Baseball Dads

       
       


Have your husband join this site. There are some very good post on this subject.

+1 with standball

 

Here is a post (I was that dad...not proud)...have him read

 

http://community.hsbaseballweb...i-learned-from-hsbbw

 

Yikes. We all say things we regret, but I hope what I quoted above isn't the norm. Hopefully some fathers here can help out and your husband can read what they offer, or you can have a heart to heart with him. He's not only jeopardizing his future in baseball, but possibly a college diploma. Best of luck to your family.

Maybe dad wants college baseball for his son more than his son wants it. That's not good. Post game analysis is better left for tomorrow. Ask your husband if he likes having his work critiqued as he's headed home after a hard day at work.

I'll admit....I was a "baseball dad"....but a lot of it was because my son was a true "baseball kid".  He knew when he was 5 years old that he wanted to play baseball in college....you don't have to believe me, but HE never really considered anything else.  I coached him from 5 years old thru junior high in his "local" leagues...and helped out at 12U, 15U and 16U with his travel teams....and if I had to do it over, I don't think I'd change a thing.

 

We had our share of arguments....sure...but never once did it carry over beyond the first few minutes of the ride home.  The next day he would get up and say "let's throw" or "let's go hit"...it's just the way it was.....though my wife (at the time...lol) may tell you differently.

 

Fast forward to last July.  We were at a tourney out of town...and the RC of a school recruiting him had asked him to call him...and made it pretty clear that an offer was coming.  He called from the parking lot after an early morning game.  I stood next to him...not being able to hear anything he said...only bits and pieces like "yes, they're good with it"...and "ok, thanks coach".   He hung up, told me he was offered...and committed.  We looked at each other....and for the first time in a long time neither of us had anything to say.  I finally put my arm around him and said "look, it was a lot of work...and a sometimes I was kind of a pain in the ass....but are you still happy we did it?".  He didn't say a word....just as goofy grin and a nod of his head....then he headed off across the parking lot to tell his teammates.

 

Fine....I was and still am a "baseball dad"....but I'm ok with that 

I will admit I was "that dad" when Ryan was younger, but at some point, it had to become his quest.  Your husband can offer advice, but your husband should probably be the "good cop" by now, and not the "bad cop".  If it is going to happen for your son great, if not, it is not the end of the world.  My fear is that your husband is jeopardizing his future relationship with your son.

At the risk of being harsh ask your husband these questions:

 

How long are you going to live? Answer - Until I am XX years old.

Do you want to live every day from now until that day without your son & grandchildren? Answer - (hopefully) - Of course not

Then when are you going to stop acting like an ass? Answer - Should be interesting.

 

He is doing a good job of blowing the big picture.  When son leaves he might just keep going and never come back. He needs to know there is a floor underneath him and ask advice, then make his own decisions. 

 

When he tumbles somewhere as he is likely to do - it is not an opportunity to say "I told you so", it is an opportunity listen and wait to ask "what are you thinking about doing next?"  Hope that leads to a adult and rationale discussion of where he is at that point in his life and that he is willing to take some good Mom & Dad advice.

I don't know your son, your husband or you.  So I'm a little reluctant to weigh in, cause family dynamics are tricky and way above my pay grade.

 

But I will say this. I admit that there are definitely time when a kid needs and deserves a stern uncompromising message from a parent.  I mean if a kid is blowing off his schoolwork, running with the druggies and is in danger of really and truly screwing up his life chances, then you have to do everything that's within your power to try to wake the kid up to the bed of roses he's planting for himself. 

But also have to say that it's darned hard for me to  imagine how, in the context of baseball, a dad can be driven to say "you'll never make anything of your life"  (especially if the kid is not a general purpose screwup --and I've hardly met a kid who has stuck with baseball all the way through HS of whom that could be said.)  I can't for the life of me figure out a scenario that would even tempt me to want to say that to a kid or really young man. 

 

Baseball is a great thing.  I love the sport and love even more that my son loves the sport and has worked so hard at it.  But the fact is baseball is totally OPTIONAL.  There are many, many versions of a well lived life that do not include baseball.

 

 That's a way of saying that your  husband definitely needs to chill.  And as somebody said above, it has to be your son's dream.  And the parents role is just to empower and enable the dreamer.  It's not their role to make the dream come true.  It's not their role to pursue the dream on behalf of the son.   

 

Like Slugger Dad, I don't know you -- I'm just replying to a very short post from a stranger on a discussion group, not the 3-dimensonal people that you and your family are in real life. 

 

That said, I agree with Luv Baseball and Slugger Dad. This doesn't sound like a good or a healthy situation. Unfortunately that's all too common in father-son relationships.

 

You know the old Mark Twain quote?

 

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

 

There may be some of that to it, but as described it's more like the old story you see in movies, books, and real life too often - a hardass dad whose son is never good enough for him, often because he's bitter about his own failures, tries to live through his son's successes, but also roots for his failure to validate his own feelings of disappointment in him.

 

It's getting pretty late, cause your son is an adult now and like Luv Baseball says, he could go away at any moment and never come back.  Who could blame him?   But as long as he's around I'd think about family therapy with a shrink or a minister or anybody who can get through to dad what he should have learned a few years back -- that it's not his baseball career, or his life. It's your son's career to do what he will with it.  Dad should either support him as best he can, and if he can't enjoy it on those terms, just butt the hell out.

 

Your son at this point is too old for his dad to tell him what to do, and if your son really wanted to play ball in college he is late in the process

and should have taken care of business before he graduated.

Maybe your husband is frustrated with your son. Your son should have had plans to continue his education one way or another, either 2, 4 year program or a technical school.  

There are always two sides to every story.

Sit down with them both and find out what your son really wants to do.

 

This advice coming from a mom.

I help run a travel ball organization and I see this all the time.  Your husband needs to let your son be a man and decide what he wants to do.  As parents we need to be there for guidance when they reach his age.  As much as we want to we can't do it all for our kids.  They have to grow up at some point.  

 

Letting go of our kids is one of the hardest things to do as a parent but it also should be one of our proudest moments.  Knowing that we have instilled good values, work ethics and personal skills in our kids.  

 

As others have said your son could end up being very bitter to his father's actions.

 FWIW.

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing  for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you, yet they belong not to  you.

           

You may give them your love but not your thoughts.

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make  them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with  yesterday.

           

You are the bows from which your children as living  arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the  infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for  gladness;

For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He  loves also the bow that is stable.

Taken from "The Prophet" Kahlil Gibran

There is an old Conway Twitty song called "That's my job" and one of the verses says "Later we barely got along, this teenage boy and he
Most of the fights it  seems were over different dreams
We each held for me"

As a mom, find out what your son's dreams are.  Are they aligned with your husbands? I know kids that attempted to play college ball b/c they felt that was what was expected.  My son and many other son's will tell you that college baseball is not for everyone.  It is a long hard road. Yes my son loves it but there are days that he would say, "sometimes I wish I was just a normal college student".  I would ask if he wanted to quit and he says no; he was either just tired or frustrated, etc.  Does your son think this is what is expected and he doesn't have a say?   There are talks that only moms can have with their sons and there are talks that only wives can have with their husbands; and I think you need to have one with each of them.

Good luck!!

Hard to tell if the "baseball dad" portion of this is a symptom or the cause.  These teen years are tough.  A lot of hormones restrict a kid's ability to "filter", and as adults, we have to choose our moments of what are parenting moments and what needs to be overlooked for the greater good.

 

If I were in your situation, I would ask your husband what his intentions are with the constant "coaching"?  Exactly what is it he's trying to achieve?  Are his comments really pointing out anything that your son doesn't already know?  Is your son honestly improving because of these nuggets of wisdom?

 

Then let him know that the constant tension is destroying three relationships in the family, Help him understand that he can completely reverse this by not instigating these episodes (if what you describe above is correct, then all is well until you husband brings things up).  Ask him if he can possibly swallow his tongue for two weeks and see what the results are.  See if the mood improves and your son's game declines.  My guess is that you son will continue to do what he does at the same level and that things will improve in the general mood.  

 

As a father, we often feel that we can simply teach our kids from making some of the same mistakes we made in life, all with the goal of helping them have things better than ourselves.  Sometimes we have to sit back and know that the best lessons he'll learn are those that he learns the hard way.  Not easy to do, but sometime necessary.  I did most of my "fathering" before he ever reached 15.  I look at my role between 15 and 19 to keep him alive.  Even though they check out for a few years, when they come out on the other side, all the values instilled that took a hiatus return.  I've lived it first hand with my oldest and now have the joy of reliving with the youngest.

 

Good luck.  

 

Yep.  Otherwise this is headed for trouble.  Your husband needs to let go.  Your son has crossed that stage at high school graduation....he is a man and he needs to be treated that way.  He'll learn life isn't easy and maybe Dad was trying to help all along.  

 

These are the hard lessons of fathers and sons.  Sometimes its easier and sometimes it harder. I butted heads with my Dad when he was around.  I'm fortunate my sons have made my life easier. As always, JMO.

 

Good luck!

I'm thinking this is deeper then just baseball.  At this age your son is resenting being told what to do and your husband is acting out over having his authority usurped by what he perceives as a subordinate.  Thing is at this age the relationship between the father and son has to change.  The son is now an adult and needs to make decisions on his own.  The son is wanting this freedom, and needs to have it.  The father does not want to let it go, but needs to. Its a tough thing to change the father son dynamic.  My oldest is now a jr. in college and we have gone through it.  Fortunately my wife, who works with youths, sat me down very early on and explained it to me.  

 

Your husband needs to take a step back and let your son make his own decision and thrive or fail on his own.  He needs to trust that you have raised him properly and he can do this on his own.  Your job as parents has now changed.  You now need to stand back and keep your mouths shut unless your son asks for help.  Your job is to be there when he needs you or if he fails; to help him out of it.  At this point, the only time you can really expect to step in and try to put your foot down is if you see he is making a decision that will ruin his life (ie drop out of school for a girl, etc).

 

The summer between HS and college as well as the when he comes home for the summer after his frosh year are the toughest times for this.  You will eventually figure it out.  

We need to remember that there are two sides to the OP's story.  It could be spot on or exaggerated.  This wouldn't be the first father to be overly harsh on his kid. 

The way I treated my oldest son would probably make the OP's husband look like a saint.   

 

Somehow my oldest was able to make it as a well adjusted young man with a bright future. Thankfully I have plenty of kids so my 3rd oldest son gets a mild mannered Dad who keeps his mouth shut during games unless shouting positive encouragement. 

Thank all of you for sharing different points of view. We were at a game last night, husband vented everything my son should've done, when and how he should've done it. It's already past, nobody can change any of it. His point of view is if son can't handle his criticism he'll never make it in college because everybody will telling him what to do and how to do it to make him better constantly. After sitting quietly for awhile I decided to reply with "That's their job. If he can't handle it then he lives with whatever consequences might be. Our job is to be there for him no matter the outcome." I don't think he liked it but the rest of the night we clapped, laughed and just enjoyed watching him play. My son is a straight A's, four year two sport athlete, shows great sportsmanship and character on and off the field. I'm very proud of him regardless; that'll be my frame of mind going forward.Thanks again to all of you. 

Big difference between being Dad and being a Coach.  As a dad who helped coach my son through his pre-HS years, I still have feedback for him.  However, I have found that I need to be discerning about when I share that with him.  Coming off a bad outing, it is often best to not say anything right away.  He knows he did bad.  We are honest with each other and sometimes all I will say is "Well, that wasn't very good".  He'll usually respond with "Yeah, I know" and I'll just let him know he'll get them next time.  We'll leave it at that.  Maybe later that night or the next day I'll ask him if he wants to know what I saw.  Sometimes he says yes, sometimes he says no.  It's up to him.

 

When he's struggling, I've asked him if he wants me to just watch or maybe does he want a video of him pitching.  Most of the time, he says to take some video.  After he pitches,  he'll ask to see it.  I'll ask what he sees and what he felt on the mound and most of the time he notices the same thing I do.  So, I'll just remind him that he needs to recognize that in the moment and make the adjustment.

 

My son, obviously, is a pitcher.  He will be a senior in college this year.  He will still listen to my advice, but it has taken a lot of work on my part about when to give it to him, when not to give it to him and when to nudge him in the right direction to figure it out on his own.  I am his dad, not his coach.  His coach can say whatever he wants whenever he wants.  I have to find a balance between keeping our relationship and helping him achieve his goals.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a "baseball dad".  As long as our kids play, we will all be "baseball dads or moms".  What we are not is our kid's "baseball coach".  Coach has a different role than we do.

Mom - Far be it from me to give parenting advice, I know over the years I've made many many mistakes.  In fact, please don't see this as advice, but my just passing along the experience I have seen by having a kid a few years ahead of yours in college.  

 

From what I have seen schools don't tell kids what to do and how to do it.  What they do is set expectations and then leave it up to the kids to meet those expectations. Your very rarely going to find a prof that says "Your paper is due on X date.  It needs to be typed up with 5 paragraphs, contain 350 words and be exactly 1 page of paper long.  It needs to be on this subsubject within this subject and should contain these points."  Instead what you get is a syllabus at the beginning of a class that lists out the general requirements and what is needed to obtain them.  At some point during the year the prof will say, "Papers on X subject will be due this week".  There is not a lot of "telling you how to do it".

 

Now this is a little advice.  Most likely (unless your son has already committed or is actively talking to a school) this is going to be the last year you can see him play.  Sit back and enjoy the games.  

Maybe I'm wrong - but I think its tough to paint an accurate picture over the internet sometimes/most times.

 

Some of this situation is a bit of natural tension between the triangle of mom, dad and son; dad tries to toughen kid up, give his version of real feedback....mom protecting her boy with the soft spot she is supposed to have....and son trying to spread his wings.

 

Most of the time, this is good and I bet its mostly good here too.

 

But speaking of this story and video - it turns out I'm a pretty decent photographer.  Not a pro - but I have actually had a few shots (baseball) published and I once got to shoot the CWS as a 'stand-in' on the field.

 

Anyways - I used to shoot our older son's college team for fun - then give the photos I took to the players and parents.  One dad in particular loved these shots - but his pitcher-son, not so much.  It seemed 'dad' would get these, download them, analyze them then call or email his son about everything that was wrong with his mechanics.  Now his son was a very good college pitcher who spent a little time in the pros - but I don't think he liked my photos making their way to his dad very much. 

I can say this is not the case for most college baseball players. You are told what is expected of you early on, eg: be a good student, be on time, respect the game, be a good teammate, work hard, hustle, etc. If those expectations aren't met, they will get on you, some harder than others. In terms of making physical or mental mistakes, yes, sometimes they will fly off their rocker, but most of they time they understand because they were ballplayers themselves.

 

I never once had a college coach nitpick at anything I did. If there were things off, it was always a learning experience. Typically they want you to figure out the problem yourself and if you cannot, they tell you what they see. I cannot think of a single instance I was told of "my mistakes" after the game. When I got chewed out it was because I was being an idiot. If I came into a game and got roughed up, the worst thing that happened is I wouldn't get a pat on my rear end and my coach wouldn't say a word as I handed him the ball.

 

I am glad the rest of the night went well for you guys.

As a photographer who has run a sports action business for years (finally went to law school, but still do it), this is spot on. Moms and Dads are looking at pictures totally differently. Mom's looking at his face and Dad is looking at mechanics.

Some of this situation is a bit of natural tension between the triangle of mom, dad and son; dad tries to toughen kid up, give his version of real feedback....mom protecting her boy with the soft spot she is supposed to have....and son trying to spread his wings.

 

I really like this description of the family dynamic.  As I mentioned previously, I was "that dad" often, when Ryno was younger, but I have worked hard to back off and let him become a man.  He is a great kid, but as a father, you still see areas where you feel you can add input and help him get better.  Unfortunately, they do need to learn some things the hard way. 

 

In her last post, I believe the OP was trying to say that she thinks her husband needs to back off, and let the coaches do their job.  Earlier I mentioned the "good cop/bad cop".  Sometime ago, I realized that letting the coaches be the "bad cop" was much more productive for my relationship with my son.  It is not always easy, but in order for us to move forward and have a productive adult relationship, I have to hold back my critiques sometimes.

Wow, some GREAT posts...turning into a golden-worthy thread.

 

As a long time coach, it has been my nature to use coaching and critiquing often as my parenting method.  I've had to learn the hard way that this is, in many situations, NOT an effective approach.  It was most difficult with my youngest, who is the most competitive, athletically gifted and driven and, therefore (in my mind anyway), would suffer the most if I didn't give the fullest coaching efforts at all times.  HA HA HA HA. 

Fortunately, I learned early enough that the opposite was true.  As he made his way into HS years, I discovered that the more I pulled back from "coaching" him off the field, the more he would come to me for any help he felt he needed.  There is no doubt in my mind that this point, along with assuring him that we love him as a person and not as an athlete, has made the difference between having an amazingly good father/son relationship and having one that would have been quite fractured.  Not saying that I didn't give in to temptation and natural instincts at times but awareness was an absolute necessity.  Awareness of the types of things being pointed out in this thread and on this site on a regular basis.

 

For OP, I would add that, even though it is quite late in the process, it is not too late for Dad to shift his approach.  In fact, I'm sure son is going through plenty of extra pressure trying to figure out his college and career path with the clock ticking harder and harder by the minute.  If ever he needed to know that Mom AND Dad are there in full support, regardless of direction, regardless of decision, this is probably that time.

This really is a tough one.  Agreed about the mom dad child triangle.  When my son and I even discuss the probability he will be a pitcher only someday mom jumps right in to say how I don't believe in him and he is a great hitter etc. etc.   He is a good hitter for his level.  Not great.  And he WILL eventually be a PO unless he winds up at a very low level school.  Son is fine with this and although I won't lie I will miss watching him play/hit everyday I am mentally prepared for it as well.  Momma bear not so much.  Where is the line separating helping your son and giving him a little facts of life talk when needed and crossing over into counterproductive territory?  Very hard to tell.  We all make statements out of frustration.  I am sure your husband is not truly convinced your son will never make anything of his life.  Like all of us who say hurtful things to spouses and children alike we should not do it but we are human.  I think the key is like Buckeye implied, is it the kids dream?  In the long run is father son interaction productive?  I don't coach my son even though I have a coaching background.  I did one year.  Don't like it.  I would rather watch.  But of course I coach him mechanically.   Last year at 12 I thought maybe it was time to let go some.  I am not a big fan of paid instruction but I paid for 10 pitching lessons.  My son's velocity and everything stagnated.  He told me (unsolicited) that he preferred working with me and asked that I resume being his 'pitching coach'.  I was very touched that he asked me to do that for him.  If you asked my wife she would say I am terrible to her little boy.  And I will raise the guilty hand knowing I have crossed that line a few times.  Not proud of it just a fact.  But I love my son far more than I love baseball.  And I continue to struggle with how far is too far and try to respect those boundaries.   But in the long run here is what is important:  it is his dream not mine, we have a great relationship and he knows I love him and when I do cross a line I apologize and we talk about it.  I ask him constantly is this still what you want?  My opinion is if you are going to tell me its your dream then my role is to help hold you to it.  Same for my swimmer son.  I know nothing about swimming so he is off the hook for any technical advice.  And in a way that is more enjoyable.   I am just his fan.  But when he says he doesn't want to go to practice...  then we have a conversation.  My swimmer son is the absolute #1 long distance swimmer in the state at his age (not age group which encompasses two ages).  That is my quick brag moment.  I am very proud of both of them but also need to lay the hammer down from time to time about committment to excellence.  Its a dad's job!  Let's just hope we all do it to the best of our ability and in a way that works for father and most importantly son!

Lots of good advice here

I too am a a baseball Dad...For those others out there it can be a passion, or addiction in ways whether we like to admit it or not...i think a lot of us are frankly just competitive folks in a lot of ways and that comes out when we go to the games.  My perspective from experience is like some others have stated...make sure you understand your son's goals and drive and also your own and separate the two...it will be clear at some point if your son is driven or not.  The really driven ones will likely seek your advice on baseball or otherwise only when they feel they really need it, and thats OK...they may fall a few times but no fall will likely be a "career" changer that is too huge to recover from etc...its important to remember to never say anything you cant take back no matter how frustrated Dad becomes...teenage kids are likely to do and say dumb things...they are allowed a few "reboots" Dads should be a little more mature though and know better cause kids remember hurtful words well.

At the end of the day, a good trusting relationship is something that will outlast both thier baseball years. 

I really liked the comment on having a bad day at work and having someone point out your mistakes...that hit home for me...There came a point where my son came to me and said..."please dont talk to me right after the game...just let me cool down sometimes first"...he felt like he needed a little cool off period to deflate and reflect on his own...it really reminded me of something my wife suggested i do after a frustrating day at work...she suggested sitting in my car im the driveway a few minutes and adjusting my attitude before i came in the house to see the family.  Nowadays my son just texts me or asks me for my thoughts later...i gladly supply my feedback and advice and its better recieved/welcomed that way...when asked for.

I also have been lucky enough to play alongside my son in a men's league and that is a hoot...kinda hurts your pride (and makes you proud at the same time) when he hits at the top of the lineup and starts every game while you dont...its also fun when he gets his chance to offer Dad some advice...its interesting and kinda funny to be on the flip side of that equation.

Interestingly enough my daughter plays competitive softball but we never have this issue because, she never seeks out my advice and although competitive no doubt, she is a little less "driven" than my son...she says "i dont know anything about softball" and funny enough im ok with that and am just fine to offer nothing but hugs and smiles after the games