We have had many pro scouts at every high school game so far this year. We have a player that is highly touted. But word is that they have taken noticed to my son as well. But we have never had contact with any except small talk at the game . They do know where he is going to school next year. But we have never filled any forms out for them. Can he still be selected or is there something formal we need to fill out to say he is available for the draft? Appreciate any input..thank you
Original Post
The answer is yes (you can be drafted without being contacted). But chances are he is not at that point where drafting him may make him give up college (real late pick).

His name does have to be submitted to MLB, eventually.

The draft is several weeks away, sit back and relax, see what plays out, most of all, enjoy it all.
eaglefan - Obviously, TPM is exactly right. One other thing to add is that in most cases, even for a late round pick, a scout that is thinking of drafting someone will have a brief chat with the player (or parents) to see what chance they have of signing the player.

Not always, but I think usually. That chat could come as late as just before the draft...even during the draft (if the scout has the player's phone number).
Don't want to be the bull in the china shop here but this is the reality:

If your son has not filled any questionares for any teams or the bureau, he is not going to get drafted. Generally at this point when the draft is 4 weeks away, your going to have an idea if there's a shot. He could though come on quick and then start filling out paperwork. If nothing is filled out, before the draft, they may just mark your son down as a "follow guy" in college.

As for the late round picks. A lot of times in the draft room after the 9th or 10th round some of the scouting supervisors or cross checkers will pick up a newspaper and put their feet on the table. At that point your area guys are fighting for players they want. So it is possible in this scenario: your son fills out a form or forms for a team and two an area scout really believes your son has got a chance to be a big leaguer someday.

I could go on and on. If you have any questions, PM me.
Just because they are drafted also doesn't mean they are going to make a real effort to sign them. If a team gets everyone they want to sign from the earlier rounds they often won't put any effort ($) into signing the remaining players. So they may or may not make much of an effort to sign a player drafted in let's say the 30th round.
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
Don't want to be the bull in the china shop here but this is the reality:

If your son has not filled any questionares for any teams or the bureau, he is not going to get drafted. Generally at this point when the draft is 4 weeks away, your going to have an idea if there's a shot. He could though come on quick and then start filling out paperwork. If nothing is filled out, before the draft, they may just mark your son down as a "follow guy" in college.

As for the late round picks. A lot of times in the draft room after the 9th or 10th round some of the scouting supervisors or cross checkers will pick up a newspaper and put their feet on the table. At that point your area guys are fighting for players they want. So it is possible in this scenario: your son fills out a form or forms for a team and two an area scout really believes your son has got a chance to be a big leaguer someday.

I could go on and on. If you have any questions, PM me.


The question asked was can you be drafted without being contacted, the answer is yes.


CADad is correct, if they get who they really wanted early to sign, the late guys won't even get anymore phone calls.
quote:
Originally posted by njbb:
Don't they have have to have your social security number to submit your name in the draft? so someone has to ask you for that information


I said yes because the team that drafted DK had no prior contact with him, and yes they most likely got all his info from the area scout that was submitted to MLB. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
Don't want to be the bull in the china shop here but this is the reality:

If your son has not filled any questionares for any teams or the bureau, he is not going to get drafted. Generally at this point when the draft is 4 weeks away, your going to have an idea if there's a shot. He could though come on quick and then start filling out paperwork. If nothing is filled out, before the draft, they may just mark your son down as a "follow guy" in college.

As for the late round picks. A lot of times in the draft room after the 9th or 10th round some of the scouting supervisors or cross checkers will pick up a newspaper and put their feet on the table. At that point your area guys are fighting for players they want. So it is possible in this scenario: your son fills out a form or forms for a team and two an area scout really believes your son has got a chance to be a big leaguer someday.

I could go on and on. If you have any questions, PM me.


The question asked was can you be drafted without being contacted, the answer is yes.


CADad is correct, if they get who they really wanted early to sign, the late guys won't even get anymore phone calls.


Filling out any paperwork for any organization or the MLB Scouting bureau is considered contact. If you are not contacted in any way, you will not get drafted.
quote:
Originally posted by njbb:
So you can go to a try out fill out a card and never hear from the team again until draft day


Don't know if that was a question but this is the general process:

-Fill out info cards for MLB Scouting Bureau or teams.
-Take psychological tests that teams will give you.
-MLB Bureau or teams will request medical records.
-Area scout will meet with family.
-Team drafts you on draft day which is always the first Tuesday in June.

The only time generally your going to get drafted by a team and hear no contact from them at all is if the MLB Scouting Bureau "turns you in" and requests medicals and other important information needed to make a decision. At that point any information that is turned in by the scouting bureau on a player will be sent to every Major League teams scouting department.
It really doesn't matter, IMO, if he is just getting some attention, I doubt whether it would be enough to mean much, to be drafted to give up school.

Most of the guys drafted in very late rounds in sons organization are all gone, even some from last year.

I am not sure that most realize how much more an advantage is being drafted early vs.late (except a prospect falls due to signability). HS players after a certain round should not give up their college eligibility. JMO.

The above is probably correct,after a certain round the GM lets the scouts fight out whose guys will get called. I would assume the top scouts get their man (men).
quote:
Originally posted by 20dad:
quote:
Just because they are drafted also doesn't mean they are going to make a real effort to sign them.


i believe if a team drafts you, they must offer you a contract. it may be a burger and a bus ticket but its an offer.


I think you're right. I know a player drafted as a DFE in the 49th round, who immediately took his signed contract to Pirates camp in Bradenton. He was cut in 10 minutes and sent home. His D1 scholly also went in the trash. They no longer draft DFE, but they still may not want all they draft. Its a numbers game. They don't know all the players to be cut, before they draft the next bunch.

In the case of the Pirates draftee, some contact from them and context of his draft might have been beneficial.
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
It really doesn't matter, IMO, if he is just getting some attention, I doubt whether it would be enough to mean much, to be drafted to give up school.

Most of the guys drafted in very late rounds in sons organization are all gone, even some from last year.

I am not sure that most realize how much more an advantage is being drafted early vs.late (except a prospect falls due to signability). HS players after a certain round should not give up their college eligibility. JMO.

The above is probably correct,after a certain round the GM lets the scouts fight out whose guys will get called. I would assume the top scouts get their man (men).


It's not probably correct, it is. The GM will be there generally for the 1st round, sandwich round(supplemental 1st round) and 2nd. Then will let the scouting supervisors and cross checkers handle the rest of the draft. The last 30 rounds of the draft are different for each organization. Some teams will intensely draft till the last pick and some will pull out a newspaper or ham sandwich in those rounds and let other cross checkers handle the picks.

Your statement is wrong about not signing after a certain period in the draft. There have been plenty of big leaguers that have come out of the last 30 rounds. I've seen players sign for $150k-250k in rounds 25-35. It just depends on which team drafts you and who is drafted in front of you. Teams don't draft players to get to AA, they draft you if they feel you can get to the big leagues in 3-5 years. It also depends on the families financial situation and what kind of school they have lined up for the following year. There can't be a definitive line between signing and not by certain rounds, it's all situational. You may not know this, but in order to give a player money that is over slot, the team must get permission from the front office. This does happen in late rounds and it happens every year.

The bottom line is that everything is situational.
GM,
Some of the posters in this thread that you apparently feel you need to educate have son's who are playing in AA and AAA or were high picks.
You are not telling most of them, or those who post in this thread, anything new.
Yes, I think most will remember Brett Wallace, as one example, and the Jays taking him near the 40th round, offering 1st round money to try and get him away from ASU. Same thing has happened with families who post on this site.
This can be a pretty knowledgeable group posting in this section.
Give them a chance so those who do not have the experience and are asking questions, especially from now until the 3 days of the draft next Month, can benefit from everyone's knowledge and experience, okay??
The only communication I had from my area scout was 10 min before I was selected. He called and simiply asked, "We're thinking of taking you with the next pick; will you sign?" The organizations that showed the most interest, either passed on me or planned on picking me up in later rounds.

I think signability has almost as much to do with draft position as tangibles and projectibilty (particularly in early rounds, 1-10); Too many recent examples to list.

In my experience, contrary to what I had heard while in school, every player on the roster was given ample opportunity to prove himself regardless of draft position or dollars invested. Guys that produced stuck around; guys who didn't were eventually released (Spoiler Alert: big bonus guys do get more opportunities to fail than the college free agent who signs for $1K). Then there are stories about guys, like Brad Ziegler (OAK), who was released the same day I was. 5 years later he throws 38+ consecutive scoreless innings to begin his rookie year.
Mr UticaBrewersGM,

Infielddad is correct, you do not have to educate us as to the process. BTW, you and I both know that many players are drafted because organizations have teams to fill, they are ALL not seen as future big leaguers.

I, this situation, I am NOT speaking about the guy who slips due to signability, I am talking about the player who gets drafted late to fill up the rounds, to fill up the team. And the parent who asked this question understands my distinction.

In 2007,my son roomed with a player for a short period who was drafted 30 something round out of HS and signed for 40K (plus college).

Best description was he often looked like a deer lost in the headlights, and by seasons end, he admitted he should have gone to school. It's not much fun playing in 90+ degrees with 100% humidity on the backfields of the complex,with most of your teammates not even speaking english, I think that most of us understand that is a possibility.
College is a better option for those type of drafted players and you know that.

The question asked was can you be drafted without being contacted. Again, the answer is yes, however the OP understands that some info has to be submitted for consideration.
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
Mr UticaBrewersGM,

Infielddad is correct, you do not have to educate us as to the process. BTW, you and I both know that many players are drafted because organizations have teams to fill, they are ALL not seen as future big leaguers.

I, this situation, I am NOT speaking about the guy who slips due to signability, I am talking about the player who gets drafted late to fill up the rounds, to fill up the team. And the parent who asked this question understands my distinction.

In 2007,my son roomed with a player for a short period who was drafted 30 something round out of HS and signed for 40K (plus college).

Best description was he often looked like a deer lost in the headlights, and by seasons end, he admitted he should have gone to school. It's not much fun playing in 90+ degrees with 100% humidity on the backfields of the complex,with most of your teammates not even speaking english, I think that most of us understand that is a possibility.
College is a better option for those type of drafted players and you know that.

The question asked was can you be drafted without being contacted. Again, the answer is yes, however the OP understands that some info has to be submitted for consideration.


Not everyone on this forum has experienced the game as a scout or scouting supervisor. I am simply educating people that ask the questions. It's tough to give opinions on computers because you can't feel out mood and emotion. I don't want to come off pompous or snide: were you ever a scout or college coach? Anyone in your family? Just trying to figure out where your insight and knowledge comes from.

As far as fill players go, many times coaches sons will get drafted, scouts sons will get drafted, and other "favor" draft picks will be chosen. A lot teams will sign free agents to fill out teams. So in a sense yes, you are right to some extent, but every organization is different.

Teams aren't going to draft a high school kid to fill out a team. College seniors usually fill out that role.

Whoever drafted your sons roomate didn't do a good job scouting that player. If he wasn't tough enough mentally to deal with the minor league life than he shouldn't have been drafted. Maybe more research on the player would have avoided that entire situation, allow him to mature in college and then draft.
GM,
I doubt any of us were scouts or scouting supervisors or worked in a front office.
So what?
There is a thread just above this one devoted to someone named bbscout. He spent many years on this site and was about as helpful and supportive as any poster. He never talked down to anyone and helped a ton of us, including me.
Look, our son was a "college senior" sign, one of those you would call a "filler" and organizational player. Some scouts did just that. At least one thought of him as a player and got him drafted.
bbscout talked about him in terms of Bill Mueller comparisons. bbscout and the one who drafted and signed him seemed to know what they were doing.
It just seems to me there are ways to communicate information and experience.
bbscout had ways of expressing himself which led Julie and others to want a complete section of this site named for him when he died.
It is great to learn about what happens in a draft room during those 3 days in June. Many posters new to this site, especially those hoping their son's number and name will be called, would love to hear the inside information.
There are ways to communicate what happens that can energize or be a turn off.
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
I don't want to come off pompous or snide: were you ever a scout or college coach? Anyone in your family? Just trying to figure out where your insight and knowledge comes from.


That's pompous and snide.
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
I don't want to come off pompous or snide: were you ever a scout or college coach? Anyone in your family? Just trying to figure out where your insight and knowledge comes from.


That's pompous and snide.


Speaking of bbscout, I remember having to turn to him for advice when son was in HS, a projected 6-7 rounder, should he sign or give up his 90% schollie, work with one of the best pitching coaches in the country at a top 25 D1 program, work towards his degree.

Guess what his answer was?

Funny how you came here wanting us to know all about you sir and getmynameout, yet you make no attempt to try to find out who we are (not just lowly stupid parents).

I appreciate the advice you have given but I agree you got an attitude that is not desirable.
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
GM,
I doubt any of us were scouts or scouting supervisors or worked in a front office.
So what?
There is a thread just above this one devoted to someone named bbscout. He spent many years on this site and was about as helpful and supportive as any poster. He never talked down to anyone and helped a ton of us, including me.
Look, our son was a "college senior" sign, one of those you would call a "filler" and organizational player. Some scouts did just that. At least one thought of him as a player and got him drafted.
bbscout talked about him in terms of Bill Mueller comparisons. bbscout and the one who drafted and signed him seemed to know what they were doing.
It just seems to me there are ways to communicate information and experience.
bbscout had ways of expressing himself which led Julie and others to want a complete section of this site named for him when he died.
It is great to learn about what happens in a draft room during those 3 days in June. Many posters new to this site, especially those hoping their son's number and name will be called, would love to hear the inside information.
There are ways to communicate what happens that can energize or be a turn off.


In no way shape or form are all senior signs "fillers". There have been many senior signs that have played in the big leagues, many. Mike Piazza was taken in the 60 something round as a favor pick and became one of the best offensive catchers to play the game.


I'm not talking or mean to talk anyone down at all. It's tough to voice an opinion through typing.

TPM, I was trying to figure out where your opinion came from being you seem to have a good general knowledge and I stated before hand to not take it to be pompous at all.
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:


Butch, is that you? A little arrogant for a summer collegiate team GM.


Wrong guy.


Sorry, I thought you were the Utica Brewers GM. I don't know how I could have gotten that impression.
GM,
just some background on others posting in this thread:
TPM's son was a high pick, very high, from Clemson;
njbb's sound was a 6th/7th rounder out of HS and is now at the AAA level;
20dad's son was a higher pick out of HS who had TJ;
Dad04's son was a terrific college pitcher...terrific Rajun Cajun.
justbaseball had one son who would have been a very high pick, except he was committed to Stanford..now in AA, with a younger son headed to the Pac10 in the Fall.
I know my hope is to provide a breadth of experience to those who post about the draft and what it means, and what comes after.
I really respect those who post in this thread. They truly have experience, from the player/parent side, are very knowledgeable, and truly want to help. We are not scouts. We don't evaluate players.
But, for parents, I expect those who post here have some pretty darn practical knowledge of what happens once the scouts put the rating on players.
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
Hopefully they all make league minimum money someday!


I think our perspective is to hope one makes it, while we try and provide thoughtful and helpful input about the odds, the journey, the "dream," and the future of life after baseball for the ones who don't.
Once again, late round players are usually chosen as fillers, the organization will try to develop their talent enough to be what is called an "organizational guy".

I think that most parents (I am talking HS now) understand the odds against their player ever reaching AA, let alone ML. What a lot of them do is allow their son to follow their dream, I think that is a great idea, but a large bonus often helps the player more comfortable as he goes through the system and you and I know the more the organization pays out for bonus the more time the player has to stick with it. I hav ealways said here and people know it, if it's about the money go to college, if it's not, go pro.
Now every once in awhile you will get an exception to those very late picks, a good example is Tony Sipp (reliever for Cleveland). Sipp, a position player in college with a dynamic arm, was converted to pitcher by Kevin O'Sullivan (BTW, do you know him), drafted very late, but signed for I think 135 (give or take). The reason being as he was relatively new as a pitcher, and most teams were afraid, he did prove the Indians to have made a good choice.

I do resent the comment about the scout not doing his homework about the player who was my son's roommate, it is my beleif that scouts don't draft players unless the player has indicated he will sign, this one did. As late as he was, I would almost doubt the organization didn't spend much time digging up much as they weren't going to pay him much anyway. Perhaps he told him he'd take anything to go play, you don't know that, but you do understand that at the end of the day complex ball IS NOT what most players expect pro ball to be.

You might be stuck in what was vs what is, things are a lot different these days, IMO. Give me one very good example of a very late HS draft pick (last 3-5 years) who signed and is currently playing in ML.
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by UticaBrewersGM:


Butch, is that you? A little arrogant for a summer collegiate team GM.


Wrong guy.


Sorry, I thought you were the Utica Brewers GM. I don't know how I could have gotten that impression.


Interesting I dont think he is the GM.

http://www.myhometownsports.net/article.php?id=2892
I guess maybe I've missed something somewhere. But I'm not a Scout nor has my son ever been drafted. I have learned quite a few from each and every person who has posted information here.

Personally I haven't felt that UticaBrewersGM has stated anything in a derogatory manner. I re-read the entire post just to make sure. IMO.

YGD
quote:
Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I guess maybe I've missed something somewhere. But I'm not a Scout nor has my son ever been drafted. I have learned quite a few from each and every person who has posted information here.

Personally I haven't felt that UticaBrewersGM has stated anything in a derogatory manner. I re-read the entire post just to make sure. IMO.

YGD


YGD,
That's just a matter of opinion, we all see things differently.
20dad,
You're right, I believe they do have to offer everyone who is drafted a contract but there is little or no effort once they've filled up their system. That is what a scout who wanted his organization to sign one of the local kids told me. He was able to get the kid drafted but was told they weren't interested in trying to sign him. He had a good scholarship to a good school so they didn't even try. I think they drafted him in the 30th round.
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
20dad,
You're right, I believe they do have to offer everyone who is drafted a contract but there is little or no effort once they've filled up their system. That is what a scout who wanted his organization to sign one of the local kids told me. He was able to get the kid drafted but was told they weren't interested in trying to sign him. He had a good scholarship to a good school so they didn't even try. I think they drafted him well into the 30th round.


They do have to send a contract within a certain period (14 days I remember), they do not have to offer a bonus dime with the contract either. I have some friends sons drafted late, they call them up and tell them what they have to give for bonus, if it is not acceptable, usually they won't call up again unless they are really desperate to sign players. And all teams are different, I know in sons organization most of the player sign, some teams they don't. In teh past couple of years they have signed so many players now they are getting released, I have never seen so many get released so early, and many very late picks.

Does it really matter what happens in the draft room on draft day? What really matters is that parents/players understand the draft and team priorities, the difficulty of the milb system (every year is essentially a try out for a spot on a full season team), and understand what the implications of losing your college opportunity entails.

As far as making league minimum, only a few really get that far.
We all know that the Jeters, Lincecums and Greinkes of the world need places to play getting ready for the big leagues. We all know those places are on teams with "roster filler" players, guys that are never going to fly on a plane to a ball game or hit for avg. above their weight. I've seen them as we all have.

The blanket statement that "teams (only) draft players they see in the big leauges in 3-5 years." is disingenuous, but sounds very good, if that's what you want to hear, sort of "scout speak" for the ignorant. However, if that was factual, there would be 10-12 draft rounds, not 50.

Then to use the disclaimer that only affiliated baseball execs understand anything, is bizarre. It ain't rocket surgery. The whole narrative sounds like someone who read an obscure book written by a crosschecker/scouting director and recounts the chapter entitled "Draft Day". I'm calling BS.

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