Baseball Program Philosophy

Right or wrong, at my son's 5A program they are expected to run a sub 6:00 mile to be on the varsity. I can't speak to the rationale other than to say it's one measure of a kid's overall condition and if known before hand, level of desire/commitment to play on the team.

As for the instructional part, it seems if your coaches want to win, they would be bending over backwards to instruct where needed. However, I can understand the hesitancy for some coaches to change fundamental approaches. Many kids playing at the highest levels do have their own hitting/pitching instructors that they've been working with for years. To have conflicting messages could result in confusion and lack of productivity. Baseball is so mental that a player needs to have a simple, consistent, clear approach and not thinking about different approaches for different coaches. All that being said, the coach fills out the lineup card and if the player wants to be in the lineup, he should be doing everything possible to please the coach.

IMO, debates on coaches and philosophies may be interesting but can be counterproductive if the kids get involved -- i.e. I've seen kids at various levels use it as an excuse rather than focus on getting better.

Seems like there are almost as many approaches and philosophies to the game as there are coaches and each is borne of their own personal experiences, successes and failures. Some will be right and some wrong but in the end it won't matter to the kids involved here and now. I'd also add that I doubt a coaches philosophy is as simple as what can be put into 3 short paragraphs (e.g. if Nolan Ryan can't run a 6 minute mile I'm pretty sure they'd find a place for him anyway).

My advice (admittedly not worth much) is to tell your child that if the coach wants a 6 minute mile he better do the things necessary to be able to run that and if the coach isn't going to instruct, you better find outside instuctors to develop in areas he needs help. Not trying to be critical at all but a focus on what the coach isn't doing v. focusing on what the kid needs to do to get to where he wants to go, is counterproductive.

Question still stands; What does being a great 1600 meter runner have to do with baseball? I will and have taken the approach of just do it. But that kind of thought process may limit the amount of participation you have in your program.

Example: Lets say you have a incoming freshman that has played VERY high select baseball and plays football. Many times in big schools kids decide to specialize in one sport. If the baseball program has a pre-requisite of sub 6:00 in the 1600 or you get cut, then the kid will find something else to do. What if that kid decides to play football only?

Here is how it works. The freshmen walk on campus and want to sign up for the basbeball program. First day they are dragged to the track and told to run a mile. The potential players that are over the 6:00 will have to change there schedule. Is this smart? The potential players are not aware of the requirement, thus many have not trained for this.

Do I think a sub min 1600 should be a requirement. If coach says so--then yes whether I agree or not. it is his program to win or lose (and be fired ) with. Do i agree with it--from a baseball standpoint not necessarily depending on kid--but again it is his program.

And if a freshman, or any incoming player for that matter, is not aware of the requirement and thus not trained for it, then I would say they have not done their homework about what the baseball program expects of its players.

Does running a mile have anything to do with baseball? Maybe not, but like has been said already, if the coach wants a 6:00 mile then run it under 6:00. Coaches are looking for guys that will go above and beyond the abilities they "think" they have.

P.S. If he can throw 90 then that time goes up to 8:00.

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Originally posted by tmmbj:

Example: Lets say you have a incoming freshman that has played VERY high select baseball

Just to **** a few people off, not sure what a "VERY high level" of summer ball has to do with anything, or even what that really is. It's still essentially Little League age and kids are going to improve or stay static come high school.

The coach may want to see who will to make the effort and sacrifice to make the team and who is going to complain on message boards. That would be my philosophy if I was the coach.

Thank you Ironhorse, your words are so kind. I am not complaining, just looking for thoughts. Like I said and will tell my son. Shut up and get your time down under 6:00. It is that simple but I am just trying to learn the reason because I know there are coaches on this board.

I think it sounds strange that the pre-requisite to play high school ball is a sub 6:00 mile. No other sport I have ever heard of have such requirements. I guess we will get with a great distance coach and spend the summer and fall working on our endurance instead of our pitching mechanics and batting tech.

In McKinney you can't run the mile unless you can throw a baseball 80mph.

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No other sport I have ever heard of have such requirements.

Might want to talk to few of the Cowboys who played under Landry. As I understand it, all positions had mile time they had to finish under--or incur the wrath of Landry (if they stayed on team).

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Originally posted by tmmbj:
I am just trying to learn the reason because I know there are coaches on this board.

And I thought I gave a good reason. He is trying to find out who's willing to put forth effort and sacrifice.

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I agree it's the coach's decision -- and possibly his loss if that's a non-negotiable criteria. He could also make it mandatory to do 25 push-ups, 25 pull-ups and 100 sit-ups after running said mile. However, IMO, I would rather put the stop watch on home to first, home to second and first to home. Last time I looked, baseball players weren't running laps around the field during the game. Physical conditioning is no doubt critical in baseball these days, but running is just one way to measure it. I've had a lot of big-bomber first basemen, third basemen and catchers who couldn't run a sub-six minute mile if the police were chasing them, but I wouldn't have given up their hits and RBIs for anything.

And I thought I gave a good reason. He is trying to find out who's willing to put forth effort and sacrifice.



Ironhorse- I love your wit. I fully understand effort and sacrifice etc. But lets be real for a second. I would bet there are 70% of major league player that would fail the sub 6:00 mile. May be I am smoking crack but long running endurance does not make great basbeball players. Cage time and lots of play make great baseball players.

We will do it and like it but I think it is interesting to say the least. I still want to hear from DBAT coaches, Dallas Tigers coaches etc, on what they run there propsective players thru during a try-out. Do they throw them, run them, have them field ground balls and pops or do they run them on a timed mile?

Unless things have changed a lot, you'll lose that bet (70% of big leaguers...). The SLOWEST mile requirement I ever saw during spring training was 6:30.

All good comments on the 6 minute mile, but like a lot of you said, if the coach requires it, then you have to do what the King in his Kingdom says. Our HS coach takes another approach...he says and I quote "the more weights you lift, the better you will play baseball". Needless to say, requiring kids to lift maximum weights has caused injuries. Although hard for me to do, I have said nothing (being a freshman dad), I haven't even introduced myself to the varsity coach and don't intend to do so. Will zip my mouth for the next three years. Many of the parents advised me to do so and I will. Any other strange requirements that HS coaches mandate to their kids?

TMMBJ....I think the coaches philosophy is easy to understand. He has a program that he has an abundance of players. He has sent an important requirement for his team and the 6:00 minute mile helps him make some cut the numbers down.

If the 6 minute mile is a problem, I suggest you find a different program.

I know it is the coach and his program and he can basically do what he wants within reason but requiring a 6:00 mile, which is pretty common from what I hear, makes just as much sense to a baseball player as having them hit 10 free throws and a 250 yard drive.

To run a mile in one game a player would have to hit 14 HRs and a double. Now that would be quite a slugging percentage!

Sometimes for us HS coaches it is as much about the mental toughness of running that mile than it is actually the time. The time is a way of seeing who has been doing the extra work.

Are you mentally tough enough to complete the task or not?

I want players that are.

I was a high school coach that required a sub six minute mile to play varsity ball. It was done to 1) judge the level of committment a player was willing to make 2) show a slower less athletic kid that anything is possible if you set your mind to it 3) help develope a TEAM because they all had accomplished it 4) give my team a phycological edge over our opponents. 5) most have quit reading by now. I never in 18 years as a Varsity coach had a kid not make it. Many looked like they had won the lottory when they achieved their time. Celebrations always followed the last man to make it. Team mates would pace the last man standing to aid him in his efforts. I had 63 players move on and play at the next level and most would visit and inquire if we were still running that mile. Most would comment how that helped them in life after HS ball. There are many programs that win games that don't run it and many that win games that do run it. IMO be thankful that your coach requires it and start training like a mad man and you'll spend your time more wisely that questioning his philosophy.

I never said we would not run it. We will run the mile and love it. BUT what if you have a kid that really is good at baseball and he does not make the mile run? Do you cut him loose for this?

If I ever had a kid that has having a hard time I took him to the track myself and taught him interval training. Second phase if that failed was take him out in the country. Third step was find a road straight and down hill with the wind at his back. Bottom line was they all have made it and are proud of it.

let a slow running 90mph throwing lefty show up and I bet he changes the rule

It's not so much to punish slow kids as it is to find a way to help them find a way to achieve a tough goal. Your coach isn't going to sit there and let out a satisfying laugh with each kid that fails. He's going to try to find a way to help them succeed if he's worth his salt.

This is all much ado about nothing...

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Originally posted by cball:
let a slow running 90mph throwing lefty show up and I bet he changes the rule

And I bet he helps the kid find a way to succeed.

A timed mile isn't about speed it's about heart. If he throws 90 and has no heart he's gonna let you down in the long run anyway.

I sure would like to hear Funneldrill and Ken Guthries opinion !!!

OK- enough on the mile thing. What about telling multiple parents that they will NOT instruct your child? Is this OK. Believe or not I coached for 6 years in high schoola around the state of Texas, from AA-AAAA. We never told parents, "You know what we are going to fill out a line up and not coach your kid, if you got a hicup in your mechanics or swing you are **** out of luck".

Again just looking for feedback because we will get private instruction and always have, but what about kids that do not have the means? Should a coach not impart there wisdom upon a 15-18 year old? Not to instruct is crazy. What if the offensive Line coach told the players he will not instruct on tech and they need to get private lin drills and such? Is this good?

tmmbj, you from "east of dallas" by any chance?

Swingdoctor - are you the very famous high school coach who broke in a sophomore to varsity baseball with a road trip to Paris, Tx?

Grodster- nope

Still have not heard from anyone on the philosophy of telling a kid to go and get private instruction because the HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL COACH IS NOT AN INSTRUCTOR.

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Originally posted by longballs:
I sure would like to hear Funneldrill and Ken Guthries opinion !!!

There isn't much to add that hasn't already been said by Swingdoctor and TurnTwo.

In my first spring training as a Brewer, the whole minor league organization had to run a 6 minute mile.

As a summer coach, we do not run the mile simply because we don't have enough time to spend on things besides baseball itself. One advantage HS coaches have over summer coaches is time to build team chemistry. Swingdoctor touches on this with his post. Adversity builds a team. A 6 minute mile can be adversity.

Lastly, year 2000 in Baltimore and 2 years away from the game as a player. Rusty and I were having an argument over player conditioning in the dugout of Camden Yards during a rain delay. I popped off and said "I haven't done squat in almost 3 years and I can still run a 6 minute mile." The dugout erupted and cash rewards were flying all over the place.

The next day I showed up early to the park with first base coach Ed Napolean "Nappy" and strength coach Tim Lang. Rusty and I agreed 4 times around the warning track would be a mile.

After the first lap I thought I was going to die. Literally.

But with a bunch of cash on the line I wasn't quitting.

5 minutes 55 seconds was my time.

That day I learned "mind over matter" was even more powerful that I originally thought.

I was also $4500 richer.

You claim that on your taxes KG?

Current Bull Pen Catcher for the Club ran a 5:05 back in the day gut, and didn't get anything but a smile. Man ~ wages have sure gone down hill in MLB.
OK tmmbj I'll bite on the instruction portion of your question. It's insane to tell a kid you're not gonna help him! From how to properly put on your pants and leggings, and shine your shoes, all the way to how to wear a hat. Offense - Defense - are in there as well. Trip to Paris Texas would never be believed by anyone on this forum. You actually got your debut at Richardson High School field when I sent you to umpires mtg with the lineup and you were in it. Shock!

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Originally posted by tmmbj:
OK- enough on the mile thing. What about telling multiple parents that they will NOT instruct your child? Is this OK. Believe or not I coached for 6 years in high schoola around the state of Texas, from AA-AAAA. We never told parents, "You know what we are going to fill out a line up and not coach your kid, if you got a hicup in your mechanics or swing you are **** out of luck".

Again just looking for feedback because we will get private instruction and always have, but what about kids that do not have the means? Should a coach not impart there wisdom upon a 15-18 year old? Not to instruct is crazy. What if the offensive Line coach told the players he will not instruct on tech and they need to get private lin drills and such? Is this good?

My advice is to tell your kid not to try out. You are either the kind of parent coaches can't stand or the kind of kid that makes so many excuses he isn't fun to coach. Play s****r.

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Originally posted by ironhorse:

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Originally posted by tmmbj:
OK- enough on the mile thing. What about telling multiple parents that they will NOT instruct your child? Is this OK. Believe or not I coached for 6 years in high schoola around the state of Texas, from AA-AAAA. We never told parents, "You know what we are going to fill out a line up and not coach your kid, if you got a hicup in your mechanics or swing you are **** out of luck".

Again just looking for feedback because we will get private instruction and always have, but what about kids that do not have the means? Should a coach not impart there wisdom upon a 15-18 year old? Not to instruct is crazy. What if the offensive Line coach told the players he will not instruct on tech and they need to get private lin drills and such? Is this good?

My advice is to tell your kid not to try out. You are either the kind of parent coaches can't stand or the kind of kid that makes so many excuses he isn't fun to coach. Play s****r.

Ironhorse- why the hostility? So what you are saying if a parent (you assume I am a parent of a high school kid, I am not) has a question about the program and a philosophy, then they are bad and the team does not need them? That is odd to say the least. This board has very good baseball minds and lots of coaches. I am not a great baseball coach/mind. I am looking feedback. Lots of folks responded about the 6 minute mile and now I get it and support it. I asked another question about how much instruction a basebal coach should give and your intellegent response is DON'T PLAY. That is stupid and I hope you are not a coach. If the majority of folks on this board say it is acceptable for a coach to tell a parent he will not instruct them, I will go with it, just like the 6 minute mile thing. You have added no value to the topic but negativity. So tell me Ironhorse, if you had a kid entering high school and the coach told you that he will not instruct your child on anything, how would that sit with you?

tmmbj--I guess another question to address is what is your agenda here. Are you trying to gather support or opinions to confront the coach, or looking for support to bolster your position regarding the coach. I also find it hard to fathom that a high school coach,or any coach for that matter, seriously says he is not going to instruct a player. What will practice consist of then--rolling balls out for the kids to figure out what to do with??? Hitting ground balls with no feedback??? etc. I think we are missing a large part of the whole story here.

Where is Paul Harvey when you need him?

Texdex- good question. There is no agenda other than to gain an understanding. I will NEVER confront any coach. It is there program and I can live with it or go away. I really do not care if I put my kid in private school. I am just trying to understand. Let me clarify what instruction is. The head baseball coach said "We are not instructors, if your son has a problem then go get it fixed". I am sure they run practices and such. Keep in mind this was from a two high school parents. I guess the question is, are high school kids EXPECTED to have private instructors? I realize many do on their own, but is this expected to the extent the high school coach picks kids they do not have to really spend time working the fundamentals with?

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Originally posted by tmmbj:

Ironhorse- why the hostility? So what you are saying if a parent (you assume I am a parent of a high school kid, I am not) has a question about the program and a philosophy, then they are bad and the team does not need them? That is odd to say the least. This board has very good baseball minds and lots of coaches. I am not a great baseball coach/mind. I am looking feedback. Lots of folks responded about the 6 minute mile and now I get it and support it. I asked another question about how much instruction a basebal coach should give and your intellegent response is DON'T PLAY. That is stupid and I hope you are not a coach. If the majority of folks on this board say it is acceptable for a coach to tell a parent he will not instruct them, I will go with it, just like the 6 minute mile thing. You have added no value to the topic but negativity. So tell me Ironhorse, if you had a kid entering high school and the coach told you that he will not instruct your child on anything, how would that sit with you?

The hostility is because you have some sort of agenda here. You tried to bash a coach on one issue and got no real support. So you crawfished and tried to hammer another (much more fictional) issue.

If a coach told you, in person, that he would not be instructing any kids this year, go straight to your AD. Period. I have a feeling this didn't actually happen. So you came to a message board.

This all just sounds way too unbelievable. More than likely the issue is with you or the player, not the coach.

Ironhorse- I see your point but believe me I have no agenda. I am just looking for thought process, that is all. Your point is well taken and observed.

Actually if you look at the original post I asked two questions, not separate. I now support the 6:00 mile because of the educated feedback I have received and I actually see value in that task. I do not like to see coaches put this requirement on kids to thin the herd, so to speak. If a kid cannot hit, pitch, field etc. Then cut them, but do not cut them just because they are slow in the mile. That makes more sense.

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Here's a twist for you in the other direction. High school coach tells boys on first day that they are not to get any outside instruction, period. They'll learn everything they need to know by showing up to practice each day. If he finds out a boy is taking lessons, boy won't play. That's either extreme confidence or an extreme ego. Team record over a three year period was sub-.500.

I'll chime in on that as well. Our staff tried to keep a happy medium on private instruction. We didn't mind it at all involving hitting. A player getting extra cuts can only help unless instructor is telling him one way and his HS coach is telling him another. Confuses a kid much like the dinner table at home. However ~ we let a kid that was struggling and I mean struggling bad that the outside help wasn;t happening and he needed to start listening to us. Very gray area but it was never a problem. Pitching is different once we start playing. Pitchers get charted on every pitch they throw and a count is monitored by the staff and outside philosophys as well as wear and tear on the arm spells disaster. One coach and that coach needed to be at school. Never saw a private instructors name in a newspaper article describing the downturn of a team and the losses they might be incurring. If the coach is going to be held accountable IMO he should have a right to call those shots. Football Coaches that drew the short straw and were assigned Baseball ~ That's a whole nother thread. All I can say is "Bless your hearts"