Bishop Sullivan Catholic HS

You're giving them too much credit for calling it a "program". It's an intramural sport as far as the school is concerned.

The Swoope brothers certainly should have been given due consideration for 1st team selections. Steven out hit the whole conference. There were one or two others who could have been 2nd team selections as well but without an advocate at the meeting that will never happen.

That is the worst part....the boys who deserve some consideration are not going to get it. When the other coaches don't have a complete picture with true stats or someone there to speak up for them it a real shame. It's not right and the players are the ones that suffer.

One correction.....Nick Ott also made second team.

vavals-do you have a listing of those who made all-conference?

quote:

Originally posted by headinghome:
First Team
Jack Wynkoop, Cape Henry
Tyler Rameriz, Cape Henry
Robbie Lanthrop, Greenbrier
Anthony Waldner, Nansemond-Suffolk
Kyle Rosso, Norfolk Collegiate
Matt Matthews, Greenbrier
Taylor Edens, Nansemond-Suffolk
Sean Poppen, Cape Henry
James Bedi, Greenbrier
Mitch Owens, Walsingham

Second Team
Byrce Myers, Greenbrier
Jared Mitchell, Greenbrier
Colin Ballard, Cape Henry
Jeff Swoope, Bishop Sullivan
Steven Swoope, Bishop Sullivan
Nick Ott, Bishop Sullivan
Sean Frazier, Norfolk Collegiate
Brian Vincent, Hampton Roads Academy
Henry Hill, Hampton Roads Academy
Sean Frazier, Norfolk Collegiate
Ross Kazakis, Norfolk Academy
Davis Bailey, Norfolk Christian

You have Sean Frazier listed twice...was there another player instead? Greenbrier's player is Robby Lathrop.

I'm assuming Jack Wyncoop was the POY?

quote:

Originally posted by vavals:
For the second year in a row neither the head coach or the AD had time to show up for the TCIS coaches meeting last night. With the fact that the stats on MaxPrep are flat out wrong or not even entered it was impossible for any of the players from BSCHS to stand a chance. Thanks to coaches from the other TCIS teams Jeffrey & Steven Swoope made second team.... congratulations! The school and the AD should be ashamed of how the program has fallen!

This is a **** shame, I would not call them coaches by the way, more like adults in the dugout, never seen them "coach" and practices are a joke, and yes I have seen them "practice" on a few occasions.

Playright....the biggest problem has been the AD for years. He doesn't support baseball and in turn doesn't support having baseball "coaches". Until that changes the school will never have a baseball team let alone a baseball program. When you can't use the field until 2 weeks before the season and you can't use it over the summer or in the fall the school will never have a competitive team. This is the reason that so many players go from 8th grade at one of the catholic schools to another private school or public school to play.

The principal and AD did away with fall ball and all other "out of season sports" 4 years ago as they believed it was a drain on participation in fall sports (read: football). This was the beginning of the end for the program.

Winter workouts were limited as the availability of the indoor bubble was taken by the loacl indoor s***** league. Only a handful of players did anything related to baseball before the first tryout in the spring. It's no surprise that several of their pitchers missed starts due to arm problems over the last few seasons.

I'm not sure how anyone could function in a coaching capacity in that environment. I don't expect the program will be competitive in the years to come.

When the AD fired the last head coach who had finished with the #10 team in the state, he stated he wanted to take the program in a different direction. He was successful. It is definitely headed in a different direction; DOWN. Part time coaches who are both incompetent and uncaring have destroyed a good program.

Birddog....your right and let me clarify my comments. We both know that the last coach was "handcuffed" by the rules that the administration and AD put on the baseball team and no other sports. The current coach took the job knowing the rules and has done exactly what the AD has wanted. All of the issues have started with the AD and the administration and the belief that athletics are just an activity that can only be played or practiced "in season". I was actually told a few years ago that by not allowing baseball in the off season that the players would play other sports like football and volleyball. The answer is that they just played baseball in the fall for other schools.

quote:

Originally posted by VaDad:
When the AD fired the last head coach who had finished with the #10 team in the state, he stated he wanted to take the program in a different direction. He was successful. It is definitely headed in a different direction; DOWN. Part time coaches who are both incompetent and uncaring have destroyed a good program.

Your comments are spot on. The fact that the AD waited until the first week of school to tell the head coach that his contract was not being renewed for the year was a hint of his intent. Then he drug his heels and didn't hire a replacement until halfway through the winter sports season. Not taking up for the new coaching staff but they started off in a hole. Then they proceeded to dig an even deeper hole.

The bottom line is the school looks at varsity athletics as seasonal participation events rather than a competitive way to advance the school's image. They would attract more quality athletes if they made a commitment to stronger programs. But that's not what the school seems to want.

Never has been. They won't bend on scholarships for athletics like other private schools do.

quote:

Originally posted by DEEPTHREAT:
Never has been. They won't bend on scholarships for athletics like other private schools do.

True but you can attract quality athletes who want a rigorous academic program if you have competitive sports programs. Catholic High Schools have traditionally had a history of doing this.

How's James Stroud doing for Bishop Sullivan? I know he transferred from Kellam this season.

quote:

Originally posted by bball_lifer:
How's James Stroud doing for Bishop Sullivan? I know he transferred from Kellam this season.

He was one of the better hitters on the team. I saw him play a few times this year. Pretty good range in the OF and a good arm.

We could have used him tonight. He got ejected on thursday and couldn't play tonight. It gave him a chance to go run track today instead.

quote:

Originally posted by vavals:
We could have used him tonight. He got ejected on thursday and couldn't play tonight. It gave him a chance to go run track today instead.

Wonderful....a great way to wrap up the season.

Congratulations to Steven Swoope for being named to the VISSA Division I All State Second Team in Baseball. Steven had a great year; leading his team in offense and turning in solid performances on the mound and in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by birddog:
Congratulations to Steven Swoope for being named to the VISSA Division I All State Second Team in Baseball. Steven had a great year; leading his team in offense and turning in solid performances on the mound and in the field.

I assume the coaches and AD didn't have to be there to vote???

quote:

I assume the coaches and AD didn't have to be there to vote???

That's an interesting question. The process is a nomination submission by the coaching staff. I wonder how the coaches could have nominated him for the All State Team and yet he was not elected to the the All Conference Team.

He did make 2nd team all-conference. All-State is voted on by group of five coaches that make up the D2 state committee. One TCIS coach is on that committee and the player has to be nominated by his coach.

quote:

Originally posted by headinghome:
He did make 2nd team all-conference. All-State is voted on by group of five coaches that make up the D2 state committee. One TCIS coach is on that committee and the player has to be nominated by his coach.

Yes you are correct; both of the Swoopes made 2nd team, my mistake. I'm glad he had a advocate on the All State Committee.

I find this entire discussion extremely interesting. I have know idea how you can place blame on a coach in a program where he is completely unsupported and underminded by the schools policies and its AD. I applaude the coaching staff for making the strides they have with what I have seen as a pathetic excuse for a program and a group of athletes who were uncomitted players. Your comments about the AD at BSCH are absolutely spot on. He is the reason why the baseball program at Catholic is crippled. I commend the coach for handling this past season as well as he did. The Catholic baseball program is not adept to turning out athletes, they are focused on bickering between parents and players as well as; off field politics. If the coach had a committed group of players and parents as well as a program he could impliment then I believe he could produce....and FYI the coach of Catholic worked single-handedly for most of the year, managing the team alone with no assistant whatsoever and only the help of one parent during the last half of the year, so your insults are directly aimed at him. The only people who should be ashamed are the lack of participation and support from the school, the AD and the parents who sat around bickering while the program crumbled. In turn, I would not pass judegment by posting on a forum until you have proven yourself adept at dealing with a sorry excuse for a program such as Catholic's.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballwtchr:
I would not pass judegment by posting on a forum until you have proven yourself adept at dealing with a sorry excuse for a program such as Catholic's.

To be clear and transparent on this issue I did deal with the program for the four years my son played there; albeit under the old coaching staff. So there's no need for a lecture on the merits of walking a mile in your shoes.

Having said that I will agree with you that the root of the problem is the AD and the school's administration. In fairness to the new coach he probably did not have the ability to simply ignore the AD like the old coahes did. That's probably part of the reason for their departure.

I'm sure the coach had his challenges with players, parents and the lack of a committed school behind him. I indicated that in a prior post. My observation of him, while limited, did indicate he had some coaching ablity and a desire to make a go of it. I'm sure he was well intentioned but it does seem strange to me that he missed an opportunity to advocate for his players at the annual coaches meeting as it has been reported here. Perhaps he was unavailable, I get that. However, at the end of the day the coach is ultimately responsible even if the deck is stacked against him. Perhaps it's time for him to move on given the lack of support.

baseballwtchr....if you go back and review the comments you will see that the "blame" is placed with the AD and administration. Coach Hall was in a no win situation as was the previous coach. As long as the current AD "runs things" with the support of the powers to be they will never have the same success as the other private schools. As far as your comments about applauding "the coaching staff for making the strides they have with what I have seen as a pathetic excuse for a program and a group of athletes who were uncomitted players" I have to disagree. The true baseball players(6) at catholic came to that team in the spring prepared because they work with private coaches or workout with other programs in the off season. As the season progressed and practice got cancelled or lasted 3o minutes with no BP, fielding or bullpen work then everyone of those players skills started to drop off. That is directly tied to coaching. I will give that Coach Hall was mostly by himself but given that he had several dad's (including one who's son graduated last year) with coaching experience all he had to do was ask. And lastly, I was not trying to "pass judgement by posting on a forum". All I was doing was stating the fact that once again for the second year in a row the AD and or coach didn't show for the TCIS all conference meeting. Since the STATS on MaxPreps NEVER got entered correctly if at all then the other coaches really didn't have an idea how the players really did. And for the record the coach knew about the meeting and told the players that he didn't go because the process is all political anyway.

I have to say after viewing your response I was moved to give Coach Hall a call last night. Your statement: “for the second year in a row neither the coach or the AD having time to show up for the TCIS coaches meeting” is false. Coach Hall did attend the meeting last year, his first year coaching. Therefore your statement is incorrect. As far as this year Coach Hall was apparently called out of the state on business the evening before the meeting however he was able to submit his nominations/votes electronically. So to state that none of the Catholic players had an advocate working for them again appears to also be false. On the subject of Max-Preps, which I addressed with Coach Hall as well, he stated that he entered exactly what he has recorded in the book. Now the interesting part about max-preps (comprised of my own deductions)...I know year before last a father of a player (who graduated that year) kept the book religiously and in general appeared to be a great help to the coach; despite complaints from a specific parent about another parent keeping the book. This past season Coach Hall had no such help and in turn the book and stat coverage suffered greatly. Here is my question to you.....How in the world is a coach supposed to keep track of a game, his players, pitches (without an assistant), coach third and KEEP THE BOOK? I am sure the stats in Max preps are not completely accurate because the book apparently was not completely accurate but from what I have calculated, after researching (although I have not seen the physical book), they are not as far off as you claim. Nonetheless, when you have a montage of supporters/fans keeping the book or a student keeping the book because parents have complaints about each other and the game is not accurately recorded; then what could the coach possibly do? How is anyone supposed to know how the players did? Are you affiliated with the program? You sound as if you are pretty knowledgeable, maybe you should volunteer to keep the book if no one complains about it. I am glad that we agree on the fact that the school and AD have tied the hands of the baseball program. In reference to my statement you quoted in your reply let me clarify. "The pathetic program" statement was specifically aimed at what I feel is the lack of support from the school and AD for the baseball program, which could if supported, be easily successful. As I understand it Coach Hall and others have lobbied for fall ball, fund-raising, winter workout times, as well as a summer legion team for the boys and each and every time he has been turned down/shut-down. The "un-committed" player’s portion of the statement refers to the times when I personally witnessed the late arrival of players to their practices which began at the same time for the entire year and the coach’s inability to enact any type of reprimand thanks to his clearly limited roster and the seriously lacking support of the school administration/ AD. I witnessed a physical altercation before a game between two of the "true baseball players” you mentioned (at which point I believe they were benched by the coach but no repercussions from the AD were enacted, however had they been removed from the team Catholic would not have a team to field so what more can anyone do)…interesting. I even witnessed a pitcher yelling at an umpire... I need not go on. The topper though is when I witnessed a player ejected from a crucial game and benched for the next game but instead of serving out the punishment the coach handed down to the player for his bad behavior the player was allowed by the AD to go to a track meet instead. This is UNBELIEVABLE...and embarrassing for Catholic. Moreover in reference to the “uncommitted players” portion which again is a direct result of the schools lack of support many of the players have had to go elsewhere for off-season training and conditioning as you mentioned. This means that when Coach Hall has requested participation (I’ve seen the emails) in what little off-season training he is allowed to provide the kids, they are already committed to other programs, which in itself is a problem. I have to say the practices I witnessed last year were pretty routine and while they were short in instances it was not helped by the late arrival of the “true baseball players” you speak of. I watched Coach Hall carry out BP and Fielding, so I do not know where your information is coming from but it is either slanted or incorrect. I am aware that when practice was canceled due to weather (which was quite a bit this year and an annoyance for everyone) Coach Hall attempted to take indoor practices however he was often denied access because other sports had already staked a claim in the limited gym space. I do not know where these Dads with coaching experience were last year. I know I saw several standing around and talking during games while Coach Hall was on the field with no support but I never once heard anyone volunteer to help. I believe the one father who did volunteer towards the end of the season, Coach Hall took on immediately, who from what I understand was a JV parent at that. As far as your statement that Coach Hall said he did not go to an All-conference meeting because it was all political anyway that I am assured is completely false. Although he explained to me that the boys were upset about specific things pertaining to the all-conference voting and the issue of politics in baseball did arise in a conversation he assured me that he never made such a statement. That is quite an accusation though. I hope you do not fault me for going directly to the source as such implications/statements can have quite a negative impact on a program which is already working against some pretty heavy odds. I will say you appear to be passionate about the subject though I believe some of your accusations misguided. If you were to work with some of the concerned parents involved with the program and advocate for more support from the school maybe you could help enact some changes!

Obviously you have a connection to BSCHS and the baseball program as a player or parent. I make no secret about who I am (just look on my public profile) or my connection to the program or what I think about the AD and schools support for baseball. My statement about not having an advocate comes directly from other TCIS coaches that stated "for the second year in a row no one showed up for catholic". It was my understanding that he wasn't at the meeting first year and I will admit now that the post should have said "for the second year in a row BSCHS had no representation"! Let me start by clearing up a few things. I have no ax to grind with Coach Hall and I will lay 95% of the blame with the AD (who is the root of the problem) and Administration....but he needs to take responsibility for last season. He was offered help and didn't take advantage of it. If you have been around competitive sport then you should know that it is left to the coach to ask. Obviously he didn't think he needed help. At the start of the season he asked me to get the pullover he wanted (the AD vetoed his choice) and another dad paid for the jerseys that he wanted. He was told, by me personally, that the parents would run interference with the AD and Admin for anything he wanted just tell us. I know that myself and another well qualified dad coach offered to help and at the time he had Coach Martin and didn't need help. But that offer was there and he didn't take advantage of it. I built the home team bullpens 3 years ago and have no problem doing things for baseball at BSCHS. I was asked to keep the book one time (my wife actually did it) and told him I would keep it anytime he needed. He never asked again. You made a comment "despite complaints from a specific parent about another parent keeping the book"....I don't know of anyone who had an issue with a parent keeping the book. If that comment is directed at me then my issue had nothing to do with that parent keeping the book. The MaxPreps stats from last season are not correct and if you look at the MaxPrep site you will see that of the 21 games on there that the last 2 games played have NO stats and 9 of the games have partial stats that where all entered 4/27 and 4/28...after another parent complained. I am not sure what off season training you are referencing. Last summer my son got ONE email about a voluntary workouts and a request for game schedules so he could watch them play summer baseball. I replied with his schedule and that he would make any and all workouts that we would be in town for. Never heard another word! I will agree that when practice was cancelled for weather the coach did try to go in doors and got denied by the AD but from spring break on the practices lasted 30-45 minutes or got cancelled for no reason. The dad that you referenced as a score keeper last year would throw BP after the short practices to any of the players that stayed....unfortunately not enough stayed. As far as discipline is concerned the AD shouldn't be involved with how a coach handles the team. If there are on field or team issues that is up to the coach. We could go back an forth on this for days.....BSCHS will never have a baseball program until from the top down there are major changes!

vavals....I do have a connection with the BSCHS baseball program as well as several other competitive programs in the area, which is why when I came across some of your posts I felt compelled to respond. My response was simply an attempt to shed some light on your misguided and what I believe are incorrect accusations. Even in your most recent response in which you lay out a laundry list of information I find discrepancies. One instance...I distinctly remember coach Hall offering extra help to the boys whenever they needed it...including coming early or staying late if necessary...but I guess we were not given the same information. Second instance... Coach Hall apparently was present last year at the conference meeting; this information is verified by other TCIS coaches as well....so to state "Catholic did not have representation for two years" is still an incorrect statement. These are not the only sections of your reponse that I take issue with but I do not feel it necessary to counter your statements line for line. You are correct we could go back and forth for days on this subject; however that would be a waste of time since you are so clearly single-minded about BSCHS baseball as am I. I personally believe that working on a solution and supporting the coaching staff would be a much more productive venture for those affiliated with Catholic. In reference to your initial statement pertaining to not hiding who you are, I did check your profile and I do recall you in the stands and the type of support/comments I've seen/heard you offer... In fact I believe for the last two weeks of play I heard nothing but negativity and that you were sending your son to Atlantic Shores, if that’s the case then I do not understand your need to continue to focus on Catholic...other than to simply be malicious. If you do intend to continue with the program then why don't you dispense with the negativity and put some of that baseball knowledge to good use and help rather than hurt...I hear Coach Hall is still looking for assitant coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by birddog:

To be clear and transparent on this issue I did deal with the program for the four years my son played there; albeit under the old coaching staff. So there's no need for a lecture on the merits of walking a mile in your shoes.

Having said that I will agree with you that the root of the problem is the AD and the school's administration. In fairness to the new coach he probably did not have the ability to simply ignore the AD like the old coahes did. That's probably part of the reason for their departure.

I'm sure the coach had his challenges with players, parents and the lack of a committed school behind him. I indicated that in a prior post. My observation of him, while limited, did indicate he had some coaching ablity and a desire to make a go of it. I'm sure he was well intentioned but it does seem strange to me that he missed an opportunity to advocate for his players at the annual coaches meeting as it has been reported here. Perhaps he was unavailable, I get that. However, at the end of the day the coach is ultimately responsible even if the deck is stacked against him. Perhaps it's time for him to move on given the lack of support.

I agree with your comments however a "changing of the gaurd" per say did not work the first time nor do I believe it will work a second time. This leads me to my initial comments that the lack of school support and the obvious incompetence of the AD tying the hands of the coach(whoever that may be)is the problem. For clarification I was more concerned with clearing up the inaccuracies in vavals comments rather then remarking on your posts.

I'll leave the debate between you and vavals to each of you

You are quite correct; as long as the AD remains in place things will not change. I hear that there is hope on the horizon in that regard though.

I heard this evening that there is a coaching change at BSC. Those connected to the program can report the details.

Yes...that is true. Not sure if the big announcement has been made and I will leave that to him. The new coach IS the right person to bring back the program. Now if they can get a new AD!

New AD is in the works for the 2013-14 school year. From what I understand he's already teaching at the school and will bring a fresh approach to the position. Sometimes people just "stay at the dance too long." I suppose that can apply to us all at some time in our careers.

If the news about the new head coach is true then that's the best news yet. I doubt the school will make an announcement. Open communication is not a concept they embrace when there is a controversy.