kids split up and started playing on different teams.

But Daddyball can work both ways IMHO. By the time 14 and under rolled around, me and another dad formed a Semi-Regional Team. We put together a squad that was able to compete with the best of the best in California. We won a ton of games, and we were rated in the top ten nationally in USSSA and other travelball sites for most of the year. That was nice, but we wanted to keep everyone happy and unfortunately our son's paid for it a little. We didn't bat them in the 3-4 hole, we had them in the 6-7 and often in the 9-10 hole. Our kids are pitchers/outfielders and we'd platoon them during big tournaments so that we didn't take playing time away from the other's...kind of "reverse Daddyball". It was tough sometimes, but my son had a great attitude the entire ride, and in the long run it all worked out. Now he's a senior in HS, and I'm looking back thinking... WOW, where has the time gone???
Last edited by bsbl247
WklinkWklink500+ posts
Personally, I think a lot of it depends on the qualities and qualifications of the father.

I stopped when my son turned 12 and started playing club/select ball. When they are 6-10 and the basics are being taught most fathers can fall back on that old high school education that they had 10-25 years ago but after that it gets a whole lot harder. Once I realized that my son knew more about the game than I did I decided to let someone with more experience and a better pedigree do the coaching.

I'm involved in things like fundraising and assisting in minor things, I help out at practices doing things like throwing bp or even shagging a fly ball or two but I let the coaching decision be made by the people that make the hard decisions. The only things I volunteer for now are things that make the coaches' jobs a little bit easier to do.
C cball500+ posts
I too coached my now soph son through 11U. I don't think I daddy'd him at all but I still wanted him to play for other coaches and frankly at the time I was exhuasted from the grind of year round baseball.
Now I have the best job...assistant coach for my younger son's team.

With the perspective of having been a head coach and manager and the time and work it takes I have no problem if we're on a team where the coach favors his son somewhat. If that's the price he charges for the work he puts in so be it. Luckily our experience has not been bad at all.

Most parents do not understand the amount of work, time and sacrafice a coach puts in to coach their kids. My hat is off to all the volunteer coaches out there.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
I coached my daughter through showcase softball and my son through 16U. They never caught any slack from me. Position and lineup wise they played where they earned. Behavior wise I was tough on them if they acted up. They had to set an example for the team.

In the preteen years let kids play with their friends as long as other circumstances don't deter their passion for the game. This stuff all starts to sort itself out in the teen years and into high school when it becomes obvious daddy's kid isn't very good.

If and when the time comes to play travel ball look very closely at the situation. There can be daddy ball in travel too. If you see six coaches assume six positions are taken. By 15U if a daddy can't coach he can't attract talent.

Be careful what you see and tell your son. I've seen parents including myself get upset at stuff that never hits the kid's radar screen. It's why I say most kids will have fun playing ball as long as their parents don't try to tell them they're not having fun.
Last edited by RJM
BackstopDad32BackstopDad325,000+ posts
I have been both inside and outside the fence with my son (currently inside) who is now 13.

I think I have seen it the other way as well. Meaning myself and our head coach are much more critical of our sons' mistakes and play.

As my son grows and matures he has kind of stood up to me (respectfully mind you) and said to the effect "Dad, I know and I got this so how about you back 'er down a little" And as a 40 year old man I am proud to say I think I have.

Crazy he seems to be playing a lot more consistently without a lot of bad emotion now that his sometimes lunatic dad is no longer yelling at him for every little thing.

Now my head coach and his son. We are still working on that Big Grin
D Dadof310,000+ posts

Ha ha ha, had to bring this up.  This was during the selection of the 11u a/b/c teams.  The "a" team has been together as a whole group since coach pitch (8yrs old)    The coaches kid last year made the team "because he was put in sacrificial positions"  this year its because "he has fire in his eyes when he is at bat"  another kid because "well he has been on the team for the last four years"  Ha ha ha.  It is all to keep them together until after 12 so they can all go to cooperstown together.  This team didn't win a single tournament last year.  As a coach, wouldn't you want change so you can hopefully have a better chance at winning?

 

Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts
Dadof3 posted:

Ha ha ha, had to bring this up.  This was during the selection of the 11u a/b/c teams.  The "a" team has been together as a whole group since coach pitch (8yrs old)    The coaches kid last year made the team "because he was put in sacrificial positions"  this year its because "he has fire in his eyes when he is at bat"  another kid because "well he has been on the team for the last four years"  Ha ha ha.  It is all to keep them together until after 12 so they can all go to cooperstown together.  This team didn't win a single tournament last year.  As a coach, wouldn't you want change so you can hopefully have a better chance at winning?

 

Sounds to me like your local organization needs to come up with some rules.....and if they have them put someone in place to enforce them.  We had 3 teams in our small town starting in 3rd grade....3rd-5th grade played together.  Every year, we held a "draft" to pick the 3rd graders and assign them to each team.  You couldn't change teams....you stayed with your team for all 3 years.  If a younger brother came up, he was put on the team with the older brother.  We had all dads (or maybe uncles) coaching....but they normally were only involved a couple years while their kids were there.  We'd usually have a 5th grade dad as HC, then the others as assistants....so nobody really had any unfair opportunities as you were only a HC one year and your son was already on the team.  Your only real task was drafting the 3 or 4 third graders....then coaching for 5 or 6 weeks.  Our teams were usually pretty evenly matched....though one or 2 third graders who could really play could really help out a team.  We played league games only.  If anyone wanted to take a team for weekend tourneys, we normally just picked kids from all 3 teams and went and played.  Never really had any issues other than a few parents who complained that their son didn't get to go to any tourneys....but it was never a major problem

Last edited by Buckeye 2015
L 2017LHPscrewball5,000+ posts

I'm thinking I would want to coach the B team.  These type arrangements seem to get tricky.  I assume if a dad is coaching a team, then his kid is going to be on that team.  If his kid or the dad had a best friend (or someone that lives next door) than count that kid in too.  I realize it is sometimes difficult to field a competitive B team (been there) but to think that the A team is not largely cemented is fooling yourself - although I think you have a pretty good idea of what is going on.  To answer your question, a generic "coach: probably would want to change things, but a dad coach may be perfectly happy with the status quo.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

I wouldn't expect dad to coach one team and son to play for another. I would expect the organization to tell dad to coach the B or C team if he wants to coach his son. 

Daddyball can be annoying. But you will look back on it and laugh. If your son is good it won't affect playing time. Sometimes it affects position played. Sometimes it affects the ability to win the game. 

D Dadof310,000+ posts

Yes, I agree with everything.  It is just funny to hear the reasons stated for keeping a kid on a team.  My son is on the b team and I am just happy to keep him there then to deal with some of the issues that the a team has.  I am also looking to take my son outside of local ball next year.  He isn't going to get the training he needs or the competition by staying with status quo. 

 

F FriarFred5,000+ posts

Great topic!  I laugh at some of these comments and I think we all know that without Dads (and Moms) the boys and leagues would suffer.  My own experience was watching my son get more and more frustrated with his daddy ball team (I didn't coach that one) and after the season was over said he didn't care if his friends continued to play on that team, he was done, had had enough and would find his own team.  He did the research, found out about tryouts and ended up playing for a former major league pitcher for 2.5 years.  That was an incredible experience for him and made him a much better player because of it.  As frustrated as we get as parents watching our kids caught up in the "bad" daddy ball, the kids feel it as well.

P pabaseballdad5,000+ posts

Kind of off topic here.  But I had to share this.   When my oldest (2014) was 11.  I coached his rec team.   We weren't very good but we had a lot of fun.    When all star draft time came he didn't make either a or b team.  I was fine with it. Son was ok pitcher at the time.  Hit ok, he was a big kid and when he ran into the ball it flew a long ways.  But. Unfortunately for him he was In a year group that had a lot of good athletes.     We had about 15 kids that were decent players that year that wanted to play ball but didn't make the teams for whatever reason - yes we had our share of daddy ball and all the other garbage.  

   I received a call from the league director and he informed me that the league was going to have a "c" team if I would be the coach.   Oh boy- how do you say no to that?    So a buddy of mine and I agreed to coach, we entered "b" tournaments.  Got killed first couple,  kids started to gel and by the last tournament we lost in the championship game.     It was a blast.  Best time I ever had coaching.   

Fast forward to senior year hs playoffs, -  3 of "my boys" we're on the field.  (My son was not one of them.  He decided to focus on football - right decision.  He's a college o line now- not really a baseball body type! ). the "a" team had a couple still playing.  

Point is - as hard as it is to do,  forget all the trash- politics, daddy ball, etc.   just keep it fun and keep them playing.  It all works itself out.  

S SluggerDad10,000+ posts

After my son was no longer playing Pony League,  I was asked if I would be willing to coach a team, even though my own son had moved on.  I thought hard about it.  It would have been great fun, I think.  But I was too busy following the kid around and watching from the stands at that point.  And actually,  I did quite enjoy  not having to deal with all the stuff you have to deal with when you coach. But it would have been interesting to see if I coached differently when my team did not include my son.    

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